Adeye upset at clinic practicing sound medicine

[BrownieMomma]

I don't mean it to be cold, it really bugs me because I do see cases like this as complete and utter hypocrisy. This woman is a real loon, adopting frozen embryos? Oh boy.

In some circumstances that could be an awesome thing to do but not in this case.

[chaotic life]

BTW, her wonderful, Christian, ethical adoption agency? Nightlight Christian adoptions (the ONLY adoption agency that does snowflake adoptions as far as I know)?

Yeah, they were the agency that facilitated Veronica Brown's adoption and hundreds of other Indian children that their attorney has helped steal from tribes in the western states, bringing them primarily into South Carolina which has lax adoption laws and will circumvent ICWA without a care in the world.

Oh, they are SOME adoption agency, alright. Shady as they come and as UNethical as possible. That is who Adeye is in bed with to "rescue" these embroyos that she refers to as her precious babies....embroyos frozen 10 years ago, of questionable quality and known to be a batch of significantly defective genetic material given that two others from the exact same batch have already resulted in genetic conditions in the children who were born.

Adeye wants them because Hasya isn't interesting enough for her anymore. She needs a new challenge to rescue. If a quad special needs pregnancy is how she ups the ante this time, exactly how does she plan to up the ante next time?

[dairyfreelife]

I don't mean it to be cold, it really bugs me because I do see cases like this as complete and utter hypocrisy. This woman is a real loon, adopting frozen embryos? Oh boy.

In some circumstances that could be an awesome thing to do but not in this case.

I know you didn't. I just think people forget it can come across that way. I never believed you really meant it to sound that way. I knew what you meant, no worries. Just wanted it out there since I have heard it meant that way for real a few times.

Adopting and implanting four embryos though...that's irresponsible and flat out stupid. I would not "adopt" embryos. The ones left are usually the ones not as viable as others and therefore were not used. MY risk of pregnancy is low as it is so I would want the embryos most likely to have a chance at making it, but that's just me.

I am with you on that. It does not make sense to me either...pro-lifers, I mean.

[Antimony]

I haven't been reading Adeye's blog for very long, really, and while I've gone back a bit, she just seems so strange. I think she is very much probably one of the better mothers snarked on here but holy savoir complex, batman. The video is very strange -- "desire for the orphan" seems like a very messed up phrase. It's all very good to want to adopt children, of course, all kinds, but it seems like she has a compulsion for it. I showed her blog to one of my...er..boytoys...one day and he felt she was sanctimonious and when I checked for updates, he asked, "Oh, is she showing how much of a better person she is than everybody else again?"

I also just don't know how she can do it, either. 9 children alone is difficult, I suspect. 9 children where many not only have special needs but are coming from different cultures (culture shock, attachment) seems even harder. The Ron Swanson quote comes to mind, "Don't half-ass two things, whole-ass one thing."

And here is the very, very, very bad part of me that is going to hell: I wonder if she's choosing such high risk embryos not out of the goodness of heart but if they fail (likely) or she refuses to do the procedure due to the clinic rules (also looking likely) she can come out as the godly savoir that just tried so hard to do everything she could and now she's both godly and maternal and in mourning and that is a whole lot of attention she could get from that. But I'd rather believe it's good intentioned religion taken to an extreme, which isn't really much better.

[scc12]

There is still a chance she could end up with 4,even if they implant only 2,since IVF is more likely to result in embryos splitting into identical twins.I was just watching a vid of where that happened recently.It went viral from the mother's reaction.

[happy atheist]

How does one pronounce Adeye? Addy? Ad Eye?

[DGayle]

DGayle, the aim is not just a healthy pregnancy, but healthy children. It is well established tha twins have higher risk of most complications, from cerebral palsy to learning disorders.

Part of a healthy pregnancy is doing what you can to lessen the risk of disabilities.

[DGayle]

BTW, her wonderful, Christian, ethical adoption agency? Nightlight Christian adoptions (the ONLY adoption agency that does snowflake adoptions as far as I know)?

Yeah, they were the agency that facilitated Veronica Brown's adoption and hundreds of other Indian children that their attorney has helped steal from tribes in the western states, bringing them primarily into South Carolina which has lax adoption laws and will circumvent ICWA without a care in the world.

I followed Veronica's case closely because she and my older daughter are only a few weeks apart in age. The supreme court determined that Dusten Brown did meet abandonment by failing to make any tries at asserting his rights or supporting Veronica during the first 90 days of her life, and that he knew where she was, so had no excuse. I'm not saying that agency never does wrong (I think a lot of them do a lot of bad shit), but in Veronica's case, Dusten met the threshold for abandonment. He should have tried sending even a few dollars, or filing for visitation, or something, but he chose not to. That was his mistake. I think he did come to love her, but that doesn't erase that he abandoned her, and that he didn't register with the tribe until later. Take it up with the supreme court if you think abandonment laws shouldn't apply to someone who didn't register with the tribe until several months later. Veronica is literally about 1% Cherokee, but about half Mexican. Why does 1% get to erase the rest of her?

If you want to blame anyone in that case, blame the deadbeat dad who knew where his baby and baby's mom were, and didn't even try to help support his child or see her or anything. How shitty of him to let his baby live in poverty instead of trying to help. That's not a dad.

I'm more concerned about the Utah agencies that encourage mothers to go there to give birth because fathers have no right, under any circumstances, to contest adoptions by the state's laws. If you want to adopt a baby and have a dad have no recourse, go there and get hooked up with a mother willing to screw the dad. Birth moms get a lot of money for adopting their babies out in that state. It's child-trafficking there.

[DGayle]

And here is the very, very, very bad part of me that is going to hell: I wonder if she's choosing such high risk embryos not out of the goodness of heart but if they fail (likely) or she refuses to do the procedure due to the clinic rules (also looking likely) she can come out as the godly savoir that just tried so hard to do everything she could and now she's both godly and maternal and in mourning and that is a whole lot of attention she could get from that. But I'd rather believe it's good intentioned religion taken to an extreme, which isn't really much better.

I can see this being the situation.

[chaotic life]

I do have an issue with the Supreme Court on the Brown case, but I'm not going to debate that here. Suffice it to say that as Veronica was being returned, it came to light that Nightlight and their adoption attorney (husband of the agency's owner) had another Indian child in SC baby Desirea, whom they violated ICPC and moved out of OK without authorization and falsified filings to the SC court to attempt to finalize her adoption before anyone knew. They had placed her with an older, mentally unstable couple with a history of abuse against their adult children. Even after it was uncovered and the desperate father finally found her, they continued to try to steal her. Were it not for the concerted efforts of the adult children, who read the media reports and connected the case to their parents, that child would have been stole from her family and tribe. Nightlight has a systematic method they instruct birth mothers to follow to establish child abandonment regardless of what the father does or does not do. They have a long pattern of predatory and unethical practices primarily in the Dakotas and OK on Indian children they traffic into SC. They also do these lovely embroyo adoptions, for which they charge their full adoption fees and the couple must still pay for IVF to get pregnant after paying Nightlight to broker their hand-picking their donated embroyo sand dressing it up as ulturistic and noble.

[docmom]

If you actually care about LIFE and not pregnancy, then implanting only two embryos and agreeing to selective reduction is the way to go. As many have pointed out higher order multiple pregnancies increase the risk to both mother and babies. First: "Even after ultrasound has shown heart movement in twins, spontaneous loss of one of the fetuses occurs in up to 20% of twin pregnancies. Spontaneous losses are even higher in triplet and quadruplet pregnancies. A fetal loss rate of 40% may occur in pregnancies with triplets or more." Second: "Fifteen percent to 20% of women with twin pregnancies will experience preeclampsia, and an even higher percentage is preeclamptic in triplet or high-order pregnancies." Finally, the average gestational age at delivery in a quadruplet pregnancy is 30 weeks- that means that many of these pregnancies end in the dangerously premature category. "As a result of prematurity, the risk for cerebral palsy is 4 times more likely to occur in twins. The rates are even greater for triplets and high-order multiple births."

So, by insisting on implanting all 4 embryos she risks losing the pregnancy or her own life and risking lifetime of disability for any surviving children. Doesn't sound like a culture of life to me.

[formergothardite]

How does one pronounce Adeye? Addy? Ad Eye?

According to this site, uh-day-uh.

http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronounce/adeye

I've been pronouncing it Ad-eye.

[happy atheist]

According to this site, uh-day-uh.

http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronounce/adeye

I've been pronouncing it Ad-eye.

Since I'm never going to meet this woman, I'm going to stick with Addy. :shifty-kitty:

[August]

Part of a healthy pregnancy is doing what you can to lessen the risk of disabilities.

True, but so many people think of getting through the pregnancy as the whole battle. They'll also claim that because x weeks is considered full term for a certain pregnancy, that that IS full term. No, it's just the average date of delivery, or the date when the risks of staying in outweigh the risks of being born. Those babies are still 30, or 34 or 36 weeks gestation, and have the issues of preterm babies.

Selective reduction is not a magical fix. Reducing a triplet pregnancy to twins doesn't reduce the risks to twin risks. It is far better to not conceive multiples in the first place, which involves not transferring two or more to a hyper fertile woman like Adeye.

[Joan of Snarc]

If you actually care about LIFE and not pregnancy, then implanting only two embryos and agreeing to selective reduction is the way to go. As many have pointed out higher order multiple pregnancies increase the risk to both mother and babies. First: "Even after ultrasound has shown heart movement in twins, spontaneous loss of one of the fetuses occurs in up to 20% of twin pregnancies. Spontaneous losses are even higher in triplet and quadruplet pregnancies. A fetal loss rate of 40% may occur in pregnancies with triplets or more." Second: "Fifteen percent to 20% of women with twin pregnancies will experience preeclampsia, and an even higher percentage is preeclamptic in triplet or high-order pregnancies." Finally, the average gestational age at delivery in a quadruplet pregnancy is 30 weeks- that means that many of these pregnancies end in the dangerously premature category. "As a result of prematurity, the risk for cerebral palsy is 4 times more likely to occur in twins. The rates are even greater for triplets and high-order multiple births."

So, by insisting on implanting all 4 embryos she risks losing the pregnancy or her own life and risking lifetime of disability for any surviving children. Doesn't sound like a culture of life to me.

Hers isn't a culture of life; it's a culture of magic. As in, "Jesus will magically protect this pregnancy of mine. Science, probability and statistics be damned; I'm gonna follow the magic voices in my head and do what I want. It'll work out great because Jesus and I'll get lots of glory. Or it will work out poorly because Jesus and I can say I tried. I'll make use of science all along the way but still credit magic for whatever happens."

:roll:

She did a video on how to pronounce her name and said it's "Uh-day-uh."

[DGayle]

I do have an issue with the Supreme Court on the Brown case, but I'm not going to debate that here. Suffice it to say that as Veronica was being returned, it came to light that Nightlight and their adoption attorney (husband of the agency's owner) had another Indian child in SC baby Desirea, whom they violated ICPC and moved out of OK without authorization and falsified filings to the SC court to attempt to finalize her adoption before anyone knew. They had placed her with an older, mentally unstable couple with a history of abuse against their adult children. Even after it was uncovered and the desperate father finally found her, they continued to try to steal her. Were it not for the concerted efforts of the adult children, who read the media reports and connected the case to their parents, that child would have been stole from her family and tribe. Nightlight has a systematic method they instruct birth mothers to follow to establish child abandonment regardless of what the father does or does not do. They have a long pattern of predatory and unethical practices primarily in the Dakotas and OK on Indian children they traffic into SC. They also do these lovely embroyo adoptions, for which they charge their full adoption fees and the couple must still pay for IVF to get pregnant after paying Nightlight to broker their hand-picking their donated embroyo sand dressing it up as ulturistic and noble.

Desirai was given up so soon after birth that the father had no chance to assert his right (it was soon enough that he wouldn't have had any reason to know she had definitely been born). Dusten knew Veronica had been born, and made no attempts to support her at all. That's the huge difference there. One had the chance and did nothing. The other didn't even know the birth had happened yet.

The court also gave custody of Desirai not to her non-Indian father, but to the tribe. This says that the tribe's rights to the kids trumps the rights of non-Indian parents.

The adoption system needs a major overhaul. I don't know how it can be done though, since private agencies have every incentive to toss kids to whoever will pay, even if it means screwing clueless fathers, but if it's left to the states, politicians aren't exactly known for making decisions that don't benefit them somehow. But kids shouldn't be left in the foster system for years and years if their mothers genuinely don't want to raise them. There's a case in the midwest right now where a kid was adopted, and 8 years or so later, a court ordered her to go back to the dad who abandoned her before he was sent to jail for many years. It's inconsistent. If that guy could change his mind so many years later with a major criminal record, Dusten should have been able to change his mind. But at the same time, Dusten did a major wrong by not even trying to provide for Veronica long enough to establish abandonment. All these different state laws make it all a clusterfuck.

I think maybe, at the least, adoption should be a federal issue. The people paying the biggest prices are the kids who get jerked from one home to another and back and then back again.

[DGayle]

True, but so many people think of getting through the pregnancy as the whole battle. They'll also claim that because x weeks is considered full term for a certain pregnancy, that that IS full term. No, it's just the average date of delivery, or the date when the risks of staying in outweigh the risks of being born. Those babies are still 30, or 34 or 36 weeks gestation, and have the issues of preterm babies.

Selective reduction is not a magical fix. Reducing a triplet pregnancy to twins doesn't reduce the risks to twin risks. It is far better to not conceive multiples in the first place, which involves not transferring two or more to a hyper fertile woman like Adeye.

In my first due date club, a woman had an elective c-section at 39 weeks, and her baby was born with lungs that weren't yet mature, and so off to the NICU. She was surprised to find out that 37 weeks on is only full term is labor happens spontaneously.

Do you think Adeye thinks Octomom did a great think having a dozen transferred and giving birth to a little of 8? That doctor lost his license and has been denied licensing in other stated because what he agreed to do was too dangerous. Adeye is demanding doctors intentionally put her in a situation with a high chance of a bad outcome when it's not needed to preserve her life. This isn't like a doctor refusing to prescribe birth control on moral grounds. This is doctors trying to prevent a medically dangerous situation from happening in the first place. Good for them.

[Kitty Luna]

Forgive my ignorance -- but wouldn't the fertility clinic stop seeing her in any case, once the embryos were implanted and seen to be doing well? I would think the Doctors in their office aren't the same ones who she would see for regular prenatal care and delivery - even if she did have high order multiples.

Depends on the practice. I worked at a university hospital where all OB/GYN services were under the umbrella of one practice. Fertility to reproductive cancers all in one very large and three smaller clinics. When you sign up to go through the IVF there, you can continue all your OB/GYN needs within the practice. Some women drove for hours just for the fertility clinic and once pregnant used a local doc, but you could continue your care in one practice if you elected to. The OB in charge of the IVF facility did general reproductive endocrinology as well, so he did see patients other than the ones he was implanting.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Looks like Adeye's embryo transfer is temporarily on hold because the big bad mean clinic makes you sign a waiver saying that unless they agree to selective abortion in the event that more than two embryos take, they won't implant more than two embryos.

BUT, all four embryos must be unfrozen at once because of how they were frozen. And since Adeye believes these embryos are totally real people and have been longing for a family for a decade (which despite being medically impossible...), she can't unfreeze them all and then only implant two. So the transfer is now on hold while they wait for Jesus to clear obstacles try to find some shady-ass clinic to go ahead and do the transfer for all four embryos at once. Which I'm sure they will do after much praying.

All I can muster up is "for fuck's sake."

nogreaterjoymom.com/2014/10/fighting-for-life.html

Came in here wondering if there would be a thread on this, happy to see that of course there is!

I'm surprised she's not trying to recruit some other "adoptive family" to implant two of these embryos at the same time as she does. That would solve her "problem" easily, wouldn't it? Unfreeze all four, Adeye gets two, the other woman gets two. Bam. Solved.

Though in the case that she did that, I wonder how she'd feel if none of hers "took" and the other woman ended up with babies...

My ignorant heathen question is, though... if God is the Author of all this and knows who lives and who dies, who's to say that he didn't make this clinic have the rules it does, and is thus Authoring this setback and telling Adeye that guess what, you gotta pick two? But no. It's never that way. God always magically wants what the OP wants and any setbacks are due to dark forces. Convenient how that works out, eh? :roll:

I think I'm still stuck on the adamant refusal to see this as a sign of God's will. God doesn't want you to have the embryos implanted after He told you to do it via prayer you decided to pursue this harebrained idea, therefore you got given this out - one that lets you pretend to be a martyr. But no, this is the work of THE ENEMY! And Evil Liberals! And stuff! And you're going to take the persecution complex even further off the damn cliff.

I.e. THIS. Just... if God is Authoring, he has to have Authored this setback, no?

So... anyone know who "Astrin" from the comments is? What she posted about? (Her comment was deleted and only referenced by Adeye in its place.)

Part of a healthy pregnancy is doing what you can to lessen the risk of disabilities.

Honestly, with Adeye it seems she FETISHIZES disability. She seems extra jazzed that the embryos quite probably have disabilities, because wow, more noble that way, or something.

I just don't get it.

[mystikchick17]

Came in here wondering if there would be a thread on this, happy to see that of course there is!

I'm surprised she's not trying to recruit some other "adoptive family" to implant two of these embryos at the same time as she does. That would solve her "problem" easily, wouldn't it? Unfreeze all four, Adeye gets two, the other woman gets two. Bam. Solved.

Though in the case that she did that, I wonder how she'd feel if none of hers "took" and the other woman ended up with babies...

My ignorant heathen question is, though... if God is the Author of all this and knows who lives and who dies, who's to say that he didn't make this clinic have the rules it does, and is thus Authoring this setback and telling Adeye that guess what, you gotta pick two? But no. It's never that way. God always magically wants what the OP wants and any setbacks are due to dark forces. Convenient how that works out, eh? :roll:

I.e. THIS. Just... if God is Authoring, he has to have Authored this setback, no?

So... anyone know who "Astrin" from the comments is? What she posted about? (Her comment was deleted and only referenced by Adeye in its place.)

Honestly, with Adeye it seems she FETISHIZES disability. She seems extra jazzed that the embryos quite probably have disabilities, because wow, more noble that way, or something.

I just don't get it.

Great minds and all that ;)

I suspect, given Adeye's reference to a friend who experienced tragedy, that Astrin's comments related to the mother with multiple special needs adoptees in PA (I think) who had one of the kids die by accidental drowning in the tub. He was unsupervised for moments, but that's all it took. He may even have come from Pleven, like Hasya. Isn't there a thread on the family somewhere here?

And I think for Adeye, there's more glory in showing how much she cares for the severely disabled, since these kids (and embryos) would otherwise be "discarded" - shut away in an institution forever (like Hailee and Hasya) or literally thrown out (like the embryos). She's extra-Godly for taking on the lowliest of the low, in her minds, the ones society REALLY doesn't care for. It's a double-win: orphans and disabilities. It's gross.

[lawlifelgbt]

I have a seminar now at school that's on assisted reproduction issues. We're about to discuss embryo adoption, esp. by fundie Christians. Referred my prof to this and to the other Adeye thread. Hi, Prof. C!

[browncoatslytherin]

yay! we'd love to hear any opinion, if the esteemed prof cares to weigh in on this. :) if not, enjoy the reading!

[BeaSnarky]

OK - so, I will really show my cynicism here with Adeye -

Something deep inside of me with this whole issue seems to scream that this whole thing is all in her head. It is leading to these great platforms for her to "preach" and "fund raise" and that truly troubles me.

I'm not doubting that you can adopt this way, not at all.

What is bothering me is that she's using it as such a platform...Pro-life..these babeeez deserve a chance...I'm meant to be their momma...

I mean, c'mon man....really?

I just can't help but thing this whole thing is made up, and that "sadly, none of the babies implanted" or "we lost the pregnancy" when in fact, she's making the whole thing up.

Am I alone in this?

Sigh. Doubting Bea is Doubting.

[browncoatslytherin]

OK - so, I will really show my cynicism here with Adeye -

Something deep inside of me with this whole issue seems to scream that this whole thing is all in her head. It is leading to these great platforms for her to "preach" and "fund raise" and that truly troubles me.

I'm not doubting that you can adopt this way, not at all.

What is bothering me is that she's using it as such a platform...Pro-life..these babeeez deserve a chance...I'm meant to be their momma...

I mean, c'mon man....really?

I just can't help but thing this whole thing is made up, and that "sadly, none of the babies implanted" or "we lost the pregnancy" when in fact, she's making the whole thing up.

Am I alone in this?

Sigh. Doubting Bea is Doubting.

not at all. this is the way that i'm leaning right now as, honestly, i've not seen proof yet that these embroyos exist, or that if they do that she "adopted" them. the form that she quoted is likely easily found on a clinic's website or she could have mailed to her in the interest of setting up an initial appointment (that she's not obligated to follow through on going to).

i postulate that her special needs kids are racking up bills she didn't bargain on so she's cooked something up in her delusional mind that will help her fundraise money to help. of course, there will need to be an end at some point - either they "won't take" or she'll miscarry after they take...which honestly would string this along the longest. but perhaps she's using this issue in order to string it out even further than it normally would.

i dunno, but that's the impression that i get. so you aren't alone, bea.

[BeaSnarky]

not at all. this is the way that i'm leaning right now as, honestly, i've not seen proof yet that these embroyos exist, or that if they do that she "adopted" them. the form that she quoted is likely easily found on a clinic's website or she could have mailed to her in the interest of setting up an initial appointment (that she's not obligated to follow through on going to).

i postulate that her special needs kids are racking up bills she didn't bargain on so she's cooked something up in her delusional mind that will help her fundraise money to help. of course, there will need to be an end at some point - either they "won't take" or she'll miscarry after they take...which honestly would string this along the longest. but perhaps she's using this issue in order to string it out even further than it normally would.

i dunno, but that's the impression that i get. so you aren't alone, bea.

Indeed...I mean, there are just too many cues here for me to miss - We got a house! Oh wait, nevermind...we didn't get a house. She's got to be paying for Haven's school - it has to be a private school. Her littles with Downs are racking up bills; Hasya is constantly racking up bills. And then suddenly, BOOM - we are adopting 4 embryos! We prayed on it! We will allow you to help fund us! Praise JEEBUS! And then I look at they have raised $2400 without question as to no proof that she's even adopting?

No.

I follow other fundie adoption Mommas - I've seen pictures of the babies, and LOAs and travel documents, and I've even seen embryo adoption from folks - there are logical progression of steps...which I'm just not seeing here. It concenrs me.

And you know, if this doesn't happen, or if she can't find a fertility agency to implant, then she better give back that $2400. But we all know it won't go down that way.