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Boy Charged For Desecration Of Jesus Statue


doggie

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I found the photo and act to be a deliberately vulgar, immature act. There are ways to express that you don't like Jesus without having to use an image of something that others might consider to be holy in such a way. *and that goes for all symbols of all religions*

Even so, as pointed out upthread, it was private property and that is the difference. If it's your own property, do whatever you want with it and if I find it to be crude and vulgar and deliberately shocking, then I'll pass on by and draw more of a conclusion about the person doing the action than I will about the object itself (and will probably do my best to stay out of his/her way).

Two things: I really doubt that the kid was even trying to express that he didn't like Jesus. I mean, being as this is the US, there is a good chance the kid even identifies as Christian. He just saw a statue on its knees and thought that it would be hilarious to make it look like the statue was giving a blow job. Because he's 14. I think that in the US, we might stop and think more (be more deliberate) in regards to non-Christian religions because they are more foreign. So I think someone would be less likely to accidentally be disrespectful of another religion's icons. Though because Christianity is "acceptable" in the US, they may be more likely to be purposefully disrespectful of another religion's icons.

I guess an example would be that if I saw someone peeing on a church, I'd think they were a drunk idiot. If I saw someone peeing on a mosque or synagogue, I would likely assume anti-Muslim or anti-Semitic intentions.

Second thing... I'm not sure if this is what you were saying or not, but the statue wasn't his property. It belonged to a local religious group, I think. Whether or not someone owns the item in question does change the response, I think.

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And now all I can think is that this some kid, possibly drunk, who probably had no thought in his head other than ..." Ha, ha, blow job! Funny! Look cool on Facebook! " and now has all this conversation about the political and sociological ramifications of his random prank.... And the entire issue is likely waaaaayyyyy over his head.

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I really doubt that the kid was even trying to express that he didn't like Jesus. I mean, being as this is the US, there is a good chance the kid even identifies as Christian. He just saw a statue on its knees and thought that it would be hilarious to make it look like the statue was giving a blow job. Because he's 14.

thank you, firiel, this is about exactly what i was trying to say, but was having trouble wording at the time. the fact that it was jesus may have added to the "hilarious" factor to him, too.

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This is a bit overblown (couldn't resist! :D )

My take is that what he did was in poor taste- not because it's a statue of Jesus, but because of the act he is simulating. Is this something a lot of boys his age would find funny? Probably. The discretion to not photograph the incident and let it get out into the media would have served him well.

Luckily, poor taste is not illegal. If this was on someone else's property, then he should receive a formal trespass warning. That will send a message to all the other unsupervised juvenile comedians in the area to steer clear.

I think the response from a legal standpoint should be the same regardless of what the statue is of. If this had been a statue of Santa Claus or a college mascot- I would still find it disrespectful and still think that a trespass warning should be issued. I think pressing charges and sending this kid to court is just beyond what is necessary to teach him a lesson.

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i would like to know what this da would do if this kid pulled the same stunt with a statue of odin. hmm, methinks he would laugh it off.

I have a question about paganism, knowing that you are a pagan from other threads.

Do you believe in Odin/Thor/other ancient gods as a personal entity the way traditional Christians (or Muslims or Jews) see God as one? Or do see them as figurative representations of natural forces or what?

I'm sure not all pagans are alike in this. What are the most common approaches?

If you don't mind answering, that is. :)

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We've had cases here of cemetery vandalism, vandalism on places of worship (Jewish, Muslim, etc.) and so on. While I first thought that the law sounded ridiculous, when I actually read what it said, it made some sense.

Yes, OF COURSE all religious places and objects should receive the same protection under this law. It would be just as offensive for a Christian teen to urinate on a statue of Ganesh, for example.

I'm wondering if they will argue about the meaning of desecration? No actual damage was done here.

The most ironic part, for me, is that in this particular case, the charges are actually compounding any alleged damage. I don't know how many people would have seen the original Facebook photo, but now that photo is going viral because of the publicity with the charges. Wouldn't that cause more offense?

I couldn't give a shit about the personal life of a prosecutor (*unless he commits actual crimes, like in the Barbour case).

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I have a question about paganism, knowing that you are a pagan from other threads.

Do you believe in Odin/Thor/other ancient gods as a personal entity the way traditional Christians (or Muslims or Jews) see God as one? Or do see them as figurative representations of natural forces or what?

I'm sure not all pagans are alike in this. What are the most common approaches?

If you don't mind answering, that is. :)

i don't mind answering :)

just as a preface, though, for other people reading...i certainly do not think or want to in any way insinuate that my beliefs are commonly held by pagans. there are many paths, and i myself have a rather interesting view of gods that i have come to out of my own soul searching.

my view of the gods is that they are all real, and that they interact with each other and with people as they see fit. i believe some people are just naturally drawn to certain god/gods/goddess/goddesses and some to none at all. i believe in reincarnation, but i believe there is a bit of a choice in that as well. basically, the afterlife is what you make of it. if you expect to go to the christian heaven, that's where you'll go. if you expect to go to valhalla or the asphodel meadows or even purgatory, then that's where you'll go, if you choose to not be reincarnated.

i know that sounds weird, especially when written out like that, and i certainly don't expect anyone to believe the same way i do, even other pagans. this is just the conclusion i arrived at after years and years of soul searching and researching other religions. i hope i adequately answered your question. if not, i'd be more than happy to answer any follow-up or any other questions you might have.

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i don't mind answering :)

just as a preface, though, for other people reading...i certainly do not think or want to in any way insinuate that my beliefs are commonly held by pagans. there are many paths, and i myself have a rather interesting view of gods that i have come to out of my own soul searching.

my view of the gods is that they are all real, and that they interact with each other and with people as they see fit. i believe some people are just naturally drawn to certain god/gods/goddess/goddesses and some to none at all. i believe in reincarnation, but i believe there is a bit of a choice in that as well. basically, the afterlife is what you make of it. if you expect to go to the christian heaven, that's where you'll go. if you expect to go to valhalla or the asphodel meadows or even purgatory, then that's where you'll go, if you choose to not be reincarnated.

i know that sounds weird, especially when written out like that, and i certainly don't expect anyone to believe the same way i do, even other pagans. this is just the conclusion i arrived at after years and years of soul searching and researching other religions. i hope i adequately answered your question. if not, i'd be more than happy to answer any follow-up or any other questions you might have.

Thanks!

So, there have been A LOT of gods described through various cultures at various times. Do you believe in an overlap, kind of like the Greek and Roman gods? So, like, when two cultures on the opposite sides of the world have the idea of a god of thunder or lightning, those are just two different names for the same entity?

And I don't think the expectations thing sounds weird. There's a lot of philosophy and ideas that deal with expectations creating reality, I think.

Do you celebrate the pagan holidays? What (if any) rituals do you do? My friend celebrated all the major pagan holidays for a year, and it seemed like there were SO MANY FEASTS.

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Thanks!

So, there have been A LOT of gods described through various cultures at various times. Do you believe in an overlap, kind of like the Greek and Roman gods? So, like, when two cultures on the opposite sides of the world have the idea of a god of thunder or lightning, those are just two different names for the same entity?

And I don't think the expectations thing sounds weird. There's a lot of philosophy and ideas that deal with expectations creating reality, I think.

Do you celebrate the pagan holidays? What (if any) rituals do you do? My friend celebrated all the major pagan holidays for a year, and it seemed like there were SO MANY FEASTS.

i think all the pantheons are separate, though in the greek and roman cases, they were just blatantly renamed, pretty much. which, i don't think they care too much about. :P

i don't celebrate all the holidays, as there are a LOT, but i celebrate the ones that speak to me, like yule, samhain, and beltane. rituals, i don't personally do much of, because i'm afraid i'll get to the point where i'm just "going through the motions" like i was toward the end of my christianity. i'm more of the mind that the inner journey is more important, so if i were to participate in a holiday or go through a ritual and not be whole-heartedly into it, then i might as well not do it at all. any outward manifestation should match the inner feelings and beliefs.

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I think that sounds beautiful.

I am Christian but as far from fundies as it's possible to be. For example; I think the bible is written by men trying to understand something they saw but didn't actually understand. For that reason, I am sure there are mistakes both in what is written and in how we understand it. (That sound you hear is every fundy's brain exploding - a Christian who thinks the bible might have mistakes - the horror!) I know that Jews, Christians and Muslims all follow the same God. I know this God as a kind, loving God so I really struggle with teachings along the lines of "If you don't know Jesus, you're going to hell." I don't accept that a kind, loving God would send someone to hell if, for example, they had grown up in an environment where there was no possibility of hearing about Jesus. I therefore assume this is one of those areas where we have mistakes in our teachings and writings. Where Hindus, Pagans, Atheists, etc fit in, I don't know. Your ideas are very interesting to me.

As for this lad - he's a teenager doing a stupid thing as teenagers tend to do. It's to do with brain development and impulse control. Are charges really necessary? I'm sure if it happened here he would get a formal caution and told not to be so stupid in the future.

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The boy's parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins, coaches, teachers, peers have all seen the picture on the news and heard various people discussing how to punish him. That's probably embarrassing and alone is enough to teach him a lesson about violating people's property and posting on Facebook.

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The boy's parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins, coaches, teachers, peers have all seen the picture on the news and heard various people discussing how to punish him. That's probably embarrassing and alone is enough to teach him a lesson about violating people's property and posting on Facebook.

At this point, his peers and buddies probably think this is hilarious. If I was his parents, I would have gotten on to him for trespassing, but would be defending him against criminal charges for desecrations since there was no damage. All this court will will teach him is he better hold Christian statues in reverence or else he'll get in trouble.

We are in a country where a large number of people swear that a black president whose father is from Kenya must be a Muslim, and so should be impeached because we can't have a Muslim in the White House, and that's just fine, but a kid deciding it would be funny to pretend to get a blow job from a statue calls for making a criminal out of him because OMG he was disrespecting a religion! Funny how it's not disrespecting a religion to call for impeachment of a politician because some people swear he must be a different religion than Christian.

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At this point, his peers and buddies probably think this is hilarious. If I was his parents, I would have gotten on to him for trespassing, but would be defending him against criminal charges for desecrations since there was no damage. All this court will will teach him is he better hold Christian statues in reverence or else he'll get in trouble.

We are in a country where a large number of people swear that a black president whose father is from Kenya must be a Muslim, and so should be impeached because we can't have a Muslim in the White House, and that's just fine, but a kid deciding it would be funny to pretend to get a blow job from a statue calls for making a criminal out of him because OMG he was disrespecting a religion! Funny how it's not disrespecting a religion to call for impeachment of a politician because some people swear he must be a different religion than Christian.

The calls for impeachment have not been because he is perceived to be of another religious tradition by a small percentage of whack jobs or because of the birthers. They have been based on his policies, and, quite frankly, on his party affiliation. I think they have an undercurrent of racism, but that that would be the case, at this point in time, with any president who is not white. And I think we will see the same kind of response to the first woman president if she is a Democratic (at this point in time, I don't see that the Democratic party would go there if she is a Republican).

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The calls for impeachment have not been because he is perceived to be of another religious tradition by a small percentage of whack jobs or because of the birthers. They have been based on his policies, and, quite frankly, on his party affiliation. I think they have an undercurrent of racism, but that that would be the case, at this point in time, with any president who is not white. And I think we will see the same kind of response to the first woman president if she is a Democratic (at this point in time, I don't see that the Democratic party would go there if she is a Republican).

I know some Tea Partiers who think all Muslims (in this case, perceived) should be banned from political office. There are openly people who think he can't be American because he couldn't possibly have been born in the US because he's not white or something, and there are some who think he's a Muslim and all Muslims are terrorists, and some who do both. If Islam wasn't discriminated against so heavily and largely allowed to be insulted, then there'd be a larger outcry of people drowning them out. How long do you think anyone would get away with making a national deal out of how someone is a Christian? There's a Christian guy running for senate, I think, in Kentucky, with the slogan, "With Jews, we lose." He's gotten some praise for his willingness to speak his (anti-semitic) views. Would there be any praise for a Jewish person saying "With Christians, we lose"? No. Who cares about minority religions, but you better revere Christianity.

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I know some Tea Partiers who think all Muslims (in this case, perceived) should be banned from political office. There are openly people who think he can't be American because he couldn't possibly have been born in the US because he's not white or something, and there are some who think he's a Muslim and all Muslims are terrorists, and some who do both. If Islam wasn't discriminated against so heavily and largely allowed to be insulted, then there'd be a larger outcry of people drowning them out. How long do you think anyone would get away with making a national deal out of how someone is a Christian? There's a Christian guy running for senate, I think, in Kentucky, with the slogan, "With Jews, we lose." He's gotten some praise for his willingness to speak his (anti-semitic) views. Would there be any praise for a Jewish person saying "With Christians, we lose"? No. Who cares about minority religions, but you better revere Christianity.

I've heard that Obama has more Arab ancestry than "black" and that his father's side of the family was Muslim. Not that that should disqualify him for being president, but it's not like the people claiming he's a Muslim are just taking a random Christian guy from a Christian family and saying "he's Muslim because he's black".

One of the shows I used to love back when I had a television was Southpark, and they got to make fun of Mormons, Catholics, Atheists, Jews, and everyone else, until they made fun of Muslims. Then the Muslims in America basically said they can't take criticism and if they get made fun of they'll murder people, and Comedy Central bowed to them and didn't publish that episode. That's just sick. They get the kid gloves because they threatened terrorism.

I'm very pro free speech, and if someone said "With Jews, we lose", instead of getting mad, I'd turn it around if I were campaigning for the other guy and say "With Jews we lose the deficit! With Jews we lose poverty! With Jews we lose poor education!", etc.

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What the South Park debacle was about was the visual depiction of Mohammed. I think Family Guy had a similar problem. The ones claiming they'll kill the writers were extremists overseas. They can be compared in a way to Bloody Mary, who was reported to have executed people who didn't properly revere a communion cracker.

If Obama had the same ancestry, but his skin was white, do you really think anyone would be talking about how a white-looking guy must be a Muslim? No. He's got darker skin, which is being used to say he's a Muslim, so must be anti-American. Even if we take his name out of this, the insinuation is still that Islam is anti-American, and Christianity, at least if you're white, is the American way.

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This whole Obama isn't an American and is Muslim bullshit is a moot point. Hey, Tea Party, get over it already!

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The calls for impeachment have not been because he is perceived to be of another religious tradition by a small percentage of whack jobs or because of the birthers. They have been based on his policies, and, quite frankly, on his party affiliation. I think they have an undercurrent of racism, but that that would be the case, at this point in time, with any president who is not white. And I think we will see the same kind of response to the first woman president if she is a Democratic (at this point in time, I don't see that the Democratic party would go there if she is a Republican).

It's more than an undercurrent of racism. It's blatant. And you best believe there will be blatant sexism for a female president

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What the South Park debacle was about was the visual depiction of Mohammed. I think Family Guy had a similar problem. The ones claiming they'll kill the writers were extremists overseas. They can be compared in a way to Bloody Mary, who was reported to have executed people who didn't properly revere a communion cracker.

I'm pretty sure the ones saying they'd kill people if the episodes were published were Americans, and I'll look it up later.

If Obama had the same ancestry, but his skin was white, do you really think anyone would be talking about how a white-looking guy must be a Muslim?

Yes. On Stormcunt (at least when I was reading around 2011) they see pictures of blonde haired, blue eyed Jews and moan about how the Jews "stole" white peoples' genetics. They don't consider anyone with more than 1/16 "non-white" blood to be white, and Jews are considered "non-white" even if the mirror clearly indicates otherwise. For instance, they don't consider Bar Refaeli to be white, and she looks like this (pretty sure the blonde hair isn't natural, but still)

bar-refaeli-2014-instagram-1.jpg

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