The Duggar "modesty" standards are useless

[jchelleslastegg]

don't they realize people can still think perverted thoughts about them even if they don't "show off" their bodies....it's kinda useless imo to even bother to be "modest " because you can't control other people's minds on how they think about you and don't they realize that anyway?

[Hooligan]

I was amused with J'shelles "no shoe modesty" stance. Guess she has never heard of shoe and foot fetishes!

Where they fail is that rather than this obsession with coverage of their bodies, they should be focused on modesty of actions.

[jchelleslastegg]

I was amused with J'shelles "no shoe modesty" stance. Guess she has never heard of shoe and foot fetishes!

Where they fail is that rather than this obsession with coverage of their bodies, they should be focused on modesty of actions.

Ikr! exactly!

[CorruptionInc.]

I was amused with J'shelles "no shoe modesty" stance. Guess she has never heard of shoe and foot fetishes!

Where they fail is that rather than this obsession with coverage of their bodies, they should be focused on modesty of actions.

I don't know what goes on in the heads of Mullet and Boob but I'm pretty sure it's air, sex and the rest they just make up as they go along.

[browncoatslytherin]

I don't know what goes on in the heads of Mullet and Boob but I'm pretty sure it's air, sex and the rest they just make up as they go along.

don't forget gothard and god.

[CorruptionInc.]

don't forget gothard and god.

Yep, that is true too.

[doggie]

Just look at where burka's are required. Mens imaginations run wild and the age of the woman does not even stop it. when you hide something you make it more tempting and more open to the imagination. But logic and the duggers are not compatible. according to the duggers woman that wear burka's should never be raped.

[BrownieMomma]

don't they realize people can still think perverted thoughts about them even if they don't "show off" their bodies....it's kinda useless imo to even bother to be "modest " because you can't control other people's minds on how they think about you and don't they realize that anyway?

Yet even in burqa can that happen.

You can't control what other people think which is not what standards of dress are about.

What you wear tells the world what you want them to think about you. If you wear short skirts and tiny tops, chances are you want the world to think you are sexy. You want your legs looked at and your flat abs admired. If you wear jeans and tees, you want the world to think you are casual. If you wear linen and cashmere you are giving off a money vibe.

I don't let my daughter wear any tops that show her tummy. Also no tight form-fitting tee shirts and no cleavage. She's 14. It's not about how she is or isn't enticing boys. It's about how she is presenting herself to the world.

I don't let my 16yo son dress like a gangbanger. He has a school dress code and he says he likes it, that it makes him feel more toward the adult world than the teen world. He also attends an alternative high school.

Being taken seriously is more important to me than being sexy. I have big boobs but I want my success at work to be because I'm good at my job, not because I show off my assets. And yes, one reason I left my last place of employment was that an admin was hired and she was not about being taken seriously at all. It is all about her low-cut tops and tight pants and very short skirts... and all those 'reasons' she and a married partner found to be out of the office together.

[grandmadugger]

don't they realize people can still think perverted thoughts about them even if they don't "show off" their bodies....it's kinda useless imo to even bother to be "modest " because you can't control other people's minds on how they think about you and don't they realize that anyway?

WTF? This is the opposite of slut shaming. You can slam the Duggars for a lot of things but the fact that they don't have their tits and ass hanging out shouldn't be one of them.

I dress modestly. Not for religious purposes but because that's how I feel the most comfortable. Sick perverts are going to be sick perverts but if I'm not tossing my boobs out the average man won't notice.

[doggie]

I dress modestly. Not for religious purposes but because that's how I feel the most comfortable. Sick perverts are going to be sick perverts but if I'm not tossing my boobs out the average man won't notice.

Men look even if you dress modestly the less that's revealed the more is left to imagination and that can work someone up more than boobs hanging out.

[grandmadugger]

Men look even if you dress modestly the less that's revealed the more is left to imagination and that can work someone up more than boobs hanging out.

But I'm not comfortable with my boobs hanging out. Some women are and that's fine. But I'm not and I refused to be shamed into thinking I need to have my boobs out because some guys get worked up about it. That's the guy's issue not mine.

[JellyHope]

But I'm not comfortable with my boobs hanging out. Some women are and that's fine. But I'm not and I refused to be shamed into thinking I need to have my boobs out because some guys get worked up about it. That's the guy's issue not mine.

No one, including the OP who you replied to, was insinuating that anyone SHOULD have their boobies all out for show. I feel you got a bit defensive & overreacted a bit.

[grandmadugger]

No one, including the OP who you replied to, was insinuating that anyone SHOULD have their boobies all out for show. I feel you got a bit defensive & overreacted a bit.

The OP said it is useless to dress modestly if that's not insinuating that women should just walk around with their boobies hanging out than I guess I misunderstood what useless means. And thanks for the hand slap it really made my day!

[Toothfairy]

I don't think the way a person dresses says much about them, maybe to society but not to me. The girl who wears long skirts and covers up could be bad and crave attention vs the girl who doesn't cover up and wears mini skirts could be a sweet person and doesn't want attention. They just like wearing what fits them

[DarkAnts]

There is nothing wrong with a home birth for a non complicated pregnancy. I am not surprised that Jill would want one after attending a few home births herself. I just hope she is given more privacy then Anna.

[browncoatslytherin]

The OP said it is useless to dress modestly if that's not insinuating that women should just walk around with their boobies hanging out than I guess I misunderstood what useless means. And thanks for the hand slap it really made my day!

actually, the op said that the standards are useless (implying because they're reasoning is that "they don't want to cause a man to stumble") but men can stumble even with what they wear. so it's not what they're wearing but their reasoning for it. if they wore what they wore just because they liked it and they didn't make a big deal out of dressing that way, it wouldn't be a such a topic for discussion. but because they tout their ideals the way that they do, then it becomes something to talk about. they hold all kinds of fucked up beliefs that manifest in ways that may seem harmless and perfectly fine when looked at on the surface.

and, ultimately, whether or not the point was put across effectively or not by the op...well, obviously to you it wasn't. sometimes communicating over the internet is harder than real life...things aren't worded just right, the tone is misread, things that a poster think should be implied aren't even picked up at all, etc. it happens to everyone at some point (certainly has happened to me many a time!) but we're not trying to be hand-slappy, just trying to explain. :)

[OneFifthQuiverFull]

Speaking of modesty: This is something I have been wondering about but wasn't sure where to put it.

I grew up all in love with Laura Ingalls eventually Wilder and her books, and eventually of course her show as a child of the 70s. Of course this is 35ish years ago, so I'd like to be corrected if wrong.

Somehow I got the impression from Mrs.Ingalls and eventually Laura that women of a certain age put their hair up as a modesty standard. Young girls keep their hair down, but when they are older and closer to marrying age, the hair goes up so the only one who gets to see their hair down is their husband as an act of intimacy. I think I remember we'd sometimes see Mrs. Ingalls with her hair down inside their home, but that would have been just her immediate family seeing her that way, not the townspeople.

Did I make that up in my young romantic little mind or does that sound right to others?

And if I AM remembering correctly, isn't it strange that in Duggerville and QF and Gothard Gotham, the hair is worn DOWN as opposed to up for the husband's (and future husband's) benefit?

[browncoatslytherin]

i remember the same, but i'm not sure where i heard that or got that impression, either. i did get to watch some little house on the prairie as well, but also watched other stuff like "dr quinn, medicine woman" and other stuff like that (super family friendly, in other words).

[Hooligan]

Here is the thing....If I am cooking an amazing dinner that smells come hither that does not give anyone the right to eat some of it without my invitation. How another dresses, covered or uncovered is NOT an invitation. What bothers me about the Dugger philosophy of coverage is that it is predicated on men being animals with out control over their own urges. The idea that a short skirt or a hug "defrauds" (geeezzz the misuse of that word) anyone reduces a woman to the value of my amazing dinner!

I agree that being taken seriously is more important than being sexy. (Sorry BrownieMomma I am totally stealing that one) And I hate the idea that a woman has to be show off her body to be successful at music or the stage or at a job, but by the same token I do not believe any woman should be shamed for dressing in a way that makes her feel good and right.

[BrownieMomma]

Speaking of modesty: This is something I have been wondering about but wasn't sure where to put it.

I grew up all in love with Laura Ingalls eventually Wilder and her books, and eventually of course her show as a child of the 70s. Of course this is 35ish years ago, so I'd like to be corrected if wrong.

Somehow I got the impression from Mrs.Ingalls and eventually Laura that women of a certain age put their hair up as a modesty standard. Young girls keep their hair down, but when they are older and closer to marrying age, the hair goes up so the only one who gets to see their hair down is their husband as an act of intimacy. I think I remember we'd sometimes see Mrs. Ingalls with her hair down inside their home, but that would have been just her immediate family seeing her that way, not the townspeople.

Did I make that up in my young romantic little mind or does that sound right to others?

And if I AM remembering correctly, isn't it strange that in Duggerville and QF and Gothard Gotham, the hair is worn DOWN as opposed to up for the husband's (and future husband's) benefit?

Oh same here! Huge fan of LH for many many years, books and show. I think the same as you, braids for little girls, hair up when they become women.

This is also how it goes in my Pentecostal church. Single ladies are actually permitted to wear their hair down. Married ladies, up.

[SassyPants]

The only area the Duggars extend modesty to is the physical vessel. The only concern JB and M have is the extended purity of their adult kids until they get married.

No concerns for their intellect, imaginations, privacy, work ethic, skills, character development...NOTHING. It's all about this "purity" concern.

So once they are married and deflowered- there is nothing left to offer.

It's effed up thinking and priorities.

[Four is Enough]

Seems to me in the age of Laura Ingalls Wilder et al, when the hair went up, the skirts also went down. Young males also went from shorter pants to full length pants. I'm thinking puberty came into play somehow around there.

[snarkykitty]

Oh same here! Huge fan of LH for many many years, books and show. I think the same as you, braids for little girls, hair up when they become women.

This is also how it goes in my Pentecostal church. Single ladies are actually permitted to wear their hair down. Married ladies, up.

Why are married women not allowed to wear their hair down?

What happens if a married woman wore her hair down?

Is the rule only for church, or does it apply during everyday life?

[BrownieMomma]

Why are married women not allowed to wear their hair down?

What happens if a married woman wore her hair down?

Is the rule only for church, or does it apply during everyday life?

My particular church is quite lenient. Some of the oldest ladies (70ish) always wear their hair up in a traditional bun. Some of the not quite as old ladies will put their hair up in a ponytail or use other headpieces.

However, ladies really do whatever they want. No one ever gets yelled at, most put it up in such a cute way with side braids or Katniss braid or messy bun and most also color and highlight, some are very big and bold with the stripes. Makeup and manicures are quite common, one day I was chuckling to myself how a bunch of ladies down front had their hands raised and most had French tips.

Dress standards - if you are on the platform for any reason, must adhere to all standards or excuse yourself from the platform.

If you are sitting in a pew, you can pretty much do what you want.

It's expected to dress that way every day however there's quite a few medical related jobs held by women at church and they all wear scrubs - no skirts. That's why I scoffed at Jana and Jill making such a huge frickin deal out making firefighter skirts.

I don't actually see too many people out and about, probably due to most of them being SAHM and I work. The ones that work non-medical jobs generally try to dress to standards but they also work for other church people. When I see a SAHM usually its a jean skirt and tee shirt but I have seen one wearing capri work out pants. Oh and I do see another who runs marathons and she trains in athletic clothes.

Fundie-lighter than the Duggars.

[RosyDaisy]

Bottom line, men need to be taught self-control.