Warning Buzz words

[formergothardite]

If they say anything about "voting the Bible". Especially if they give out yard signs.

[Four is Enough]

ass-holiness :D

My new favorite descriptor!

[moodygirl86]

Lately I'm seeing the word "season" a lot--as in, "The Lord has told me that blah blah blah during this season of my life" or "I really fucked up but that's just part of that season of my ministry" or "in that season of my life I was a douchebag but now god has revealed to me in a new direction."

Yeah, no. Seasons are for weather, not ass-holiness. If you're an asshole all the time, that's more like a climate disorder, not a seasonal mishap :D

I love this post.

[Terrie]

Even if they have a website, that assumes that 1) its complete (a lot are just an address and a schedule, with maybe some photos) and 2) the church doesn't use coded language to appeal to those who may not know what to look for. This post was actually inspired by trying to look into a church being talked up by a coworker and finding that the website didn't tell me much out right, but reading between the lines showed something I did NOT want to be a part of.

Another word that I find makes me take a second, closer look: Harvest.

[formergothardite]

Even if they have a website, that assumes that 1) its complete (a lot are just an address and a schedule, with maybe some photos) and 2) the church doesn't use coded language to appeal to those who may not know what to look for. This post was actually inspired by trying to look into a church being talked up by a coworker and finding that the website didn't tell me much out right, but reading between the lines showed something I did NOT want to be a part of.

Another word that I find makes me take a second, closer look: Harvest.

I have been looking at local church websites to see how obvious their fundie beliefs are and some of them you can't really tell just from the website. One church in particular is a huge church but has very fundie beliefs, but it took a lot of digging to see that. It was coded in ways like

"children are a blessing"

"family is the primary way to pass on the faith ",

"marriage is for life".

"the family must be strengthened in these trying times."

If you didn't know you wouldn't realize that what they really mean is:

"all birth control is a sin"

"homeschooling is a must if you want your kids to go to heaven"

"divorce is never an option no matter what"

"the gays are evil and they must not be allowed marriage."

[lemonhead]

Okay, I'll make a serious contribution:

1) There is an OPC Presbyterian Church (fundie Presbys) in my neighborhood. If you look under "Membership" on their website, the first paragraph is on accountability and church discipline. They also require a membership application and signing a covenant. Both of those words are big red flags for me.

2) This isn't about a particular word, it's more subtle than that. Another very large church near me is a "community church," which sounds rather harmless and welcoming. They are non-denominational. As an aside on the topic of "non-denominational," I know for me it's a warning sign because it means the church does not exist within a hierarchy of institutional oversight. In my personal experience growing up in IFB, that can be a dangerous sort of structure when so much power is at stake. But anyway, this church's website has bios about the church leadership, and apparently all of the (male) pastors attended the same extremely conservative reformed seminary. You won't find anything that reflects those beliefs in their "about us" section, but you can bet that it's a church a lot like Mars Hill in its teachings.

You really have to dig around to find clues about what a church is really like. So many people get sucked into toxic churches with the love bombing, and by the time they realize what's going on, their entire identity is wrapped up in the group and it's so hard to leave.

[formergothardite]

Okay, I'll make a serious contribution:

1) There is an OPC Presbyterian Church (fundie Presbys) in my neighborhood. If you look under "Membership" on their website, the first paragraph is on accountability and church discipline. They also require a membership application and signing a covenant. Both of those words are big red flags for me.

2) This isn't about a particular word, it's more subtle than that. Another very large church near me is a "community church," which sounds rather harmless and welcoming. They are non-denominational. As an aside on the topic of "non-denominational," I know for me it's a warning sign because it means the church does not exist within a hierarchy of institutional oversight. In my personal experience growing up in IFB, that can be a dangerous sort of structure when so much power is at stake. But anyway, this church's website has bios about the church leadership, and apparently all of the (male) pastors attended the same extremely conservative reformed seminary. You won't find anything that reflects those beliefs in their "about us" section, but you can bet that it's a church a lot like Mars Hill in its teachings.

You really have to dig around to find clues about what a church is really like. So many people get sucked into toxic churches with the love bombing, and by the time they realize what's going on, their entire identity is wrapped up in the group and it's so hard to leave.

This is so true. I was looking at the website of a church that I know has sucked in one friend and now they pretty much only associate with church members and only do church events but you would get no hint of any of that from their website. I couldn't find one clue. If one did not know they would think it was a cool church with a ton of ministries. There is nothing on the website about how you join, what they teach or any info about the ministers. Just lots of info about how they help the community.

If one is going to join a church try and find out as soon as possible what they believe and what they expect of members. Once you get love bombed and invested in the church it is harder to leave and easier to ignore red flags.

[FoxyMoxie]

Okay, I'll make a serious contribution:

1) There is an OPC Presbyterian Church (fundie Presbys) in my neighborhood. If you look under "Membership" on their website, the first paragraph is on accountability and church discipline. They also require a membership application and signing a covenant. Both of those words are big red flags for me.

2) This isn't about a particular word, it's more subtle than that. Another very large church near me is a "community church," which sounds rather harmless and welcoming. They are non-denominational. As an aside on the topic of "non-denominational," I know for me it's a warning sign because it means the church does not exist within a hierarchy of institutional oversight. In my personal experience growing up in IFB, that can be a dangerous sort of structure when so much power is at stake. But anyway, this church's website has bios about the church leadership, and apparently all of the (male) pastors attended the same extremely conservative reformed seminary. You won't find anything that reflects those beliefs in their "about us" section, but you can bet that it's a church a lot like Mars Hill in its teachings.

You really have to dig around to find clues about what a church is really like. So many people get sucked into toxic churches with the love bombing, and by the time they realize what's going on, their entire identity is wrapped up in the group and it's so hard to leave.

See, I'm finding a lot of international differences here. I'm in the UK, and over here 'community church' tends to just mean a church built within a particular community (rather than the church being built and then the community building around it as many more ancient churches here have), and quite often it refers more specifically to churches in multi-use community buildings that may also do things like bingo or Brownies/Guides or slimming clubs. They can be denominational as often as non-denominational IME, and the use of 'community' refers just to the surrounding community and not the church's ecclesiology. Even if they're evangelical, they tend to be standard evangelical and not fundie (though not in every case obviously) - multi-use community buildings are really common in the UK because we have much less space here than in the US.

Also not existing within institutional oversight CAN be a big problem but not always. Congregationalist churches historically have been independent, but pretty much like Methodists or non-fundie Presbyterians in beliefs (and indeed in many cases joined with them to make new denominations like the United Church of Canada and United Reformed Church). Also in the UK, we have many non-fundie Baptists (generally belonging to the Baptist Union of Great Britain, which is totally mainline and for female clergy - divided on LGBT issues but it's left to individual churches) - their churches operate more or less autonomously. There are connections between churches but not oversight as say Anglicans or Lutherans would understand it. There are fundie Baptists but they tend to be offshoots of old Baptist groups like Particular or Strict Baptists (Strict Baptist is actually the denominational name). In the UK as a whole you're more likely to get fundie Presbyterians (in Scotland and Northern Ireland) than fundie Baptists. Quakers also don't have institutional oversight but not everyone considers them Christian.

By Mars Hill, I assume you mean Driscoll's? Rob Bell's church is also called Mars Hill, and Bell is about as far away from Driscoll as you can get. Mars Hill is a reasonably common church name, it comes from the place dedicated to Mars that Paul debated with the Athenians in the New Testament.

Church name warnings - in the UK I'd say names like 'Advance' or 'Victory' or 'New Life', or often 'Grace Church' or 'Kings Church'. Basically names that could be names of deodorants :lol:

[hagia sophia]

Because of my IFB background my radar pings at "standards" (which to me means legalism, especially with regards to dress and music/pop culture), Sunday school buses and if the church has a Wednesday night prayer meeting/bible study.

Oh and also "watch night service" which is where you "pray in" the new year. You could always tell when it was midnight, even though your head was bowed and eyes were closed by the sound outside of car horns, hollering, pots banging and fire crackers. The more liberal churches I went to as I ratcheted down and out (now an atheist) had regular New Years parties if they had anything at all.

[neuroticcat]

authority, submission, laid it on my heart, calling, arrows

Some of those could be just used in normal evangelical-speak, but they seem everywhere in fundie-talk

For me now when people self-identify as "reformed" that feels like a bit of a red flag.

[dilannsmom]

NIKE!

[GeoBQn]

"Family-integrated church"

A lot of mainstream denominations keep parents and children together during services, but it is usually a sign of fundiedom if a church combines the following:

1. Uses this term

2. Has no Sunday school, youth group, women's groups, or any events for separate groups of children and women.

3. Criticizes churches that do have these things for advocating "age segregation."

[shedemei]

The churches aimed at a younger crowd will prominently mention rock and roll music. While this isn't always the case, I'd keep a careful eye on these churches (like Mars Hill).

Excessive focusing on Jesus as a hero or strong manly-man in their description.

Overall having a tone that is not focused on God or community, but in promoting the church itself as a brand.

[Geechee Girl]

I forgot to add deliverance ministry and spiritual warfare go hand-in-hand where I'm from. If a church routinely casts out demons from folks, they're usually very fundie. Also if a the church believes homosexuality/addiction/mental illness=demons/devil, that's a huge reg flag.

[Smoochie]

Fellowship, sweet fellowship, that seems to be a big one lately. The Duggars constantly use it on the show too.

[FloraKitty35]

Exceptionalism

God Ordained Exceptionalism

Divinely Ordained Exceptionalism

[Coconut Flan]

While not a buzz word, a man's image on the church sign is usually the indication of a cult of the charismatic personality. We have a few of those around. Legalism is usually the doctrine of choice.

[Savoring Samsara]

Any statement of faith/belief that mentions biblical inerrancy or mentions the Bible before any other aspect of Christianity is a red flag for me.

[neuroticcat]

Also any church that makes traditional gender roles the hill they are going to die on.

Case in point: one of Mars Hill's three non-negotiables is traditional gender roles.

[jerkit]

Also any church that makes traditional gender roles the hill they are going to die on.

Case in point: one of Mars Hill's three non-negotiables is traditional gender roles.

Where are you getting these three non-negotiables?

[Pandora Moon]

I'd say any church that says they are the only true Christians is a red flag for me as it probably means that they are not going to be tolerant of other Christians or any other faith for that matter.

[neuroticcat]

Where are you getting these three non-negotiables?

I'll try and hunt it down. It was on their website on some "Our Beliefs" page. I think the three were Scripture, trinity (maybe?), and men and women's roles. I remember that stuck out to me - like, really? This is the thing? I'll do some hunting.

[jerkit]

I'll try and hunt it down. It was on their website on some "Our Beliefs" page. I think the three were Scripture, trinity (maybe?), and men and women's roles. I remember that stuck out to me - like, really? This is the thing? I'll do some hunting.

This is their current beliefs page: marshill.com/what-we-believe

[neuroticcat]

Interesting. I think they've changed their website. It was on a page with graphics like the ones in this post: http://marshill.com/2010/10/27/this-is- ... ut-mission

But when you click the link to go to the one on complementarianism, it's been removed.

http://marshill.com/2010/10/26/this-is- ... and-women/

The gist of it was that beliefs on gender roles were an identifying tenet of their church. I can't think the fact that its scrubbed from the website is because they've radically changed their beliefs but because of bad PR.

[neuroticcat]

This kind of hints at it as well:

"The New Calvinists are committed to complementarianism in the home and church. In some ways, this is a very important undergirding fact that binds us together. Over a meal in Vancouver, B.C., some years ago, a friend and wonderful brother, Bruce Ware, who has worked tirelessly on this issue, commented that he believed that someone’s view of gender roles in fact reveals much of their theology, including their view of God, the Bible as God’s Word, and how the Bible is to be interpreted. His words were both insightful and helpful..."

from: http://theresurgence.com/2009/03/29/complementarianism

ETA: As best I can tell they hold to it so strongly because they hold to a "living by the Bible" belief so strongly. So on the surface in their church, if someone rejects that interpretation of those Bible verses, someone is rejecting the Bible. ("Therefore, the issue is not whether a woman can be in ministry, but rather what ministry a woman can be in and remain faithful to Scripture." from http://pastormark.tv/2011/09/20/faq-women-and-ministry).

Personally, I think the belief at MH has more to do with the rampant misogyny there and Bible interpretation becomes the "reason".