Fundies and plastic surgery

[isarhenne]

Hi,

I just wanted to open a topic that I haven't seen on this forum so far. Fundies and their relationship with plastic surgery.

Do you think that if the Duggar and Bates girls wouldn't be as beautiful as they are the parents would pressure their daughters into getting some work done to their faces or even bodies?

It seems that especially the Duggar girls put a lot of effort into their looks: diets, styling their heir, a lot of make up.

It also bugs me that only the girls got braces whereas most, or all, of the boys didnt.

It just doesn't seem modest at all.

Do you think fundies would pressure their daughters into plastic surgery to improve their chances on the marriage market? Or even: did the Duggar or Bates daughters get some work done to their faces over the years because of TV and marriage?

[It'sFunToRun]

Hi,

I just wanted to open a topic that I haven't seen on this forum so far. Fundies and their relationship with plastic surgery.

Do you think that if the Duggar and Bates girls wouldn't be as beautiful as they are the parents would pressure their daughters into getting some work done to their faces or even bodies?

It seems that especially the Duggar girls put a lot of effort into their looks: diets, styling their heir, a lot of make up.

It also bugs me that only the girls got braces whereas most, or all, of the boys didnt.

It just doesn't seem modest at all.

Do you think fundies would pressure their daughters into plastic surgery to improve their chances on the marriage market? Or even: did the Duggar or Bates daughters get some work done to their faces over the years because of TV and marriage?

I don't think this has ever been addressed. I remember thinking Jessa's nose looked kinda fake once, but I think it's natural and just a little more smooth than most people's.

Ultra-Orthodox Jews are certainly fundies, but most sects allow plastic surgery. There was a big hoopla about a year or two ago because some yenta published an article saying the shidduch crisis should be fixed by having young Jewish women get nose jobs. There's a saying "if it's not forbidden, it's allowed", and we haven't heard of Gothard condemning plastic surgery, so I'm pretty sure it's okay.

[Iokaste]

It seems to me the beauty standards vary enourmously among fundies. Some like ATI and VF affiliated families have a very particular beauty ideal for girls and women: stay slim, have long flowing hair, wear jewellery, use make-up, etc. But I can't really see anyone suggesting plastic surgery for themselves or others, I think there'd be a lot of talk about "accepting yourself just the way God made you".

I also think we've seen enough of less conventionally pretty fundie girls on various blogs, to be able to say that plastic surgery isn't big among them.

On the other end of the spectrum from ATI/VF, the 7 sisters being an example, many don't even cover up bad skin, or wear a little light make-up on their wedding day.

[Mama Mia]

No, I don't think they would pressure them to get plastic surgery.

I think pressuring a kid to get plastic surgery to look more beautiful falls to a very, very narrow and minimal group of parents. The vast majority of parents just aren't that shallow and, well, mean.

I think the Duggar's might allow a daughter to get plastic surgery, maybe, if she had something that really, really bothered her. Because they do seem more lenient regarding make-up and clothes than most of their group. I don't think most fundies would. But allowing and pressuring are two very different things.

As to the braces--- I just did a quick google images search and it looks like at least Joe and Jason of the Duggar boys have had braces. When my daughter had braces I recall the orthodontist saying that girls tend to need braces more often, due to generally smaller jaws leading to more crookedness because of overcrowding. Same reason young women are more likely to need their wisdom teeth pulled.

[jerkit]

I very highly doubt they would do plastic surgery. When I was doing research for my breast reduction surgery, I found a fundie blog that said it was a sin to have any plastic surgery ever. I realize it's not a homogeneous issue, I just can't see them doing it.

[lilwriter85]

I kind of remember some people speculated that Anna Duggar had a nose job. I think some fundie lite types would get plastic surgery and there have probably some of that have had work done.

[It'sFunToRun]

It seems to me the beauty standards vary enourmously among fundies. Some like ATI and VF affiliated families have a very particular beauty ideal for girls and women: stay slim, have long flowing hair, wear jewellery, use make-up, etc. But I can't really see anyone suggesting plastic surgery for themselves or others, I think there'd be a lot of talk about "accepting yourself just the way God made you".

I also think we've seen enough of less conventionally pretty fundie girls on various blogs, to be able to say that plastic surgery isn't big among them.

On the other end of the spectrum from ATI/VF, the 7 sisters being an example, many don't even cover up bad skin, or wear a little light make-up on their wedding day.

I think a lot of fundies, including the 7 sisters, couldn't afford to have plastic surgery unless it were really serious.

I think that similar to non-fundies, the richer ones who are in the spotlight more often would consider it a choice and thus be more likely to do it. The poorer ones would not see it as a choice anyway, so they'd emphasis "it's what's inside that matters." or "G-d knew your physical imperfections and decided you were worthy enough to be made anyway."

I'm kinda glad I grew up poor because I was forced to accept faults in myself and others. Sometimes I think rich people are less happy because they grew up thinking that everything they don't like can be fixed, disposed of, or replaced.

[ThisOlGirl]

Among the fundies we snark on here, I can't think of any whose picture I looked at and said "Oh yeah, she/he has had work done". The closest I can think of is Lazy Lindsey and her giant blinding white teeth--I assume they're veneers. But, she's also had health problems, and maybe the treatments damaged her real teeth? I don't know.

I would think cosmetic surgery, cosmetic dentistry, fillers, etc., would me more common among the more affluent fundie lite crowd. I'm thinking people that follow the Joel Osteen prosperity gospel types. When I lived in Dallas, the very few women I knew that went to the mega-churches were very much into veneers, Botox, high end designer labels, all that. Or it could've just been that they lived in Dallas.

[Toothfairy]

With what money?? That's not exactly buy used. And isn't that hypocritical? God made you as you are. Unless they have a medical problem that requires reconstructive surgery, I can't see fundies doing it unless it was offer for free for the adults like Kate gossleins mommy makeover.

[ariel9]

If a fundie ever got plastic surgery it would more than likely be facial. I mean there is no bikini season for them.I think if a fundie girl ever got plastic surgery it would have to be from a family who was "wealthy". Theres many families who are not therefore it would not be an option. Not to mention a family that was "wealthy" would still likely have many kids in the house so the chances would still be slim to none. Theres a lot more useful things that they could spend at least $3000 on. I think their beauty regimes are limited to what mostly they can do themselves or have magazines/tv crews do to them.

[polecat]

I know of one fundy girl who had cosmetic surgery (orthognathic, iirc) to correct a severe facial abnormality. But that was probably more plastic surgery (which is reconstructive in nature) than cosmetic surgery (which is elective).

[nausicaa]

Among the fundies we snark on here, I can't think of any whose picture I looked at and said "Oh yeah, she/he has had work done". The closest I can think of is Lazy Lindsey and her giant blinding white teeth--I assume they're veneers. But, she's also had health problems, and maybe the treatments damaged her real teeth? I don't know.

The thing with GOOD cosmetic surgery is that you don't look at it and think "plastic surgery." It's the bad stuff that advertises itself.

I've, uh, had a little work done... And after I healed what I heard over and over was, "Have you lost weight?" Or "You've really grown into your face!" even from close family, if they said anything at all. And for the people I've met post-surgery, if I tell them they laugh and think I'm making a joke.

Also, when I was researching doctors, I was looking at one doctor's patient before and after photos (with the eyes blurred out) and I exclaimed to myself "I know those eyebrows!" in one of the photos. It was clearly an older woman from my Pilates class. I had seen her regularly for over a year and had never once thought she had had a facelift or Botox, because it was subtle and well done.

But I do agree that the price is just out of bounds for the vast majority of fundies. I do suspect that some of the older wives in the wealthier families have had some brow lifts and injections though.

[JMarie]

A lot of fundies use Samaritan Ministries. Does SM cover elective surgeries (including many plastic surgery procedures)?

[RosyDaisy]

Other than cosmetic dentistry or reconstructive surgery, I don't see fundies getting plastic surgery. Besides, you would be surprised what some makeup and hair spray can do.

[Callipygian]

I don't think this has ever been addressed. I remember thinking Jessa's nose looked kinda fake once, but I think it's natural and just a little more smooth than most people's.

Ultra-Orthodox Jews are certainly fundies, but most sects allow plastic surgery. There was a big hoopla about a year or two ago because some yenta published an article saying the shidduch crisis should be fixed by having young Jewish women get nose jobs. There's a saying "if it's not forbidden, it's allowed", and we haven't heard of Gothard condemning plastic surgery, so I'm pretty sure it's okay.

Jessa has my ideal nose. I hate mine and if I have enough money eventually, I'd love to get it done and use pics of Jessa's nose as a reference/guideline.

[cindyluvs24]

I suspect that if a fundy wanted plastic surgery, he/she would interpret a bible verse to justify it.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I think the Duggars would do it if one of their daughters had her face messed up because of an accident or something. I think it was Joy who fell off her bike and dinged her chin pretty badly, and then Jim Bob made some comment about getting her chin fixed because she was a girl and she needed her looks.

If they happened to have a daughter who wasn't as pretty (they're all lovely), I think she simply wouldn't get as much camera time as her sisters. John David gives me the impression that he doesn't like to be on camera so much, but some have speculated that he's not filmed as often as the other boys because he's not as handsome. There might be some truth to that.

[nausicaa]

Jessa has my ideal nose. I hate mine and if I have enough money eventually, I'd love to get it done and use pics of Jessa's nose as a reference/guideline.

Don't know who serious you are about surgery, but just a heads up that unfortunately cosmetic surgery isn't advanced enough to really do this. The surgeons still have to work with what you have. So if your nose is really bulbous, it isn't going to become Nicole Kidman's tiny ski slope. If you have zero upper lip you aren't going to become Angelina Jolie. The better results happen when someone works with their doctors to make their specific feature look the best it can be for them and their face. I was told by my surgeon that some of the whackier results out there happen because someone brings in a photo of a celebrity with features that are just wildly different from the patient's (sometimes even someone who is a different race) and the patient is adamant that he/she looks like that, no matter if the basic structure isn't there.

A lot of people also get disappointed/suffer depression because they think if they spend enough money they can look like whomever they want, and it's just not gonna happen. Surgery is sort of like a permanent makeup, it can improve things, but your face is still your face. It's probably fairly obvious by now that I got a nose job, and while my nose is smaller and straighter than before, it's not perfect or even my best feature, and it's certainly not a Jessa Duggar level nose. But I was older when I got the surgery and very realistic as to what the results would be and knew that I wouldn't magically become Audrey Hepburn overnight. If I had demanded some tiny little turned up thing, God only knows what I would look like...

[fiery redhead]

Hi,

I just wanted to open a topic that I haven't seen on this forum so far. Fundies and their relationship with plastic surgery.

Do you think that if the Duggar and Bates girls wouldn't be as beautiful as they are the parents would pressure their daughters into getting some work done to their faces or even bodies?

It seems that especially the Duggar girls put a lot of effort into their looks: diets, styling their heir, a lot of make up.

It also bugs me that only the girls got braces whereas most, or all, of the boys didnt.

It just doesn't seem modest at all.

Do you think fundies would pressure their daughters into plastic surgery to improve their chances on the marriage market? Or even: did the Duggar or Bates daughters get some work done to their faces over the years because of TV and marriage?

The Bates, probably not; the Duggars, they'd probably allow it. Gosh I can't get over how those girls are not allowed to show their collar bone but were allowed to spend so much time everyday on their appearance. Considering their thirst for fame in the midst of the suffocating cloud of hairspray and stench of fake tanner, they must really not have a sense of what modesty actually is. They follow Gothard's effed up philosophy. He advocated "modesty", but only as a front. He wanted those girls to be hot, and he made sure he and his sicko cronies chose the best for the harem that parents were so willing to release their precious daughters to.

[Olive Plant]

I knew an older woman who was fundie lite and generally kind of a horrible person. She used to brag about how she "submitted" to her husband even when she didn't want to (I later found out she'd had an affair, which she of course never mentioned) and she was really into sending people Bible verses to get them to do what she wanted. After her husband died she got a second round of plastic surgery and started online dating some crazy guy who was into Biblical prophecy and end-times predictions. She got the surgery because she was convinced no man would date her otherwise, but it was a dead secret, because the other Christians would think she was vain.

[Callipygian]

Don't know who serious you are about surgery, but just a heads up that unfortunately cosmetic surgery isn't advanced enough to really do this. The surgeons still have to work with what you have. So if your nose is really bulbous, it isn't going to become Nicole Kidman's tiny ski slope. If you have zero upper lip you aren't going to become Angelina Jolie. The better results happen when someone works with their doctors to make their specific feature look the best it can be for them and their face. I was told by my surgeon that some of the whackier results out there happen because someone brings in a photo of a celebrity with features that are just wildly different from the patient's (sometimes even someone who is a different race) and the patient is adamant that he/she looks like that, no matter if the basic structure isn't there.

A lot of people also get disappointed/suffer depression because they think if they spend enough money they can look like whomever they want, and it's just not gonna happen. Surgery is sort of like a permanent makeup, it can improve things, but your face is still your face. It's probably fairly obvious by now that I got a nose job, and while my nose is smaller and straighter than before, it's not perfect or even my best feature, and it's certainly not a Jessa Duggar level nose. But I was older when I got the surgery and very realistic as to what the results would be and knew that I wouldn't magically become Audrey Hepburn overnight. If I had demanded some tiny little turned up thing, God only knows what I would look like...

I'm serious, but it's mostly a pipe dream for the moment. I know it's unlikely I'd end up with exactly what I want, but a guideline is good. The tip of my nose actually isn't bad, but the bridge is awful. I had a friend get one (and insurance covered it, septoplasty and rhinoplasty! I hope I'm eventually that lucky as I think it is the root of some issues I have) and she asked for Kim Kardashian's nose, the 2011 version. Her doctor got her head out of the clouds pretty damn quick. I just dream about having a cute little nose, or at least not a big, hideous one haha.

[nausicaa]

I'm serious, but it's mostly a pipe dream for the moment. I know it's unlikely I'd end up with exactly what I want, but a guideline is good. The tip of my nose actually isn't bad, but the bridge is awful. I had a friend get one (and insurance covered it, septoplasty and rhinoplasty! I hope I'm eventually that lucky as I think it is the root of some issues I have) and she asked for Kim Kardashian's nose, the 2011 version. Her doctor got her head out of the clouds pretty damn quick. I just dream about having a cute little nose, or at least not a big, hideous one haha.

Oh okay, I actually got the exact opposite. The bridge of my nose is fairly straight and not arched too badly, but the tip was really long and bulbous, so they took it in some and gave it some shape. What you want done is actually normally more successful and has more reliable results. The only thing is that I know the recovery time is longer and you get serious black eyes (which I thankfully avoided because my doctor never had to break anything). Also because the nose naturally swells after surgery, mine just became bulbous again and then little by little shrunk down into the final result, so it was a subtle adjustment for friends/co-workers and I've never had to have the "did you get work done" talk. I totally understand wanting a cute nose, I didn't even necessarily need a good nose, I just wanted one that didn't jump out at you first thing when I smiled! And dang, your friend got insurance to cover it? I am super jealous.

My surgeon had a bunch of funny stories about white women bringing in pictures of Beyonce asking to look like her, or sixty year old women honestly expecting to be mistaken for teenagers again after a facelift. Some people really do believe surgery is like a magic wand that can make you whatever you want.

Also--I love your avatar and am kicking myself that I didn't think of that!

[Callipygian]

Oh okay, I actually got the exact opposite. The bridge of my nose is fairly straight and not arched too badly, but the tip was really long and bulbous, so they took it in some and gave it some shape. What you want done is actually normally more successful and has more reliable results. The only thing is that I know the recovery time is longer and you get serious black eyes (which I thankfully avoided because my doctor never had to break anything). Also because the nose naturally swells after surgery, mine just became bulbous again and then little by little shrunk down into the final result, so it was a subtle adjustment for friends/co-workers and I've never had to have the "did you get work done" talk. I totally understand wanting a cute nose, I didn't even necessarily need a good nose, I just wanted one that didn't jump out at you first thing when I smiled! And dang, your friend got insurance to cover it? I am super jealous.

My surgeon had a bunch of funny stories about white women bringing in pictures of Beyonce asking to look like her, or sixty year old women honestly expecting to be mistaken for teenagers again after a facelift. Some people really do believe surgery is like a magic wand that can make you whatever you want.

Also--I love your avatar and am kicking myself that I didn't think of that!

Thanks for comisserating with me about bad noses! I'm glad you were able to get yours done and you seem to be happy with it :D. I'm a realist, and it sounds like you are as well, which I think is really important when it comes to cosmetic surgery.

Thanks :)!

[MsSourPickle]

I don't know if this was asked or not or if it doesn't belong here but I have Counting On on the Tele and what happened to Jessa's upper lip. Her lip is puffy when it wasn't when she first met Bin.  I also can't stand it when  she smiles. It seems like her teeth run together and she tips her head when she smiles with those same size teeth.