Vyckie Garrison of NLQ asking for money

[lilwriter85]

I used to like Vyckie. I found NLQ when I started doing deeper research of the Duggars and the QF movement. I found NLQ in 2010, I found it through a google search of the Duggars. I later saw it being linked on IMDB 19kac boards and the Duggar thread on TWOP. I like some of the stuff Vyckie wrote and it was a bit obvious she used the Duggars as examples and that was why she got a lot of hits for the site. I started to dislike when the shit with her daughter went down and the later stuff with RR.

I do feel bad for Vyckie to be in this very difficult position. Maybe if things were a bit different with her past, I would donate. I did find it odd years ago, that she wasn't doing to improve her financial situation. I recall she had the magazine thing that she started after Warren was blinded. I have to give some credit to some fundie lite or VF types who do encourage women to have a college degree or vocational training under their belt, in case situations arise when women have to be the breadwinners. I also give LDS communities the same credit, because many LDS women do have things to fall back on, in case their husbands can't work and some LDS women do enter or re enter the work force after all of their kids are school age. But there are some LDS families, in which the wives/mothers have no backplan plans.

[DarkAnts]

I used to like Vyckie. I found NLQ when I started doing deeper research of the Duggars and the QF movement. I found NLQ in 2010, I found it through a google search of the Duggars. I later saw it being linked on IMDB 19kac boards and the Duggar thread on TWOP. I like some of the stuff Vyckie wrote and it was a bit obvious she used the Duggars as examples and that was why she got a lot of hits for the site. I started to dislike when the shit with her daughter went down and the later stuff with RR.

I do feel bad for Vyckie to be in this very difficult position. Maybe if things were a bit different with her past, I would donate. I did find it odd years ago, that she wasn't doing to improve her financial situation. I recall she had the magazine thing that she started after Warren was blinded. I have to give some credit to some fundie lite or VF types who do encourage women to have a college degree or vocational training under their belt, in case situations arise when women have to be the breadwinners. I also give LDS communities the same credit, because many LDS women do have things to fall back on, in case their husbands can't work and some LDS women do enter or re enter the work force after all of their kids are school age. But there are some LDS families, in which the wives/mothers have no backplan plans.

Vyckie had a good job and was the bread earner. She willing gave that up when she forced her family to be fundie. She is the one who decided that the family should be fundie. Being fundie brought out the worst in her husband as he tried to fill the part of being the ultimate authority.

[Firiel]

I know there were some comments here about when Razing Ruth's articles were removed from NLQ. It appears that at some point, the new manager of NLQ (Calulu) recognized that Ruth was, indeed, a fake and removed them. Not sure when exactly that happened, but this is a portion of a comment she wrote on the Truth about Ruth blog that I have been reading obsessively the past few weeks (scammer-in-a-minivan.com/screening-the-possum-introduction/). The comment is from April 17, 2014, but I don't know when the stories were removed.

Her story is no longer up at No Longer Quivering and I’ve been talking to a lawyer about a disclaimer for NLQ as a result. I flipped the finger at everyone because I incorrectly thought that Chris/Ruth was being harassed for no reason again. But… the mountain of medical evidence and my own knowledge of what living with a chronic illness is like could not be denied. Yes. I was wrong.

[louisa05]

I think Vykie Garrison is still just as fundamentalist as she was, she's just switched teams.

Absolutely, and I think that is very common in people who leave. What I see (and I know several people who have left IRL) is that if you have been conditioned to see everything in black and white for your entire life, you can't suddenly see shades of gray. So "switching teams" and remaining black and white is the result.

[apple1]

I know there were some comments here about when Razing Ruth's articles were removed from NLQ. It appears that at some point, the new manager of NLQ (Calulu) recognized that Ruth was, indeed, a fake and removed them. Not sure when exactly that happened, but this is a portion of a comment she wrote on the Truth about Ruth blog that I have been reading obsessively the past few weeks (scammer-in-a-minivan.com/screening-the-possum-introduction/). The comment is from April 17, 2014, but I don't know when the stories were removed.

Curious put a couple of screen shots up, earlier in this thread.

[Firiel]

Curious put a couple of screen shots up, earlier in this thread.

Yeah, I saw those. I didn't mean this to be a defense of NLQ, specifically, because while that post from 2013 still being there may be an understandable oversight, her blog still being in the blog list isn't.

[salex]

Oh she must have taken like line if equity or whatever it's called and then had trouble making the payments on that. That makes more sense.

In my state, liens can be placed on homes for unpaid taxes, for construction or repairs that the owner fails to pay for and for little else, except possibly the second mortgage / line of credit. I have heard of some states where medical bills / hospitals might put a lien on a house.

DOes she have spousal support or child support she might owe?

[chaotic life]

The go fund me says she took out a loan to pay her ex for his portion of the house. If that was a mortgage, she ought to have recourse. But if it was a line of credit or worse a personal loan where she put her house as collateral (the most likely option she had at that point in time because they court low income, poor credit desperate people) then it could be in default of coming due and no recourse for her.

Financial devastation by holding the children ransom is a common abuse tactic. Vickie holds God responsible for her ex's abuse but still only marginally recognizes he was always abusive, their religious practices merely gave him permission to abuse.

[Arete]

I know there were some comments here about when Razing Ruth's articles were removed from NLQ. It appears that at some point, the new manager of NLQ (Calulu) recognized that Ruth was, indeed, a fake and removed them. Not sure when exactly that happened, but this is a portion of a comment she wrote on the Truth about Ruth blog that I have been reading obsessively the past few weeks (scammer-in-a-minivan.com/screening-the-possum-introduction/). The comment is from April 17, 2014, but I don't know when the stories were removed.

She doesn't admit she was wrong on the NLQ site, still has the finger up, but buries the acknowledgement she was wrong in the comments of a totally different blog. Survey says......

Cowardly bitch.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I think Vykie Garrison is still just as fundamentalist as she was, she's just switched teams.

Here's a response to Vyckie's article that you might want to check out:

http://glassdimly.com/blog/bible/quiver ... ristianity

So is this truly the logical conclusion of Christianity? Nearly half of the Christians in the United States are liberal. We marry queer folk, we practice pluralism, we build homeless shelters, and we read semiotic theory. Well, not all of us. But we certainly don't take the founding Psalm of the Quiverfull movement as prescriptive, because that's not how we read the Bible

[Curious]

She doesn't admit she was wrong on the NLQ site, still has the finger up, but buries the acknowledgement she was wrong in the comments of a totally different blog. Survey says......

Cowardly bitch.

It also wasn't just that she (and Vyckie) "flipped the finger at everyone," it was the wild overreaction and motives attributed to people (and me specifically) who were merely trying to give a heads up. If they want(ed) to bury their heads in the sand that is fine, but there was no reason to make the blog post that she did, nor to ban the words Free Jinger on NLQ.

The majority of members here have been supportive of NLQ (the site itself) and we allowed live links to the site and had a live link in our recommended sites on the blog until the RR thing. I could not, in good conscience, keep a link to the site as recommended when they refused to address the RR situation, though. We also no longer allow live links to the site for the same reason.

Actions have consequences.

[lascuba]

Woah, I had no idea about this Vyckie/FJ history. I'll just say that I've always been skeptical and a bit uncomfortable at how many of the prominent former-Quiverfull voices I've come across used to be fairly powerful and unfluential in Quiverfull circles. They were fanatical and manipulative in their former life--those personality traits don't change once belief systems do. I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't want to hear survivor stories from women who had it relatively good in the lifestyle.

[julie paradox]

To be fair, I would never have said that Vyckie "had it relatively good". Yes she was prominent - at least locally - but their life sounds hideous. IIrc, that newsletter was their main source of income.

What got me about Vyckie, even as she was initially telling her story, was the sheer incomprehensibility of the choices she made. This was a woman who, if we were to believe her self-assessment, was very clever; but I never saw any evidence.

She was abused by her stepfather and vowed she would NEVER allow her children to be in the same situation. Her relationship with her daughter's father ended - fair enough, these things happen. By the time the child was two, she had a stepfather. (oh, and guess what....)

She decided she would homeschool her daughter - partly because, I think, she felt she'd been let down by her school system. She had plans to do all these wonderful things like teaching Angel Latin. Then she had a whole load more children and could barely spare the time to teach them to read english.

(I'm not even going to get into the whole religion thing. I was vastly privileged in my religious upbringing and don't have the personality that fixates on rigid rules, so I have no point of understanding with these things.)

[lascuba]

You're right. She suffered horrendous abuse and saying she had it good is completely wrong. I just have such a huge problem with people who encourage and actively try to spread this belief system, and my frustration with that made me a forget the very real struggles she experienced. I do think she's someone who really enjoys having an audience and will try to keep that audience by staying on message no matter what she's actually experiencing herself. And I think it's important to keep that in mind when people like that do a 180. It's why I generally stay away from atheist circles composed of formerly super religious people. There's a vibe there I'm not comfortable with, because I can't let go of the idea that all it will take is just one big disappointment to completely change their beliefs again.

[Palimpsest]

It also wasn't just that she (and Vyckie) "flipped the finger at everyone," it was the wild overreaction and motives attributed to people (and me specifically) who were merely trying to give a heads up. If they want(ed) to bury their heads in the sand that is fine, but there was no reason to make the blog post that she did, nor to ban the words Free Jinger on NLQ.

The majority of members here have been supportive of NLQ (the site itself) and we allowed live links to the site and had a live link in our recommended sites on the blog until the RR thing. I could not, in good conscience, keep a link to the site as recommended when they refused to address the RR situation, though. We also no longer allow live links to the site for the same reason.

Actions have consequences.

To the bolded, yes, and that was Calulu's second post on TAR realizing that she had been wrong about Ruth, IIRC. She removed the stories from NLQ when I pointed out to her in no uncertain terms that RR posts were still up, and that she should take them down ASAP if she was going to acknowledge RR was a fake on TAR. I also said that she needed to publicly state why she took them down and include an apology to all NLQ readers. I can't be bothered to find my comment on the new site but she only took my advise on taking the RR story down. Naturally!

It seriously pissed me off that Calulu/Vyckie left the "Ruth" stuff up as long as they did and then swiffered it without ever acknowledging that NLQ had harbored and enabled a scam. IMO, it was not the scam that was so damaging because anyone can be scammed. It was their response to it that made me lose all faith in the integrity of Vyckie and Calulu.

I really don't think Calulu/Vyckie have it in them to apologize for their attacks on Curious (and TAR also at the beginning) for trying to give them a heads-up. As for them giving FJ the finger -- who cares? I only vaguely remembered the FJ thread that started all the bad blood anyway, so all Vyckie does by prolonging the one-sided feud is to remind me about her family issues.

Re. this fund-raising scheme for Vyckie, I feel very bad for her children but not that inclined to help. Perhaps. But looking at that initial post it seems that she hasn't paid a credit card bill for over 5 years. Can you imagine the interest? That sounds like her own personal stupidity and complete fiscal irresponsibility not just knock on effects from getting screwed in her divorce.

Stepping back for a moment, it is surprising how abrasive and unlikable many whistle-blowers are in non-Fundie contexts too. It takes an angry and very determined person to shine light onto wrong doing.

When I look at people like Vyckie and Jen Fishburne, or even Jocelyn Zichterman, I can't help wondering how much the abuse they have experienced makes them this way. In Vyckie and Jen's cases they pretty much volunteered themselves as victims and are very unlikable, arrogant, and self-involved. Not so much Jocelyn who grew up Fundie, but she is reputed to be a narcissistic horror to be around too.

[Firiel]

To the bolded, yes, and that was Calulu's second post on TAR realizing that she had been wrong about Ruth, IIRC. She removed the stories from NLQ when I pointed out to her in no uncertain terms that RR posts were still up, and that she should take them down ASAP if she was going to acknowledge RR was a fake on TAR. I also said that she needed to publicly state why she took them down and include an apology to all NLQ readers. I can't be bothered to find my comment on the new site but she only took my advise on taking the RR story down. Naturally!

It seriously pissed me off that Calulu/Vyckie left the "Ruth" stuff up as long as they did and then swiffered it without ever acknowledging that NLQ had harbored and enabled a scam. IMO, it was not the scam that was so damaging because anyone can be scammed. It was their response to it that made me lose all faith in the integrity of Vyckie and Calulu.

I really don't think Calulu/Vyckie have it in them to apologize for their attacks on Curious (and TAR also at the beginning) for trying to give them a heads-up. As for them giving FJ the finger -- who cares? I only vaguely remembered the FJ thread that started all the bad blood anyway, so all Vyckie does by prolonging the one-sided feud is to remind me about her family issues.

Re. this fund-raising scheme for Vyckie, I feel very bad for her children but not that inclined to help. Perhaps. But looking at that initial post it seems that she hasn't paid a credit card bill for over 5 years. Can you imagine the interest? That sounds like her own personal stupidity and complete fiscal irresponsibility not just knock on effects from getting screwed in her divorce.

I didn't realize she had left them up once she accepted they were fake.

I just wanted to reiterate that I wasn't really defending her-- from what I've read (I wasn't around), their reaction was totally over-the-top. I guess I just posted this because, well, actually... because a part of me had been wondering if the RR posts were removed very recently to give more legitimacy to the fundraising effort. :?

[Palimpsest]

I didn't realize she had left them up once she accepted they were fake.

I just wanted to reiterate that I wasn't really defending her-- from what I've read (I wasn't around), their reaction was totally over-the-top. I guess I just posted this because, well, actually... because a part of me had been wondering if the RR posts were removed very recently to give more legitimacy to the fundraising effort. :?

No, I could see you weren't defending her. :) Their reaction was certainly ... interesting. I'm fairly confident the RR posts were removed from NLQ very soon after I called Calulu out on them still being there back in late April. So quite unconnected to this fundraiser although it does rather raise the specter of RR, doesn't it?

I didn't comment often on TAR at all - lack of time not lack of interest. Someone else on FJ may also remember the Calulu interaction, because I remember another person calling her out too and telling her that she and Vyckie needed to apologize to FJ. Fat hope. :mrgreen:

[Arete]

Vyckie and Calulu's nasty and childish reaction to being informed by Curious that RR was a scam played right into the hands of the patriarchal douchelords they claim to be fighting. Like Palimpsest said, it's not the fact they were scammed. It's the fact that they refused to acknowledge it because they disliked the messenger. So they acted like petulant brats, kept the links up, and thereby gave a reason for people to question the veracity of EVERYTHING on NLQ. Score a double for the other team...see how illogical women without guidance are and how can you trust anything on that site? They were willing to throw a match on the credibility of NLQ because they could not admit to a mistake? How very adult of them.

[Mama Mia]

Vyckie and Calulu's nasty and childish reaction to being informed by Curious that RR was a scam played right into the hands of the patriarchal douchelords they claim to be fighting. Like Palimpsest said, it's not the fact they were scammed. It's the fact that they refused to acknowledge it because they disliked the messenger. So they acted like petulant brats, kept the links up, and thereby gave a reason for people to question the veracity of EVERYTHING on NLQ. Score a double for the other team...see how illogical women without guidance are and how can you trust anything on that site? They were willing to throw a match on the credibility of NLQ because they could not admit to a mistake? How very adult of them.

Yeah, their reaction was just so strange and counterproductive. Even if they didn't believe she was a fake and wanted to defend her -- why go so crazy over-the-top hostile and aggressive in their reaction? Wouldn't a civil email to Curious just saying something like " We've looked over your information, but stand by our belief that Ruth is genuine" -- or a post saying similar -- wouldn't that have made much more sense?

[Un1c0rnTears]

I'm learning so much in the past 6 months that I never saw before about my family life. It surprises me, coming back here now, to see how many people have seen a side of my mom that I have always felt like I made up in my mind. Not sure how to go about it, but I'd kind of like to discuss, a little. I'm not the person I was in 2009, or the hopeful woman of the blog I kept. But I've felt very alone, in my doubts about my mom. This site is proof that I'm not alone. I'd be interested in chatting with people, if anyone wants to.

[treemom]

I'm learning so much in the past 6 months that I never saw before about my family life. It surprises me, coming back here now, to see how many people have seen a side of my mom that I have always felt like I made up in my mind. Not sure how to go about it, but I'd kind of like to discuss, a little. I'm not the person I was in 2009, or the hopeful woman of the blog I kept. But I've felt very alone, in my doubts about my mom. This site is proof that I'm not alone. I'd be interested in chatting with people, if anyone wants to.

angel,

I think you will find a lot of support here. But I also want to encourage you to be careful. Your mother forced you into the Internet public life with her blog and site. Don't feel obligated to take anything public you don't want to.

[Un1c0rnTears]

Thanks. I know that's something I'm responsible for. I've had a long time being the daughter, and I'm finally living my own life. It's amazing, being healthy! But my family, or at least our relationships, aren't. I know a lot of FJers are familiar with the same past and are living in a fairly healthy, socially adaptable life.

I want to meet others like me and even though online friends are not the same as personal friendships, the level of understanding that you can find in a normal setting doesn't compare. They can't quite relate. My mom has a lot of friends to go to for a listening ear. I'm not looking for a place to advertise my 'victim' status. Or to bash my mom. She's got her own issues. This is about me, knowing I'm not totally an isolated case. :/

[treemom]

I am so glad you feel healthy! My relationship with my parents is complicated and difficult. You are not alone. (I wasn't too worried about you bashing your mom or your "victim" status...I just wasn't sure what place you were in and wanted you to know that you don't have to feed our tendencies just to get support :) )

[Un1c0rnTears]

I don't mind updating on things. And I know after being in the spotlight, people already know about my mom and her cause! I stay away from the drama as much as possible. She was awarded Atheist of the Year, it reminded me of when she won Family of the Year. I'm glad to be out of the business of causes! I don't think I'm cut out for any kind of high profIle work. The blogging is a way for a lot of people to talk out issues, but I like keeping it more personal these days. :drool: getting away was the best thing for me! Now I'm finally able to address the past without still living in it.