Duggars Close Friends Accused of Child Abuse

[Eliza]

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/ ... ars-abuse/

 

Wow! They even attended jills wedding along with the thousands!

[BrownieMomma]

I can't open radar online from work, can you give a recap?

[ILoveJellybeans]

Its the Jeub family-there is a thread on them in the main forum. Basically, the Jeubs were filmed for a TLC documentary called Kids by the Dozen, years ago. They have 16 kids and are friends of the Duggars. The two eldest daughters, the similarly named Alyssa and Alicia, were both kicked out of the house years before. One of them is now a Muslim. Recently, the Jeubs also kicked out their next two oldest kids-Cynthia and Lydia. Cynthia posted on her blog about how Chris and Wendy, the parents were abusive to her, both physically and emotionally. Cynthia is in therapy, she is depressed and from being a child had suicidal thoughts and used to self harm, but her parents made her cover it up. She says that her parents beat her and her siblings with a belt, and her mother punched her brother in the face and just wouldn't stop punching him until she pulled her off him, and he had to wear make up for weeks to cover the bruises. On hearing this, Chris made an episode of his podcast with the next four children, who are teenagers and are yet to be inevitably kicked out. Chris said that Cynthia is lying and made it all up because she is mentally ill. The kids were allowed to do a bit by themselves, allegedly without parents in the room. They said they were not abused, well, their mother hit them in the face and threw cutlery at them, but that isn't abuse because she said sorry and never did it again. Only she did, but the kid who was the victim deserved it because he was being rebellious. Predictably, this didn't go as well as Chris planned, but he deleted it, but luckily someone saved it and put it on YouTube.

[EmmieJ]

So horrible, but I'm glad she is away from her parents now and apparently getting some counseling/therapy. I hope that this opens some of the general public's eyes about not only the Jeubs, but the entire fundie mindset.

[doggie]

three large figures in the duggers lives have been very bad people. so much for Christians are more moral then us heathens.

[FundieFarmer]

There's a big post going on over at Quiverfull of Snark re: Cynthia Jeub, and one thing of note is that the closeness of friendship between the Duggars and Jeubs seems to be new. Evidently the first time they really spent any significant amount of time together was last summer, with a concluding promise to stay in touch (post A). It would appear they continued to stay in touch, leading to the second post (B), wherein Chris Jeub (smarmy, overexaggerating, fame-hunting little weasel that he is) gives a story that rings to me to be slightly different than what his original post says. But see for yourself...interesting stuff. In another post that asks if the Duggars have an expiration date, I'd hazard to guess that if they do, it will come from continued scandals like this and Bill Gothard...

A.

jeubfamily.com/2013/06/10/up-till-midnight-with-the-duggars/

B.

jeubfamily.com/2014/06/19/the-nonconforming-duggars/

[FundieFarmer]

Also, here's the podcast:

(not breaking since it's not a fundie's account!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucpzvpMHQxA

[CorruptionInc.]

Its the Jeub family-there is a thread on them in the main forum. Basically, the Jeubs were filmed for a TLC documentary called Kids by the Dozen, years ago. They have 16 kids and are friends of the Duggars. The two eldest daughters, the similarly named Alyssa and Alicia, were both kicked out of the house years before. One of them is now a Muslim. Recently, the Jeubs also kicked out their next two oldest kids-Cynthia and Lydia. Cynthia posted on her blog about how Chris and Wendy, the parents were abusive to her, both physically and emotionally. Cynthia is in therapy, she is depressed and from being a child had suicidal thoughts and used to self harm, but her parents made her cover it up. She says that her parents beat her and her siblings with a belt, and her mother punched her brother in the face and just wouldn't stop punching him until she pulled her off him, and he had to wear make up for weeks to cover the bruises. On hearing this, Chris made an episode of his podcast with the next four children, who are teenagers and are yet to be inevitably kicked out. Chris said that Cynthia is lying and made it all up because she is mentally ill. The kids were allowed to do a bit by themselves, allegedly without parents in the room. They said they were not abused, well, their mother hit them in the face and threw cutlery at them, but that isn't abuse because she said sorry and never did it again. Only she did, but the kid who was the victim deserved it because he was being rebellious. Predictably, this didn't go as well as Chris planned, but he deleted it, but luckily someone saved it and put it on YouTube.

Do we know the Christian beliefs on Mental Illness? My catholic mother believes Mental Illness is just rubbish and you can just "snap out of it". I've been mentally ill now for over 10 years and there is still such a negative stigmata attached to it; so I'd hate to know what the Jeub's are thinking / saying about their daughter!

I keep mine under control by eating well, exercising, not drinking, doing things I enjoy, breathing deeply etc... I may sound square; but it keeps it at bay.

Edited for spelling!

[scoutsadie]

Gah... These poor kids. This post from Cynthia's blog is so sad (and worth reading as it addresses the question of why smart people sometimes join or stay in fundy families or communities):

http://cynthiajeub.com/?p=3245

[grandmadugger]

Do we know the Christian beliefs on Mental Illness? My catholic mother believes Mental Illness is just rubbish and you can just "snap out of it". I've been mentally ill now for over 10 years and there is still such a negative stigmata attached to it; so I'd hate to know what the Jeub's are thinking / saying about their daughter!

I keep mine under control by eating well, exercising, not drinking, doing things I enjoy, breathing deeply etc... I may sound square; but it keeps it at bay.

Edited for spelling!

I can't speak for all Christians but in the circles I've been involved in some mental illnesses were viewed as an attack from satan BUT none thought you could just pray it away. I've never known anyone to be discouraged from taking medications if that's what was needed or changing their environment if that's what was needed. I've also been taught that doctors and medications were guided by God so going to a doctor or getting medical interventions weren't seen as a bad thing.

[RosyDaisy]

Mental illness is something my ministers take very seriously and don't believe you can snap out of it. They highly recommend seeking a referral to a therapist.

[1st wiccan fundie]

Finally,there's a large amount of bad press about who the duggars really are! It's never been questioned so much by the mainstream as it has been lately. I'm certainly a fan of that!

The Duggars themselves often talk about the company you keep says a lot about you! And the friends and affiliations they have are pretty damn shady! But we knew that already! The leghumpers will never face the truth. But this sort of topic can be helpful for all those who never thought there was reason to look behind their Christian Curtain.

[riverofchange]

In the church I was in I was demon possessed because of my mental illness. When I took my medicines I was frolicking in sin. I had so many oil anointing done to me that I had a cross of pimples on my forehead and nose. I was terrorized and tortured. So yeah there are churches out there that believe mental illness is devil related. BTW I live in Arkansas.

[Coco]

In the church I was in I was demon possessed because of my mental illness. When I took my medicines I was frolicking in sin. I had so many oil anointing done to me that I had a cross of pimples on my forehead and nose. I was terrorized and tortured. So yeah there are churches out there that believe mental illness is devil related. BTW I live in Arkansas.

It's difficult to understand how grown people can actually believe superstitions like that, and put kids/young adults through so much trauma. I'm so sorry that you had to go through that.

[formergothardite]

Do we know the Christian beliefs on Mental Illness? My catholic mother believes Mental Illness is just rubbish and you can just "snap out of it". I've been mentally ill now for over 10 years and there is still such a negative stigmata attached to it; so I'd hate to know what the Jeub's are thinking / saying about their daughter!

I keep mine under control by eating well, exercising, not drinking, doing things I enjoy, breathing deeply etc... I may sound square; but it keeps it at bay.

Edited for spelling!

Gothard must have gotten it pulled from the internet because I can't find the video anymore, but there used to be a video from his either his Basic or Advanced Seminar where Gothard reveals his official stance on mental illness. It is this, there is no such thing as depression, schizophrenia or any mental illness, there are just really selfish people. So I would guess that is how the Duggars feel about mental illness.

[Rachel333]

To be fair, it doesn't sound like they were anything more than acquaintances with the Duggars. Even if they were close friends, I don't know that this would necessarily reflect badly on the Duggars, unlike Gothard or even Doug Philips.

Regarding Christians and mental illness, it was the norm among Christians where I grew up (Arkansas) to believe that mental illnesses were spiritual in nature (not necessarily demon possession, but demonic influence or just a personal spiritual failing) and required prayer, not medication or secular therapy.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

I grew up with mental illness, which now I think is likely at least somewhat genetic. My grandfather had some type of mental breakdown, the details of which I don't really know, but he says he was healed at a faith healing meeting, which is what converted my grandparents to Pentecostalism when my dad was young. My dad has had serious lifelong depression and anxiety and has had suicidal thoughts since he was 11. My mom has told me that there have been times where she was afraid he would kill himself any day. Despite this, he has never sought any type of treatment, certainly not medication, because he believes prayer is the only way to treat it.

I have had depression and anxiety/ocd since about 8, developed an eating disorder at 12 (and every time I think I'm over it, it seems to come back--I'm doing okay-ish now, but earlier this year I got down to a bmi of 13.8, which in retrospect is kind of scary though I didn't feel particularly thin at the time), and when I was 13 I started self-harming. I think I was 16 when I first had seriously suicidal thoughts. I naively thought I was effectively hiding it all from my parents, but I found out more recently that they knew about most of it all along, but didn't do anything but pray, not even talk to me about it. I'm still not sure what to make of that, to be honest, since overall I do feel like they have been good parents.

I made my first suicide attempt two years ago which I kept hidden for a while but was the catalyst for me finally gathering the courage to do the responsible thing and seek treatment on my own. I kept feeling extremely suicidal, though, and ended up in a psych hospital which is when my parents and I finally had to acknowledge the issue. The same day my parents found out I had been planning another suicide attempt, they asked me to go off the medication I had just started. While I was in the hospital (multiple times, unfortunately) they sent me sermons and a book on how mental illness was caused by demons, which the hospital staff was very reluctant to let me keep.

We have all changed a lot through the whole experience though, and while my parents still don't like the idea of psychiatric medication, they think it can be okay and even pay for mine now, which I appreciate. My mom still thinks what I really need is to stop "turning [my] back on God", but she has told me she doesn't think I am demon possessed, which I guess is progress.

I am doing really well these days, btw, which I attribute largely to finding the right medication combo. The medication has been hugely helpful on its own, but has also let me get to the point where I can actually work on therapy techniques as well. For the first time I can remember I don't feel depressed at all, and I am actually looking forward to the future. I have never been at all psychotic so I thought I was always thinking logically despite the depression, but it has been amazing realizing just how distorted my thoughts were.

I do think that more and more Christians are recognizing the physical reality of mental illness. I am not Rick Warren's biggest fan, but I have been very impressed by what he has been doing since his son tragically died by suicide last year. He has been raising awareness about mental illness and with his enormous influence in the Evangelical community I think he has the potential to really cause a lot of positive change.

[LogansMama]

three large figures in the duggers lives have been very bad people. so much for Christians are more moral then us heathens.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Sometimes christians are the least christ-like people.

[JillsFlowerHeadband]

Mental illness is something my ministers take very seriously and don't believe you can snap out of it. They highly recommend seeking a referral to a therapist.

Yes.

My aunt began exhibiting symptoms of bipolar disorder (which she was indeed diagnosed with) and it was a Catholic priest who advised my uncle to take her to see a psychiatrist and get an evaluation. The priest's take was that mental illnesses are diseases of the brain (the brain being an organ) and thus need to be treated medically.

[JillsFlowerHeadband]

Just adding for clarity, since my edit time ran out (and on closer inspection it made my post come across as dismissive of those who have suffered abuse at the hands of clergy/churches for dealing with mental illness):

This has not historically been the norm, but thankfully is happening more often (and hopefully will continue to become commonplace.)

[SPHASH]

Mental illness is something my ministers take very seriously and don't believe you can snap out of it. They highly recommend seeking a referral to a therapist.

A former pastor of mine who got a Masters degree in pastoral counseling explained that he can counsel a suicidal person for a max of three session, if by the 3rd the person is still having suicidal thoughts he is supposed to refer them to a shrink as its obvious the problem is much more than spiritual.

[Katie_Bug]

Mental illness is something my ministers take very seriously and don't believe you can snap out of it. They highly recommend seeking a referral to a therapist.

I wish my friend’s parents and her former church felt that way. She was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder a few years ago and had to move back home because she couldn’t hold a job that pays well enough to live in her area. Her parents (and her former church) believe she has this disorder because she is not holy enough and not trusting God enough. She is encouraged to go off of her medicine because taking the medicines is allowing Satan to get in or some such nonsense. She knows she needs to be on them, but she is internalizing everything they are saying and so expresses anger at herself for being dependent on meds. Unfortunately, she is not covered by Medicaid so she has to pay for her meds and doctor visit oop. She doesn’t have much money but her parents refuse to condone her wicked behavior by helping to cover the medical expenses. Therefore, some months she can afford her medicine and some months she can’t which means she is getting worse. Ugh!

I these wish people would educate themselves about mental illness. Of course, these are the same people who have never read Harry Potter but believe it is promoting devil worship. :angry-banghead:

[fabkiwi06]

Not to defend the Duggars... but I'm sure they were not cheering these people on as they beat the crap out of their kids. I believe that they would be horrified if they witnessed that level of abuse. Most people would.

Now... that's not to say that I don't think there is some skeletons lurking in the Duggar Prayer closet. Any family that supports blanket training has warped ideas on what passes as "acceptable punishment".

I hope there are no mental illness issues in that house. Depression and Anxiety are bad enough to deal with WITH the proper help... but in an environment like that, it would be pure hell.

[CorruptionInc.]

I can't speak for all Christians but in the circles I've been involved in some mental illnesses were viewed as an attack from satan BUT none thought you could just pray it away. I've never known anyone to be discouraged from taking medications if that's what was needed or changing their environment if that's what was needed. I've also been taught that doctors and medications were guided by God so going to a doctor or getting medical interventions weren't seen as a bad thing.

That's good to hear. :) My mum is extreme to say the least, but my dad the complete opposite - he doesn't see mental illness as something that just goes away and believes treatment is important.

In fact how my parents ended up getting married is beyond me... 45 years though!

[antwan]

three large figures in the duggers lives have been very bad people. so much for Christians are more moral then us heathens.

Please don't generalize. Most Christians do not believe we are "more moral" (or better in any way) than others. The very basis for Christianity, our need for a Savior, stands against such an arrogant belief. :(