JB & J'Chelle's Weird Obsession with Sex, Affection & Purity

[Four is Enough]

Yes! - I always thought Susie was a lesbian. I am glad someone else said it. I know I have no right to make assumptions about people's sexuality...but it is hard, just in general, not to think that people who have such over the top views about sex and abstinence aren't on some level just uncomfortable with their own sexuality, whatever their own preferences might be. IMO people who are comfortable with themselves don't feel the need to pick apart other people's lives and personal choices.

.

OMFSM, She's so far in the closet, she'll never find her way out.

AFA FotF, I tried to listen to some of Dobson's radio shows, and just couldn't do it. The shameless asking for money at the end of each session turned me off first. But the relentless pounding of the Bible just did me in.

[grandmadugger]

I've been really interested in what the Duggars believe. I am a Christian and a lot of their behaviors are off-putting and nonsensical to me.

I wanted to learn more about Bill Gothard. I went to recovering grace (.org) and there are some fascinating articles on there that explains about the Duggar's.

Regarding the topic of this thread, I wanted to share what I found on one of the pages about their Sexual beliefs.

"With that as the foundation he is then free to teach couples the “biblical principle†of Marital Abstinence whereby a married couple can demonstrate they really love one another by not engaging in sexual relations

1. During the wife’s menstrual cycle;

2. Seven days after the cycle;

3. Forty days after the birth of a son;

4. Eighty days after the birth of a daughter; 31 and

5. The evening prior to worship.32"

Literally Bill Gothard has dictated off of old testament laws when they can have sex! Creepy and disturbing but I thought it would be a "fun" bit of info for the thread.

I started digging into the Duggar's for the same reasons you did. Gothard loves the legalism of the Old Testament. He clearly missed the fact that Jesus came to set us free from the legalism of it all. The really sad thing is all of the people who have fallen for it as well. Maybe it's because I raised to question and find answers for myself but I don't understand how you can spend more than ten minutes reading that kind of stuff and not scream "CULT".

[isarhenne]

OMFSM, She's so far in the closet, she'll never find her way out.

AFA FotF, I tried to listen to some of Dobson's radio shows, and just couldn't do it. The shameless asking for money at the end of each session turned me off first. But the relentless pounding of the Bible just did me in.

0.1 seconds into the video and I already got the vibe

[isarhenne]

The Duggar courtship rules aren't even THAT strict.

I remember watching a documentary about the Wilson family (I think it's called "virgin daughters" (2008) where they didn't even touch at all before the wedding. no holding hands, no side hugs, nothing, no touching!

Makes the Bates look pretty liberal!

[It'sFunToRun]

I've been really interested in what the Duggars believe. I am a Christian and a lot of their behaviors are off-putting and nonsensical to me.

I wanted to learn more about Bill Gothard. I went to recovering grace (.org) and there are some fascinating articles on there that explains about the Duggar's.

Regarding the topic of this thread, I wanted to share what I found on one of the pages about their Sexual beliefs.

"With that as the foundation he is then free to teach couples the “biblical principle†of Marital Abstinence whereby a married couple can demonstrate they really love one another by not engaging in sexual relations

1. During the wife’s menstrual cycle;

2. Seven days after the cycle;

3. Forty days after the birth of a son;

4. Eighty days after the birth of a daughter; 31 and

5. The evening prior to worship.32"

Literally Bill Gothard has dictated off of old testament laws when they can have sex! Creepy and disturbing but I thought it would be a "fun" bit of info for the thread.

Number 5 doesn't come from the Old Testament. For Jews it is a mitzvah to have sex on Shabbat :nanner-sex: (as long as it's otherwise allowed), and there's nothing about not having it before or after worship. During worship would be a no-no :D

[Toothfairy]

I started digging into the Duggar's for the same reasons you did. Gothard loves the legalism of the Old Testament. He clearly missed the fact that Jesus came to set us free from the legalism of it all. The really sad thing is all of the people who have fallen for it as well. Maybe it's because I raised to question and find answers for myself but I don't understand how you can spend more than ten minutes reading that kind of stuff and not scream "CULT".

but jesus died for our sins, so the old testament doesn't apply.

[CorruptionInc.]

Popping my posting cherry here!

All I can say is I would be absolutely terrified if I was to go from never been kissed to possibly pregnant in a few hours (even if it is shoved down your throat as your "purpose").

I wonder if any Duggar will get to their wedding night and go "wait we have no idea what we're doing, let's go slowly"?

[mebeforee]

I've actually read from other people who were living under this same lifestyle, there are some couples who get married and then don't actually consummate it for several weeks or even months. I'm sure the pressure of being on television is just one more consideration for the Duggar children, but I really think that most couples who have never so much as been alone together before would need a little bit of warm-up time to have sex, even if they're technically allowed by the courtship standards to do so after their wedding. The expectations of the 'wedding night' and the reality of a relationship can be somewhat different.

[roddma]

This. Courtship puts more pressure on couples. You go into it expecting a marriage so you develop high emotions and you become attached to that person. Brekaing up will hurt worse. But try to make humpers understand it.

Waiting or sex is fine, but purity often leads to early marriages for the wrong reasons. This isnt true for everyone, but Fundies take purity a step further than most than most of us would. They cant even have crushes or just be friends with the opposite gender.It arouses curiosity and engagements must be super short. Is it really something to boast about when your 19-20 always watched virgin never been kissed kids marry as opposed to being virgin in your late twenties having lived on your own?

[JellyHope]

I hate defending Nutschelle, but in the video where she tries to cover Josie's shoulders, I thought she was fine. She was completely calm, nonplussed, and kinda made a joke of it "speaking of modesty...", then she let it go and didn't say anything to Josie. I bet she would have lectured Josie if the camera wasn't there, but the fact that she is at least able to stay calm and normal in front of the camera says something. I don't think even the Pearls would start beating a child right then and there, but I think you'd see the rage in their eyes.

Nah, IMHO I did not think it was fine. Even though she chuckled it off, I still find it ridiculous she would even think about it enough to say something. A 4-year-old's shoulders should not be in the same thought as modesty. The only reason to mention or think about a 4-year-old's shoulders as they come outside in a dress, is if it's freezing outside.

[FreeHannie!]

Nah, IMHO I did not think it was fine. Even though she chuckled it off, I still find it ridiculous she would even think about it enough to say something. A 4-year-old's shoulders should not be in the same thought as modesty. The only reason to mention or think about a 4-year-old's shoulders as they come outside in a dress, is if it's freezing outside.

Exactly. A 4 year old doesn't need to be guilted into making sure she is being 'modest' so she isn't tempting boys, a 4 year old needs to worry about being a child, but these kids don't really get to do that. And the whole reason they do modesty (to not tempt men) just smacks of victim blaming and takes away from the fact that men should be accountable for themselves and their own actions. Plus, you know, she's FOUR, anyone thinking like that about a 4 year old.....

If a guy looks at a pretty (older) girl and thinks he wants to get in her pants, that's a) normal for boys but also b) totally on him, not on her.

The only time my mother ever worried about my shoulders was to put a cardigan on them, because I'm one of those people who doesn't really feel the cold but as a child, she was always worried I'd catch a cold in fall without a cardigan on. Even now in my 20s she still says 'are you sure you're not cold? You should put something on your shoulders!'.

[It'sFunToRun]

Exactly. A 4 year old doesn't need to be guilted into making sure she is being 'modest' so she isn't tempting boys, a 4 year old needs to worry about being a child, but these kids don't really get to do that. And the whole reason they do modesty (to not tempt men) just smacks of victim blaming and takes away from the fact that men should be accountable for themselves and their own actions. Plus, you know, she's FOUR, anyone thinking like that about a 4 year old.....

If a guy looks at a pretty (older) girl and thinks he wants to get in her pants, that's a) normal for boys but also b) totally on him, not on her.

The only time my mother ever worried about my shoulders was to put a cardigan on them, because I'm one of those people who doesn't really feel the cold but as a child, she was always worried I'd catch a cold in fall without a cardigan on. Even now in my 20s she still says 'are you sure you're not cold? You should put something on your shoulders!'.

I know that in the US shoulders and arms are not considered "private" so it just seems bizarre to cover them, but where I live it is different. Even though I don't think there is anything wrong with any woman no matter her age showing her shoulders, I don't think there is anything wrong with having a four year old cover hers. A tee shirt is still light and comfortable in the heat of the summer, and will even protect from the sun.

I think a lot of "modesty" shit becomes a PITA and is unfair, like having to wear skirts without slits so it makes you walk in tiny steps, or wearing a skirt while skiing, or having to wear skirts swimming, but I don't think having to cover shoulders is a big deal.

[Free Them All]

Bill Gothard blames women for everything. His followers are taught to do the same.

[CorruptionInc.]

The Duggars wouldn't do well in Australia during summer. It's too hot to cover up!

We stay modest too! You don't really see people just walking around in Bikinis... which for the record, is what Michelle used to do... :|

[trailmix2014]

I want to see them in Venice Beach, CA. ROFL

[JellyHope]

I know that in the US shoulders and arms are not considered "private" so it just seems bizarre to cover them, but where I live it is different. Even though I don't think there is anything wrong with any woman no matter her age showing her shoulders, I don't think there is anything wrong with having a four year old cover hers. A tee shirt is still light and comfortable in the heat of the summer, and will even protect from the sun.

I think a lot of "modesty" shit becomes a PITA and is unfair, like having to wear skirts without slits so it makes you walk in tiny steps, or wearing a skirt while skiing, or having to wear skirts swimming, but I don't think having to cover shoulders is a big deal.

I don't know where you live. But we are talking about Arkansas. In the summer. And a 4-year-old who had on a very pretty dress that showed her shoulders. Barely. It wasn't like it was spaghetti straps. (Which, IMO, would still be fine.) There are times to worry about shoulders & modesty. As a teacher, that was definitely a consideration every morning I dressed. But playing outside, in the summer in the United States, even at your sister's wedding reception, there is absolutely nothing wrong with shoulders showing.

[It'sFunToRun]

I don't know where you live. But we are talking about Arkansas. In the summer. And a 4-year-old who had on a very pretty dress that showed her shoulders. Barely. It wasn't like it was spaghetti straps. (Which, IMO, would still be fine.) There are times to worry about shoulders & modesty. As a teacher, that was definitely a consideration every morning I dressed. But playing outside, in the summer in the United States, even at your sister's wedding reception, there is absolutely nothing wrong with shoulders showing.

I agree that there's nothing wrong with shoulders showing, but I don't think that requiring a child to wear short sleeves is worse than not letting a child get a pixie cut, which a lot of secular parents wouldn't do.

I have a long sleeved shirt that is made out of such light cotton (possibly also worn down because I got it second hand) that I wear a tank top underneath it because it is slightly transparent. Wearing it in the summer actually keeps me cooler than only wearing the tank top, because the material keeps the direct sun off my skin, also I don't have to worry about sun lotion.

Have you ever seen how Bedouins dress? I really hope the Duggars won't start dressing like that because it won't fit in with their culture, but basically Bedouins hang out in the desert and wear what looks like lots of thick blankets, but it keeps them cool. When I'm back on my computer I'll look it up and see how that works.

[HarryPotterFan]

Exactly. A 4 year old doesn't need to be guilted into making sure she is being 'modest' so she isn't tempting boys, a 4 year old needs to worry about being a child, but these kids don't really get to do that. And the whole reason they do modesty (to not tempt men) just smacks of victim blaming and takes away from the fact that men should be accountable for themselves and their own actions. Plus, you know, she's FOUR, anyone thinking like that about a 4 year old.....

If a guy looks at a pretty (older) girl and thinks he wants to get in her pants, that's a) normal for boys but also b) totally on him, not on her.

The only time my mother ever worried about my shoulders was to put a cardigan on them, because I'm one of those people who doesn't really feel the cold but as a child, she was always worried I'd catch a cold in fall without a cardigan on. Even now in my 20s she still says 'are you sure you're not cold? You should put something on your shoulders!'.

My friend who is Orthodox recently had a baby. She puts the little cutie pie in a onesie, and her grandmother-in-law commented that even when her children were babies, she made sure that they were covered from head to toe. And that in the summer months, she'd dress them in light, breathable clothes. I was kinda like :evil-eye: I didn't say anything, but I just thought it was just kinda odd. It just seems weird to hold the same modesty standards to a 5-week-old as you would to a grown-up.

[It'sFunToRun]

My friend who is Orthodox recently had a baby. She puts the little cutie pie in a onesie, and her grandmother-in-law commented that even when her children were babies, she made sure that they were covered from head to toe. And that in the summer months, she'd dress them in light, breathable clothes. I was kinda like :evil-eye: I didn't say anything, but I just thought it was just kinda odd. It just seems weird to hold the same modesty standards to a 5-week-old as you would to a grown-up.

That sounds weird to me. It might have been her personal preference. I'm around a lot of orthodox Jews and even the haredim usually don't start modesty rules until age three, which is still WTF, but whatever. I guess if you are going to make your girls wear tights and skirts and long sleeves all the time, it might be nicer to start at three so that it is all that they remember instead of sticking it on them at age nine or ten like a punishment for starting puberty. The reason they start at three doesn't have to do with kindness, but it makes me feel better to know that the girl doesn't know there are more comfortable clothes. Also things like heat you get used to so you really do suffer less if you always wear long sleeves vs just for one day.

As someone who sunburns very easily, I just don't see covering skin as a bad thing as long as the material is comfortable and allows for all possible movement.

[isarhenne]

it is so weird. Where I come from people lay around naked (and I mean 100% naked) in the parks and on the riverside in the city center! That is not a joke! And it's a big city, too, for Europe.

Nakedness does not need to equal sexuality. Why are different body parts sexualized all over the world? for the duggars its shoulders, legs, ... . In arabian countries they would be considered sluts because they show their hair in all it's glory.

I want to see the Duggars travel to Saudi Arabia and then come to Munich, Germany, for the two biggest shocks of their lives :D

[nst]

I've been really interested in what the Duggars believe. I am a Christian and a lot of their behaviors are off-putting and nonsensical to me.

I wanted to learn more about Bill Gothard. I went to recovering grace (.org) and there are some fascinating articles on there that explains about the Duggar's.

Regarding the topic of this thread, I wanted to share what I found on one of the pages about their Sexual beliefs.

"With that as the foundation he is then free to teach couples the “biblical principle†of Marital Abstinence whereby a married couple can demonstrate they really love one another by not engaging in sexual relations

1. During the wife’s menstrual cycle;

2. Seven days after the cycle;

3. Forty days after the birth of a son;

4. Eighty days after the birth of a daughter; 31 and

5. The evening prior to worship.32"

Literally Bill Gothard has dictated off of old testament laws when they can have sex! Creepy and disturbing but I thought it would be a "fun" bit of info for the thread.

i honestly don't think Ben could wait every 14 days after he and Jessa are married :D He seems like he would need it daily

[CorruptionInc.]

i honestly don't think Ben could wait every 14 days after he and Jessa are married :D He seems like he would need it daily

Technically then...

Church is usually on a Sunday... so no funsies Saturday night...

...if that means they get married on a Saturday - this is null and void? Or still applicable?

[grandmadugger]

Technically then...

Church is usually on a Sunday... so no funsies Saturday night...

...if that means they get married on a Saturday - this is null and void? Or still applicable?

I'm guessing they skip worship on the day after the wedding. That way Saturday night wouldn't technically be the night before worship.

[Coco]

About Josie's dress, has anyone said it might be because they wanted to hold to the standard for all ages? This was a big thing in Mennonite circles. They felt if they allowed something innocent on a child that the church considered wrong for older people it would open the door for people to keep raising the age. Like for Mennos it would be lace for little girls and graphics (like dinos or something) for boys. So they just shut whatever the controversial thing was down completely for all ages. That might be why she brought it up - maybe their church doesn't do sleeveless at all, not that she thought it was immodest for a 4 year old. She just blabbed the word modest because it was the middle of an interview and she couldn't go into details. Or - duh - if they believe that they should have put little tulle sleeves on the dresses instead of relying on cardigans. :roll: :lol: Obviously the Duggars don't really believe sleeveless is bad, they're just trying to stay on the good side of the conservative leghumpers who do.

It's still dumb, imo. She should have just ignored it and fixed the bow.

[ADoyle90815]

That sounds weird to me. It might have been her personal preference. I'm around a lot of orthodox Jews and even the haredim usually don't start modesty rules until age three, which is still WTF, but whatever. I guess if you are going to make your girls wear tights and skirts and long sleeves all the time, it might be nicer to start at three so that it is all that they remember instead of sticking it on them at age nine or ten like a punishment for starting puberty. The reason they start at three doesn't have to do with kindness, but it makes me feel better to know that the girl doesn't know there are more comfortable clothes. Also things like heat you get used to so you really do suffer less if you always wear long sleeves vs just for one day.

As someone who sunburns very easily, I just don't see covering skin as a bad thing as long as the material is comfortable and allows for all possible movement.

Some devout Mormon parents also don't allow their children to wear sleeveless clothing from birth onward because to them, it's preparing them for wearing temple garments which cover the shoulders. They believe that if the children grew up that way, they won't have to get a new wardrobe after going to the temple.