Mormon temple garments explained

[Fun-Dee]

When my son was in high school, he told me once that he had aced a history test because of South Park. I don't know why this question was on a history test in a public high school, but he said the question was, 'Who founded the Mormon church.' The first thing that came to mind was 'Joseph Smith was called a prophet, dum dum dum dum dum!'

[browncoatslytherin]

When my son was in high school, he told me once that he had aced a history test because of South Park. I don't know why this question was on a history test in a public high school, but he said the question was, 'Who founded the Mormon church.' The first thing that came to mind was 'Joseph Smith was called a prophet, dum dum dum dum dum!'

songs are seriously the best way to learn, and south park has some great ones :D

[CallmeChaCha]

Who would've thought the people who brought you songs like "shut your fucking face uncle fucker" (yes, I know the lyrics, don't judge me) would be teaching people about Mormonism. Like, actually teaching. Facts. :lol:

[Rebelwife]

Who would've thought the people who brought you songs like "shut your fucking face uncle fucker" (yes, I know the lyrics, don't judge me) would be teaching people about Mormonism. Like, actually teaching. Facts. :lol:

I fully believe that "Team America: World Police" should be a part of any curriculum that covers the war on terror. :lol:

[browncoatslytherin]

I fully believe that "Team America: World Police" should be a part of any curriculum that covers the war on terror. :lol:

i haven't seen those episodes, but i bet they are awesome :lol: the scientology one was pretty good, too.

[Rebelwife]

i haven't seen those episodes, but i bet they are awesome :lol: the scientology one was pretty good, too.

It's actually a movie they put out in 2004. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_America:_World_Police

Be warned, though, that it is extremely offensive. It is entirely done using puppets, and even so they had to cut some stuff to keep from getting an NC-17 rating.

[browncoatslytherin]

It's actually a movie they put out in 2004. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_America:_World_Police

Be warned, though, that it is extremely offensive. It is entirely done using puppets, and even so they had to cut some stuff to keep from getting an NC-17 rating.

ooo, i hadn't heard of this! i will have to look for it :D

[missegeno]

My basic knowledge of Mormon theology comes from.....South Park. Haven't seen The Book of Mormon yet, but did see the All about Mormons episode. The basic conclusion was that the story of the faith made almost no sense, but it did produce some unusually nice and sweet folks. [My only experience with live Mormons was a trip to Utah while I was pregnant. Utah's a great place to visit when you aren't supposed to be around booze or caffeine.]

Any Mormons or ex-Mormons here have any opinions on that episode? Or the general idea of "weird theology but nice people"?

Utah is a beautiful state. I lived in Provo for a while, and if it weren't for the Mormon majority, I would have gladly stayed and hiked those mountains for the rest of my life. I miss that geographical location so much, but the west coast is much better for me culturally.

Provo has a reputation for being the most Mormon part of Utah. I have spoken with some people there who consider SLC to be a bastion of sin, and I can understand that idea from their perspective (big city crime, bars, gay pride festival, etc.). These are generally "molly mormons" that have often not seen the south park episode (or any south park for that matter). In our discussions, they usually would stress the social benefits of mormonism, the wholesomeness, and that you must never ever ever associate them with the FLDS. These individuals would certainly have found the SP episode incredibly offensive, but also would never watch it. The less strict individuals I spoke to had often seen the south park episode, even if they weren't all the way "jack Mormon." Since it is pretty accurate, those individuals tended to give it some respect, while acknowledging that they don't like the representation much. Others surprised me with their enjoyment of it, and while it is not often discussed, it seems from my experience that the South Park explanation/conclusion is fairly widely held. One conversation I will always remember was with a woman who was very middle of the road Mormon. She quietly told me when we were away from others that she doesn't believe a word of it and views the bible as a book of stories, but that the stories provide a guide for her life that has worked for her and her family. She says that she would not be upset if her children grew up to leave the religion, but at least they would have grown up in a culture that values family time, responsibility, and wouldn't be hooked on substances like caffeine from an early age. Peers have a huge influence on teens, even greater than parents in many ways, and that fact was not lost on her. The Mormon culture is one that offers lots of activities for children and where you can still get that "it takes a village" approach, whereas a lot of the us has moved toward parents being entirely on their own. The premises may be false, but the lessons and community are real, and that's why she stays.

Personally, I think there are a lot of dangerous aspects of the church's teachings that I think would outweigh those values she stays for (and other ways to instill those values). I would not prefer to raise children in Utah (unless the mormons leave. I would be the first to start a new agnostic colony there!) and I think a lot of people, including this woman I spoke to, try to ignore the huge meth problem in those regions. But I was impressed by how many were willing to acknowledge the silliness inherent in mormonism.

That said, there are still many more who would never watch that episode and who would certainly be very offended by it. I didn't push the subject with them because my aim was to listen and learn, but maybe someone with a more antagonistic personality has an anecdote for that.

[missegeno]

okay, i found the passage from carolyn jessop's book "escape". it's put in amongst an explanation of a game that they were playing as children called "apocalypse" about the end times, which is reflective of their beliefs of what will happen at that time. it's a rather long game and there's a couple of offshoot explanations here and there, but here's the passage that talks specifically about the underwear:

keep in mind carolyn was raised as flds. (at this period of time she's describing, warren jeffs was not in power) i have no real reference to compare if this is reflective of the mainstream mormon theology or if it's unique to flds, but if anyone has any other information, feel free to chime in.

I'm not particularly well versed on how they two religions approach their respective underwear, but I know the FLDS and LDS each put great effort into differentiating themselves from the other and have considered the other to be infiltrated by Satan. The split happened over a century ago, and the perceived association between the two sects has riled up defenses on each side for a long time. I think the FLDS even consider mormons (aka. LDS folks) to be worse than athiests). So while the underwear may have similar roots for both, I would expect the two religions to have very different relationships with that underwear. If those differences are objectively notable or what they entail, I am not entirely sure.

[Mum2theRoyalFlush]

(Trimmed)

I'm not particularly well versed on how they two religions approach their respective underwear, but I know the FLDS and LDS each put great effort into differentiating themselves from the other and have considered the other to be infiltrated by Satan. The split happened over a century ago, and the perceived association between the two sects has riled up defenses on each side for a long time. I think the FLDS even consider mormons (aka. LDS folks) to be worse than athiests). So while the underwear may have similar roots for both, I would expect the two religions to have very different relationships with that underwear. If those differences are objectively notable or what they entail, I am not entirely sure.

OK, I am LDS. Here's what I can tell you.

1. The regular LDS do not think the FLDS were infiltrated by Satan. However, the FLDS are sure that's true about mainstream Mormonism. :o And, the regular LDS are pretty sure that the FLDS are far too old fashioned, etc.

2. The division occurred in 1892 when Utah was trying to become a state and would not be allowed to join (they had petitioned since 1850) unless polygamy stopped.

3. The FLDS believe that the regular LDS are sinners because they view the stopping of polygamy as an act of faithlessness, even though one of the basic tenants of Mormonism is to "honor and sustain" the laws of the land.

4. Our underwear is VASTLY different. The FLDS garment is long-sleeved and long-legged. Think of long johns. Mainstream LDS garments are more modest than a tank top (they have a tiny capped sleeve) and come to above the knee. 2 pieces. (Not sure of the other--they could still be 1 piece, like a union suit.) However, what really makes the garment the same is that the markings on them (they look like little stitches) all sit in the same place--one to help remember to be morally straight, one to remember to treat your body well, and one near the knee to remind the wearer to pray.

Hope that insight is what you were looking for!

[missegeno]

Thanks for that insight and info Mum2theRoyalFlush!

[shedemei]

4. Our underwear is VASTLY different. The FLDS garment is long-sleeved and long-legged. Think of long johns. Mainstream LDS garments are more modest than a tank top (they have a tiny capped sleeve) and come to above the knee. 2 pieces. (Not sure of the other--they could still be 1 piece, like a union suit.) However, what really makes the garment the same is that the markings on them (they look like little stitches) all sit in the same place--one to help remember to be morally straight, one to remember to treat your body well, and one near the knee to remind the wearer to pray.

The original LDS garments were exactly the same as the FLDS, and were for a long time. They have been changed over time, with the legs and arms becoming shorter, to what they are now.

[felinefundie]

Another Mormon here to chime in to the general discussion (not necessarily related to garments in particular).

Just like with most religions, there are various levels of "devoutness" within the church. Some take various commandments much more seriously than others. For example, I am currently on this site, snarking along happily about christianity and other types of fundamentalism and *gasp* criticizing my own religion. I'm pretty liberal though, so I'm not really an example of your average Molly Mormon.

There are lots of discrepancies and whitewashing in church history, yes. These are becoming more apparent with the prevalence of the internet and the easy access to research materials that it provides. The CES Letter is a wonderful compilation of various issues found within church doctrine.

I do think a lot of what keeps the church together is the very strong community it provides. For example, I have pretty severe social anxiety and sometimes it's all I can do just to leave my house to go to my classes each day. Church is the one place that I feel welcome and comfortable, and that is so important to me. It's basically my one positive social experience for the entire week.

Another thing is the feeling of the Spirit. When we are baptized, we follow that up by getting confirmed by priesthood leaders. This confirmation allows us to carry with us the presence of the holy ghost at all times as a constant companion. The Spirit usually manifests itself in positive feelings or urges toward something (or a "burning in the bosom"). That feeling could very well be just a natural reaction to experiences, but any one who has ever experienced feelings like that cannot deny that they are powerful. Many LDS folk retain their testimony through feeling the Spirit's presence in their life.

Temple ceremonies: yes. They can be a lot to take in at first. The endowment ceremony (when you get your Gs) is typically either a testimony-builder like no other, or it's what leads people out of the church. I equate it sightly to Mormon ayawaska. It's intense and it truly opens your mind (so to speak).

Is the LDS church a cult? Probably just as much as most other religions. It is definitely more all-encompassing than some christian denominations. Is the church christian? Yes. Jesus is way more revered than Joseph Smith (except for the hymn Praise to the Man, which is about Joseph Smith and it is like constantly stuck in my head for some reason. It's a real ear worm).

Can the church be super harmful to people? Absolutely, just like any religion can be. There are over 17,000 members on the exMormon subreddit that can testify to the harm the church can cause.

People of color are accepted with wholeheartedness and the same rights as any other member. Today. This has only been a recent thing. Until the 1970's, black men could not hold the priesthood, which is necessary to carry out Heavenly Father's work on earth. This is a huge black mark on the church's history. And one I have the largest issue with. However, the LDS faith believes in living prophets, so based on that, our doctrine can be modified as prophets receive revelation. Sounds like a pretty convenient excuse, huh?

Garments: Basically just kinda hot and not very breathable. They can ride up Depending on the materials. Your Gs aren't supposed to be seen through your clothes, hence the pretty conservative modesty standards LDS people have, but my dear boyfriend has crew-neck Gs that peek through every t-shirt he owns. Slacker. :wink-kitty:

Most women do wear their bra over their garments, as they are supposed to touch your skin. But it's a choice and more people in my generation probably wear their bra under their Gs.

It's not a stupid and ridiculous as people make it out to be. Yes, I've seen the South Park episode (and read every exMormon Reddit thread and exMormon book, etc), and it is predominately fact. However, it is portraying the facts in a satirical and joking manner, and therefore presenting a very one-dimensional view.

Sorry this post is long, but someone might get something out of it. Hopefully.

*returns to relative lurkdom*

[Monkeebrainz]

I'm disappointed. I thought they would have more ela or ate markings.