Mormon temple garments explained

[SaturnianCatalina]

^I noticed that little screwup in the video, too. It would have been better if they had worded it something like "human devotion to religious tradition."

[DGayle]

The Mormon Church and I use that term lightly is a Cult not a church. If you read an unbiased biography of its Founder Joseph Smith you will see why I call it a cult. Smith was a Charlatan and Thief who conned people into doing his bidding under the guise of calling himself a God who was Called BY God from the Planet Kolub to rule here on earth. Joe Smith is right up there with Tommy Cruise and the Scientologists.

I agree. Smith was killed by a pissed off mob of his own followers. Even in the day, people had a problem with it. Today, he's supposed to be viewed as almost a god.

[DarkAnts]

They are suppose to cut the symbols off before destroying them. The symbols must be burned. Before they came in military colors, men in service would just cut the symbols off them and sew them onto their regulation underware.

[bionicmlle]

The video was interesting and I, too, think it was a good move. I did have a bit of an inner :gasp: upon seeing the garments, and I am not LDS. I am guessing there are a LOT of Mormons who are uneasy about that video. Although I have had my share of laughs about the magic underwear, I do see that the practice does deserve some respect for the TBMormons.

ETA: I don't think I could see the embroidered designs (which, I think, are the weirdest parts....) in the video....

[RosyDaisy]

Not to be disrespectful to Mormons, but the male garments look like v-neck t-shirts an boxer briefs. My fiancée sleeps in those kind of shirts and underwear.

[WonderingInWA]

My dad used to claim the v-neck tshirts were sort of like a secret handshake in the white-collar working world. That they could be seen showing through a white dress shirt so upon meeting a man in a professional setting for the first time, you knew if he was part of the "club" or not. I always thought that was interesting. They do look like a v-neck tshirt, but the curve of the neck is slightly different than your typical Hanes version.

[acheronbeach]

The cut, style, symbols, and fastenings were all given by Joseph Smith in revelation, and bear little resemblance to the garments today. The original pattern for them was so sacred that women had to wear the same garments as men (and cut for men) until the 1960's from what I gather.

[FaustianSlip]

I think it's a well-made video, but there's a major inconsistency in their argument that I think goes to the heart of why the Mormon garments come in for so much criticism and ridicule. Anyone can go into a Judaica store and buy a yarmulke or tzitzit or a tallit. You can go online to the Eichler's website and order them right now- heck, you can order yourself a pair of tefillin while you're at it. Likewise, if you want to purchase a hijab or even priestly vestments, you can, whether you're Christian or not (meet all of your vestment needs here!).

That is not the case with Mormon garments. Outsiders can't purchase them- they can't even view them on the LDS website, where you have to log in with your temple recommend number or something to access the page where they're sold. That's what freaks people out and makes them think the whole thing is a bit ridiculous, IMHO, less than the fact that at the end of the day, we're talking about special underwear. It's like the whole thing with the Mormon temples- well, yes, they are "just another house of worship," but anyone can enter a synagogue or a mosque or an Episcopal church. If your child converts to Judaism and gets married in a synagogue, you can still attend their wedding, whether you're Jewish or not. Again, that's not the case in the Mormon church.

The argument is that these things are "sacred," so they're not for public consumption, but all religions have sacred rituals and clothing, and I know of none, aside from maybe Scientology, that hide those sacred things behind closed doors, deliberately kept far away from public view- or even the view of coreligionists who haven't reached a certain level. That's what makes both the temple ceremony and the garments a magnet for mockery and criticism (which, I assume, is the reason for releasing this video- the church can't keep this stuff hidden any more, not with the internet around, so they have no choice but to embrace it). Honestly, I think the church really missed the curve on this one- they should have bitten the bullet and done this years ago. That said, it was really weird to be watching a YouTube video and seeing the garments and stuff.

[Joan of Snarc]

I think it's a well-made video, but there's a major inconsistency in their argument that I think goes to the heart of why the Mormon garments come in for so much criticism and ridicule. Anyone can go into a Judaica store and buy a yarmulke or tzitzit or a tallit. You can go online to the Eichler's website and order them right now- heck, you can order yourself a pair of tefillin while you're at it. Likewise, if you want to purchase a hijab or even priestly vestments, you can, whether you're Christian or not (meet all of your vestment needs here!).

That is not the case with Mormon garments. Outsiders can't purchase them- they can't even view them on the LDS website, where you have to log in with your temple recommend number or something to access the page where they're sold. That's what freaks people out and makes them think the whole thing is a bit ridiculous, IMHO, less than the fact that at the end of the day, we're talking about special underwear. It's like the whole thing with the Mormon temples- well, yes, they are "just another house of worship," but anyone can enter a synagogue or a mosque or an Episcopal church. If your child converts to Judaism and gets married in a synagogue, you can still attend their wedding, whether you're Jewish or not. Again, that's not the case in the Mormon church.

The argument is that these things are "sacred," so they're not for public consumption, but all religions have sacred rituals and clothing, and I know of none, aside from maybe Scientology, that hide those sacred things behind closed doors, deliberately kept far away from public view- or even the view of coreligionists who haven't reached a certain level. That's what makes both the temple ceremony and the garments a magnet for mockery and criticism (which, I assume, is the reason for releasing this video- the church can't keep this stuff hidden any more, not with the internet around, so they have no choice but to embrace it). Honestly, I think the church really missed the curve on this one- they should have bitten the bullet and done this years ago. That said, it was really weird to be watching a YouTube video and seeing the garments and stuff.

Plus, you know, they're underwear. UGLY underwear.

:wtf:

[FaustianSlip]

That doesn't help, but a lot of Orthodox Jewish guys wear their tzitzit as underwear (i.e. as an undershirt), and it doesn't tend to come up nearly as much. Sikhs wear special underwear, as well, but how often do you hear about that? Almost never, and you can hop online and buy those, too, if you're of a mind to.

[Joan of Snarc]

In the United States, you don't hear much about the Sikh religion in general. I bet most Americans have no idea what it's about. They probably don't even realize it's separate from Hinduism.

[docmom]

In the United States, you don't hear much about the Sikh religion in general. I bet most Americans have no idea what it's about. They probably don't even realize it's separate from Hinduism.

They apparently don't know it's separate from Islam

[FaustianSlip]

In the United States, you don't hear much about the Sikh religion in general.

That's not an argument you can make about Judaism, though. Not even Orthodox Judaism, given the percentage of images chosen to represent Jews generally in news stories and the like that feature Orthodox Jews.

[SaturnianCatalina]

They apparently don't know it's separate from Islam

I have a friend who seemed really surprised/impressed that I knew he was a Sikh. This came up because when I first met him, he had bought a knitted hat from me and was concerned about it fitting over his turban--when I saw the turban and his beard, I asked him if he was a Sikh, and he said a lot of people assume he is Hindu or Muslim and don't bother to find out otherwise.

[2xx1xy1JD]

They apparently don't know it's separate from Islam

I was really surprised when I heard of some of the attacks on Sikhs due to mistaken identity, and heard American news stations actually explaining what Sikhs are to the audience. Then, I realized that Canada has more Sikhs than the U.S. even though the U.S. has a far larger population. In British Columbia and Ontario (esp. the suburbs of Toronto), they are pretty mainstream, with a relatively high degree of involvement in politics. Even if the average non-Sikh here doesn't know all the details of the religion, they are pretty clear that it's distinct from Hinduism or Islam.

[Phoenix]

I was also told stories about the underwear offering physical protection by my Mormon in-laws. A few years ago I was asked to take an older Mormon lady clothes shopping with her daughter. I was the transportation. We went to a store, the mother went into a changing room and her daughter passed her assorted items to try on, including bras. I innocently asked if she needed measuring or any help with hooks, zippers etc.. To me this was no different than helping any other elderly relative with mobility issues dress. At worst a women's locker room situation.

It was firmly explained to me that I was not welcome in the dressing room because the elderly mother was wearing her undergarments and as a gasp, nominal Catholic I was not allowed to see them. What blew me away was this lady had spent over 30 years wearing her bras OVER her sacred garments. That had to be super uncomfortable. When I was foolish enough to express this thought I was told it was suprisingly comfortable. (Doubt it!)

This got even stranger when I realized the elderly Mormon lady had not been attending services, tithing or generally having anything to do with her local faith community FOR YEARS. Yet she still wore the sacred garments, protected them from the profane eyes of outsiders and tried to fit bras over them. :cray-cray:

Supposedly a Mormon planet exists. I had a hard time keeping a straight face discussing that idea.

I still don't understand how the Mormon church attacts and keeps people of color as members. Their core belief about the inferiority of those "marked" by darker skin tones is horrible and belongs in a different century than the one we are living in now. :pull-hair:

[Firiel]

I still don't understand how the Mormon church attacts and keeps people of color as members. Their core belief about the inferiority of those "marked" by darker skin tones is horrible and belongs in a different century than the one we are living in now. :pull-hair:

I think it's the community, honestly. Not only is there a strong social support group if you are a part of the church, there is a strong physical support group as well. If you are a member of the church in good standing, the church will help you out if you run into hard times. There are jobs and resources within the LDS church that you have access to that you wouldn't have as an outsider. My roommate was actually considering distancing herself from the church. She is definitely not your typical Mormon woman... she doesn't have the peppy housewife personality and as a self-sufficient and single mid-twenties woman, there wasn't much there for her in regards to the support system. She didn't end up doing that because she started seeing a nice Mormon guy (who really is a great person, btw).

[2xx1xy1JD]

My basic knowledge of Mormon theology comes from.....South Park. Haven't seen The Book of Mormon yet, but did see the All about Mormons episode. The basic conclusion was that the story of the faith made almost no sense, but it did produce some unusually nice and sweet folks. [My only experience with live Mormons was a trip to Utah while I was pregnant. Utah's a great place to visit when you aren't supposed to be around booze or caffeine.]

Any Mormons or ex-Mormons here have any opinions on that episode? Or the general idea of "weird theology but nice people"?

[FaustianSlip]

The theology shown in the South Park episode is pretty dead-on, based on what I've read of Mormonism and its origins. Like, if you watch the PBS documentary The Mormons and follow that up with South Park, aside from some jokes and snark, there's really not much in there that isn't in the church's official story.

My impression of Mormonism has always been that the church goes to great lengths to present itself to the public as just another denomination of Christianity, nothing to see here, including when they try to win converts. It isn't until you're baptized and already inculcated socially that you really start to hear about some of the weirder stuff (Kolob, the garments, the temple ceremony, et cetera).

[WonderingInWA]

The father of a friend of mine was a state government employee of some prominence and he ended up getting in trouble with the law by being caught as the Peeping Tom in his neighborhood (this was in a small town in a conservative state in the 70s). It was big news, it hit the front page of the local newspaper, he resigned from his job, blah, blah, blah. And then he got a letter from the Mormon church (not sure if it was local or not) telling him he'd been "excommunicated". Funny thing is, he was never EVER a Mormon. Never even close. So, I'm not sure why the Mormon church would take it upon themselves to excommunicate anyone who was never a member? Anyone have an answer to that one?

[Firiel]

The father of a friend of mine was a state government employee of some prominence and he ended up getting in trouble with the law by being caught as the Peeping Tom in the neighborhood (this was in a small town the 70s). It was big news, it hit the front page of the newspaper, he resigned from his job, blah, blah, blah. And then he got a letter from the Mormon church (not sure if it was local or not) telling him he'd been "excommunicated". Funny thing is, he was never EVER a Mormon. Never even close. So, I'm not sure why the Mormon church would take it upon themselves to excommunicate anyone who was never a member? Anyone have an answer to that one?

Hmm... was this in a heavily LDS area? My only guess is that maybe there was an inactive member with his name and there was confusion about the identity. AFAIK, ex-communicating non-members is not standard practice.

Are you sure he wasn't raised jack-Mormon by a grandparent or something? If he was, he could have been baptized as a kid and technically been a member.

[WonderingInWA]

Hmm... was this in a heavily LDS area? My only guess is that maybe there was an inactive member with his name and there was confusion about the identity. AFAIK, ex-communicating non-members is not standard practice.

He has a very unique name so it is unlikely there was any confusion of identity. But yes, a small town in Idaho (population about 125,000 at the time).

[Firiel]

He has a very unique name so it is unlikely there was any confusion of identity. But yes, a small town in Idaho (population about 125,000 at the time).

Oh, I'm familiar with the state and I'm pretty sure I know what town you are talking about. I could see the Church sending out a letter like that as an official condemnation of his act/to make a statement. Like I said, I don't think it's standard practice, but it seems well within the realm of possibility under the circumstances.

[nomoxian]

Are you sure he wasn't raised jack-Mormon by a grandparent or something? If he was, he could have been baptized as a kid and technically been a member.

That's my best guess.

I haven't been to church in years but I'm still technically a Mormon. The main reason I haven't resigned is my father works in the church, and resigning means you need to communicate with them and tell them where you live.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

My basic knowledge of Mormon theology comes from.....South Park. Haven't seen The Book of Mormon yet, but did see the All about Mormons episode. The basic conclusion was that the story of the faith made almost no sense, but it did produce some unusually nice and sweet folks. [My only experience with live Mormons was a trip to Utah while I was pregnant. Utah's a great place to visit when you aren't supposed to be around booze or caffeine.]

Any Mormons or ex-Mormons here have any opinions on that episode? Or the general idea of "weird theology but nice people"?

That was on last night! And I was DYING. That show is hilarious enough, but throw in some Mormons? THE BEST.