Laura Ingalls Wilder and submission

[Trynn]

I liked Caddie Woodlawn until she realized that she needed to stop being a tomboy and enjoy sitting around in big dresses. Granted, I haven't read it in a long time, but that's the message I got as a kid.

Here's a fun website about why lots of popular books--Narnia, Elsie, Grandma's Attic, Tolkien, Little House, Anne, Mandie, etc--are evil. keepersofthefaith.com/category/BookReviews.html I can't imagine there are any books that these people would let their kids read. Personally, I'd be more worried about the racism in the Little House books, but that doesn't get a mention.

Interesting. Usually those against Elsie Dinsmore are against her because of her father's brutal treatment of her, yet thats not even addressed. Odd that even fundies dislike Elsie. I thought they'd be the ones pushing her books.

[tabitha2]

Not then.Childhood or what their was of it was short esp. for poor families.Remember she also was a trained teacher living away home and working at a dress makers at seventeen and would marry not long after.

[VVV]

Laura Ingalls Wilder married at 18--her parents had asked her to wait until then. I believe both of her parents were in their twenties when they got married.

[mnb357]

VVV,

I seem to recall reading something Laura wrote about her being in a long line of women in the family to marry at age 18, so I'm pretty sure her mother was 18 when she married Charles as well. In fact, there were a couple of marriages within the Quiner/Ingalls family, and Laura had what are called "double cousins." (Not unusual in those days, though.) Funny, when I read the "Little House Books," I always thought of them as having an underlying feminist tone...as a kid when I read the books, Laura's antics inspired me to be a bit more feisty.

[tabitha2]

She was 20 actually.Charles Ingalls was 24.

[simplysweet]

I LOVED Caddie Woodlawn!

I live in Caddie Woodlawn's "hometown - in fact, it is Caddie Woodlawn days soon!!!!

[tabitha2]

Caddy,well, who she was based on and Laura actually lived in adjacent counties in roughly the same period.Pretty cool to think they could have met in passing as children or at least their families might have.

[buddingmedievalist]

I liked Caddie Woodlawn until she realized that she needed to stop being a tomboy and enjoy sitting around in big dresses. Granted, I haven't read it in a long time, but that's the message I got as a kid.

Here's a fun website about why lots of popular books--Narnia, Elsie, Grandma's Attic, Tolkien, Little House, Anne, Mandie, etc--are evil. keepersofthefaith.com/category/BookReviews.html I can't imagine there are any books that these people would let their kids read. Personally, I'd be more worried about the racism in the Little House books, but that doesn't get a mention.

That IS a fun website! I was needing a good dose of crazy in my day :)

[Hane]

Here's a fun website about why lots of popular books--Narnia, Elsie, Grandma's Attic, Tolkien, Little House, Anne, Mandie, etc--are evil. keepersofthefaith.com/category/BookReviews.html I can't imagine there are any books that these people would let their kids read. Personally, I'd be more worried about the racism in the Little House books, but that doesn't get a mention.

The very first "review" I read there--of Louisa May Alcott--contained out and out lies. It said that her family was "heavily influenced by Freemasonry." In fact, she and her family were Unitarians. (OT grrrr: "Christians" of keepersofthefaith's ilk do everything they can to marginalize my religion [the UU church] and its publishing arm, Beacon Press--when, in fact, Unitarianism was a major philosophical and philanthropic force in the 19th century.)

The site excoriated L. M. Montgomery for not being Christian enough, or the "right" kind of Christian, despite her thinking deeply about religious matters and being married to a Presbyterian preacher. Let's forget the fact that, in the Anne books, darn near everyone is Presbyterian and a regular churchgoer.

[Buzzard]

Hallmark channel has been running the little house series pretty much non stop over the past few weeks. I havent read the books in decades, but put about 10 episodes on my DVR from this past sunday. I couldnt sleep last night and watched a bunch (and actually intended to post)...

As I watched it the underlying tones are so SMACK YOU IN THE FACE that I dont think the series would stand a chance today. Its soooo preachy. That being said, theres no way in hell the Duggars would let their kids watch the series, even as smarmy as it is. The affection, independant women (gasp working out of the home!), unmarried women living alone (gasp!) and all that crap!

[Hisey]

The fundies certainly wouldn't have approved of 5-year old Laura's attitude when she was punished. Like many people back then, the Ingalls used corporal punishment, at least when their kids were young.

The first book tells of when Laura was whipped for hitting Mary. Afterwards, Laura sulks and, IIRC, plots revenge. She does NOT:

pray

thank her parents for hitting her

express any remorse

quote Bible verses, or

experience a "release of guilt and tension."

Very different from a fundie child, who is either forced to do such things, or pretends to.

[ladypuglover]

I live in Caddie Woodlawn's "hometown - in fact, it is Caddie Woodlawn days soon!!!!

I am so jealous!! If you go please post pics and what there was to see there. I love me some history in all its forms.

[ladypuglover]

VVV,

I seem to recall reading something Laura wrote about her being in a long line of women in the family to marry at age 18, so I'm pretty sure her mother was 18 when she married Charles as well. In fact, there were a couple of marriages within the Quiner/Ingalls family, and Laura had what are called "double cousins." (Not unusual in those days, though.) Funny, when I read the "Little House Books," I always thought of them as having an underlying feminist tone...as a kid when I read the books, Laura's antics inspired me to be a bit more feisty.

On my mother's father side.... well lets just say I am my own cousin but also my own double cousin. We had siblings marry siblings and then 2 generations later those double cousins married each other! :shock: Before you all go that 'splains Lucy, that was in the early 1800's, so there has been some other genes added to the pool and some even added from outside the family! :lol:

[Letgo]

I loved the Little House books! I have read and reread them more than anything else. I still love them. But the comment about those books being banned in the Maxwell family makes me wonder, just what would pass muster for them? I know they recently mentioned reading a book on html, but would ANY novel, other than the Sarah's books, be okay? I can't think of anything sufficiently obedient...maybe Swiss Family Robinson would work? It has been years since I read it, but I think the sons were all respectful, obedient, and kind, as I recall. Have they ever mentioned reading for pleasure on their blog? Is there such a thing in Maxwell World?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

From what we've seen of them talking about reading in the various Corners, the Maxwells don't want any books where either (1) things which are "untrue" are presented straight, or (2) kids engage behavior that the Maxwells don't want their kids even knowing about, much less engaging in (which is pretty much all bad behavior).

"Untrue" of course means "not in line with the Maxwells' belief system." So for instance they objected to a book where one kid told another that you need to be given a spanking for each year on your birthday, because that's not true. Jack Frost is not okay because he's not real. From this, from some other discussion about their non-engagement with world news and from a story about them slipping up and watching a documentary set in a foreign country, we also know that "untrue" includes all non-Christian religion. I'm not sure if a critical piece ("can you believe this evilness?") would be okay, but I suspect not, because Steve was very upset at the documentary for even just mentioning "this guy goes to the temple before setting out on the journey..." in a very factual non-committal "this is what this guy happens to believe, we're not endorsing it" sense. He doesn't want his kids to know anything about the other beliefs to even give them a spare thought.

Sarah's books occasionally have the kids not wanting the proper thing, or not being grateful enough to each other, etc, but they ALWAYS come around, and it's dwelled on. Plus the initial stuff isn't all that out there. Steve objected about some other kids' book he let them read where one kid hit another in the nose, even though the behavior was criticized, because it put that image - the idea that such a thing is possible - into the kids' heads.

Keep in mind, this is the same guy who whites out secular lyrics of purely innocent traditional songs like "Row Your Boat" and "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" because they're not religious and the kids don't need such purposeless twaddle rolling around in their minds.

[Rachel333]

I know someone who had a family where three siblings married three siblings from another family. My great-grandmother and her brother also married siblings.

Regarding Alcott, I'm guessing the stuff about Freemasonry comes from the fact that her father opened this school: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Sch ... ton_(1830s) It was located in a Masonic temple. They probably twisted that, since I can't figure out where else it would come from.

[ladypuglover]

From what we've seen of them talking about reading in the various Corners, the Maxwells don't want any books where either (1) things which are "untrue" are presented straight, or (2) kids engage behavior that the Maxwells don't want their kids even knowing about, much less engaging in (which is pretty much all bad behavior).

"Untrue" of course means "not in line with the Maxwells' belief system." So for instance they objected to a book where one kid told another that you need to be given a spanking for each year on your birthday, because that's not true. Jack Frost is not okay because he's not real. From this, from some other discussion about their non-engagement with world news and from a story about them slipping up and watching a documentary set in a foreign country, we also know that "untrue" includes all non-Christian religion. I'm not sure if a critical piece ("can you believe this evilness?") would be okay, but I suspect not, because Steve was very upset at the documentary for even just mentioning "this guy goes to the temple before setting out on the journey..." in a very factual non-committal "this is what this guy happens to believe, we're not endorsing it" sense. He doesn't want his kids to know anything about the other beliefs to even give them a spare thought.

Sarah's books occasionally have the kids not wanting the proper thing, or not being grateful enough to each other, etc, but they ALWAYS come around, and it's dwelled on. Plus the initial stuff isn't all that out there. Steve objected about some other kids' book he let them read where one kid hit another in the nose, even though the behavior was criticized, because it put that image - the idea that such a thing is possible - into the kids' heads.

Keep in mind, this is the same guy who whites out secular lyrics of purely innocent traditional songs like "Row Your Boat" and "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" because they're not religious and the kids don't need such purposeless twaddle rolling around in their minds.

Then he would hate my version of twinkle, twinkle little star, did you see who stole our car? Up above the night sky, like a little spy did you see that bad guy? Twinkle, twinkle little star, did you see who stole our car?

I won't say the rst of the songs I taught my kids but not a single song was ever sung right and it always bit me in the butt when my kids came home from kindergarten saying mommy, you don't know the songs right. Right or better who is to say?

[ADoyle90815]

I know someone who had a family where three siblings married three siblings from another family. My great-grandmother and her brother also married siblings.

Regarding Alcott, I'm guessing the stuff about Freemasonry comes from the fact that her father opened this school: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Sch ... ton_(1830s) It was located in a Masonic temple. They probably twisted that, since I can't figure out where else it would come from.

My dad's side of the family had 2 brothers from one family marrying 2 sisters from another family. One of those sibling couples is one set of my great-grandparents. I also loved the Little House series of books, as well as the Anne of Green Gables series.

[Mommy22alyns]

This article plus some of their others will be interesting reading:

http://www.keepersofthefaith.com/catego ... irieSeries

ETA: Ooops, sorry, I see it was already linked! :oops:

[dawn9476]

Now that I have thought about it, the fact that Charles and Caroline made Laura wait till she was 18 was probably unheard of back in those days. At least among poor families like theirs. Lots of parents back then let their daughters get married at 16 or 17 because it meant one less mouth for them to feed.

[Kitty]

Now that I have thought about it, the fact that Charles and Caroline made Laura wait till she was 18 was probably unheard of back in those days. At least among poor families like theirs. Lots of parents back then let their daughters get married at 16 or 17 because it meant one less mouth for them to feed.

Actually, it was rich families who married their daughters off early- poor families kept their daughters around as long as possible, because they needed the help around the house. By the time Laura married, Caroline had had two more daughters (and a son, but he died in infancy), and they were still quite young when Laura left home. Do you really think that if Laura was married off at 16, her family would have been better off for it?

[starfish]

LadyPuglover, I join you in being a fan of young adult fiction! Some great writers write in that genre.

[sacrilicious]

I need to read these books again. It's been probably 25 years since I've read them. Damn.

As I watched it the underlying tones are so SMACK YOU IN THE FACE that I dont think the series would stand a chance today. Its soooo preachy. That being said, theres no way in hell the Duggars would let their kids watch the series, even as smarmy as it is. The affection, independant women (gasp working out of the home!), unmarried women living alone (gasp!) and all that crap!

From what I remember, you're right the tv show was waaaay preachier than the books. I remember when I was a kid my mom and I were watching one of the Christmas episodes that was based on a scene from the book (#2 I think?) where the family was far from civilization and there was a terrible snow storm and they didn't think Santa was going to be able to come. As it turns out Charles' friend went out to see them and brought gifts for the kids "from Santa." Well at the end of the tv episode Laura's voice over was saying how the gifts weren't really all that important and that they were just happy to be able to be with their family...blah, blah, blah. My mom said something to the effect that kids weren't so spoiled back then, but I distinctly remembered from the books that the kids were pretty focused on the presents. :lol:

[tabitha2]

You know what I believe the 5 little peppers or maybe Pollyanna make the cut for approved books for these families.But if you want a charming read 'All of a Kind' series,often called the Jewish 'Little Women'.At the turn of the century five little Jewish sisters live and make mischief in a Brooklyn Tenement with lots of Jewish history and culture thrown in.Obscure but a classic.

[Mommy22alyns]

You know what I believe the 5 little peppers or maybe Pollyanna make the cut for approved books for these families.But if you want a charming read 'All of a Kind' series,often called the Jewish 'Little Women'.At the turn of the century five little Jewish sisters live and make mischief in a Brooklyn Tenement with lots of Jewish history and culture thrown in.Obscure but a classic.

Love, love, love these books!