Feminism is to blame for stress in our middle years - Lori

[moodygirl86]

What isn't feminism to blame for, according to Lori?

I think what really aggravates her is that feminism makes people - men and women - aware that there are choices other than the fundie Christian model, and that means less people are likely to listen to her. Whereas if we were back in the pre-feminism times, we'd all have to accept her brand of bullshit - and others like her - whether we agreed or not.

[ThisOlGirl]

I wonder what Lori's views would be if Ken had actually left her like he vaguely threatened to do? I really don't think Lori is capable of taking care of herself, and I can't imagine there's another man on earth who would be willing to put up with her bullshit.

[lilwriter85]

exactly!!! I grew up on a farm. Grandpa had beef cattle and we had grandpa's beef for dinner. Dad only did cash crops (no animals) because he also taught full-time (after my mom signed his first contract after 'Nam.) along side my mom. My mom taught to keep us fed and dressed. Dad taught so he could keep farming. Part of farming was "harvesting" deer. The deer would eat so much of his beans, wheat and corn that the back 1/4 of his fields (by the woods) would have no grain on it. One year he tried to grow Canola- apparently Deer LLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEE canola- he didn't have a field by the time harvest came around. We shoot deer to eat and give away. We give them to families in need if we have too many in the freezer. My HS has (still after 20+ years) the first day of deer season off. Kids come in the next day (girls and boys) with the pictures of their deer. Although baby calves are cute- they aren't so adorable when they step on your toes or when they grow up. Plus- cows, pigs, etc are food. Plain and simple, they are not pets. Even the 4-H kids that get "attached" to them know they are raising the animal up to become dinner.

Lori thinks everyone is upper middle-class and city or suburban folks. There is an huge vast country and there a lot of us that live in those "fly over states" (country song) and love country living.

Lori gives off the impression that she been very ingrained in her upper middle class lifestyle too much to the point where she doesn't understand people outside of upper middle class suburbia. I have encountered people like that in different situations online and in real life. When I was in college, I had a classmate who grew up upper middle class, both of her parents were engineers making six figures. She was shocked when she interacted and go to know students who came from middle class and poor backgrounds.

A coupe of years back, I was doing some research on traveling and I came across a travel message board. One person there was curious about the percentage of Americans who have never been on planes and posted a thread about it. Several people replied that they had never known anyone who had not been on a plane. Then there were others who posted that they had friends or relatives who had never been on planes because they couldn't afford vacations or they had a fear of flying and traveling. I remember that one poster said that it was likely that the majority of members on that board were upper middle class and pretty much only knew people in that category. There are several other message boards that are pretty well known for being upper middle class hangouts and some of those boards are travel related. Now, not all the posters on those boards are oblivious to other economic classes, some people grew up poor and became financially successful as adults, but they acknowledge that not everyone is living like them.

I still cringe at times when I encounter people like Lori in real life or online. Last year, my cousin and her husband went to visit my parents for Labor Day weekend. I went up to see them because I hadn't seen my cousin in years and it was the first time meeting her husband. Her husband grew up traveling around due to his father being a Navy physician and his mother having old family money to finance trips outside of the dad being stationed in different places. My cousins' husband was shocked that my nephew had never done a Disney trip or anything similar.

[usmcmom]

What isn't feminism to blame for, according to Lori?

I think what really aggravates her is that feminism makes people - men and women - aware that there are choices other than the fundie Christian model, and that means less people are likely to listen to her. Whereas if we were back in the pre-feminism times, we'd all have to accept her brand of bullshit - and others like her - whether we agreed or not.

And those choices have allowed many women to be in happier circumstances than Lori's. She can't stand the fact that some women are happy in their marriage, or happy being single, or happy....fill in the blank, because she isn't happy. She is determined to paint everyone with the same miserable brush she uses to paint her own life.

[lilwriter85]

I wonder what Lori's views would be if Ken had actually left her like he vaguely threatened to do? I really don't think Lori is capable of taking care of herself, and I can't imagine there's another man on earth who would be willing to put up with her bullshit.

Hard to tell with Lori. I get the vibe that she probably can't take care of herself if Ken wasn't around. Lori has a college degree and taught in public schools many years ago. I don't think she would have re entered the education field or any other kind of workforce field. I think she would have probably relied on her parents for help. Her parents have helped her in the past when it came to Lori's health problems. But I think the parents would have limits on how much they would have helped Lori if Ken left her. I think maybe there is a tiny chance, some guy would have gotten with Lori and been ok with her bullshit. I think if Ken left Lori or if he had died, she would have found some guy who is very Christian and doesn't like women to work.

[salex]

Lori just linked to this LOLOLOL

psychologytoday.com/blog/your-online-secrets/201409/internet-trolls-are-narcissists-psychopaths-and-sadists

Wait, do Ken and Lori believe in psychologists, or are people supposed to tough it out or go to their minister.

Also, I am not a troll. My only posts to her blog have been sincere and wanting sincere answers--and that got me nowhere. Disagreement or even sincere questions are not tolerated in Lorken Land.

I find it interesting that Lori is using the research of a working woman with a PhD to make her point. Isn't this woman surely violated God's will by having an education and a career?? If so, how can you trust her, Lori?

However, if we are now using Psychology Today as a valid source book, Lorken, here are a few tidbits.

psychologytoday.com/blog/love-in-limbo/201104/feminism-is-the-anti-viagra-not

But to say "feminism" is causing loss of desire and damping male arousal is totally misleading. In fact, there is research that supports the opposite. Rudman and Phelan (1) found that men who had feminist partners reported being in more stable relationships and greater sexual satisfaction." Brezsnyak & Whisman (2), showed that more egalitarian decision making was associated with elevated levels of sexual desire. Schwartz and Young summarized a number of studies showing a relationship between equitable couples and greater sexual satisfaction (3).

And Ken, the article even described YOUR sex life, as described by Lori a while back.

Utilitarian Sex

Utilitarian sex is just getting off. It's neither passionate or sweet, and doesn't even require a partner. It might be a perfunctory coupling at the end of the day to discharge work tension and go to sleep, or a quickie eye-opener when his morning hard-on appears. This is where the brain's sex-differentiated arousal circuitry is most apparent. A man is more likely to be thinking about porn and go straight to intercourse during utilitarian sex and the woman he's with is less likely to have an orgasm.

Utilitarian sex is object-oriented and goal-oriented, and more men than women say they're sexually satisfied when they're mostly having this kind of sex. If he wants it more than she does they might both label it as her "desire problem." But what a man does in bed when he just wants to get off is typically not the stuff that's most gratifying to a woman - so it's natural for her to feel less desire for it.

And A discussion on how Spanking harms the brain and is a poor choice for discipline.

psychologytoday.com/blog/the-me-in-we/201202/how-spanking-harms-the-brain

psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201309/research-spanking-it-s-bad-all-kids This article defines spanking that is much milder than yours, Lorken... it is an open hand, not an implement.

Info on letting babies cry it out

psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out

psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201407/parents-misled-cry-it-out-sleep-training-reports you put your babies at risk for neurlogical damage by letting them cry it out, Lori.. then added to it by spanking them.

So, maybe you should read up, Lori, and retract some of your ill thought out advice and posts from the past.

[formergothardite]

I think Lori is tougher than she seems. If Ken had left her she would have made it somehow. It would have been rough. She would not have been able to sit around eating her organic food and trying to make everyone as miserable as she is. But there is a chance she would have come out of it a better, stronger person. She might have ended up just as bitter, but a woman whose husband dumped her because she is such a bitch is less likely to be able to brand herself as a godly mentor who knows everything there is to know about marriage and life.

[browncoatslytherin]

Wait, do Ken and Lori believe in psychologists, or are people supposed to tough it out or go to their minister.

Also, I am not a troll. My only posts to her blog have been sincere and wanting sincere answers--and that got me nowhere. Disagreement or even sincere questions are not tolerated in Lorken Land.

I find it interesting that Lori is using the research of a working woman with a PhD to make her point. Isn't this woman surely violated God's will by having an education and a career?? If so, how can you trust her, Lori?

However, if we are now using Psychology Today as a valid source book, Lorken, here are a few tidbits.

psychologytoday.com/blog/love-in-limbo/201104/feminism-is-the-anti-viagra-not

But to say "feminism" is causing loss of desire and damping male arousal is totally misleading. In fact, there is research that supports the opposite. Rudman and Phelan (1) found that men who had feminist partners reported being in more stable relationships and greater sexual satisfaction." Brezsnyak & Whisman (2), showed that more egalitarian decision making was associated with elevated levels of sexual desire. Schwartz and Young summarized a number of studies showing a relationship between equitable couples and greater sexual satisfaction (3).

And Ken, the article even described YOUR sex life, as described by Lori a while back.

Utilitarian Sex

Utilitarian sex is just getting off. It's neither passionate or sweet, and doesn't even require a partner. It might be a perfunctory coupling at the end of the day to discharge work tension and go to sleep, or a quickie eye-opener when his morning hard-on appears. This is where the brain's sex-differentiated arousal circuitry is most apparent. A man is more likely to be thinking about porn and go straight to intercourse during utilitarian sex and the woman he's with is less likely to have an orgasm.

Utilitarian sex is object-oriented and goal-oriented, and more men than women say they're sexually satisfied when they're mostly having this kind of sex. If he wants it more than she does they might both label it as her "desire problem." But what a man does in bed when he just wants to get off is typically not the stuff that's most gratifying to a woman - so it's natural for her to feel less desire for it.

And A discussion on how Spanking harms the brain and is a poor choice for discipline.

psychologytoday.com/blog/the-me-in-we/201202/how-spanking-harms-the-brain

psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201309/research-spanking-it-s-bad-all-kids This article defines spanking that is much milder than yours, Lorken... it is an open hand, not an implement.

Info on letting babies cry it out

psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out

psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201407/parents-misled-cry-it-out-sleep-training-reports you put your babies at risk for neurlogical damage by letting them cry it out, Lori.. then added to it by spanking them.

So, maybe you should read up, Lori, and retract some of your ill thought out advice and posts from the past.

tutt tutt, lori doesn't research! she proved that much with pp, even openly admitting she didn't look into stevie. lorken are the masters of nitpickers - picking one little thing that supports their beliefs and discarding everything else that doesn't, even when they come from the same source.

[Ivycoveredtower]

So what really ticked me off about her newest post is that she says woman are having kids without husbands and expecting the government to pay for them. Not that I find this really true. Sure some people but nothing like Lori is trying to convay but my real issue is First of all How is that really any different then having a million kids and having the church pay for it or being a widow and having the church basically pay you a salary to stay home so you don't have to work. just because those kids came from in the bonds of marriage doesn't change the fact that those women are taking money to raise their kids.

[usmcmom]

I think Lori would be just fine if Ken left her, assuming she received spousal support. It's not like Ken offers her any companionship, comfort or nurturing. He never made his family a priority. I think deep down, she would find it a relief to be rid of him as long as she kept his money.

As for the Psychology Today links.... :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Lori probably smugly hit "post link" thinking "that'll show 'em;" but BAM!! somebody here can always out link Klorien. Well done.

[formergothardite]

I think it is probably narcissistic to think that everyone who disagrees with you must be a troll because you are never wrong.

[jerkit]

Lori just dove into the whole “egalitarians aren’t True Christians ™†in the comments. *eye roll*

[Loveday]

Lori just dove into the whole “egalitarians aren’t True Christians ™†in the comments. *eye roll*

Because 'there is no such thing as an egalitarian marriage in the Bible,' dontcha know. :naughty:

I don't think she knows what the word egalitarian really means.

*edited to make sure I quoted Lori precisely

[salex]

God help me, I read the comments. Literally every farm woman I knew who was my grandmother's generation always was the one to kill the chickens and clean them and fry them up sometimes between church and lunch. I helped. My mom didn't raise chickens which is fine with me. I'm a wimp-- I don't like the goo involved in any of it. But my husband's family raises chickens and has a killing day where they kill and process and freeze 50 or so and split them among his brother's and nieces' and nephews' freezers. And this is done in large part by the wives, though not exclusively.

I am reminded of the woman in Roger and Me who killed and gutted the rabbit without even blinking.

[Koala]

I wonder what Lori's views would be if Ken had actually left her like he vaguely threatened to do? I really don't think Lori is capable of taking care of herself, and I can't imagine there's another man on earth who would be willing to put up with her bullshit.

Neither do I. Lori is a shining example of what happens when someone is catered to their entire life. She's never had to do anything for herself, and as a result she's never learned how to do even the most basic things (walking the fuck out of the house when there's a fire in close proximity). Worse yet, she assumes others are just as incapable as she is.

I also think that's why she is so willing to post on topics that she hasn't researched and knows absolutely nothing about (and then defend her position until the bitter end). She's the bully in her family (she's admitted as much) and everyone (besides a couple of her aunts) is to afraid to call her on the idiotic assertions she makes. As a result, she assumes she's right about everything, when in reality she comes across as pitifully dumb. Sometimes I wonder if they don't secretly laugh behind her back at what a fool she's making of herself. She's treated them all so poorly for so long, it would be the ultimate FU to sit back and watch her prance around the world wide web with her skirt tucked into her pantyhose.

The irony is, she contradicts herself about half the time, and is constantly calling Ken for back up or deleting comments that prove her wrong. She probably spends more time worrying about "dissenters" that any working mom I know spends away from home.

[bean]

God help me, I read the comments. Literally every farm woman I knew who was my grandmother's generation always was the one to kill the chickens and clean them and fry them up sometimes between church and lunch. I helped. My mom didn't raise chickens which is fine with me. I'm a wimp-- I don't like the goo involved in any of it. But my husband's family raises chickens and has a killing day where they kill and process and freeze 50 or so and split them among his brother's and nieces' and nephews' freezers. And this is done in large part by the wives, though not exclusively.

I am reminded of the woman in Roger and Me who killed and gutted the rabbit without even blinking.

This reminds me of the old Bontranger post that showed women processing chickens (in flip-flops no less!).

bontragersingers.blogspot.com/2013/06/life-at-colony.html

[moodygirl86]

Lori is a shining example of what happens when someone is catered to their entire life. She's never had to do anything for herself, and as a result she's never learned how to do even the most basic things (walking the fuck out of the house when there's a fire in close proximity). Worse yet, she assumes others are just as incapable as she is.

I know a woman like this, my mate's SIL. I've met her only a few times, but God does she get on my nerves with her helpless-little-girl act. She's in her 30s but tries to look 16. She wears excruciating high heels, even in the privacy of her own or someone else's house (everyone else took their shoes off except her), and never goes anywhere without her husband. And outside the house, she always clings to his arm. I don't think I ever see them unattached in public! On her other arm she always carries a tiny little handbag that is clearly more for decoration than anything else, because there's no way she can fit anything into it.

Now, I know how judgmental my first paragraph sounds, and I wouldn't normally get so annoyed by any of the above, except when I do see her, she makes bitchy comments about MY footwear (all flat and designed for walking long distances in), the fact that I carry a "man's rucksack" and the fact that I'm single by choice. All the things she comments on seem to relate to the fact that I'm independent, and that I don't handicap my own mobility with silly shoes and use a bag that allows me to carry more stuff. As if I'm somehow insulting her with how different we are. (I wouldn't think anything of it if she didn't judge me first). The first time I'd met her and I was getting set to make tracks, she kept telling me I should make her husband "escort" me home and carry my rucksack for me, even though I only lived round the corner, it was broad daylight and I was more than capable of carrying my own things! She even said that my "tits would make me topple" if I carried a heavy load, to which I told her to mind her own fucking business!

This was incidentally, also after she'd spent the afternoon lecturing me about what I should or shouldn't do with my future. I'd mentioned saving to move to London.

HER: (aggressively): LONDON?! What's wrong with Birmingham???!!!

ME: Nothing against Birmingham, but I've been here for ages and I just want a change.

HER: Well, I grew up in London and I didn't like it!

ME: Well that's you, not me. I've been to London and I do like it.

HER: But you'll end up getting raped if you move down there! Move to Sheffield, it's safer!

ME (laughing): Yeah, because nobody ever got raped in Sheffield, did they. You're welcome not to live in London if you didn't like it there. I'm equally welcome to disagree with you based on my experience. Don't tell me what to do.

Basically, she had the same Lori-like mix of arrogance and co-dependence on the men in her life. I do marvel at how people as weak as that can also be so stubborn, but it's a puzzling duality.

[eri]

exactly!!! I grew up on a farm. Grandpa had beef cattle and we had grandpa's beef for dinner. Dad only did cash crops (no animals) because he also taught full-time (after my mom signed his first contract after 'Nam.) along side my mom. My mom taught to keep us fed and dressed. Dad taught so he could keep farming. Part of farming was "harvesting" deer. The deer would eat so much of his beans, wheat and corn that the back 1/4 of his fields (by the woods) would have no grain on it. One year he tried to grow Canola- apparently Deer LLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEE canola- he didn't have a field by the time harvest came around. We shoot deer to eat and give away. We give them to families in need if we have too many in the freezer. My HS has (still after 20+ years) the first day of deer season off. Kids come in the next day (girls and boys) with the pictures of their deer. Although baby calves are cute- they aren't so adorable when they step on your toes or when they grow up. Plus- cows, pigs, etc are food. Plain and simple, they are not pets. Even the 4-H kids that get "attached" to them know they are raising the animal up to become dinner.

All farm animals can be and sometimes are pets. :) I think it is a bit narrow-minded to assert that deer, cows, pigs, etc. are food just because you personally like to eat them.

Sounds like your grandpa could have invested in a cat fence. Expensive, yes, but not nearly as expensive as the crop devastation from hungry deer!

[DGayle]

Sounds like your grandpa could have invested in a cat fence. Expensive, yes, but not nearly as expensive as the crop devastation from hungry deer!

Deer are notorious fence-jumpers. You'd have to have something entirely enclosed at the top to make sure they couldn't get in. The cost of that much chainlink is absolutely outside the range of affordability for most people. Sure, it might pay itself off after a few decades, but the cost up front is what most people couldn't afford. Solar would save us tons of money, but since we don't have the tens of grand up front, we get to pay through the nose instead. Same with crops (the loss is basically the premium for not caging, or the equivalent of not getting solar panels).

[thoughtful]

Lori drives me nuts. She strains and strains to come up with reasons why feminism is bad.

Maybe some of her unpleasant manner comes from painful hemorrhoids.

[feministxtian]

The more upset fundies get over this issue, the more smug I get over the fact that my lifestyle would make them angry. My husband is stay-at-home and responsible for all chores most of the time. I help, of course, but my career is high-paying so he is compensated greatly for it.

Feminism isn't just about a woman's choice; feminism makes it socially acceptable for men to be stay-at-home husbands.

I would love for a devout Christian to observe my lifestyle and attack me for it. I would cackle all the way to the Bahamas.

My husband has been a SAHH for the last 3 years...he can stay home or go back to work...I don't care which. While he's been a SAHH, he's done the lion's share of the housework (except cooking, the man can burn boiled water) and just cleaned our house top to bottom before we moved out. He's better at it than I am. I've been told that I don't have a "real" marriage, nor am I a "real" Christian. We also have separate bank accounts...oughta hear the fundies go bonkers over that one!

Lori can take her definition of a "real" marriage and shove it up her ass...there's no way in hell I'd want a marriage like that...

[feministxtian]

found this comment on Lorken's blog...

"There is a woman in my Bible study who has demonstrated how to Biblically handle all lifes stresses. She was a stay at home mom of four. A few months ago her last one married. She had taken care of both her parents in her home. Her father passed away a few years ago, her mother passed away a few weeks after the recent wedding. They both required a LOT of her time. She lost a lot of sleep and had very little social life. But the point is, she had allowed herself to be in a position where she could be used. Her recent prayer request was that she would be a "Naomi" to her daughters-in-law.

Sure she had stress and I am sure she questioned her sanity on more than one occassion. But she was there for her family. Imagine if she was also trying to hold down a job? Her parents would have gone into a nursing home...a very sad place to be. And now, would she have the time or energy to be a wonderful mother in law?

I am glad God puts women like this in my life. "

I took care of my mother AND worked full time...I had aides who would help but I did the lion's share of work...AND worked AND took care of my husband AND had custody of my granddaughters AND had a couple of teenagers at home at the time.

Fuck this shit...dumb bitch.

[Curious]

Lori just linked to this LOLOLOL

psychologytoday.com/blog/your-online-secrets/201409/internet-trolls-are-narcissists-psychopaths-and-sadists

Thanks for posting the link. Someone posted about the article in another Lori thread, but didn't post the link and I was too lazy/busy to go look for it at that moment.

As I said in that comment, I think the article is probably interesting. I'm going to go read it after I finish this comment. However, Kenori need to understand that people who disagree with them are not "internet trolls." "Trolls" are a very specific thing and it's not people who disagree with you or ask you questions you don't want to answer.

[Curious]

I meant to mention this a while back and forgot. It really doesn't have anything to do with this post, but just Kenori in general. I've noticed that Ken has started the trend of saying "our New Life in Christ" a lot. I suspect this is his effort to "rebrand" and get people (mostly us, of course) to stop talking about all those pesky things Lori has blogged about from BEFORE she was a dutiful submissive wife.

He made a big deal about that when he was here that we kept bringing up the past and we weren't giving credit to Lori for having changed, despite her having just said the stuff we were quoting on her blog recently :roll:

The first time I saw him use that phrase, I just thought it was one of his usual wall o' text things, but since then I've noticed it's become a regular part of his vocabulary.

Now on to the current topic. Here is how the article defines an Internet Troll:

Let's start by getting our definitions straight. An internet troll is someone who comes into a discussion and posts comments designed to upset or disrupt the conversation. Often, it seems like there is no real purpose behind their comments except to upset everyone else involved. Trolls will lie, exaggerate, and offend to get a response.

I don't see anything in there about disagreeing with what you say or asking questions that are on topic, but you don't want to answer.

We know that some people find Kenori's deletion of the comments far more upsetting than the comments themselves, in fact.

Holy cow that was a short article. I can see why Lori linked to it. It was about her attention span ;)

This quote I think is germane to us here at FJ, so I'm quoting it for us..it doesn't have anything to do with Lori really.

Trolls truly enjoy making you feel bad. To quote the authors once more (because this is a truly quotable article):

"Both trolls and sadists feel sadistic glee at the distress of others. Sadists just want to have fun ... and the Internet is their playground!"

So next time you encounter a troll online, remember a few things. (1) These trolls are some truly messed up people and (2) it is your suffering that brings them pleasure, so the best thing you can do is ignore them.

We don't really get TRUE trolls here all that often, but when we do we would do well to remember these 2 points and not give them what we want. Knowing this information, the next time we get a true troll (I'm thinking Gojira type here), we might be better off just tossing them in JTTH when they become disruptive (as allowed in the TOU) and not let them even get a foothold like we have in the past.

I'm not sure how I feel about that, but it's something to think about.

[quiversR4hunting]

Deer are notorious fence-jumpers. You'd have to have something entirely enclosed at the top to make sure they couldn't get in. The cost of that much chainlink is absolutely outside the range of affordability for most people. Sure, it might pay itself off after a few decades, but the cost up front is what most people couldn't afford. Solar would save us tons of money, but since we don't have the tens of grand up front, we get to pay through the nose instead. Same with crops (the loss is basically the premium for not caging, or the equivalent of not getting solar panels).

I had to look up a cat fence. As DGayle said fences high enough to have deer NOT jump out is huge and they would find a way because they would go around our forest and into the neighbor and then come up the road and eat the grains. I guess you could fence in the fields (100 acres or so- per field) but that is way too expensive and plus gates to get in and out with a huge grain head- not practical. Dad learned a lesson with Canola and hasn't planted it since. Who would have known that deer love Canola? The others (corn, beans) always have damage, it's the chance of being a farmer. There is always some loss with any business.

Eri- you are right just because we eat the meat doesn't mean they couldn't be pets but we didn't eat a 100 head of cattle. Grandpa raised them and sold them to market and one or 2 would be butchered for the extended family. When you live on a farm you know a cow, pig, chicken, etc are raised for food or to be sold to someone else for food. It's a business, a lively hood, it's reality and just different than suburbia and the city. I have lived in the city, suburbia and was raised on the farm- mentality is just different, not bad, just different.