Duggars are a tough crowd

[whitegirl22]

I am not really surprised how Ben is been treated by the family. Anne, did not fare much better. They are like lambs thrown to the wolves. I will never forget Anne moaning dreadfully and then giving birth beside a toilet. Where was her Mother??. At least, she came to her senses and got away to DC.

 

Have to wonder also: why JD is so bitter and hostile at such a young age and Jana has a face full of secrets.

[Four is Enough]

This is why I don't think Jill is such a "qualified" midwife. In any situation where something as wild as labor is going to happen to a person, she needs to be taught what to expect. Stuff about labor. Stuff about birth. Stuff about HOME BIRTH... Anna lying in a tub of water, thinking her baby is going to drown, has been taught NOTHING... a qualified midwife would not have pushed her into something she didn't know about or understand, and didn't Jill preside over some of those births?

[Ivycoveredtower]

This is why I don't think Jill is such a "qualified" midwife. In any situation where something as wild as labor is going to happen to a person, she needs to be taught what to expect. Stuff about labor. Stuff about birth. Stuff about HOME BIRTH... Anna lying in a tub of water, thinking her baby is going to drown, has been taught NOTHING... a qualified midwife would not have pushed her into something she didn't know about or understand, and didn't Jill preside over some of those births?

Jill was at Kenzie's birth not sure of Micheal's and I think she was at Marcus's.

[BrownieMomma]

Ben is a big boy, needs to put on his big boy panties, and stop being Jim Bob's yard bitch. What is he going to do after he gets married? Mow his wife's family's lawn when he gets back from his honeymoon?

As for Anna, I doubt the Duggars pushed her into home birth. I've not known Michelle to be an advocate of this as she has hospital births herself.

I wish Anna had not allowed herself to be filmed while birthing on the toilet. That's the kind of thing I'd just rather not have to witness, even though I have heard of other women laboring on the toilet.

[Four is Enough]

No, I don't think the Duggars pushed Anna into the home birth per se, but I DO think that if Jill had been a "nearly completed training" midwife, she'd have seen that Anna had some teaching done. From what I remember of the show of Marcus being born, I DO believe Anna was pushed into having a tub birth. She was terrified! If those midwives had any education at all, they'd have given her a short rundown of what to expect at least! Instead, she was pushed into something she wasn't prepared to handle. The Duggars are partly to blame, IMO.. because they use "friends" to help them do things... I, myself, would NEVER go to a midwife service labeled "Mommy's Butterfly Midwife" or whatever it's called. I was terrified during all the birth sequences, hoping that no complications ensued. I know birthing a baby is supposed to be natural and able to be done at home. Let me tell you, though, that I have seen complications of birth, and I wouldn't trust any of the people delivering babies on that show to be competent to even know when to call for help. I wouldn't have bought a used car from Josh, I wouldn't fly on John David's plane, and I wouldn't hire Jim Bob to sell me real estate, either.. because I wouldn't trust licenses to be up to date, I wouldn't trust them to know and adhere to codes, or to be completely honest in their dealings with me.

[Feberin]

As for Anna, I doubt the Duggars pushed her into home birth. I've not known Michelle to be an advocate of this as she has hospital births herself.

Michelle did have some home births until she became too high risk. I'm not sure exactly when she stopped but when the moved out of their old house Jinger shows you where she was born.

[calimojo]

This was Anna's 3rd kid, right? I think she has some responsibility to learn what her birthing options are and educate herself. Th first home delivery bothered me because it seemed like a sudden change in plans.. there was no prep or back up plan from what I recall. i haven't seen the other births yet so maybe i will feel differently after I see them

[Rescinded and Mended]

One of my biggest problems with Josh is that he didn't stop the cameras from following Anna when she gave birth on the toilet. I think it might have been Jill who said that Anna thought she needed to have a bowel movement, and instead, the baby arrived, so Josh had a cameraman go in there with her. What kind of an asshole does that? Anna was vulnerable and needed help, not a camcorder pointed at her vagina while she gave birth.

I don't know the specifics of what happened later, whether or not she was guilted into it or voluntarily signed off on the toilet birth, but it doesn't change the fact that Josh should have advocated for her health and privacy by stopping the cameras from following her into the bathroom.

If it had been me, I would have been filing for divorce as soon as I was well enough to walk out of there.

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

Yes, the level of arrogance the Duggars show towards Ben and Anna is really palpable on the show. Imagine how they are when the cameras aren't rolling? Because of this, most of the Duggar kids will marry people like Ben and Anna- with no education or real training. JB wants to make sure his sons and daughters in law will be his lackeys.

I think Derrick was an anomaly. What college educated fully functioning adult wants to be pushed around like that by their in-laws.

People like Anna and Ben will go along with it because they will not have a choice. I am really interested to see how the Duggars treat Derrick on camera after the wedding. I bet it will be very different from how we have watched Anna and Ben be belittled.

I am not saying that Ben is any prize- he is a manboy who needs to grow up, like almost every other teenager who has lived at home. But I can't imagine his family is thrilled to watch him be made a bafoon of.

[delightfullyduggar]

One of my biggest problems with Josh is that he didn't stop the cameras from following Anna when she gave birth on the toilet. I think it might have been Jill who said that Anna thought she needed to have a bowel movement, and instead, the baby arrived, so Josh had a cameraman go in there with her. What kind of an asshole does that? Anna was vulnerable and needed help, not a camcorder pointed at her vagina while she gave birth.

I don't know the specifics of what happened later, whether or not she was guilted into it or voluntarily signed off on the toilet birth, but it doesn't change the fact that Josh should have advocated for her health and privacy by stopping the cameras from following her into the bathroom.

If it had been me, I would have been filing for divorce as soon as I was well enough to walk out of there.

I've been reading the tell all book about Kate Gosselin and there is part in the book that covers the contract they were under with TLC/Discovery and that was very telling for the Duggars. The contract is tight and takes control of their lives. Once they signed on the dotted line their lives are pretty much handed over to the show. Most of us wouldn't sign that line but because they did Smuggar didn't have as much choice in the matter as a normal person would.

[Four is Enough]

[

I've been reading the tell all book about Kate Gosselin and there is part in the book that covers the contract they were under with TLC/Discovery and that was very telling for the Duggars. The contract is tight and takes control of their lives. Once they signed on the dotted line their lives are pretty much handed over to the show. Most of us wouldn't sign that line but because they did Smuggar didn't have as much choice in the matter as a normal person would.

Well, the show has been going on for ten plus years, hasn't it? I'm sure there have been re-signings of contracts, and I'm equally sure he could have bowed out.

[FreeHannie!]

How do the contracts/confidentiality agreements apply to children who were minors at the time of filming? Surely if one of the Gosselin kids wants to write a Mommy Undearest book, they can.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I've been reading the tell all book about Kate Gosselin and there is part in the book that covers the contract they were under with TLC/Discovery and that was very telling for the Duggars. The contract is tight and takes control of their lives. Once they signed on the dotted line their lives are pretty much handed over to the show. Most of us wouldn't sign that line but because they did Smuggar didn't have as much choice in the matter as a normal person would.

Interesting, I wonder how long those contracts are in effect? :think:

I would hope that as an adult, Josh could have signed something that would, at the very least, exlude private moments such as childbirth. Part of me thinks that he could have at least sat down with the show's producers during contract negotiations and said nope, you can come in with cameras after the little bundle arrives and is cleaned up.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall...is it possible that the producers actually told him there would be no deal unless they could film the births, like with his mother?

[rene76]

This was Anna's 3rd kid, right? I think she has some responsibility to learn what her birthing options are and educate herself. Th first home delivery bothered me because it seemed like a sudden change in plans.. there was no prep or back up plan from what I recall. i haven't seen the other births yet so maybe i will feel differently after I see them

I've always wondered if it was her fear of an unknown doctor or Josh that caused her to changer her mind the first time. Either way, it was poorly planned.

[grandmadugger]

Interesting, I wonder how long those contracts are in effect? :think:

I would hope that as an adult, Josh could have signed something that would, at the very least, exlude private moments such as childbirth. Part of me thinks that he could have at least sat down with the show's producers during contract negotiations and said nope, you can come in with cameras after the little bundle arrives and is cleaned up.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall...is it possible that the producers actually told him there would be no deal unless they could film the births, like with his mother?

I think it is entirely possible that Josh and Anna were pressured into having the births filmed. Entertainment contracts are difficult to understand for a normal person let alone someone with limited education. Couple that with the fact Josh knew TLC money could make a big difference in their lives and TLC probably has free reign. I'll be interested to find out how Derrick and Jill handle it.

[Coco]

This was Anna's 3rd kid, right? I think she has some responsibility to learn what her birthing options are and educate herself. Th first home delivery bothered me because it seemed like a sudden change in plans.. there was no prep or back up plan from what I recall. i haven't seen the other births yet so maybe i will feel differently after I see them

Exactly. Anna isn't stupid. Waterbirthing is all over youtube. She could have hauled the kids down to the library for story time and checked it out. (if they don't have home internet for religious reasons, but i bet that they do have it since they have a TV, so her ignorance is even less forgivable.)

[roddma]

I have nothing against midwives, but I would not want Jill no where near me. Didnt she take a pulse wit her thumb once? I recall reading that. She should know a thumb has its own pulse.

[Lillybee]

If I remember correctly, Josh was napping when Anna first went into the bathroom and one of the J'slaves had to wake him up when the baby started coming. So it is possible that the crew was filming already.

[16strong]

See, I think of the Duggars as being such an insular group that any outsiders are seen as trespassers, hence their often snotty attitude. They're happy to have "friends" and "visitors," but at the end of the day, they want those people gone and could care less about seeing them again. They want the 1,500+ friends as proof of their popularity and righteousness, not as actual friends that they enjoy being around.

[CorruptionInc.]

If I remember correctly, Josh was napping when Anna first went into the bathroom and one of the J'slaves had to wake him up when the baby started coming. So it is possible that the crew was filming already.

Smuggar, you make me cringe!!! :x

[CorruptionInc.]

See, I think of the Duggars as being such an insular group that any outsiders are seen as trespassers, hence their often snotty attitude. They're happy to have "friends" and "visitors," but at the end of the day, they want those people gone and could care less about seeing them again. They want the 1,500+ friends as proof of their popularity and righteousness, not as actual friends that they enjoy being around.

In the episodes where Smuggar and his clan of goofballs moving to DC and the dropped in on the Bates'; Michelle called them "what she would call true friends"... :ew:

[silverspoons]

Anna has said she is a big supporter of home births and likes to encourage moms to choose it as an option. I believe she sees filming her homebirths as a ministry. There is a video of her at a book signing talking to fans about how happy she when she hears women are choosing homebirth after seeing her.

As for the contracts the duggars when they got the show 17 kids got their first contract with the real rules that Kate Gosselin had. This is when we see the girls get better hair, clothes and makeup. Then the new shades and lighting in the TTT. This is the small ways TLC starts. Josh and Anna would have gotten there own contract for their filming. I can't imagine Anna would be covered under the Duggars contract, she was 20 when she came on the show and not married to a Duggar yet. If Josh after watching his family work with TLC for years did not get himself the contract he and Anna wanted and felt comfortable with then it is his fault.

[HuggleMonster]

I really don't get the issue with her giving birth on a toilet. I understand it's cringe worthy, but I don't understand why she's made fun of (for lack of a better term) for it.

My first baby was nearly born on the toilet. My midwife said that it puts the pelvis in the right alignment and makes it easier to push.

I also don't believe the crew followed her to the toilet. I'm gathering someone called out when they realised Michael was coming and then they went in.

[bal maiden]

I really don't get the issue with her giving birth on a toilet. I understand it's cringe worthy, but I don't understand why she's made fun of (for lack of a better term) for it.

My first baby was nearly born on the toilet. My midwife said that it puts the pelvis in the right alignment and makes it easier to push.

I also don't believe the crew followed her to the toilet. I'm gathering someone called out when they realised Michael was coming and then they went in.

Yes, I agree! Lots of babies are born on the toilet - why is that any worse than having the birth filmed in general? It's not like they filmed her actually taking a shit, and she'd have had a camera pointed at her vag whether she was on a toilet or a bed or wherever!

[Mama Mia]

No, I don't think the Duggars pushed Anna into the home birth per se, but I DO think that if Jill had been a "nearly completed training" midwife, she'd have seen that Anna had some teaching done. From what I remember of the show of Marcus being born, I DO believe Anna was pushed into having a tub birth. She was terrified! If those midwives had any education at all, they'd have given her a short rundown of what to expect at least! Instead, she was pushed into something she wasn't prepared to handle. The Duggars are partly to blame, IMO.. because they use "friends" to help them do things... I, myself, would NEVER go to a midwife service labeled "Mommy's Butterfly Midwife" or whatever it's called. I was terrified during all the birth sequences, hoping that no complications ensued. I know birthing a baby is supposed to be natural and able to be done at home. Let me tell you, though, that I have seen complications of birth, and I wouldn't trust any of the people delivering babies on that show to be competent to even know when to call for help. I wouldn't have bought a used car from Josh, I wouldn't fly on John David's plane, and I wouldn't hire Jim Bob to sell me real estate, either.. because I wouldn't trust licenses to be up to date, I wouldn't trust them to know and adhere to codes, or to be completely honest in their dealings with me.

I think you're putting way too much stock in Anna's fretting and worrying during labor and birth meaning she didn't know what was going on. I've known women who act like that during labor, just as I've known women who cuss and scream the whole time, women who do their labor breathing very quietly and practically sleep between contractions, women who cry, women who act like their normal selves, I even know someone who spent her whole labor apologizing to everyone !

I recall actually saying, out loud, that I wanted to stop and go home (because, ya know, back to back contractions and being 9 centimeters dilated is totally the time to quit ;)

But if I was giving birth on tv it wouldn't mean I wasn't prepared and didn't know that I couldn't actually just stop giving birth right then. Lots of women say all kinds of weird shit while in labor. Anna was also crying and praying and frantic that they wouldn't make it safely to the birth center -- obviously she had no objective reason to be that worried - it's just how she handles labor. It isn't good or bad or a sign of ignorance - or ignorance on the part of her midwife. It just is. And a good midwife or support person would know that and just try to go with it and reassure her. Which, if I recall, is exactly what they did.