How undereducated are Christian Fundie homeschoolers?

[RosyDaisy]

Alabama has no standardized testing requirements for homeschoolers at all.

FACT! It further proves that Alabama doesn't give a shit about education!

[Coco]

oh snap, notice to all the fundie parents who think they can homeschool using only the Bible:

Got an email from the uber-creationist site Answers in Genesis says the Bible is not a science textbook! :lol:

answersingenesis.org/what-is-science/science-of-uncertainty/?utm_source=homepage&utm_medium=featured-slider&utm_campaign=science-of-uncertainty

But the article goes on to say:

The history in the Bible—information concerning the Creation, the global Flood, and the age of the earth, for instance—is a reliable yardstick by which to evaluate many scientific theories and eliminate those that clearly violate God’s account of our past.

:evil-eye: :evil-eye: :evil-eye:

[formergothardite]

So the whole thing is based on two people who grew up homeschooled and didn't like it? That's the basis for painting a broad brush of criticism over everyone else?

Well my my. Let's find ourselves some public school graduates who disliked attending public school. Let's pretend that every single public school teacher is competent and qualified and able. Let's pretend that public schools never fail their students.

How about stop looking for a crisis where none exists?

How do you know the crisis doesn't exist? There is so little oversight of homeschooling that no one actually knows how many homeschoolers do a great job and how many are just not teaching their children and getting away with it. Deflecting the conversation to discuss problems with public school is something that almost always happens when people start trying to have a discussion about homeschooling, so I'm not going to address any of that because the problems with public school is an entirely different subject.

I was homeschooled and, at the time my parents started, the laws were more strict. My mother did an excellent job homeschooling, but it was hard work to do so. She also had no issue with any of the stricter laws because to her it made sense that people needed to make sure homeschoolers were actually teaching their children. The only real failing with my education was with science and biology. Getting to college and finding out that there is considerable more to evolution than "it is a lie from Satan" and more to how the earth formed than "God did it. Don't question that." was a challenge. But if I had gone to a Christian school I probably would have gotten just as bad an education in these subjects.

It is not an attack on homeschooling to want to discuss some of the problems with homeschooling laws and lack of oversight. There is enough anecdotal evidence out there of children whose parents used the giant loop holes to not educate their children, that this is really something that should be looked into. I'm not anti-homeschooling, in a couple of years there is a good chance that I might start homeschooling my oldest. I am anti-having no oversight for homeschoolers. Homeschooling has been an educational option for a good long time and there is simply no excuse for us not being able to see how homeschoolers are doing education wise.

[nelliebelle1197]

How do you know the crisis doesn't exist? There is so little oversight of homeschooling that no one actually knows how many homeschoolers do a great job and how many are just not teaching their children and getting away with it. Deflecting the conversation to discuss problems with public school is something that almost always happens when people start trying to have a discussion about homeschooling, so I'm not going to address any of that because the problems with public school is an entirely different subject.

I was homeschooled and, at the time my parents started, the laws were more strict. My mother did an excellent job homeschooling, but it was hard work to do so. She also had no issue with any of the stricter laws because to her it made sense that people needed to make sure homeschoolers were actually teaching their children. The only real failing with my education was with science and biology. Getting to college and finding out that there is considerable more to evolution than "it is a lie from Satan" and more to how the earth formed than "God did it. Don't question that." was a challenge. But if I had gone to a Christian school I probably would have gotten just as bad an education in these subjects.

It is not an attack on homeschooling to want to discuss some of the problems with homeschooling laws and lack of oversight. There is enough anecdotal evidence out there of children whose parents used the giant loop holes to not educate their children, that this is really something that should be looked into. I'm not anti-homeschooling, in a couple of years there is a good chance that I might start homeschooling my oldest. I am anti-having no oversight for homeschoolers. Homeschooling has been an educational option for a good long time and there is simply no excuse for us not being able to see how homeschoolers are doing education wise.

Great post. I guess someplace like Homeschoolers Anonymous exists because there is absolutely nothing wrong with certain homeschool families, huh?

[formergothardite]

darcysheartstirrings.blogspot.com/2014/08/we-are-not-threat.html

There's a new threat to homeschooling, folks! That's right, and it isn't the evil government or liberal feminists or Satan. The homeschooling apocalypse will be ushered in because of....*drum roll*.....

The Homeschool Alumni.

Yup. Those pesky people who just won't keep silent about their upbringing. Who dare to tell their not-so-happy stories, the good, bad, and ugly. Who dare to paint big, bold, dark colors on the beautiful Thomas-Kincaid-like portraits of homeschooling. Who dare to stop pretending that everything in their world was beauty and light and are exposing the ugly darkness.

If our stories of real-life experiences as homeschooled children, and the real-life effects of those experiences on us as adults, are a threat to you, then perhaps instead of trying to silence us, and instead of trying to discredit us, there should be some extreme makeover-type remodeling being considered within the homeschooling community

If you want to be sickened go read this transcript of Kevin Swanson discussing abuse in homeschooling. He and Ken Alexander are cut out of the same cloth.

http://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress ... l-neglect/

Steve: So yeah, how would you define spiritual abuse?

Kevin: Yeah! Or emotional abuse! What IS that? What exactly is that?

Steve: “Well she spoke harshly to me and used the Bible to let me know I was wrong, so I was spiritually and emotionally abused.â€

Kevin: Right, right! Someone came up to a rapist and said, “It’s wrong to rape!†(pretending to be rapist:) “Oh you’re abusing me! You’re abusing me! That’s not very grace-filled! You know, what in the world are you doing? Accusing me of sin? That’s terrible! Oh I’m so abused! I’m so abused

!â€

Steve: Yeah! “You need to honor your father and mother!†“Oh my!â€

(laughter)

Kevin: “I’ve been so abused…†(laughter) “…because this Christian is telling me that I’ve sinned against God and I need to repent.†Ok, so if that’s spiritual abuse… (laughter) …I don’t think the Apostle Paul would agree with you. Put it that way

.

But when someone says, I could have had a better education than that provided by my mother or by my father, that’s really, really, really hard to prove. How, how, how do you know that? Maybe it was a character problem on YOUR part. Maybe you didn’t obey your parents! Maybe you didn’t study your books like you were told to! And to think that you could have had a better education if you had done it this way versus that way is extremely hard to prove.

Steve: Because you can’t go back and do it that way!

Kevin: You can’t! (laughter) You can’t… and even if you could have, you would have dragged your same old person, with your same old character flaws, with your same old slothfulness issue, into the public school or private school setting or other setting ‚ and you could have done worse…

So this little whiner, talking about her bad experience with home education, um, you know she’s had 13 years to learn how to count.

Steve: Right!

Kevin: And to learn how to add. And still hasn’t happened. Sounds to me like there’s something wrong. With HER.

Steve: Yeah! Or she’s whining without any reason

I think WORLD Magazine should think biblically about these things. What does the Bible say about educational neglect? Again, look it up in the concordance! See, people aren’t used to that. Let me explain to you what a concordance is. A concordance is typically found in the back of a Bible. You can find them online. It’s called BibleHub.com. Go there. And… and you look up the word. “Educational neglect.†Look it up in the Bible. You say it’s not there? Yeah. Yeah, exactly! Why? Because it’s not an issue. What’s the issue?

[Rachel333]

So the whole thing is based on two people who grew up homeschooled and didn't like it? That's the basis for painting a broad brush of criticism over everyone else?

Well my my. Let's find ourselves some public school graduates who disliked attending public school. Let's pretend that every single public school teacher is competent and qualified and able. Let's pretend that public schools never fail their students.

How about stop looking for a crisis where none exists?

All those concerns about public schools are, deservedly, very frequently discussed and taken seriously, not simply met with, "Well homeschooling can be bad too."

[Antimony]

I went to public school so I don't really know buy I have two questions. Even when home schoolers are kept up to par, do they have like AP testing opportunities as often? Some schools even pay those fees now and they're a huge college advantage. I came into college with 37 credits and that's huge.

My other question -- how are science labs? I study chemistry and I'm not sure I would have loved it so young if it were only on paper. Some labs certainly cannot be done in a home and many chemicals high schools can buy cannot be purchased by just anyone. Same with biology and buying dead animals for anatomy labs. Are there co-ops that make this stuff kind of possible? I suppose many supplement with science museums but I did that with my parents anyway. I have a list of experiments that are safe for the home but they aren't really interesting past age 10.

If I had to guess at any subject religious home schoolers would be behind in, it would of course be science due to this evolution denial business.

On the other hand, I know some very incredible home schoolers but the parents both have advanced degrees. Their son is 13...and for a year I thought he was 17/18 because he comes off as much older. He also has the advantage of looking ambiguous in age, but they have done an incredible job.

[Soulhuntress]

Just like Public, Private, Parochial and Charter schools, the family and how they regard education is the biggest factor determining whether the kids are educated properly. And it is about the family choosing where and how they educate their kids (and evaluating the skills and needs of their kids). Just my opinion and Swanson is a putz

[formergothardite]

Just like Public, Private, Parochial and Charter schools, the family and how they regard education is the biggest factor determining whether the kids are educated properly. And it is about the family choosing where and how they educate their kids (and evaluating the skills and needs of their kids). Just my opinion and Swanson is a putz

One of the studies homeschoolers like to claim "proves" homeschooling is superior actually concluded that the children in the survey would have done well in any school situation and specifically said that the study should never be used to try and say that homeschoolers do better than children in public schools. People like Swanson and the HSLDA conveniently leave that out when they use the study.

The problem with just saying that parents can evaluate the skills and needs of their children is that there are parents who would evaluate their little girl, say there is no reason for her to know how to read or write and then never give her even the opportunity to learn. At this time in many states there is no way anyone would even know what the parents were doing and if they did, not teaching your children isn't illegal as long as you are saying you homeschool. In public school a child at least has the opportunity to be exposed to these things and there are safety net (they can fail because of funding and stupid law) that are there to try and help children who struggle. There is no safety net for homeschooled children and there is enough stories coming out about how parents used homeschooling as an excuse to keep their children ignorant that it is clear there needs to be some oversight.

[nelliebelle1197]

Just like Public, Private, Parochial and Charter schools, the family and how they regard education is the biggest factor determining whether the kids are educated properly. And it is about the family choosing where and how they educate their kids (and evaluating the skills and needs of their kids). Just my opinion and Swanson is a putz

So how are parents supposed to be able to analyze the educational needs of their children if they have no idea how to educate? How can a parent without any kind of background or experience in education make that decision? How can a parent who has no education herself evaluate the skills and needs of her child? If this is your opinion, then surely you have asked yourself these questions. I am curious about your answer.

Choosing the type of typically regulated school that meets at least minimum standards and usually has some sort of accreditation and oversight for your child to attend is a whole different thing than designing and implementing a k-12 education for a child or multiple children.

[Soulhuntress]

So how are parents supposed to be able to analyze the educational needs of their children if they have no idea how to educate? How can a parent without any kind of background or experience in education make that decision? How can a parent who has no education herself evaluate the skills and needs of her child? If this is your opinion, then surely you have asked yourself these questions. I am curious about your answer.

Choosing the type of typically regulated school that meets at least minimum standards and usually has some sort of accreditation and oversight for your child to attend is a whole different thing than designing and implementing a k-12 education for a child or multiple children.

Same way they choose a school (charter or public) and a family can tell when junior is talented in music or dance or hockey or STEM classes. Having a parent create an IEP is not even an option. And there are just as many chances to be negatively impacted by crap teachers as crap HS mommies. Both exist and both are damaging as hell

[Foudeb]

And there are just as many chances to be negatively impacted by crap teachers as crap HS mommies. Both exist and both are damaging as hell

I wouldn't agree - even if the proportion of bad teachers vs good teachers was similar to that of good homeschooling parents vs bad (unlikely as the teachers self-select - only those interested in teaching go on to teach - and are then specifically taught how to teach), homeschooling would still be worse. The point being that a kid can easily move on from a bad teacher - just wait to get in the next grade and get a new teacher - whereas a kid with a parent who is not a good homeschooler is stuck with them for the duration of their studies.

That's not to say there aren't great homeschooling parents, of course there are, the majority are I'm sure. But the damage a bad homeschooling parent can do is far worse than anything a bad public school system can do.

[Toothfairy]

I think homeschooling can work if done with right way. Not based on religion. You can make it apart of your curriculum but your kid needs other subjects to get through life. What I don't agree with is unschooling. I research and watch a show about it. Stupidest thing I ever heard.

[nelliebelle1197]

I think homeschooling can work if done with right way. Not based on religion. You can make it apart of your curriculum but your kid needs other subjects to get through life. What I don't agree with is unschooling. I research and watch a show about it. Stupidest thing I ever heard.

If you are talking Lauren unschooling then I agree. But a non religious friend of mine is homeschooling her 12 year old who has a 172 IQ and an autoimmune disease, factors that combine to make traditional school hard for him. She and her husband participate in a secular homeschool coop (so the kids are in a classroom three days a week) and do practice some unschooling. He thrives. I think if you mix unschooling principles in with traditional education, some kids can do really well.

[formergothardite]

Same way they choose a school (charter or public) and a family can tell when junior is talented in music or dance or hockey or STEM classes. Having a parent create an IEP is not even an option. And there are just as many chances to be negatively impacted by crap teachers as crap HS mommies. Both exist and both are damaging as hell

The problem is that there are parents who for whatever reason will not even attempt to do what is in the best interest of their child's education, and they will be homeschooling with, in many states, absolutely no oversight. There are some safety nets in public and private school. There are none in homeschooling. Parents think girls don't need to read and write, well, nobody is going to know and, even if they do, in many states there is nothing that can be done.

[Coco]

I went to public school so I don't really know buy I have two questions. Even when home schoolers are kept up to par, do they have like AP testing opportunities as often? Some schools even pay those fees now and they're a huge college advantage. I came into college with 37 credits and that's huge.

My other question -- how are science labs? I study chemistry and I'm not sure I would have loved it so young if it were only on paper. Some labs certainly cannot be done in a home and many chemicals high schools can buy cannot be purchased by just anyone. Same with biology and buying dead animals for anatomy labs. Are there co-ops that make this stuff kind of possible? I suppose many supplement with science museums but I did that with my parents anyway. I have a list of experiments that are safe for the home but they aren't really interesting past age 10.

If I had to guess at any subject religious home schoolers would be behind in, it would of course be science due to this evolution denial business.

On the other hand, I know some very incredible home schoolers but the parents both have advanced degrees. Their son is 13...and for a year I thought he was 17/18 because he comes off as much older. He also has the advantage of looking ambiguous in age, but they have done an incredible job.

My parents used supplies from this source in our homeschool, and we did dissections:

enasco.com/action/default

enasco.com/dissection/

We had a classroom grade microscope, beakers, vials, etc. My mom loves science, she did an excellent job considering her limitations. But our experience is probably not typical, especially in families with an overwhelming number of children of all ages and/or limited finances.

I love science too, especially biology. I still feel that a high school science lab and science teacher (whose main job is teaching science) would have been a better experience. There's only so much that even the most well-equipped homeschool mom can accomplish. Pulling out the rubbermaid container of science supplies just doesn't really satisfy. We were part of a co-op, but that was taught by other parents, with their full-time jobs and duties of being dads and moms to compete with their teaching. That was in the 90's; these days homeschools do have the advantage of the web and interactive programs. It is a better situation for homeschool students now. But imo kids interested in science should really be taking courses at the local high school or university.

So many fundie homeschool parents wave off the need for higher learning, thinking that their children can do fine to support a family with just the basics, and leave the professional skills to the "heathens". (or nominal Christians, in their view) :angry-banghead: Some fundie churches actually teach that higher learning is ungodly, and that going to a university would be a prideful thing. Especially being a girl, and a Mennonite girl, the options are limited. My mom pointed me in the direction of becoming a Master Gardener and learning the Science of Baking. (seriously) :lol: I just didn't see how that would turn into a profit, so i studied accounting. A lot of girls are left out in the dark by religious homeschooling parents. Girls don't need to know, because they're going to be homemakers. So much wasted potential in fundie girls.

eta: the Science of Baking book :D

amazon.com/Understanding-Baking-Art-Science-ebook/dp/B000PY4POI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1410742220&sr=8-1&keywords=Understanding+Baking%3A+The+Art+and+Science+of+Baking

[Alexandra]

Re: a couple of the homeschooling Q's... I wanted to chime in. I homeschool my daughter- she is a senior in high school. Science labs are something we purchase as part of her curriculum. For biology, as an example, she got a basic textbook and a "LabPaq". Same for chemistry. She is taking Physics this year and we are trying to figure out what to do for labs.

She also has access to AP's, though she has elected to not take the exams at this point (currently, all her classes are either college or AP level - she has just chosen to not have one test be the main decider on whether she did well in the class.)

We are secular homeschoolers, but are also Christian. We tried a christian curriculum once (sonlight)- we prefer secular... :-)

Anyway, just wanted to chime in.

[Kitchen Princess]

Well, in the absence of studies, many of us go on our own experience with homeschoolers. Off the top of my head I can think of three families, all fundy lite, who homeschool. One family participates in a co-op and makes sure that their children are up to speed in math and science (barring evolution, of course) with their public school peers. Their oldest is a college freshman. I would describe them as doing homeschool right.

The second family did great in English and history but nearly completely neglected math and science. I tutored one of their children through three semesters of remedial math in community college--that's what it took to get her qualified to take college algebra *after* she had "graduated" homeschool high school.

The third family is related to me. They are actually trying to make a business of their particular homeschool philosophy, which essentially boils down to unschooling although they would be offended at that term. As far as I can tell, their children only learn what they feel like learning, which seems mainly to be Legos and moviemaking. Judging from one of the children's FB pages, she has learned all the same punctuation and grammatical errors that her mother makes on her own blog. :doh: :doh: Their oldest two have College Minus "degrees" but have not actually tried to use said degrees in the real world.

One out of three is not very good.

What about all those public schooled kids who take remedial math to get into college algebra after high school?

My always-unschooled kid just transferred to a different, private college for his sophomore year, and is going for free on academic scholarship.

[VVV]

What about all those public schooled kids who take remedial math to get into college algebra after high school?

My always-unschooled kid just transferred to a different, private college for his sophomore year, and is going for free on academic scholarship.

This particular young lady who had to take three semesters of remedial math at the community college is extremely bright, and caught on quickly. I very much doubt that she would have had to take any remedial classes at all if she'd had proper math as a high school student. But when I first started working with her, she did not even know what the word "exponent" meant. That's not stupidity; that's ignorance, and that's inexcusable on the part of her parents.

As for the children of my family member....shudder....they are bright and talented, but they are shockingly ignorant in many regards. Unschooling done right, in my opinion, takes even more investment on the part of the parents than traditional homeschooling does. Clearly you did it right, but that doesn't mean that there aren't many homeschooling parents out there who neglect part or all of their children's education through ignorance, laziness, religious fanaticism, or some unfortunate combination of two or three. I've met some of these kids and obviously others have as well.

[formergothardite]

What about all those public schooled kids who take remedial math to get into college algebra after high school?

My always-unschooled kid just transferred to a different, private college for his sophomore year, and is going for free on academic scholarship.

Public school has its own set of issues, but they at least have oversight. And, at least in my state, when the yearly scores are released and a school is performing poorly there are steps that are taken to try and ensure that the school starts doing better. People are aware of the issue and they can try to do something. Now with the huge funding cuts to schools things are harder, but there is still oversight and a safety net. If a homeschool family is not teaching their children in my area, nobody will know or be able to do anything as long as they are turning in the right paperwork.

[BrownieMomma]

I have spent many years giving careful consideration to education, not only that of my own children but education in general.

One thing I wish people would understand is that what is needed and necessary to run an education system is needed and necessary to establish and maintain a system. This is for a group with many students. When you have small and private situations, such as a homeschool or even a private school, the same elements are not needed.

It is very easy to know what comprises a typical American education. There are many curriculums and books if the parents need ideas of what to do to educate their children. There are other homeschoolers to draw on. A degree in education serves no purpose, because the purpose of a degree in education is to produce teachers for a school system.

Lack of oversight? This implies the government is actually good at this education system and has some inalienable right to children. Well, no. I do not agree the government should have this right. We are Americans, the very crux of our existence is freedom and independence. My children are my children, I am not a womb-bearer for the state.

I lived in the ghetto for almost ten years while going to school and working. Yes, it took me that long to earn a bachelor's degree and then gain career employment and then the means to finally move out. I was surrounded by people who live off the government and absolutely give no craps about their children's education.

This evidenced itself in everything from young kids being outside unsupervised late into the night on school nights. In little boys going to elementary with their pants sagging below their butt. In the parental outrage that little Johnny had to put on a pair of sweatpants at school because little Johnny's ass and underwear were on display for all the world to see.

This assertion that no one should homeschool unless they are homeschooling the way YOU think is the right way is nothing more than a witch hunt.

Oh, you better believe there are some bad homeschoolers out there. There are also plenty of parents who send their kids to public school who are terrible, awful, no - good parents. My mother taught public school for 23 years and it was just appalling at how little value is placed on education in certain subcultures. Does that sound racist to you? More like educationist. I have friends of all colors but all of them are educated and share similar ideas on the importance of education.

My kids have suffered every single year because of how school is dumbed down. Oh yes, this is very true. My children attended the local public elementary, riding the bus right there in the ghetto. They were immersed in a definitely not white middle class life. They rarely had homework... because the school policy is to not issue homework due to the lack of support from home for the majority of the students.

My kids never had to make a poster. They never made a diorama. They did get some individual support from their teachers because you can imagine that my children were an oasis for their teachers but overall my kids missed a lot of "normal" experience because their entire school experience was lessened in order to accommodate all these children.

I am pretty darn sure that if you tested my kid's knowledge against those who attend much different school systems, my kids are going to come up short. Now if I could have homeschooled them, that would be a much different story.

I have known a fair number of homeschoolers. I do not always agree with their ideas of how to homeschool. I am quite suspicious of unschooling, for example. I do not know any who actually admitted to unschooling. But I do support their right to educate their children the way they see fit.

The crisis in education are the ghetto kids with parents, who are mostly just the moms very few dads around, who are themselves high school graduates with little actual education and a whole lot of attitude and disrespect to the school system. These are kids who are being failed by the bucketloads. A few Christian homeschoolers here and there who are not teaching their kids whatever it is you think is important is not the crisis.

Homeschooling is like the Internet, one of the last few free places on Earth. It is a beautiful thing that should be protected and celebrated, not hunted down and regulated by the government.

[formergothardite]

Homeschooling is a dark nightmare for a lot of children. This "freedom" for the parents means no safety for the children. The mother I know who I know whose child has a learning disability and she beats him for not being able to read, nobody is gong to help him. The little girls whose parents decided that girls don't need to learn to read and write, nobody is going to be there for them. Nobody is going to know. And if they did, it isn't like they can do anything.

My mother has been around and involved in the homechooling community since the early 80's. She started homeschooling in 1989 and did so up until the mid 2000's. She is a strong advocate for more homeschooling laws because what she has seen happening in the homeschool community. As more freedom was given to parents, more children suffered. It ends up the parents who aren't willing to comply with lots of laws so that they can homeschool are also often not willing to put in the hard work it takes to homeschool.

[Alexandra]

Homeschooling is like the Internet, one of the last few free places on Earth. It is a beautiful thing that should be protected and celebrated, not hunted down and regulated by the government.

Well said! (I only quoted a chunk of it because it was so long.)

I didn't start HSing my daughter because I believed in HSing, but because she was experiencing health issues and we needed to change her school situation - it was only supposed to be for one year.... But here we are, 5 years later, preparing college applications as homeschoolers. I'm so so thankful for HSing and the only time I find myself getting kind of flustered by the comments on FJ is when it comes to homeschooling- there often seems to be a blanket statement by many users that homeschooling is simply inadequate, and it can be frustrating to have fundie homeschoolers representing the homeschool community!

And I agree about the regulation issues - I am thankful to live in a state that only requires me to show them my curriculum at the beginning of each school year... I can't imagine having to do required testing, etc. so the idea of wanting more oversight has just never occurred to me! With that being said, I do appreciate that some of the more regulated states offer homeschoolers a state-issued diploma if all requirements are met.

[formergothardite]

Well said! (I only quoted a chunk of it because it was so long.)

I didn't start HSing my daughter because I believed in HSing, but because she was experiencing health issues and we needed to change her school situation - it was only supposed to be for one year.... But here we are, 5 years later, preparing college applications as homeschoolers. I'm so so thankful for HSing and the only time I find myself getting kind of flustered by the comments on FJ is when it comes to homeschooling- there often seems to be a blanket statement by many users that homeschooling is simply inadequate, and it can be frustrating to have fundie homeschoolers representing the homeschool community!

And I agree about the regulation issues - I am thankful to live in a state that only requires me to show them my curriculum at the beginning of each school year... I can't imagine having to do required testing, etc. so the idea of wanting more oversight has just never occurred to me! With that being said, I do appreciate that some of the more regulated states offer homeschoolers a state-issued diploma if all requirements are met.

But can you see it from the point of view of the former homeschoolers where the lack of regulation and oversight meant that their parents got away with not educating them? There is a reason FB is full of private and not private pages for former homeschool students to discuss the dark side of homeschooling. Homeschoolers Anonymous didn't get created because homeschooling is always a beautiful thing. I'm a member of several of these FB pages and the general feeling is that homeschool parents today just want the former homeschoolers to be quiet unless they are praising homeschooling. The bad stories are not seen as a reason to step back and see if the homeschool system needs to be changed, the stories are viewed as a threat to the freedom the parents have to do whatever they want with their children.

I'm going to post this again:

darcysheartstirrings.blogspot.com/2014/08/we-are-not-threat.html

Those pesky people who just won't keep silent about their upbringing. Who dare to tell their not-so-happy stories, the good, bad, and ugly. Who dare to paint big, bold, dark colors on the beautiful Thomas-Kincaid-like portraits of homeschooling. Who dare to stop pretending that everything in their world was beauty and light and are exposing the ugly darkness

If our stories of real-life experiences as homeschooled children, and the real-life effects of those experiences on us as adults, are a threat to you, then perhaps instead of trying to silence us, and instead of trying to discredit us, there should be some extreme makeover-type remodeling being considered within the homeschooling community

I was not one of those homeschoolers with a horrible experience, but I've read enough stories to know that it is a lie that homeschooling is always a beautiful, wonderful thing for the child and that these homeschool children don't need a safety net.

[Alexandra]

But can you see it from the point of view of the former homeschoolers where the lack of regulation and oversight meant that their parents got away with not educating them? There is a reason FB is full of private and not private pages for former homeschool students to discuss the dark side of homeschooling. Homeschoolers Anonymous didn't get created because homeschooling is always a beautiful thing. I'm a member of several of these FB pages and the general feeling is that homeschool parents today just want the former homeschoolers to be quiet unless they are praising homeschooling. The bad stories are not seen as a reason to step back and see if the homeschool system needs to be changed, the stories are viewed as a threat to the freedom the parents have to do whatever they want with their children.

I'm going to post this again:

darcysheartstirrings.blogspot.com/2014/08/we-are-not-threat.html

Those pesky people who just won't keep silent about their upbringing. Who dare to tell their not-so-happy stories, the good, bad, and ugly. Who dare to paint big, bold, dark colors on the beautiful Thomas-Kincaid-like portraits of homeschooling. Who dare to stop pretending that everything in their world was beauty and light and are exposing the ugly darkness

If our stories of real-life experiences as homeschooled children, and the real-life effects of those experiences on us as adults, are a threat to you, then perhaps instead of trying to silence us, and instead of trying to discredit us, there should be some extreme makeover-type remodeling being considered within the homeschooling community

I was not one of those homeschoolers with a horrible experience, but I've read enough stories to know that it is a lie that homeschooling is always a beautiful, wonderful thing for the child and that these homeschool children don't need a safety net.

Yes, I can absolutely see where children who were hurt by the lack of oversight could desire more regulations. If you see at the bottom of my post, I am not 100% against more oversight- I do think it can be beneficial in some areas, though I tend to not like the idea of it that much. In a perfect world, there would be a great balance between the two... I am a bit wary of more oversight because in order to protect children in families where their education is being neglected (and they absolutely SHOULD be protected) extra regulations would make it harder for parents to, say, unschool. While I am personally not a fan of unschooling, I respect a parents right to do so and I guess I worry about that right being taken from parents. I think that is my main issue with the idea of extra oversight- it is this blurring of the lines of a parents right to raise their child as they see fit, you know? It is easy to be a proponent of these issues when it is going our way, but what if it were opposite? What if we suddenly lived in a conservative families dream world and ATI homeschooling was being forced upon us by the government? Obviously an extreme example (lol), but I think that is where I come from- the idea of children being hurt from HSing breaks my heart, but is more oversight the answer? I don't know, but I do think my states oversight is enough- we have to provide proof of homeschool curriculum every year- but that is it. Anyway, sorry for the ramble...