Seventh Day Adventist blog or information

[goldbu]

Trynn, Thanks for sharing your story. I'm from the U.P. and had a friend who went to GLAA for her last two years of high school. You guys would have missed each other by a couple of years. The SDA world really is small... Two of my other friends and I actually went to visit her at school one year over our spring break. I remember we accidentally brought a lot of "contraband" with us, such as meat, caffeine, and secular music. She no longer considers herself SDA either, more agnostic these days.

[Trynn]

Thank you.... that is only part 1.... your friend and I might have missed each other in school by a couple of years, but the SDA world is so insulated I guarantee I've probably met her, as I did visit a year or so before... I'm curious as to who she is?

Incidenatlly, my face is on the wall of shame graduates int he year 2007. I am the one with the dolphin in the picture.

Also, in the girls dorm the rules were more relaxed. The girls' deans kinda knew what all we had, but unless it was something downright illegal like cigarettes or stolen goods, they didn't care. The boys' dorm, on the other hand, regularly held searches for contraband. Bear in mind contraband could range from caffeine and meat to stolen goods, cd players, or alcohol. Mostly there were problems with stealing (and porn) in the boys' dorm... but we girls didn't have nearly the amount of theft issues the boys' had, though we had a few.

In the girls' dorm, if the deans found caffein, they didn't necessarily care. If you were stupid enough to leave out a CD player during room check they'd confiscate it, but a bottle of coke? No one gave a damn. AT least, that was my experience.

[Firiel]

Trynn, thank you for sharing. Your story is fascinating. I have known a few SDAs, but was quite unfamiliar with their doctrine.

[bionicmlle]

Finding this thread very interesting. Thanks for answering all the questions.

What do SDA believe re family planning and birth control?

I'm going to try to answer some of these one-at-a-time because they are sort of interesting....

SDAs are definitely OK with birth control. In fact, the church does not even have a very strict stance on abortion and is pro-stem-cell-research. Adventist hospitals perform abortions for medical reasons and SDA doctors (of which there are many) have no trouble with providing birth control however will probably give a bit of a talk on abstinence before marriage.

[bionicmlle]

My legalistic church taught antichrist = pope because Daniel 7. That chapter lays out multiple 'reasons' it leads back to the Roman Catholic church. I remember there were Amazing Fact study guides handed out during a revival by a traveling preacher. My other church never touched on Catholicism or any other religions at all.

amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4992/t/who-is-the-antichrist.aspx

Mods, it's my first try at breaking a link. Please help if I screwed it up.

OMG growing up with some very conservative SDAs (NOT my family...) they were very anti-catholic - antichrist and all that. Mostly had to do with "worshiping a false god" and praying to mary/pope which, obviously, most SDAs do not understand. It was borne out of the early roots of the church in the 1800s.

[bionicmlle]

AHAHAHAHHAHAHA no. :) Church teaching is that the Catholic Church is the Beast of Revelation. We were well schooled in this during high school. I think it comes from Ellen G. White's writings, who Trynn referenced above.

Funny story: my junior year Bible teacher showed us how, when you take the letters in VICARIOUS FILI DEI that are Roman numerals and add them up, it comes out to 666. PROOF! But my younger sister, 4 years later, showed him that you can do the same with the numerals from Ellen Gould White. I don't know if he ever used that illustration again. :lol:

OMG one of my Academy teachers (see Trynn's post for vocab... :) ) did this entire lesson on "your righteousness as a menstrual rag." Some of the bullshit... it still astounds. DH got much masturbation-shaming and having to burn Van Halen records. So sad!

[bionicmlle]

So is conversion one of the primary goals of SDA?

Honestly, my one and only exposure to SDA has been the character of Lane Kim on Gilmore Girls. And I may have worked with some sisters who followed SDA (they were definitely some kind of fundie) but they never talked to me about their religion.

Conversion is a big part of Adventism -- but for me and my own experience, it seemed more of a "missionary" focus. Many, many SDA youth go out on student missionary trips - DH went to Guam, several of my friends went to Japan, Guam, other islands in the south pacific, Africa, etc. DH's family is a missionary family and his grandparents and many aunts/uncles were missionaries in Indonesia. My father's parents were missionaries in the Sierra Leone in the very early 20th cen. "So every ear will hear" is an important concept - I was taught that Jesus will not return until every person has a chance to hear the "truth" and make a choice, so we must go out and share the gospel. Many SDA physicians are trained as such to "spread the healing gospel of Jesus Christ" and, in fact, that is a major mission of the SDA church and they have a very rich medical mission (and training) program.

Most SDAs will not hound you, though, for conversion. If you have an SDA school close to you (an "Academy") their kids may come around selling shit like cookbooks and candy but that's not different than many other schools doing fundraisers - just be watchful that you don't buy a cookbook for your dog with vegetarian food. (yes, I have one.)

[bionicmlle]

FYI -- I just recently received a reply from the church on my dis-enrollment from membership. I am officially no longer a member (due to many issues, mostly the church's stance on LGBT issues). It was an odd feeling - happy and also kind of lonely.

If anyone here is interested in SDA + LGBT issues, I strongly suggest watching the documentary Seventh-Gay Adventist. The film-makers are fabulous people, the subjects were very generous in allowing this look in their life and it is a good and fair look and the issues.

ETA: Many of us wayward adventists refer to ourselves as "Badventists" :shifty-kitty:

[Trynn]

Man, I wanted my membership removed from the books, but they never did.

[Jasmar]

Trynn, thank you for sharing what you have. I don't have a lot of words at the moment, rushing out the door, but I did want to tell you I think you're so brave for surviving and sharing.

[bionicmlle]

Man, I wanted my membership removed from the books, but they never did.

Trynn-- I wrote a very direct letter to the church board where my membership was held. I think you can also write directly to the conference because I know you had some issues with the original church. I don't think they can deny but it does have to go through a vote at quarterly board meeting.

[Geechee Girl]

Trynn, I appreciate your willingness to share your story. Thank you for bearing through the difficulty to help us learn more about your experience. :group-hug:

[goldbu]

Trynn, I PMed you more details!

[2xx1xy1JD]

I had no idea what the actual doctrines were, so thanks for sharing. I've had SDA colleagues and clients, and my discussions with them were just on the practical issues like holidays, diet and Sabbath.

What holidays do SDAs celebrate?

We did talk about how some things were similar, but not identical, to Jewish practices. I know one SDA woman who lives in an Orthodox Jewish area. So, lots of Saturday Sabbath observers around, but they will ask her to do specific things like turn on a stove or light, which is forbidden for Jews on the Sabbath but not SDAs. I also remember getting an SDA cookbook when I was in my vegetarian phase.

[Micah]

I know when I was a kid we weren't allowed to do ANYTHING on the Sabbath. No reading, except the Bible, no cooking, no chores, no playing with toys. I used to dread Saturdays they were so unbelievably boring!

[Jasmar]

Two of my kids briefly attended a co-op led by and housed in an SDA church last fall. We only lasted six weeks after experiencing a very weird combination of love-bombing, authoritarianism, and subtle abuse. It wasn't an academy or an official school, but although they only had classes three days a week, they had a TON of homework - more than an additional two days' worth, so it really was a full time thing.

The leader had grown up attending boarding academies, which has described as pretty abusive. Lots of legalism and harsh consequences for minor infractions. Unfortunately, he seems to have passed it on to the next generation, although I couldn't identify it clearly for over a month because of the intensely emotionally intimate "support" he gave.

My kids were regularly shamed for eating meat, told they could make presentations to the group explaining their nutritional reasons for doing so, then were told they had bad attitudes when they came prepared to do it.

My third kid was told they could participate in elective classes, and just to show up, then when we did, was jerked around by one of the teachers who resented it and finally bumped down to the beginner group for everything, despite having more experience than all but one other kid in the co-op. We eventually found out the director had told us one thing, and the board and teachers something completely different, so huge lack of integrity.

The director's constant refrain to new parents was "just trust me," to try to head off legitimate concerns about some pretty abusive crap. He did an exercise at the end of each year, before packing up the kids for a yearly cross-country road trip where only certain approved parents were allowed to come along: he told them all year that at the end of the year, they would do a challenge course where they would be blindfolded, then led barefoot through a room full of open mousetraps. They were required to "trust" him. The catch, which they would not learn until afterwards, was that the mousetraps were actually all sprung. Parents were told this would teach them to push through fear.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, and weird, abusive educational programs are of course not endemic to SDA (afaik). But the director's abusiveness seems so clearly tied to his own experiences growing up in the SDA educational system that I thought it was relevant. His opinion was the the whole SDA boarding academy system was abusive and negative.

[bionicmlle]

Two of my kids briefly attended a co-op led by and housed in an SDA church last fall. We only lasted six weeks after experiencing a very weird combination of love-bombing, authoritarianism, and subtle abuse. It wasn't an academy or an official school, but although they only had classes three days a week, they had a TON of homework - more than an additional two days' worth, so it really was a full time thing.

The leader had grown up attending boarding academies, which has described as pretty abusive. Lots of legalism and harsh consequences for minor infractions. Unfortunately, he seems to have passed it on to the next generation, although I couldn't identify it clearly for over a month because of the intensely emotionally intimate "support" he gave.

My kids were regularly shamed for eating meat, told they could make presentations to the group explaining their nutritional reasons for doing so, then were told they had bad attitudes when they came prepared to do it.

My third kid was told they could participate in elective classes, and just to show up, then when we did, was jerked around by one of the teachers who resented it and finally bumped down to the beginner group for everything, despite having more experience than all but one other kid in the co-op. We eventually found out the director had told us one thing, and the board and teachers something completely different, so huge lack of integrity.

The director's constant refrain to new parents was "just trust me," to try to head off legitimate concerns about some pretty abusive crap. He did an exercise at the end of each year, before packing up the kids for a yearly cross-country road trip where only certain approved parents were allowed to come along: he told them all year that at the end of the year, they would do a challenge course where they would be blindfolded, then led barefoot through a room full of open mousetraps. They were required to "trust" him. The catch, which they would not learn until afterwards, was that the mousetraps were actually all sprung. Parents were told this would teach them to push through fear.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, and weird, abusive educational programs are of course not endemic to SDA (afaik). But the director's abusiveness seems so clearly tied to his own experiences growing up in the SDA educational system that I thought it was relevant. His opinion was the the whole SDA boarding academy system was abusive and negative.

I went to SDA boarding academy and I think all of the above is incredibly fucked up. Although no meat was ever served, I have never, ever been shamed for being from a family that ate (clean) meat (although I am sure there would have been shaming for pork products....) and never the abusive mousetrap bullshit in my experience and I am old enough to have children old enough to be in boarding academy, themselves. We definitely had rules and consequences (I got in trouble for being alone, under a secluded tree in a girls-only area with a boyfriend in high school and couldn't talk to or communicate with any boy for 2 weeks.... but that's it).

[Jasmar]

Yeah, it was a weird experience. He was so adamant about abusive boarding academies being prevalent! But the model he based the co-op on was actually developed by some non-SDA guy on the east coast, who came up with a character-based school program for delinquents. That program, when I read the book by the originator, looked decent: It laid out clear expectations and wasn't punishment- or shame-based, iirc. The director of the our co-op seemed to put that program on steroids.

So much of what my kids experienced was really covert, and I know quite a few people who had participated who are brainwashed by this guy. They speak of him in awed, reverential terms, and vigorously defend him when I explain why we left (only after being asked, I might add). I think the only reason I figured out the dynamic as quickly as I did was because this guy is a LOT like my to-be-ex. I was starting to come out of the fog with my marriage at the same time I was questioning the cult of personality, covert abuse, and unthinking loyalty of the co-op.

I know some people who go to that church who are awesome, lovely people. Some of their kids attended the largest local SDA academy for high school and are now off in various colleges around the country. They had excellent experiences with academy, but also had issues with the co-op (despite one of the moms being the algebra and geometry teacher).

It was the closest I've ever been to being in a cult. It was textbook cult tactics, being sucked in by the love-bombing (including some of the long-time parents in addition to the director), then alternately punished or rewarded with no predictable pattern, and being set up to fail, heavily berated in public, then comforted - deliberately creating Stockholm Syndrome. And it was directed at the whole family, not just the students. It was freaky.

[Trynn]

I'm sorry, I can't deal with talking about this anymore. I told some details to a co worker and she gave me a hug and told me to go hjide in the freezer till I could stop crying. She's not usually that... what's the word I'm looking for... it was a tiny bit out of character. So, yeah.

Frankly, I get sick of it every time SDAism comes up, so I wish this thread would get stickied, because then people could come here instead of me having to talk about my experiences over and over and over until I feel like just....

I'm sorry. I probably will post more details later, but I wish this thread could be stickied so people could just come here, read my story, and have that be it.

That way, people would also always have access to information.

[Kitchen Princess]

Just stop talking about it if it makes you feel bad. It doesn't need to be stickied. The search function works very well.

[Bethella]

I'm sorry, I can't deal with talking about this anymore. I told some details to a co worker and she gave me a hug and told me to go hjide in the freezer till I could stop crying. She's not usually that... what's the word I'm looking for... it was a tiny bit out of character. So, yeah.

Frankly, I get sick of it every time SDAism comes up, so I wish this thread would get stickied, because then people could come here instead of me having to talk about my experiences over and over and over until I feel like just....

I'm sorry. I probably will post more details later, but I wish this thread could be stickied so people could just come here, read my story, and have that be it.

That way, people would also always have access to information.

Trynn, you should go take care of yourself. Don't worry about us, we can find other ways to satisfy our curiosity.

[Talitha Cumi]

I'm sorry, I can't deal with talking about this anymore. I told some details to a co worker and she gave me a hug and told me to go hjide in the freezer till I could stop crying. She's not usually that... what's the word I'm looking for... it was a tiny bit out of character. So, yeah.

Frankly, I get sick of it every time SDAism comes up, so I wish this thread would get stickied, because then people could come here instead of me having to talk about my experiences over and over and over until I feel like just....

I'm sorry. I probably will post more details later, but I wish this thread could be stickied so people could just come here, read my story, and have that be it.

That way, people would also always have access to information.

You really don't have to. There are enough of us that others can answer questions. I don't have any trauma related to Adventism, so please don't think that you have to cover it all, ok? :hug:

[Talitha Cumi]

I had no idea what the actual doctrines were, so thanks for sharing. I've had SDA colleagues and clients, and my discussions with them were just on the practical issues like holidays, diet and Sabbath.

What holidays do SDAs celebrate?

We did talk about how some things were similar, but not identical, to Jewish practices. I know one SDA woman who lives in an Orthodox Jewish area. So, lots of Saturday Sabbath observers around, but they will ask her to do specific things like turn on a stove or light, which is forbidden for Jews on the Sabbath but not SDAs. I also remember getting an SDA cookbook when I was in my vegetarian phase.

SDAs celebrate all the holidays. No "Christmas is pagan!" or anything. I love going to Christmas services, because there's usually good music.

I remember feeling guilty for not enjoying Sabbath, because we couldn't watch TV or swim or read books other than Christian books. I felt like Sabbath was supposed to be a blessing day, and I was a bad person for not enjoying it.

Hahahaha, let me tell you about the worst Sabbath...

I was in an orchestra called the New England Youth Ensemble. It's famous in Adventist circles. The director was this little old hunched-over lady who was kind of psycho about music. We were playing a Carnegie concert under John Rutter in a very warm May, and had slept all night on the floor of an un-airconditioned church. In the morning, we were told that because it was the Sabbath, we had to wear our orchestra uniforms to rehearsal, and for the rest of the day. (How do those two things fit together? Very tenuously. Basically, it was to ensure we were wearing nice clothes like we'd wear to church, instead of comfortable clothes. We weren't at church. We weren't going to be at church. Adventists change out of the nice clothes after church, so this? Idek.)

It was hot. We were cranky. A bunch of us decided not to do it, because it was such a fucking stupid thing. Those who played important instruments (trumpet, percussion) got away with it. Those who didn't (second violins, third chair flute) got reprimanded and told to change. I refused to change. I got kicked out of the group. I'd been planning to leave anyway, so whatever. But it was so stupid!