Austria teenage girl jihadis 'want to come home’ from Isil

[Anny Nym]

There have been action taken to protect them, especially to protect young children that a family of 11 members recently took with them ( children = babies under 5 years). A free telephone line was opened for families who suspect of having a jihadist child. And when we have hostages (I think about Herve Gourdel, although he was assassinated ), we do not let them decapitated. Even if we sometimes fail, we try to protect them, because they are our citizens. I would love to see the government of François Hollande to take more military actions to help our citizens here and bring them back, but I guess the US don't want to.

Absolutely NONE of the things you have listed does in any way answer my question.

In Austria, there were also people hindered from leaving the country, we have the Hotline too, and if there are HOSTAGES (like journalists) - of course something is done, Marianne please! This does by the way apply to every other country I know with that kind of problem too. Germany, USA, GB, andsoon.

And saying "Well we would, but the USA doesn´t let us.".... Really? That´s your argument? :evil-eye: Come on, that´s ridiculous. And I am, God knows, certainly not a fan of the us-american foreign policy.

Actually, I think to put the blame on someone else - that´s cowardice in my eyes.

[It'sFunToRun]

I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I thought the boy in the examples was similar to the girls --initially infatuated with the terrorist groups - but then having a change of heart.

I think using a kid from the country the terrorists are in kind of makes for a bad comparison though. Isn't the whole idea of sending anyone fighting against ISIS in Syria to save the people of that country? So if the 15 year old boy isn't involved with them anymore - he would be "saved" to the same extent as anyone else in Syria -- if the Coalition wins, and he hasn't been killed yet, presumably he could go about living his life.

Now if the comparison you were making was between the two European white girls, and a European, brown boy and you think the publics reaction would be different....that would make more sense. Although it's still more likely the boy had actually participated in terrorist activities as a soldier. Plus you have the added dilema of the babies the girls are carrying.

But I think it's, sadly, too risky to make a special effort to rescue any of them.

Eta: oh my goodness, just looked at their photos - they are babies! Seeing the photo really pointed out, to me, how very, very young they are! Their poor, poor parents!

In the sane world, you can treat boys and girls the same, but when they are being held captive by Muslim terrorists, there are huge differences between boys and girls. Like you said, the boys will be more likely to kill people, and the girls are more likely to just be support, which means they would not need to be tried for murder if they came home. Also the girls getting pregnant adds a new dimension. You didn't mention this, but the girls will be sex slaves and spend their lives getting raped by Muslim terrorists, which presumably wouldn't happen to the boys.

I think the girls being white is seen as a trophy to the Muslim terrorists, and for that reason they will be raped and used for breeding instead of being killed. I think a brown girl who had said negative things about them and hurt their publicity would have been killed a lot quicker. It's not that hard for ISIS to kidnap and rape local girls, but having a European girl is a prize.

[Marianne]

Absolutely NONE of the things you have listed does in any way answer my question.

In Austria, there were also people hindered from leaving the country, we have the Hotline too, and if there are HOSTAGES (like journalists) - of course something is done, Marianne please! This does by the way apply to every other country I know with that kind of problem too. Germany, USA, GB, andsoon.

And saying "Well we would, but the USA doesn´t let us.".... Really? That´s your argument? :evil-eye: Come on, that´s ridiculous. And I am, God knows, certainly not a fan of the us-american foreign policy.

Actually, I think to put the blame on someone else - that´s cowardice in my eyes.

I don't think the USA try a lot about hostages. They wanted us to let OUR hostages died, when they learn that the governement was going to payed ransom.

But we MUST blame someone else, because there IS officials in ALL european country who ARE responsible of their citizens, because the citizens of a coutry are under his protections.

In my country , Hollande can not try anything to protect the French in Syria, or not so much, because he is Obama's poodle, and that military operations are dictated by the USA. Holland is not De Gaulle, hélas.

Oh, and Hollande (and the USA), works, does business with Qatar that sells weapons to jihadists. So yes, I blame him, and I blame most of the governments that try anything, and who arm jihadist.

[Mama Mia]

Wow, just noticed this part :shock: So these two girls found a secret way to let someone know that they no longer wanted to be part of ISIS and someone decided to publish their photos - and the media ran with it?!?!

That's....awful

[It'sFunToRun]

I don't think the USA try a lot about hostages. They wanted us to let OUR hostages died, when they learn that the governement was going to payed ransom.

But we MUST blame someone else, because there IS officials in ALL european country who ARE responsible of their citizens, because the citizens of a coutry are under his protections.

In my country , Hollande can not try anything to protect the French in Syria, or not so much, because he is Obama's poodle, and that military operations are dictated by the USA. Holland is not De Gaulle, hélas.

Oh, and Hollande (and the USA), works, does business with Qatar that sells weapons to jihadists. So yes, I blame him, and I blame most of the governments that try anything, and who arm jihadist.

The US has a policy of not negotiating with terrorists. It doesn't mean we don't care about the hostages, but we think that by giving the terrorists what they want, more harm will be done in the long run. I agree with this policy and wish that my country had it as well. If terrorists kidnap one civilian, is his life worth the lives that will be ended with the money you give the terrorists to free him, or by releasing more terrorists who will commit more murders? I think no. Plus it puts the murder of the civilian squarely on the shoulders of the terrorists who murder him, not on the government for a "failed hostage release".

When terrorists kidnap a civilian, the response should always be to fight the terrorists harder, and not to give them anything.

[Marianne]

Wow, just noticed this part :shock: So these two girls found a secret way to let someone know that they no longer wanted to be part of ISIS and someone decided to publish their photos - and the media ran with it?!?!

That's....awful

If this is true, then these media are irresponsible scavengers.

[Anny Nym]

I don't think the USA try a lot about hostages. They wanted us to let OUR hostages died, when they learn that the governement was going to payed ransom.

But we MUST blame someone else, because there IS officials in ALL european country who ARE responsible of their citizens, because the citizens of a coutry are under his protections.

In my country , Hollande can not try anything to protect the French in Syria, or not so much, because he is Obama's poodle, and that military operations are dictated by the USA. Holland is not De Gaulle, hélas.

Oh, and Hollande (and the USA), works, does business with Qatar that sells weapons to jihadists. So yes, I blame him, and I blame most of the governments that try anything, and who arm jihadist.

Marianne, I believe you do know the the difference between being genuinely hold hostage and being involved into terrorist actions?

"But we MUST blame someone else, because there IS officials in ALL european country who ARE responsible of their citizens, because the citizens of a coutry are under his protections. "

Uhm...what? I´m sorry, but what does that mean? Why "MUST" France blame someone else, if it does not actively bring back IS members ?

All fair and true - to some extend. This one being France is not under any special limitation like zB Germany, who still has only a truce with the USA and your argument would be more reasonable. Putting all the "poodling" besides, France is a country in is own sovereignty.

We have our own poodles in Austria too, besides :lol: While we did away with the vice poodle this year, the main poodle is still in in exalted position. France and Austria is (yet) still sitting in the same EU - boat.

[Anny Nym]

If this is true, then these media are irresponsible scavengers.

Indeed.

They got their photos from the interpol page and an article published in Austria in spring 2014, just after the 2 girls did run away and tried to "convince" other girls to follow them.

It is said, as ISIS´main propaganda medium is social and digital media - if they didn´t know of any wishes of the girls to defect, now they do for sure!

Which would make any fleeing or even safe return of the girls even more suspicious. The ISIS already stated their plan to "camouflage" terrorists as refugees.

None of the girls speaks chechen (like their husbands) or arabic. And after Erdogan let bomb Kurds yesterday and still refuses to let any anti-IS-alliance member use his military bases on the border, it is only a question of days until this gate is closed for ANYONE.

[Marianne]

Marianne, I believe you do know the the difference between being genuinely hold hostage and being involved into terrorist actions?

Uhm...what? I´m sorry, but what does that mean? Why "MUST" France blame someone else, if it does not actively bring back IS members ?

All fair and true - to some extend. This one being France is not under any special limitation like zB Germany, who still has only a truce with the USA and your argument would be more reasonable. Putting all the "poodling" besides, France is a country in is own sovereignty.

We have our own poodles in Austria too, besides :lol: While we did away with the vice poodle this year, the main poodle is still in in exalted position. France and Austria is (yet) still sitting in the same EU - boat.

I know, and see the difference, but I always think that we must help both (with a priority of hostages, of course), especially if there's children involved.

I believe in shared responsibility of all countries - Austria, UK, US, France, whatever - when it comes to terrorism.

Wait, what, Germany always have a truce with the USA ? Did not know that. I thought they were free since 89... When it comes to joins military actions (as there is in Syria in this moment), we all know that the only one sovereignty that matters is the US soveregnty.

I have no trust or hope for the EU. It's a boat of poddle who submit to everyone except the people of their countries :angry-banghead:

Indeed.

They got their photos from the interpol page and an article published in Austria in spring 2014, just after the 2 girls did run away and tried to "convince" other girls to follow them.

It is said, as ISIS´main propaganda medium is social and digital media - if they didn´t know of any wishes of the girls to defect, now they do for sure!

Which would make any fleeing or even safe return of the girls even more suspicious. The ISIS already stated their plan to "camouflage" terrorists as refugees.

None of the girls speaks chechen (like their husbands) or arabic. And after Erdogan let bomb Kurds yesterday and still refuses to let any anti-IS-alliance member use his military bases on the border, it is only a question of days until this gate is closed for ANYONE.

... I believe in freedom of speech, but not in this case... They can't think about the security of the girls ?!

Oh God, Erdogan. He have a LOT of blood in his hands. And he wants to enter the EU !

[Anny Nym]

...[shortened our quotes, so we don´t have so much reposts. Sincerly, Anny.]...

I know, and see the difference, but I always think that we must help both (with a priority of hostages, of course), especially if there's children involved.

I believe in shared responsibility of all countries - Austria, UK, US, France, whatever - when it comes to terrorism.

Wait, what, Germany always have a truce with the USA ? Did not know that. I thought they were free since 89... When it comes to joins military actions (as there is in Syria in this moment), we all know that the only one sovereignty that matters is the US soveregnty.

I have no trust or hope for the EU. It's a boat of poddle who submit to everyone except the people of their countries :angry-banghead:

... I believe in freedom of speech, but not in this case... They can't think about the security of the girls ?!

Oh God, Erdogan. He have a LOT of blood in his hands. And he wants to enter the EU !

Usually, Austria is always trying to make an effort to consider every pont of view and tries to aim for a diplomatic solution. This did keep us quite free of terrorist attacks and threats. Bear in mind, while the turbulent time period of the Cold War, Austria had a somewhat unique role as the "gatekeeper country" between the East and the West. And then again after 2001.

I can think of only 2 major attempts to attac: the OPEC hostage taking in the 70s and and a minor incident in the 80s at the viennese airport, I think we had 5 causualites IN TOTAL. Because we always try diplomacy first.

And we had, by God, many...maaany terrorist groups/liberation groups/ call it what you like passing through or having secret bases. PKK, PLO, IRA, ETA, RAF members, lybian ones, South American ones of couse too... even Al Kaida. Think of any! They have been here, we even put a couple of them into the UNO City if it was deemed necessary.

But where does one start reasoning with ISIS? They want to blow up Mecca and Medina, for God´s sake!

We have a very strong kurdish community in Austria, should we jeopardize them right now in the wake of Kobane?

___

Yes, Germany only has a truce according to international law and no peace treaty. You are thinking of the German reunification. That are 2 different cases, although.

D´accord with the sovereignty and the Erdogan part, Marianne. As long as this man is in power, his vision of Turkey has no place in the european community (Atatürk must be rotating on turbine speed in grave). I´m not saying EU, because I share your view if the EU. It´s for banks and corporates, not the people. I hope, when my children will be grown up, we already got rid of it.

They can't think about the security of the girls ?!

They probably just didn´t gave a damn and only saw the $$$ for a big hit story.

[samurai_sarah]

I think it's more likely to send the message that if you choose to go join terrorist groups, don't expect your home country to send in soldiers to save you, so think twice.

That's the message the secular world gets out of this whole thing. I was speculating why ISIL might allow communication at all, and how that might be received among their own.

[Anny Nym]

@samurai_sarah if we really let that whole story sink in... all of us here are discussing from the POV that it´s really the girls who were articulating this messages and that the messages were "genuine" (genuine as in the sense of them not still brainwashed for any kind of suicidal mission, not being unter pressure or it was maybe even written by their husbands). But how do we know that? It was not a video chat they did with their family. It was some kind of texting and the only clue to the alleged motherhood is that one girl nicknamed herself Umm.

So what DO we know really?

[samurai_sarah]

@samurai_sarah if we really let that whole story sink in... all of us here are discussing from the POV that it´s really the girls who were articulating this messages and that the messages were "genuine" (genuine as in the sense of them not still brainwashed for any kind of suicidal mission, not being unter pressure or it was maybe even written by their husbands). But how do we know that? It was not a video chat they did with their family. It was some kind of texting and the only clue to the alleged motherhood is that one girl nicknamed herself Umm.

So what DO we know really?

We don't know. I was merely speculating on how ISIL could use this to their advantage, and that's all I have, speculation. We don't know if those messages even came from the girls, we don't know the how or why behind the messages. In summary, we just don't know.

[Burris]

[*]

How can anyone know that trying to get back into Austria isn't part of a terrorist plan? We don't.

I don't think anyone is suggesting they be turned out to do as they will. They joined an enemy force...and then they surrendered. If policy turns to brutalizing or killing surrendered ISIS members, that creates a situation where ISIS is the more logical choice for those who value their lives

How do we know that they're genuinely wanting out? We don't. Between keeping them out and letting them back in, which is the better way to ensure the safety of the millions who didn't run off to join ISIS?

I think some people believe that those who join terror groups or inhumane military forces are somehow less than human - incapable of remorse; incapable of change.

But these people are as human as you are. They err. They gravitate towards power for the security of it. But then a time comes when those whose consciences remain intact then know they turned a bad corner. They know they can never go back - but in a society that repudiates the atrocious and unforgiving rules of groups such as ISIS, then there should be room for those girls to grow beyond their worst acts. A day may even come when their repudiation of terrorism will give other young people pause.

Oh they should be watched. Give them the right tools, however, and you may find strong allies in them.

Their credibility is shot.

It is my most earnest prayer you never encounter a situation where you learn the worst you're capable of.

As someone else said, no one helps the 15-year-old Syrian boys who want to get away, even if they've never been involved with ISIS. Those girls are white Europeans who chose this.

That means a system should be created to help those boys, rathen than just leaving every last walkaway to his or her fate.

[Anny Nym]

[*]

I don't think anyone is suggesting they be turned out to do as they will. They joined an enemy force...and then they surrendered. If policy turns to brutalizing or killing surrendered ISIS members, that creates a situation where ISIS is the more logical choice for those who value their lives

I think some people believe that those who join terror groups or inhumane military forces are somehow less than human - incapable of remorse; incapable of change.

But these people are as human as you are. They err. They gravitate towards power for the security of it. But then a time comes when those whose consciences remain intact then know they turned a bad corner. They know they can never go back - but in a society that repudiates the atrocious and unforgiving rules of groups such as ISIS, then there should be room for those girls to grow beyond their worst acts. A day may even come when their repudiation of terrorism will give other young people pause.

Oh they should be watched. Give them the right tools, however, and you may find strong allies in them.

It is my most earnest prayer you never encounter a situation where you learn the worst you're capable of.

That means a system should be created to help those boys, rathen than just leaving every last walkaway to his or her fate.

I just want to point out that the girls did, in fact, not surrender. One of the family members of one girl allegedly got a message about her not liking it there any more, where she also used the nickname "Umm", arabic for mother. Then the newspaper "Österreich", which has a rather shady credibility, catched on the story and did an article about it. It got out and then foreign newspapers catched on too. Now that story is everywhere on the internet. Thing is, around the same time, intelligence service decoded ISIS datas about setting up "Trojan horses" all over Europe for attempting attacks.

Until today, nobody spoke directly to the girls.

You may understand our suspiction and also that Austria would certainly not send any "missions" to Rakka, if the girls are even still in Rakka or still alive.

As for the syrian boy - Syria is in ruins. They aren´t even able to provide enough clean drinking water or medical supplies for the wounded. Who should set up any system for boys who want to get away ? There is nobody there to do so.

[Burris]

I just want to point out that the girls did, in fact, not surrender. One of the family members of one girl allegedly got a message about her not liking it there any more, where she also used the nickname "Umm", arabic for mother. Then the newspaper "Österreich", which has a rather shady credibility, catched on the story and did an article about it.

Then the reportage I encountered here was incomplete: The way I read it, those girls were quite ready to defect.

Thing is, around the same time, intelligence service decoded ISIS datas about setting up "Trojan horses" all over Europe for attempting attacks.

I can see them trying something like that - but not with those girls. A great many people associate them with ISIS and still believe them to be part of terrorist organization. It could be decades before they're trusted enough to send uncensored text messages.

I'm genuinely curious - I'm not just asking for the sake of argument - just how those two could act as "trojan horses."

ISIS sometimes recruites through the internet; they write tracts abusing their Holy Book and glamourizing service against an enemy they claim is bestial and savage. Much as I hate to say this, those trojan horses are probably posing as moderates in Muslim student groups and other organizations designed to attract the young.

You may understand our suspiction and also that Austria would certainly not send any "missions" to Rakka, if the girls are even still in Rakka or still alive.

I do understunderstand your suspicions. There are two separate but tightly liked issues, however: One is how thoso handle this situaion. The other, addressed here by several different posters, is how thoso deal with ISIS defectors and POWs.

As for the syrian boy - Syria is in ruins. They aren´t even able to provide enough clean drinking water or medical supplies for the wounded. Who should set up any system for boys who want to get away ? There is nobody there to do so.

I think the same people who spent a million lives and a trillion dollars in their War On Terror should be paying for that.

To put it blunty, how in the fuck did ISIS manage not only to invest Raqqa but build a rudimentary infrastructure there when the eyes of the Western world were allegedly on that region?

(For example, who would like to explain this? http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/07/opinion/barfi-kurds-isis/)

[DGayle]

The duty of a country is to protect and help ALL of his citizens. Periods. This girls can be punished after being rescued. But letting them in Syria, without even trying, it's cowardice.

Terrorist women in Syria have a big access on internet, so they can recruit other girls.

Since people can't be jailed indefinitely without a murder conviction, if those girls were from your country, were taken back, given a few years of a jail, and required a home to go to would you feel safe with the in your home?

Treason is a major act of turning your back on your country. This isn't something like violating a speed law, or stealing a piece of jewelry, or painting graffiti. Treason is giving a big FUCK YOU to your country, and doing something to harm that country. You LOSE your rights to expect that country to protect you when you CHOOSE to become an enemy of the country.

Trying to get those girls out of Syria would likely result on the children of other people dying. Why should other parents have to bury their kids because these two stupid girls decided to go live with terrorists? Chances are more than 2 soldiers would die in a shoot-out to get those girls out, and that's if they could find where the girls are. It's not cowardice to weigh the risks and to realize there's probably be more deaths than 2, and that those girls can never be trusted again and so will remain permanent threats, and to decide that the SAFEST thing is to leave the girls who chose to cause this.

That's a HUGE factor here. Those girls chose this. THEY CHOSE THIS. They weren't kidnapped against their will, or lost while backpacking. They consciously decided to flee their homes to go join ISIS. There are consequences to their actions. Sometimes the consequences suck more than for other things, but they chose this. And it's very suspicious that they're allowed to badmouth ISIS online without repercussions. They're trying to get a foothold in Austria. They lose.

[DGayle]

I'm not saying that Austria should go save them because it's like saving backpackers, I'm saying that it's perfectly reasonable that people want Austria to do more for Austrian teenagers than for Syrian teenagers, and that that is a good thing.

Being a member of a country should get you privileges and protections that non-citizens don't get. Saying "but what about Syrian boys?" could just as well be applied to anything that US citizens get. Why should US teens get US education and health care, but Syrian boys not? Because one group is US citizens and the other isn't! There's no hypocrisy or double standard here; it's not like people are expecting the Syrian government to save the Austrian girls.

We're not talking about extending benefits you already need to be in a certain country to receive. If a Syrian boy is in the US, he'd be entitled to medical care and a basic education

We're talking about going to another country and taking someone out of it. Why should we remove some teens who CHOSE to go there and CHOSE to join a terrorist group while leaving behind someone who DIDN'T get to chose to go there and who DIDN'T choose to join a terrorist group? If an American commits treason and swears allegiance to Allah and ISIS, that American's ass can stay there for good. I'd much rather bring to this country someone who never swore allegiance to a group set on murdering us.

That hypothetical Syrian boy didn't do wrong, and he didn't choose to be where he is. He shouldn't be fucked in favor of a couple white girls who made the conscious decision to flee a safe, first world country to go to a terrorist group.

[Mama Mia]

:think:

Since people can't be jailed indefinitely without a murder conviction, if those girls were from your country, were taken back, given a few years of a jail, and required a home to go to would you feel safe with the in your home?

Treason is a major act of turning your back on your country. This isn't something like violating a speed law, or stealing a piece of jewelry, or painting graffiti. Treason is giving a big FUCK YOU to your country, and doing something to harm that country. You LOSE your rights to expect that country to protect you when you CHOOSE to become an enemy of the country.

Trying to get those girls out of Syria would likely result on the children of other people dying. Why should other parents have to bury their kids because these two stupid girls decided to go live with terrorists? Chances are more than 2 soldiers would die in a shoot-out to get those girls out, and that's if they could find where the girls are. It's not cowardice to weigh the risks and to realize there's probably be more deaths than 2, and that those girls can never be trusted again and so will remain permanent threats, and to decide that the SAFEST thing is to leave the girls who chose to cause this.

That's a HUGE factor here. Those girls chose this. THEY CHOSE THIS. They weren't kidnapped against their will, or lost while backpacking. They consciously decided to flee their homes to go join ISIS. There are consequences to their actions. Sometimes the consequences suck more than for other things, but they chose this. And it's very suspicious that they're allowed to badmouth ISIS online without repercussions. They're trying to get a foothold in Austria. They lose.

The hard part, for me, is where is the " age of reason" drawn? I agree that making some kind of special op to retrieve just the two of them doesn't seem feasible -- but at what age is the line between " can't be trusted for life" and "dumb kid who didn't know what they were doing" - isn't one of the definitions of " innocent" being unaware of / naive?

I think it's a really hard call. Although neither are legal adults ( at least in the U.S.)- it's a lot easier, for me, to think of the 17 year old as mature enough to be held accountable. But 15 is kind of a gray area, to me. And what if one of them was 12? Should a young teen be considered a threat for the rest of their lives?

[DGayle]

I don't think the USA try a lot about hostages. They wanted us to let OUR hostages died, when they learn that the governement was going to payed ransom.

But we MUST blame someone else, because there IS officials in ALL european country who ARE responsible of their citizens, because the citizens of a coutry are under his protections.

Europeans are must more appealing as hostages exactly because European countries tend to pay up. Your countries are bankrolling terrorism. Good job there.

By not bargaining with terrorists, Americans aren't so appealing. Yeah, we do have Americans beheaded still, but kidnapping Americans is a waste of time compared to kidnaping a French citizen when France will pay millions. The cost of "protecting" your citizens is putting everyone at risk by bankrolling. You lose room to argue about America selling some arms when the money to buy those arms is coming from countries like yours. Did you ever stop to think about that? Or did your anti-America how-dare-we-not-swoop-in-to-save-your-citizens blame mindset blind you from seeing how your country is one of those to blame for Syria, Algeria, and so on, having the money to buy anything? If you want them to not be able to buy guns, stop giving them the money to buy guns that they use to kill you.

You need to look beyond what benefits the one, and look at what benefits the most.

[shedemei]

.

To put it blunty, how in the fuck did ISIS manage not only to invest Raqqa but build a rudimentary infrastructure there when the eyes of the Western world were allegedly on that region?

(For example, who would like to explain this? http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/07/opinion/barfi-kurds-isis/)

Simple: the US is afraid of aligning with the Kurds in any way because that will imply support for forming Kurdistan*. Turkey is very opposed to forming this state as they don't want to give up their own Kurdish territory, likely sparking a civil war. The US can't afford to alienate Turkey, so we arm the next generations of our enemies instead of working with the Kurds.

(I'm all for Kurdistan)

[DGayle]

I know, and see the difference, but I always think that we must help both (with a priority of hostages, of course), especially if there's children involved.

You don't understand the difference. Those girls aren't 5-year-olds takent here against their will. They are teenagers who CHOSE to leave their home country, and go get involved. They can't be called CHILDREN anymore.

I believe in shared responsibility of all countries - Austria, UK, US, France, whatever - when it comes to terrorism.

And the US's way of dealing with terrorism involves not dumping millions per hostage into the pockets of terrorist groups. You should pissed off that the US isn't giving your country money to buy back hostages. Well, your country's politicians chose to send the message that you'll give terrorists what they want. That's not the US's problem. Stop paying terrorists, and your country's people won't be such appealing kidnap targets.

[Burris]

Since people can't be jailed indefinitely without a murder conviction, if those girls were from your country, were taken back, given a few years of a jail, and required a home to go to would you feel safe with the in your home?

This isn't directed at me, but it begs for an answer.

It might be legitimate to imprison former ISIS members. If your primary reason for doing so is that people are safer, however, then you're sadly mistaken.

Me? Would I offer a bed to a former ISIS member transitioning from prison? That depends: If that individual had spent her time behind bars working to better her lot, seriously engaging with Imams committed to peaceful coexistence, then I'd "put my money where my moneouth is."

It's not always true, unfortunately, but it is true sometimes that the antidote to cruelty in one person is an unflagging commitment to kindness as expressed by someone else.

[DGayle]

One is how thoso handle this situaion. The other, addressed here by several different posters, is how thoso deal with ISIS defectors and POWs.

Imprison them in embassies instead of sending them home. None of us would be too pleased if we lost loved ones to a massive terrorist attack carried out with the help of supposed-defectors. Even with monitoring, there are still ways of getting messages to people.

Those girls are in a country where women are supposed to be very closely monitored, and yet they supposedly got messages to the outside world. Either monitoring, even closely, is prone to fail, or those messages were approved as a part of a plan to make people look like defectors to get them a foothold somewhere.

[Burris]

Simple: the US is afraid of aligning with the Kurds in any way because that will imply support for forming Kurdistan*. Turkey is very opposed to forming this state as they don't want to give up their own Kurdish territory, likely sparking a civil war. The US can't afford to alienate Turkey, so we arm the next generations of our enemies instead of working with the Kurds.

(I'm all for Kurdistan)

...and so the US allows ISIS to devastate the Turkish Kurds.

Guess what that's caalled?