Throwback Bates Pics - Frumperific

[nokidsmom]

I do agree that Kelly and Gil are more likable that JimBob and Michelle. Now- I am not sure if they just really are a tiny bit nicer or if they just have more life experience and self awareness.

I will say that Kelly is the only fundie mom I have ever seen admit that their rules were too stringent- that they re-evaluated what didn't work for their family and made changes.

It gives me more hope that their own kids will be able to make their own standards for dress, education, etc. once they are out of the Bates house and not feel completely guilty about it.

I think we will see more of the Bates kids get closer to mainstream as they marry out of the family and move away. The Duggars will just get more insular and stranger as they all live in the same town. I think Josh got out, but no way JB and Michelle are letting that happen again.

Re: the bold, they may truly be nicer (I really don't know) but I always felt Kelly is more savvy in how she presents her family via her blog as well. While I give them credit for admitting mistakes and they do seem to have learned from some of them (such as in courtship rules) there's always a little question in my mind as far as how much of it is also "presentation" to their fans as well. It still boils down to Kelly having the education and life experience to be able to do that, something that she has denied to her children. The fact that she has allowed her daughters to work outside the home albeit in fundie approved occupations still doesn't change that. That Erin went to an unaccredited college when she had, per Kelly herself I think, a shot at a real university, still doesn't change that. That they relaxed their courtship rules after Zach's first courtship flamed out, still doesn't change the fact that they are not allowing their children to normally date, something that both she and Gil did. That they might allow their children more leeway compared to the Duggars doesn't change that they repeatedly denied their children choices and opportunities.

As far as the kids going more mainstream, Kelly has said that she would love them but she hasn't been tested yet. Let's see how she feels a few years down the road and with more kids out of the house. That's not to say she wouldn't love them but she may find herself disappointed and unhappy with their choices anyway.

[RosyDaisy]

Jana worked as a doula, Jill as a midwife, and Jinger as a photographer. So, both families have daughters that worked. Both families spew the same hateful shit.

[lilith]

Jana worked as a doula, Jill as a midwife, and Jinger as a photographer. So, both families have daughters that worked. Both families spew the same hateful shit.

All the Duggar kids work performing on and promoting their reality television program. They also work as speakers/performers at churches and political events and the older girls assisted a ghost writer and promoted their book. They most certainly work outside the home, and from a very young age.

[formergothardite]

I wonder if the Bates would allow a daughter to choose a spouse like Zach did. Do you really think they would be okay with the idea of their daughter "dating with a purpose" a man she met while not at a religious event and not chaperoned? The jobs they allow the daughters to do really aren't that different than the jobs the Duggars let their daughters do. But how would either family react to a daughter who wanted to go to a real college and have a non-Gothard approved career?

[HereticHick]

I think there is a big difference between someone like Alyssa being employed outside the home by a non-family Member (a florist) and Duggarlings promoting their family image. When the Duggars speak/play screechy violins/write books, their parents are still their boss.

Do we have any evidence that Jinger has ever earned money as a photographer? And that she has been allowed to do so unchaperoned by a sibling?

[formergothardite]

Floral design is actually a very Gothard approved job. At one point ATI offered classes so that young women could go work as a florist. The Bates still only allow their daughters to do Gothard approved things. I could see the Duggars allowing a daughter to be a florist if one of them had the skill and desire What sort of florist is Alyssa working for? I am wondering if it is run by someone the family knows.

[nokidsmom]

I wonder if the Bates would allow a daughter to choose a spouse like Zach did. Do you really think they would be okay with the idea of their daughter "dating with a purpose" a man she met while not at a religious event and not chaperoned?

Around the time of Zach's wedding, there was a poster here who stated he knew the family and said that Kelly initially was not happy about Zach and Whit at all but relented when Whit went more fundie. Now I usually take this type of "inside information" with a grain of salt but at the same time if this was true (and it's very possible IMHO) then I think we have our answer about how the Bates feel about their kids meeting potential spouses unchaperoned and outside of approved events / venues. And because Whit went more fundie, thereby making her more acceptable to Kelly and Gil, it raises questions to me about how Kelly is really going to feel when / if any of their kids decide to go more mainstream even after marrying and leaving the home. I don't think she's going to like it but whether she and Gil will step back and let things be or pressure / guilt any kids to come back to the fold, well that remains to be seen. If we see that at all. Like I said, Kelly seems to know how to present her family better to their fans and make them look less extreme.

But how would either family react to a daughter who wanted to go to a real college and have a non-Gothard approved career?

IMHO, the answer will be "no, you can't go" and "you can't do that" but it will be couched in terms of counseling / pressuring same daughter to a more approved education / career, all the while making it look like her choice. Maybe another JTTH thrown in.

[formergothardite]

I think that even the Duggars are smart enough to at least put on a good show of "accepting" an adult child who chose to become more mainstream. I don't think we would see the Duggars openly bashing this child, but privately I bet they would do anything they could to get them back in the fold.

[acat7]

Floral design is actually a very Gothard approved job. At one point ATI offered classes so that young women could go work as a florist. The Bates still only allow their daughters to do Gothard approved things. I could see the Duggars allowing a daughter to be a florist if one of them had the skill and desire What sort of florist is Alyssa working for? I am wondering if it is run by someone the family knows.

Haha okay this is exactly how it would go for the Duggars.

J'Slave: Momma and Daddy, I would really love to be a florist. I think I have an eye for color and would love to make beautiful arrangements for some sweet friends when they marry.

Boob: Well (distressed face) Momma and I will have to talk about this.

Three days later

Boob: All kids come down stairs!

Boob (when kids arrive): Hey guys. Momma and I were talking after J'Slave shared her heart with us the other day and told us she's interested in learning some flower skills. So I called up my friend (insert small business owner JDoofus hasnt talked to since high school) and he agreed to have us come in and show us the ropes.

The entire Duggar family, plus TV crew, show up to a flower shop. Meanwhile the business owner has to practically close down for the day because of all the chaos.

Boob TH at flower shop: Michelle and I really like exposing our kids to skils they can use later in life. So we thought it would be really fun to teach them all about being a florist. We're really grateful that _____ was willing to share this skill with us.

Small owner: Jim Bob called me up and asked if he can bring the kids in here. It's definitely slowing things down but being able to share our skills with others is really special.

J'Slaves make some bouquets. Josie runs around. Howlers rip up flowers.

That would be what happened if a Duggar wanted to be a florist, even though its "Gothard approved". No way would Jim Bob let his daughters work for someone else where they had to clock in and receive a wage. The only way midwifery became a thing was because its a shadow program, Jill could likely take off whenever, and I'm fairly positive she wasn't paid.

[formergothardite]

I think that JB and Michelle would make two of them do it and probably have it brought up on the show, but I do think it would be allowed. Especially now that the children are getting older and there will be no more babies.

Gil is on the board of directors of IBLP, an organization that is trying desperately to not look like a creepy cult, he and Kelly know how to put on a good show. They know exactly how to make it appear they give their children freedom without actually having to do it. Gil and Kelly are much more media savvy than JB and Michelle.

[nokidsmom]

I think that even the Duggars are smart enough to at least put on a good show of "accepting" an adult child who chose to become more mainstream. I don't think we would see the Duggars openly bashing this child, but privately I bet they would do anything they could to get them back in the fold.

I agree that they would make themselves appear "accepting" publicly but behind closed doors I can see hell (no pun intended) break loose. I can see the family pulling out all stops to bring the errant child back.

[pega127]

All the Duggar kids work performing on and promoting their reality television program. They also work as speakers/performers at churches and political events and the older girls assisted a ghost writer and promoted their book. They most certainly work outside the home, and from a very young age.

They work "outside" the home; but with chaperones and restrictions. Jana and Jill worked as a pair; then added Jinger to their work (photography births her sister's attended). The family performs together, four girls wrote the book and most of the family was on the promotion tour with them. Yes, they work; but not on their own or for a secular entity.

[acat7]

I think that JB and Michelle would make two of them do it and probably have it brought up on the show, but I do think it would be allowed. Especially now that the children are getting older and there will be no more babies.

Gil is on the board of directors of IBLP, an organization that is trying desperately to not look like a creepy cult, he and Kelly know how to put on a good show. They know exactly how to make it appear they give their children freedom without actually having to do it. Gil and Kelly are much more media savvy than JB and Michelle.

I think Gil and Kelly are just struggling for money so they have no choice. I don't think theyre awesome for allowing the Gothard approved careers. I think they cannot financially support their family without having the kids work. If given the resources that the Duggars have, they would be the same way IMO.

[formergothardite]

I agree that they would make themselves appear "accepting" publicly but behind closed doors I can see hell (no pun intended) break loose. I can see the family pulling out all stops to bring the errant child back.

I see the Bates doing the same thing. I just don't think that Gil and Kelly are more open and accepting than the Duggars. Lack of money might have forced them to allow the daughters to work for other people without a sibling chaperone, but I bet the Duggars would be the same without reality TV.

[nokidsmom]

I see the Bates doing the same thing. I just don't think that Gil and Kelly are more open and accepting than the Duggars. Lack of money might have forced them to allow the daughters to work for other people without a sibling chaperone, but I bet the Duggars would be the same without reality TV.

Gil, being on the IBLP board, I would think could enlist the help of lot of ATI big shots to help bring any kid back into the fold.

I always felt the girls were "allowed" to work because of the very same reason they rely on Lawson. They needed the money.

[FreeHannie!]

I'd like the Bates more if they had of let Erin take that full ride she got to the University of TN.

[RosyDaisy]

Think of the life they could've had if Gil had kept his job at Nabisco. That right there tells me all I need to know. The Bates would do anything for the privilege of kissing Gothard's ass including mooching off their kids. Now that Gothard has stepped down and ATI/IBLP has been suffering from financial problems, the Basses probably aren't the only ones suffering financially.

[HereticHick]

It may very well be that Bates daughters work out of financial necessity. I apologize for not adequately conveying my main point, however. Yes, Alyssa worked in a Gothard-approved job (florist). What is important to me is that she experienced having a boss not related to her. [Which is not the Gothard ideal--in Gothard nirvana, everyone would have their own home-based business. No one would be supervised by a non-family member--especially not a female!]. I think the Duggar spawn would benefit **enormously** by having to answer to someone other that a Duggar. Especially in a job with set hours, so if they showed up too often on "Duggar Time" their undisciplined asses might get fired.

[Miggy]

I'm suddenly feeling a weird urge to find and try on a frumper, just to see how I look.

I actually own several! I hate trousers and always wear either dresses or skirts/blouses. My frumpers are really comfortable. The material is really soft and I find they just float around me instead of pulling or restricting movement. I wear them around the house, especially when doing housework because the are so comfy. Of course I have no modesty so in summer I don't wear anything underneath. It's really cool because the material doesn't cling to you anywhere. In winter I wear it more like a fundy with layers of thermals and a shirt. The material also isn't very fundy as I buy them from an online goth shop.

[RosyDaisy]

The Duggar ladies worked and were answerable to a non-male non-family supervisor.

[CorruptionInc.]

In 2008 I certainly wasn't dressing like that!!! You should've seen my short shorts - NIKEriffic!

Alyssa looks about 8 - 10 yo in those pics, but she is at least 14?

Mullet wouldn't go for a hike, her Starbucks would run out too quickly.

[Arix]

Gosh, I can see the resemblance between Michael and Alyssa in those.