Vyckie Garrison of NLQ asking for money

[silvia]

http://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/q ... -her-house

Due to her health and various financial issues, Vyckie Garrison -- the ex-quiverfull mom whose story appears in Kathryn Joyce's writing -- is asking the Internet, via friend Suzanne, to help her save her house. It's great that people are willing to donate, but I have to wonder what happens next. Even if she gets enough donations to pay off her immediate debts, she still doesn't seem to have a long-term, viable means of support for herself and the 5 kids.

[lemonhead]

That's a sad situation. I don't particularly care for Vyckie, for multiple reasons, but it's scary to face losing your home. Sadly, I think folks are more leery than in the past about giving money to bloggers and strangers on the internet--due to, for example, the whole Razing Ruth debacle (which of course Vyckie had a hand in perpetuating) people are a lot more cynical than a few years ago. I do wish her the best, but I hope she's planning for the worst.

[Jana814]

That's a sad situation. I don't particularly care for Vyckie, for multiple reasons, but it's scary to face losing your home. Sadly, I think folks are more leery than in the past about giving money to bloggers and strangers on the internet--due to, for example, the whole Razing Ruth debacle (which of course Vyckie had a hand in perpetuating) people are a lot more cynical than a few years ago. I do wish her the best, but I hope she's planning for the worst.

Agree w/ you. Can someone tell me how old her kids are.

[silvia]

That's a sad situation. I don't particularly care for Vyckie, for multiple reasons, but it's scary to face losing your home. Sadly, I think folks are more leery than in the past about giving money to bloggers and strangers on the internet--due to, for example, the whole Razing Ruth debacle (which of course Vyckie had a hand in perpetuating) people are a lot more cynical than a few years ago. I do wish her the best, but I hope she's planning for the worst.

I agree. Sadly, I think Vyckie is sort of a poster child for what can happen long-term once you buy into the Quiverfull lifestyle. Even though she no longer subscribes to this lifestyle and has helped others find their way out, the consequences of choices she made when she was "sold out" continue to haunt her.

[Closed Womb]

The first think I thought of when I saw this was Razing Ruth and how that changed my willingness to give to strangers (I never gave anything to an internet stranger, but I won't give cash to any organization now -- I tend to shop for food banks, etc.) Wasn't Vyckie unwilling to take down RR's account of events for a long time after she was outed?

In any case, it looks like it's liens against her, rather than her inability to pay the mortgage. I presume that means she does have an income, it just doesn't stretch enough to cover debts. Hopefully, she'll be able to rent if she does not get the donations.

[lemonhead]

Agree w/ you. Can someone tell me how old her kids are.

I don't know for sure--but I think they are not little ones anymore. I do remember reading a blog one of her daughters wrote for a while, and the daughter was an adult (married, in the military...and holy cow, the relationship between Vyckie and the daughter was seriously dysfunctional, but I digress :D ). But if that daughter was the oldest, then her other kids must be at least in their teens now. I'm sure someone will come along and correct me if I'm wrong.

[Toothfairy]

What happened to her husband?

[whoviana]

Sad and difficult situation...

[Talitha Cumi]

What happened to her husband?

Her ex-husband is blind, and afaik isn't gainfully employed.

Does Vyckie have a job? She didn't when I was reading NLQ; she was living off the blog ads and idk what else.

Agree 1000% on the dysfunctional relationship between her and her eldest. The stuff Angel wrote on her blog about Vyckie, the stuff Vyckie said on the forums about Angel, and their 180 degree turns in their opinions of each other all made me uncomfortable enough to just step back. It's a tangled mess, and I feel sorry for everyone involved.

[DGayle]

What's up with Razing Ruth? I've seen her mentioned, but don't know the back story.

[DGayle]

http://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/q8t5/help-no-longer-quivering-founder-former-quiverfull-mom-of-7-vyckie-garrison-save-her-house

Due to her health and various financial issues, Vyckie Garrison -- the ex-quiverfull mom whose story appears in Kathryn Joyce's writing -- is asking the Internet, via friend Suzanne, to help her save her house. It's great that people are willing to donate, but I have to wonder what happens next. Even if she gets enough donations to pay off her immediate debts, she still doesn't seem to have a long-term, viable means of support for herself and the 5 kids.

Over $23,000 needed. OUCH.

[Curious]

The first think I thought of when I saw this was Razing Ruth and how that changed my willingness to give to strangers (I never gave anything to an internet stranger, but I won't give cash to any organization now -- I tend to shop for food banks, etc.) Wasn't Vyckie unwilling to take down RR's account of events for a long time after she was outed?

In any case, it looks like it's liens against her, rather than her inability to pay the mortgage. I presume that means she does have an income, it just doesn't stretch enough to cover debts. Hopefully, she'll be able to rent if she does not get the donations.

I thought liens only went into effect if you were selling the property the lien was against?

Edited to add: Last time I checked the RR story were still up and the words Free Jinger being verboten over there were still the case. I was going through our links on the blog and removed the link to NLQ, mainly due to the fact that the RR story was still up. I don't really care so much about the childishness of them making the rule about not saying free jinger.

[chaotic life]

I spent about 15 years in QF/Fundamentalism myself. When we left, I immediately realized the fundamental requirement that I MUST complete my education and have income earning potential. I've been in school (except for the year I took off when my son died) since 2010 for this very reason.

It appears Vickie took loans against her house to buy out her ex and therefore there are liens on the house, not so much a mortgage per se. I honestly have no idea what Vickie does for earning money.

It's not that I'm unsympathetic. It's that the reality is that if you don't get an education and have wage earning potential, you are going to find yourself exactly in this situation, especially when you are married to someone abusive and who knows full well you will sacrifice your financial security to protect your children and uses that to destroy you one last time before the divorce is finally a done deal.

I do wish her luck. I think she has enough ties with the types of people that will help that she will get through this if someone gets the word out for her. I do wonder if she has long-term plans to address the financial situation since a one time flux of cash will help stave off an emergency but it won't secure a future in a situation like this. IIRC her youngest is now late elementary school age, seems like he was a toddler back when she started NLQ.

[Jana814]

Sad and difficult situation...

Agree!

[Curious]

It appears Vickie took loans against her house to buy out her ex and therefore there are liens on the house, not so much a mortgage per se.

Oh she must have taken like line if equity or whatever it's called and then had trouble making the payments on that. That makes more sense.

[Jasmar]

Ugh, this just makes me feel ill. I have never been QF, but have been in Evangelical Christianity for 17 years. I quit working when I was pg w/my 17-y-o because I wanted to, but didn't bother to keep up my employment skills because I didn't ever foresee a need. We had extensive disability and life insurance, so if anything happened to my husband we would still be okay.

Fast forward to now, and I've filed for divorce after two decades of mostly very subtle abuse. I haven't worked since 1996, didn't finish my college degree because of severe depression my first and last years, and now have permanent health problems. We are going to lose our home, I have one kid who probably qualifies for disability (although it will be a hard fight because of the nature of her several severe health problems). I don't have family who can help, not even with a place to live.

So this stuff makes me feel sick to my stomach. I'd love to have a fundraising website but my story isn't interesting enough. I don't know whether I feel sorry for her, resentful, or sympathetic. Ugh.

[longtimelurker6]

Movements that place women into traditional roles deliberately sabotage their ability to earn a living so that they won't be able to escape, even if abused.

[Sundaymorning]

Movements that place women into traditional roles deliberately sabotage their ability to earn a living so that they won't be able to escape, even if abused.

This. I'm wondering how many wives of fundies from all kinds of religions would file for divorce tomorrow if they knew that had the means to hire a good lawyer (messy divorces can get very costly) and to support themselves and their children without their husband.

[Arete]

The irony in this case is that Vyckie appears to have been the prime mover in steering her family INTO fundamentalism.

[chaotic life]

It's really not uncommon for women to be the driving force behind families entering fundamentalism. Women are traditionally more religiously active and pursue theology that is very seductive in how it woos those women into the abyss. Once there, men who have been told to be neanderthals and rule their families believe they have a sovereign and obligation to stay the course.

I was the driving force for us to enter that world. I was the driving force for leaving. If he had refused to leave with me, I would have left him in that religion to leave it behind, because it was so soul sucking.

I have a friend who is fundie-lite who is fully entrapped in that world. She has significant medical issues and having never earned a paycheck her really only escape will be when she hits retirement age and can claim 50% of his SSA amount as an income. Without an adult wage withholding, she cannot get disability. She cannot work. She is far from retirement age so she can't draw SS for retirement. She stays with a verbally abusive man who has had multiple affairs on her because she has no way to support herself if she leaves him. I'm positive she is not the only one like that.

I have another friend whose lived fundie-lite with health concerns and now her husband is dying of cancer. She has no idea what she's going to do. She does have live insurance, but not sufficient to provide for her for the rest of her expected lifespan.

I was dedicated, even when I was at my most conservative that I maintained my credentials so I had wage earning capabilities. I took a lot of heat for that decision but I did it anyway. I was SOO glad I did when we left that world behind, because I have been able to fall back on my wage earning abilities to support our family and give the boast that a family our size needs to get past scraping by of his income to treading water. When I finish my education in three years, my wage earning will be only marginally less than his and my career is one of the fastest growing pay rates in the nation with predictions of continuing to grow. I opted for a career I enjoy over a passion that I dearly wanted to pursue for the fundamental fact of the wage earning potential involved. Even with my health issues, I can earn an income that can support us.

[Jana814]

Movements that place women into traditional roles deliberately sabotage their ability to earn a living so that they won't be able to escape, even if abused.

Got that right! Also if G-d for bid their husbands die, it would be hard for them.

[Jasmar]

I'm not honestly sure how many women would leave even if they had better earning power. If you're convinced that God Hates Divorce means that God values an institution more than the people in it, you sort of don't feel like you have a lot of options. And for many women it ends up meaning leaving behind friends and possibly family, as many churches side with the man. The economic factor is only one piece.

[Sundaymorning]

I'm not honestly sure how many women would leave even if they had better earning power. If you're convinced that God Hates Divorce means that God values an institution more than the people in it, you sort of don't feel like you have a lot of options. And for many women it ends up meaning leaving behind friends and possibly family, as many churches side with the man. The economic factor is only one piece.

I agree that some women wouldn't leave, even if they had the money and the job possibilities to. And it's true that a divorce in these circles also means isolation from friends and possibly families (if they are in the same cult).

However, I think money is an issue, even if no one likes to talk about it. I'm pretty sure there is a considerable amount of women who are disillusioned with the fundie religion rules (no divorce! and such) and would leave if they could.

I once read some "advice" that Micheal Pearl gave an older women who complained about her husband and how he was constantly flirting with other women and treating her unkindly and so on. And well, his answer basically was that is was still better for her to be an unappreciated older wife with a house than being an old woman without a roof above her head. And as much as I hate saying it, he had a point.

[Kylolo]

I thought liens only went into effect if you were selling the property the lien was against?

No, liens can force the sale of a house even if the mortgage payments are up to date. If one doesn't pay property taxes or doesn't pay neighborhood association dues (for example) then the house can be sold to pay those debts as well.

[lawfulevil]

I won't be donating. I used to hang out in NLQ's chat room once in awhile, and Vyckie was pretty aloof towards me. But that's just my opinion, if you had a more positive experience with her, I'm not saying that you shouldn't donate or that you're wrong to like her.