Our Little Haven Blog

[themothership]

I remember this mess. The little cutie Ayden isn't theirs, they babysit for her. Who would voluntarily leave their child in that environment? The house appears to be in shambles, missing ceiling, filthy broken floors, ugh.

[momof2treasures]

These kids are adorable. The way they live is not that uncommon in rural Vermont. We aren't far from them and more poverty and squalor in that area. The huge family is unusual however lol. I wonder if mom has hoarding tendencies? She buys the weirdest, most useless stuff from goodwill and posts it on her blog. Another question, is it unacceptable for quiverfull families to cloth diaper? I haven't seen any that do and the families having kid after kid would save a ton using old fashioned flat diapers with covers. They stay home most of the time so to me it's the logical choice when every penny matters. Maybe they are afraid to add more laundry? They also use the word "training" to describe raising there child. Why does everyone train their kids? It's a strange word to use , it sounds like they are talking about a dog.

[salex]

My SIL was homeschooling her 7 kids and one year they literally were too poor to afford new materials so the kids didn't get schooled. They were living in OK then and there was little to no supervision.

Her husband who was a lazy no good fool said public schools were tools of the devil. She was a licensed Vet Tech who didn't work because the same asshole husband didn't want her away from him.

She finally got fed up, put the kids in school and they had a better life. He got a VA disability and that didn't take care of 9 people. He passed away 2 years ago, she got a great job as a traveling technician for a vet specialty computer co, her kids are all out of school or almost and one of the older ones lives at home and takes care of them when she travels.

So yes, families don't always have money to buy new materials.

That means there is an instant market for Gary North's free homeschool program marketed under Ron Paul's name. (enter the dominionists) ronpaulcurriculum.com/ Gary North makes no bones that he wrote the curriculum.

[nelliebelle1197]

These kids are adorable. The way they live is not that uncommon in rural Vermont. We aren't far from them and more poverty and squalor in that area. The huge family is unusual however lol. I wonder if mom has hoarding tendencies? She buys the weirdest, most useless stuff from goodwill and posts it on her blog. Another question, is it unacceptable for quiverfull families to cloth diaper? I haven't seen any that do and the families having kid after kid would save a ton using old fashioned flat diapers with covers. They stay home most of the time so to me it's the logical choice when every penny matters. Maybe they are afraid to add more laundry? They also use the word "training" to describe raising there child. Why does everyone train their kids? It's a strange word to use , it sounds like they are talking about a dog.

Zsu is cloth only. I am pretty sure I've read a couple others talking about cloth. For this one, I wonder I wonder if she has the washing machine, etc., you really need to sanitize diapers. I did cloth only and I could not have made it without the sanitizing features on my fancy washer. I would also bet Nikki gets charity diapers from churches and such.

ETA: Zsu not only uses cloth, she uses the high end stuff. I still think there is something weird with their money. I used similar brands as Zsu - bought on sale in thee colors no one wanted!- I needed a couple dozen. These diapers can run $12-15 apiece.

[momof2treasures]

Oh I didn't know that about zsu. You definitely need a washer and hot water. I can't fathom not having a washing machine myself so what do I know.

[theologygeek]

I read her blog. They seem dirt poor, but the mother buys the oddest things at yard sales and Goodwill. I found her through Nicole Pelkey from pelkeyphotos.blogspot.com who is Zsu's friend. Nicole is the one who kills a lot of her animals. Not on purpose, but she doesn't seek medical attention. She tries to cure them herself, but it doesn't work all that much. She also didn't care if her dog took off because she couldn't stand the dog. He did end up taking off and never returning. But she just keeps bringing more animals into the home and has a goat farm now too. Nikki from the Haven blog has a husband who seems very controlling. I got the impression that she has to ask his permission to do everything, including going out. I feel bad for her. She seems sweet but simple minded.

[theologygeek]

ETA: Zsu not only uses cloth, she uses the high end stuff. I still think there is something weird with their money. I used similar brands as Zsu - bought on sale in thee colors no one wanted!- I needed a couple dozen. These diapers can run $12-15 apiece.

Zsu buys the diapers on craigslist and from facebook groups.

[formergothardite]

I read her blog. They seem dirt poor, but the mother buys the oddest things at yard sales and Goodwill. I found her through Nicole Pelkey from pelkeyphotos.blogspot.com who is Zsu's friend. Nicole is the one who kills a lot of her animals. Not on purpose, but she doesn't seek medical attention. She tries to cure them herself, but it doesn't work all that much. She also didn't care if her dog took off because she couldn't stand the dog. He did end up taking off and never returning. But she just keeps bringing more animals into the home and has a goat farm now too. Nikki from the Haven blog has a husband who seems very controlling. I got the impression that she has to ask his permission to do everything, including going out. I feel bad for her. She seems sweet but simple minded.

Poor Zander the goat. :( She doesn't need animals.

[nelliebelle1197]

Zsu buys the diapers on craigslist and from facebook groups.

Not sure about that entirely- she has had posts in the past about buying them from a baby store and they were super expensive. She may supplement but after having used cloth for years, the pocket diapers she uses do lose their absorbancy over time especially if they are being washed in harsh detergents or with heavily chemical additives. You never know what a seller uses for detergent. I also sold all my old ones on eBay when the baby was potty trained and I can tell you they sell for close to purchase price even when they are two years old. Even buying Bumikins and Fuzzi Bunni used she is paying hefty price for a used diaper with a much more limited lifespan than a new one.

[momof2treasures]

It can be pricey up front. I would not invest in pocket diapers if I planned on having lots of kids. They are convenient but wouldn't hold up as long as the old fashioned styles. She could a good amount of those , get some covers and be set for 3 or 4 babies before things got ratty. Easier to wash too. Again, she would at least need to own a washing machine(hope she does!)

[salex]

These kids are adorable. The way they live is not that uncommon in rural Vermont. We aren't far from them and more poverty and squalor in that area. The huge family is unusual however lol. I wonder if mom has hoarding tendencies? She buys the weirdest, most useless stuff from goodwill and posts it on her blog. Another question, is it unacceptable for quiverfull families to cloth diaper? I haven't seen any that do and the families having kid after kid would save a ton using old fashioned flat diapers with covers. They stay home most of the time so to me it's the logical choice when every penny matters. Maybe they are afraid to add more laundry? They also use the word "training" to describe raising there child. Why does everyone train their kids? It's a strange word to use , it sounds like they are talking about a dog.

The haven on the hill group seem to use cloth diapers at least to some extent.

ourlittlehaven.blogspot.com/2011/05/cloth-diapers.html

[theologygeek]

Not sure about that entirely- she has had posts in the past about buying them from a baby store and they were super expensive. She may supplement but after having used cloth for years, the pocket diapers she uses do lose their absorbancy over time especially if they are being washed in harsh detergents or with heavily chemical additives. You never know what a seller uses for detergent. I also sold all my old ones on eBay when the baby was potty trained and I can tell you they sell for close to purchase price even when they are two years old. Even buying Bumikins and Fuzzi Bunni used she is paying hefty price for a used diaper with a much more limited lifespan than a new one.

She has said in the past that she uses disposables at night. I don't recall reading many posts about her buying cloth diapers in stores, but I do remember her talking about her cloth diaper bargains on more than one occasion. This batch was all from freecycle. stevenandersonfamily.blogspot.com/2010/09/cloth-diapers.html

[theologygeek]

Poor Zander the goat. :( She doesn't need animals.

She should have brought that goat to the vet as soon as they freed him from whatever it was he was stuck in. She gives her animals a crazy tonic that she whips up herself and takes a wait and see approach. They always end up finding the animal dead.

[pennsatuckey]

Does anyone ever read Nikki from Our Little Haven? She is the mom of 10, homeschools despite a limited education and what looks to be poverty in small town Vermont. Her blog is not terribly controversial or insightful on the surface, but unlike bright shiny Maxwells, the glamorous Vision Forumers and hate-agenda driven Zsu, Nikki is more of what we think of as a typical fundie - too many kids, limited opportunity, living on Jesus in a run down house on bargain food and charity shop/rummage sale finds. She posts a lot of pictures, often on her garage sale loot and of things people have given her.

I kind of find her fascinating despite the fact that not much happens on her blog other near daily posts of tons of pictures. Her kids all have super Old Testament names. Even Salinn the oldest is really

named Sarah. Oh, look, there's Obediah, too!

Her homeschool philosophy

ourlittlehaven.blogspot.com/2011/09/another-school-day.html

I am pretty sure I found her here. Does anyone know anything about her?

Salinn Bethany

Obadiah Jeshua

Hosea Job

Amos James

Emma Grace

Lydia Ruth Taxes

Silas John

Faith Ellen

Who gives their kid a middle name like "Taxes"? Is that one automatically the least favorite child, since they named them after something that nobody likes?

[chaotic life]

Most of the QF families I know use cloth. However, they don't always use cloth. There was a point in time when I had five children not night-trained. I used disposable pull-ups in those years at night. I've had as many as three in diapers at a time, and there comes a point when you cannot keep up with the laundry if you are using cloth. Lots of QF families I have known go through periods of using disposables and periods of using cloth, depending on circumstances in their lives.

There is an upfront cost to cloth diapers that sometimes people really don't understand still makes cloth cheaper. However, you can also do cloth and spent WAY more than you would spend with disposables. My last two babies I knew were my last two and we were in a very good financial situation. My DSQs had worn out and I had to replace them. I had way too much fun with fitted diapers and wool that I mostly made myself in those years. If I had been intending to continue having children, there is no way I could have spent the money I did on cloth diapers for those babies.

There are a lot of ways to keep homeschooling costs low, especially in the younger years. I've spent very minimum costs on homeschooling over the years. However, to utilize those low cost options, you have to have a strong education yourself to be able to evaluate and to fill gaps as you see them. The problem with most of these very low income families is that they also have a very poor educational background themselves.

[Coco]

Not sure about that entirely- she has had posts in the past about buying them from a baby store and they were super expensive. She may supplement but after having used cloth for years, the pocket diapers she uses do lose their absorbancy over time especially if they are being washed in harsh detergents or with heavily chemical additives. You never know what a seller uses for detergent. I also sold all my old ones on eBay when the baby was potty trained and I can tell you they sell for close to purchase price even when they are two years old. Even buying Bumikins and Fuzzi Bunni used she is paying hefty price for a used diaper with a much more limited lifespan than a new one.

I hope i don't offend anyone who loves clothies with this rant, since they are really cool... but cloth diapers are a major (and hard to understand imo) status symbol among sahm and fundie moms. Special detergent, special diaper rash cream because vaseline ruins the absorbency, those $50 poo sprayers that hook to the toilet tank, tons of cute prints that some moms collect, takes about a month to dry them in the dryer. I've even seen wahms who have businesses selling them battle over pattern rights. But they're still just poo catchers. Clothies are a major time consumer for poor families who truly cannot afford disposables. The chance for hand foot mouth, pinkeye, severe diaper rash/yeast infections etc etc etc etc are multiplied 1000x with clothies if they don't stay on top of it with diligence.

We had to do it for a couple years and we used the old fashioned squares, sometimes two at a time, masking tape to hold them on and those one layer waterproof covers with velcro. My dd used to waddle. :lol: She sat up really early because her diaper was like a built in Bumbo seat. At the time I was just thankful we didn't have to use elastic plastic panties like i did with my little siblings - leaky leaky. (my mom never discovered wool leak guards, she would have loved that). Being a germaphobe i did bleach water soaks, one rinse cycle and two hot washes, and sanitized our toilet every time before swishing out her poo diapers with like 3 flushes. But our water was free well water and we had a clothesline for sunshine sanitation too. :D The fundies who use status diapers (Zsu) are lying about being dirt poor, or they got them second hand and spend out the wazoo for hot water and dryer use and they probably have a ridiculous ton of laundry, bad diaper rash (the open sore kind of diaper rash) and a smelly house from all the leak accidents. Clothies can be done right, for environmental reasons or as a hobby, :lol: but it's not cheap, easy, or quick, and it bothers me when fundie moms act like it's a money saver, all things considered.

A fundie friend made her own insert style diapers and then would hang them around the house in the winter to dry. Gross.

/end rant. Trendy diapers are one of my pet peeves. Partly because i was envious of the moms who could afford them and partly because if it just doesn't make sense to jump through a bunch of hoops to take care of bodily waste unless a person is committed to taking care of the environment, which we know fundies think is not important. :evil:

[Antimony]

Oh I didn't know that about zsu. You definitely need a washer and hot water. I can't fathom not having a washing machine myself so what do I know.

I lived without one, briefly. About a month or two. I didn't have transportation to the laundromat, so it basically amounted to hand washing loads in my cleaned bathtub, and then for a rinse cycle I would let the shower go on them with cold water, and occasionally stir to make sure they got all desoaped, and wring them out and dry in the sunshine outside. It was awful, tons of extra work.

And I was living alone, just taking care of myself. I cannot imagine doing it for children or with poop involved. I'm sure people who habitually dont have washer access have better solutions, but that's what I came up with in the two months it took the landlord to fix one of our two broken washers.

[formergothardite]

Did anyone see the picture off the little boy peeling eggs while sitting on a filthy floor next to a garbage can? :? I have an old house. I know old houses are hard to keep looking clean, but that was just dirty. And then there is the picture of the little girl cuddling a kitten who is eating a mouse that they let the mother cat bring into the house. That is right up there with the Sparkling One letting her children play with road kill.

Aren't abscessed teeth painful? That poor child.

[chaotic life]

That kitten with the mouse picture grossed me out.

For all but my last two babies, I did DSQs and nylon diaper covers. I had to use nylon because my first baby was allergic to vinyl and I sure as heck wasn't going to buy different ones when they worked just fine for the others as well. I owned 3 dozen DSQs in infant, regular and 2 dozen in toddler sizes plus six nylon pants and four pairs of diaper pins.

What I loved about my cloth diaper system was that when money was tight, at least diapers were covered for the babies.

I had a friend who had no washing machine and almost no money as a grad student for several years. I bought her the DSQs and pull-on pants. She had a supply that would last her a week. She used diaper liners to remove the poops and once a week she pre-soaked her diapers in her tub before hauling them to the laundrymat for a sanitizing wash cycle, then out on her line to dry. It saved her a TON of money, and she was religious about bleaching her tub after she did her pre-soak.

Honestly, when friends without a lot of money have had babies, I have bought 2 dozen DSQs and four nylon pants for them. Its a great emergency stash even if you don't normally cloth diaper.

But no, fancy cloth diapering will not save you money in the least.

[nelliebelle1197]

I hope i don't offend anyone who loves clothies with this rant, since they are really cool... but cloth diapers are a major (and hard to understand imo) status symbol among sahm and fundie moms. Special detergent, special diaper rash cream because vaseline ruins the absorbency, those $50 poo sprayers that hook to the toilet tank, tons of cute prints that some moms collect, takes about a month to dry them in the dryer. I've even seen wahms who have businesses selling them battle over pattern rights. But they're still just poo catchers. Clothies are a major time consumer for poor families who truly cannot afford disposables. The chance for hand foot mouth, pinkeye, severe diaper rash/yeast infections etc etc etc etc are multiplied 1000x with clothies if they don't stay on top of it with diligence.

We had to do it for a couple years and we used the old fashioned squares, sometimes two at a time, masking tape to hold them on and those one layer waterproof covers with velcro. My dd used to waddle. :lol: She sat up really early because her diaper was like a built in Bumbo seat. At the time I was just thankful we didn't have to use elastic plastic panties like i did with my little siblings - leaky leaky. (my mom never discovered wool leak guards, she would have loved that). Being a germaphobe i did bleach water soaks, one rinse cycle and two hot washes, and sanitized our toilet every time before swishing out her poo diapers with like 3 flushes. But our water was free well water and we had a clothesline for sunshine sanitation too. :D The fundies who use status diapers (Zsu) are lying about being dirt poor, or they got them second hand and spend out the wazoo for hot water and dryer use and they probably have a ridiculous ton of laundry, bad diaper rash (the open sore kind of diaper rash) and a smelly house from all the leak accidents. Clothies can be done right, for environmental reasons or as a hobby, :lol: but it's not cheap, easy, or quick, and it bothers me when fundie moms act like it's a money saver, all things considered.

A fundie friend made her own insert style diapers and then would hang them around the house in the winter to dry. Gross.

/end rant. Trendy diapers are one of my pet peeves. Partly because i was envious of the moms who could afford them and partly because if it just doesn't make sense to jump through a bunch of hoops to take care of bodily waste unless a person is committed to taking care of the environment, which we know fundies think is not important. :evil:

I am not mad but I disagree :P

We used the expensive kind and had no leaking even overnight and ZERO diaper rash! But I have a fancy washer and dryer, both with sanitize and steam cycles....

I am not sure why people think it isn't money saving- I spent about $275 for two and a half years worth of diapers.

[Daenerys]

Aren't abscessed teeth painful? That poor child.

I've had ones that aren't, but that means the infection gets into your jaw muscles (instead of down into the tooth) and pretty much wires your mouth shut. I was on a soup/stew diet for a week and could barely open my mouth enough to get the antibiotics between my teeth. It was more annoying than anything but would be very distressing if you were 3 rather than 23 like me.

[Rebelwife]

I hope i don't offend anyone who loves clothies with this rant, since they are really cool... but cloth diapers are a major (and hard to understand imo) status symbol among sahm and fundie moms. Special detergent, special diaper rash cream because vaseline ruins the absorbency, those $50 poo sprayers that hook to the toilet tank, tons of cute prints that some moms collect, takes about a month to dry them in the dryer. I've even seen wahms who have businesses selling them battle over pattern rights. But they're still just poo catchers. Clothies are a major time consumer for poor families who truly cannot afford disposables. The chance for hand foot mouth, pinkeye, severe diaper rash/yeast infections etc etc etc etc are multiplied 1000x with clothies if they don't stay on top of it with diligence.

We had to do it for a couple years and we used the old fashioned squares, sometimes two at a time, masking tape to hold them on and those one layer waterproof covers with velcro. My dd used to waddle. :lol: She sat up really early because her diaper was like a built in Bumbo seat. At the time I was just thankful we didn't have to use elastic plastic panties like i did with my little siblings - leaky leaky. (my mom never discovered wool leak guards, she would have loved that). Being a germaphobe i did bleach water soaks, one rinse cycle and two hot washes, and sanitized our toilet every time before swishing out her poo diapers with like 3 flushes. But our water was free well water and we had a clothesline for sunshine sanitation too. :D The fundies who use status diapers (Zsu) are lying about being dirt poor, or they got them second hand and spend out the wazoo for hot water and dryer use and they probably have a ridiculous ton of laundry, bad diaper rash (the open sore kind of diaper rash) and a smelly house from all the leak accidents. Clothies can be done right, for environmental reasons or as a hobby, :lol: but it's not cheap, easy, or quick, and it bothers me when fundie moms act like it's a money saver, all things considered.

A fundie friend made her own insert style diapers and then would hang them around the house in the winter to dry. Gross.

/end rant. Trendy diapers are one of my pet peeves. Partly because i was envious of the moms who could afford them and partly because if it just doesn't make sense to jump through a bunch of hoops to take care of bodily waste unless a person is committed to taking care of the environment, which we know fundies think is not important. :evil:

I was cheap (although I had a good washer). I got by with 2 sizes of prefolds that I bought used - newborn and regular - and prowrap covers with Velcro. That got me through the diaper years just fine.

I was also too lazy to go about selling them once we were done. I'm still using old diapers to wipe up spills and my youngest has been out of diapers for over 10 years. :lol: They are wonderfully absorbent!

[Mama Mia]

I hope i don't offend anyone who loves clothies with this rant, since they are really cool... but cloth diapers are a major (and hard to understand imo) status symbol among sahm and fundie moms. Special detergent, special diaper rash cream because vaseline ruins the absorbency, those $50 poo sprayers that hook to the toilet tank, tons of cute prints that some moms collect, takes about a month to dry them in the dryer. I've even seen wahms who have businesses selling them battle over pattern rights. But they're still just poo catchers. Clothies are a major time consumer for poor families who truly cannot afford disposables. The chance for hand foot mouth, pinkeye, severe diaper rash/yeast infections etc etc etc etc are multiplied 1000x with clothies if they don't stay on top of it with diligence.

We had to do it for a couple years and we used the old fashioned squares, sometimes two at a time, masking tape to hold them on and those one layer waterproof covers with velcro. My dd used to waddle. :lol: She sat up really early because her diaper was like a built in Bumbo seat. At the time I was just thankful we didn't have to use elastic plastic panties like i did with my little siblings - leaky leaky. (my mom never discovered wool leak guards, she would have loved that). Being a germaphobe i did bleach water soaks, one rinse cycle and two hot washes, and sanitized our toilet every time before swishing out her poo diapers with like 3 flushes. But our water was free well water and we had a clothesline for sunshine sanitation too. :D The fundies who use status diapers (Zsu) are lying about being dirt poor, or they got them second hand and spend out the wazoo for hot water and dryer use and they probably have a ridiculous ton of laundry, bad diaper rash (the open sore kind of diaper rash) and a smelly house from all the leak accidents. Clothies can be done right, for environmental reasons or as a hobby, :lol: but it's not cheap, easy, or quick, and it bothers me when fundie moms act like it's a money saver, all things considered.

A fundie friend made her own insert style diapers and then would hang them around the house in the winter to dry. Gross.

/end rant. Trendy diapers are one of my pet peeves. Partly because i was envious of the moms who could afford them and partly because if it just doesn't make sense to jump through a bunch of hoops to take care of bodily waste unless a person is committed to taking care of the environment, which we know fundies think is not important. :evil:

I'm going to disagree with you on the awful diaper rashes coming from using cloth diapers. And, well, several other things you said.

I had my kids before the Internet ( something I am fervently grateful for!) and I was dirt poor when several of my kids were babies. So I was fortunate to avoid knowing diapering could be a competitive sport. :)

I used pretty much cloth only with my oldest.This was back when you just had pre-folds, a paper diaper liner

( when we extra cash) diaper pins and the plastic covers with a terry lining. I had a regular 1980s washer and dryer about half the time and a washer dryer in an apartment house laundry room the other half. I used whatever laundry detergent was on sale and paper towels or washcloths dipped in water for wipes, and A&D to prevent rashes ( when we had the cash)

So no fancy diapers, covers, soaps, lotions or washers and dryers--- which I didn't even know existed. I'm not a germaphobe -- although I greatly disliked the general grossness of diapers. :ew: all I would do is dispose of the cloth liner, rinse in the toilet if it was extra bad, throw in diaper pail ( old school kind) filled with water, a squeeze of dish soap and a little bleach. Wash on hot long cycle with a little bleach and dry in the dryer. That's it.

That kid toilet trained herself at 18 months and the only time she got a rash was in reaction to store bought wipes ( hence the use of water and paper towels or wash rags)

Kid two was exclusively disposable diapers and he had horrible, awful rashes. As did kid 4 who was in disposables 75% of the time -- and cloth when we were broke. Kid 3 had a few rashes, but not the awful bleeding kind kid 2and 4 had. For kid 4 once we switched out from the ultra absorbent disposables the rashes went away.

All those kids also toilet trained a good year later than cloth diapered sister.

So I think different kids will get rashes from a variety of causes. I would have loved to have all the extra cool extra absorbent cloth diapers and accessories they have now and if that's where they choose to put their $ it's probably still cheaper than disposables - especially if they don't have to go to the laundromat.

[Coco]

You're right clothies don't have to be terrible. I went overboard on the examples of bad things that can happen because moms i know who are into competitive diapering won't talk about the downsides. I'm in a MOPS group and trendy diapers are just an annoying status thing that i can't rant about there because that would be mommy group social suicide. :lol:

My dd has an old copy of Baby Dear (somewhere, couldn't find it to take a photo so this one is the closest i could find online). It shows the mom putting away stacks of fluffy diapers the old fashioned way before disposables were available. It's really sweet, and i wish that moms nowadays didn't have to make diapers a competition thing. Or the dozens of other things they do. I don't know why it's so hard to find moms who just want to be friends not try to one-up each other with strollers, diaper bags, baby shoes, snack containers, organic slings, homemade baby food... sigh. Life is too short to pin self-worth on things we buy.

[treemom]

I was another one who mixed cloth and disposable. I really don't care that someone hates trendy diapers. Last time I checked I was the one who had to deal with it.

I never get why things like this irritate people. Just because someone has different priorities. With Zu, at least I can get behind it from the poor mouthing over the medical expenses bit. But in general why the fuck does anyone care if someone who isn't blogging to tell us all how to live right or bragging uses expensive diapers?