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If a pastor accepts his gay children, he hates them


dairyfreelife

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:roll:

reaganramm.com/2014/10/this-pastor-hates-his-children.html

This father isn’t loving his children because he doesn’t want what is best for them. In fact, it sounds like he’s hoping that they are gay. He even says that they already are gay,

“If my kids are going to be gay, well they pretty much already are.â€

He's not a very bright young man, is he? :evil-eye:

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I thought this was going to be a Pisser post.

So the way to show your gay kid love is to have them, and if you love them, you really hate them. In other words, loving a gay kid isn't possible. You have to hate them.

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Reagan Ramm sounds like a porn name.

And a gay one at that.

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so being gay is the equivalent of being a drug addict or a selfish bully, is it? reaaaaalllly...

what a bunch of bullshit.

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I've never understood fundie and/or bigoted asshole logic about having LGBT children or relatives. I am not a parent, but I do have nieces and nephews and if any of them were gay or lesbian or transgender, it wouldn't bother me as long as they were honest about it.

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Let's put it this way: Either you have gay children you accept (that is, if they have been genetically/in the womb predetermined to be that way), or you likely won't have that child or children at all.

This is either because:

-The kid commits suicide or dies of a drug overdose or self-harm or violence because they ran off or were so affected by your hate that they thought it was better to die; or

-The child completely cuts you out of their life.

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Let's put it this way: Either you have gay children you accept (that is, if they have been genetically/in the womb predetermined to be that way), or you likely won't have that child or children at all.

This is either because:

-The kid commits suicide or dies of a drug overdose or self-harm or violence because they ran off or were so affected by your hate that they thought it was better to die; or

-The child completely cuts you out of their life.

some are willing to do this, though, even preemptively shunning them, like my parents did after my brother came out.

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Let's put it this way: Either you have gay children you accept (that is, if they have been genetically/in the womb predetermined to be that way), or you likely won't have that child or children at all.

This is either because:

-The kid commits suicide or dies of a drug overdose or self-harm or violence because they ran off or were so affected by your hate that they thought it was better to die; or

-The child completely cuts you out of their life.

It's not always that black and white. In my community, if someone came out as gay, they wouldn't be shunned, but their gayness would not be accepted. They'd basically be treated normally (allowed to see younger siblings for sure) except when they'd talk about being gay, or talk about marrying, or doing something with their same sex boyfriend/girlfriend, and then they'd be treated like a small child who is only doing something because they want to annoy you. People wouldn't go to their wedding because it "wouldn't be a real wedding, stop fooling around and date people of the opposite sex!".

If I had a child who came out as gay, secretly I would be disappointed/worried because they wouldn't have a normal life, but I wouldn't want them to know that so I'd tell them that I always wanted a gay child.

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Don't know- my life is normal enough! I'm a married student with an apartment, spouse, and cat. I want to have a good career, love, and kids, just like any young person.

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It's not always that black and white. In my community, if someone came out as gay, they wouldn't be shunned, but their gayness would not be accepted. They'd basically be treated normally (allowed to see younger siblings for sure) except when they'd talk about being gay, or talk about marrying, or doing something with their same sex boyfriend/girlfriend, and then they'd be treated like a small child who is only doing something because they want to annoy you. People wouldn't go to their wedding because it "wouldn't be a real wedding, stop fooling around and date people of the opposite sex!".

If I had a child who came out as gay, secretly I would be disappointed/worried because they wouldn't have a normal life, but I wouldn't want them to know that so I'd tell them that I always wanted a gay child.

I'm sure you mean well, but as a gay person who has lived a lot of this, I had to say two things in response. First, I had family members who tried treating me "normally" without accepting my "gayness", and it still felt a hell of a lot like a shunning. It's not like asking someone not to talk about their model train hobby around you, it's forcing an LGBTQ person to keep living in the closet and assume a false identity for the sake of their family's comfort level. You try being around your family without ever mentioning your SO, the possibility of getting married someday, any actual wedding planning, *anything* you do with your SO (which isn't even just dating- could also be moving households, getting new jobs, or in my family's case, even mentioning her name), and then come back and tell me if that feels "normal" to you. It became very clear to me when my family pulled that shtick that they didn't love *me* and possibly never had; they loved their preconceived idea of what I would become, and when I didn't turn out the way they hoped, the real me was shunned in favor of allowing them to hang onto their mirage. It's an incredibly painful and incredibly stressful thing to be on the receiving end of, and frankly it was easier for me to deal with the ones who flat out shunned me entirely than it was to deal with that. The full shunning happens all at once and you can grieve once and be done with it. The type you're talking about is like a daily death and the grieving process never ends. And in the end, the effect was still that they wound up shut out of my life, all while they claimed it was my fault cause they totally loved me despite everything and tried "so hard!!" to "reach out" to me and have a relationship anyway. But you can't have a relationship that way, it's literally impossible. And please, let's not even pretend that refusing to go to someone's wedding because it's a "fake marriage" is anything but what it is: outright shunning. That's not normal, no matter how you stretch the word. My entire family boycotted my wedding for exactly that reason, and it was a shunning. Full stop. And it fucking hurt. Your wedding day is supposed to be happy, and in a lot of ways it was, but for the rest of my life whenever I look back it will also always be tinged with sadness and pain.

And second, I'm sure you mean well worrying that your child won't have a normal life if they turn out to be LGBTQ, but as long as you are accepting you really don't have to worry about that any more. It's not the 1950's, there are plenty of places in the country (assuming you are in the US?) where no one bats an eye at gay couples anymore, and marriage rights are finally beginning to gain real ground even in conservative states. Gay couples can and do have kids and raise them together and do everything else "traditional" couples do. I'm gay and married and we both work and we are planning a family and believe me, after growing up fundie, this is the most normal my life has ever been. Lol.

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Not to try to speak for It'sfunToRun too much, but I took her post to be addressing her specific cultural community, and how people are treated - not the world in general and how she would treat someone. I am pretty sure, from her posts, that her primary community is in Israel and is primarily Orthodox or Conservative Jewish. Could be wrong. I would think that even among that specific a population you're going to get some towns/ groups that are more or less accepting and tolerant than others. Maybe ranging from outright shunning and disown meant to complete open-armed acceptance.

Where I live, and in my social circle, I don't think there would be a need to be super concerned about my child having a normal life if they were homosexual. But honestly, even living in the freaking San Francisco Bay Area, in the leftiest of left towns -- I still would have a little bit of fear for bullying, or safety, especially for a son. Even though there are tons of laws protecting him, and there are many openly gay people everywhere that he would interact with as teachers, physicians, storekeepers, relatives, politicians. Even though there are awareness activities and workshops at every school. I'd be lying if I didn't say I would have some increased fear that some asshole would treat him badly or hurt him.

I can't imagine how exponentially more pronounced that concern would be if I lived in the Deep South , or in a less accepting environment in general.

FWIW - I would secretly still be a little worried/ saddened about ANYTHING that makes their life potentially more dangerous or difficult - because I can't control the larger world- that doesn't mean I'd treat them any differently or love them any less.

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Right, I understood that the "not shunned but not accepted" part wasn't referring to her beliefs specifically, but to the way the community she lives in generally handles things. I think I just didn't make that clear enough in my response, sorry.

To clarify, when I was describing what it's like to be on the receiving end of that, I wasn't trying to direct it towards you specifically, It'sFuntoRun. Just trying to share some perspective that the way the community you live in handles things isn't always any better than an outright shunning. After I came out I got a lot of "well, at least so-and-so didn't shun you" from well-meaning people and I never knew whether to laugh or cry. I get the impression that it's not a perspective most people consider unless they've lived it, because shunning someone does sound like the worst thing anyone could possibly do. But from my experience, and that of many of my LGBTQ friends, there are reactions that people don't consider to be as bad as shunning that actually hurt just as much and do just as much damage to relationships.

And I can understand general worry that the world will be a harder place for a child, although I don't have children of my own yet. I think I just reacted a bit strongly to the usage of the word normal because I had so many family members/former church friends bemoaning that I was choosing to be "abnormal" and "unnatural", and one otherwise well-meaning aunt upset that I wouldn't get to live a "normal" life or have kids. Apologies, It'sFuntoRun if I misunderstood your meaning there!

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  • 2 years later...
Quote

and damn, he thinks he's the clever one, doesn't he?

http://reaganramm.com/gays-do-have-a-right-to-get-married/

  Quote

Gays actually do have the right to get married in America. Marriage is the union of one man and one woman for life. Sure, homosexuals aren’t able to marry someone of the same sex, but neither am I. No one is. We are all treated equally under the law. Therefore, we are all equal already.

So he's saying that since he would dearly love to marry the person of the same sex who is the love of his life but will marry a clueless female instead, so there is no injustice if any other gay person can't marry their loved one?

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