Being a Virgin on the Wedding Night

[LongDogMom]

This is clearly a big deal in the Fundy world with the Purity Balls and such, and it's also a big deal for the Duggars...with the not even kissing until the wedding. I would not be surprised if Ben was still a virgin, and we know Jessa is, and Jill was, but do you think Derick was more experienced having gone to a secular university and so on?

[mebeforee]

I'd actually think that, having gone to college, that would be a huge concern for both JimBob and Jill (who has also been taught that purity is of the utmost importance). It seems likely that if he wasn't a virgin it'd be a dealbreaker for them, so if he'd had sex before he would have had to lie about it. But the fact that he apparently wanted to be a prayer partner with JimBob before ever meeting Jill, I think it's likely he shares their beliefs about those things. He may have kissed someone before, which I'd imagine would still be a stumbling block for his courtship with Jill, but kissing is probably within the acceptable range of 'going too far' before marriage. I don't think they'd feel that way about sex, and they'd probably have a lot of questions about his college experience just to be 100% sure he was still "pure".

[singsingsing]

Just because someone goes to college and is more secular doesn't mean they can't be a virgin. I've known plenty of Christians, much more liberal than Derick, who went to university, dressed 'immodestly' (according to Duggar standards), drank, lived alone, were alone with their boyfriends/girlfriends, etc. etc. and still waited until their wedding night to have sex. If they could do it, someone like Derick definitely could. I'd say it's a pretty safe bet he was a virgin - it would've been difficult for him to pass their courtship exam if he wasn't. But whether or not these people are/were virgins is really the least of their problems. Virginity is basically a b.s. social construct, and attitudes toward sex, intimacy, and communication end up mattering a lot more than whether they did it before or after the wedding night.

[mebeforee]

I remained a virgin after finishing college and I'm not even a Christian, nor do I think there's purity lost by having sex. I just didn't date any guys at that time in my life that I wanted to lose my virginity to. People can attach emotional value to sex regardless of their faith, though I think a lot of Christians feel pressured into staying virgins when they WOULD like to have sex with their partners, which I think is unfortunate. But yeah, I think that Derick could easily have remained a virgin. It's really not that difficult to do.

[singsingsing]

I remained a virgin after finishing college and I'm not even a Christian, nor do I think there's purity lost by having sex. I just didn't date any guys at that time in my life that I wanted to lose my virginity to. People can attach emotional value to sex regardless of their faith, though I think a lot of Christians feel pressured into staying virgins when they WOULD like to have sex with their partners, which I think is unfortunate. But yeah, I think that Derick could easily have remained a virgin. It's really not that difficult to do.

Same. I made it all the way through university without even kissing, by choice, and it wasn't due to religion, it was just due to not meeting anyone I particularly wanted to do it with. Also not to be tmi but it's not like I'm repressed or have a low sex drive. I would not have remained celibate if I had been with someone I wanted to have sex with, but if you've got the right motivation it's really not difficult to wait. Not necessarily pleasant, but definitely not difficult.

[mebeforee]

To be fair, it may be harder for those who think masturbation is evil, which these individuals probably do... :shrug: And this may also be tmi on my part, lol, but I don't have a low sex drive either. Since I could take care of myself in that regard I don't recall having any internal battles over, idk, overwhelming desire for every attractive person that walked by. Whatever they think happens in the minds of unsupervised young people.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I think Derick has likely kissed girlfriends before Jill, but one thing that makes me think that Jill was his first is that an ex-girlfriend hasn't come out of the woodworks with a tell-all story about any sexual encounters shared with him.

Fundies tend to be rather fanatically fixated on protecting their own interests and one another. Anyone Derick met outside of the system who was ready and willing for sex, and actually went through with it with Derick, would be more likely to talk to the media.

*I will add that he quite possibly could have done the deed with someone in fundiedom, and then they were both so ashamed that they refused to discuss it with anyone in their own circles. It's always possible, but it seems more likely to me that we all would have heard something by now if Derick had an ex to speak of.

[nst]

This is clearly a big deal in the Fundy world with the Purity Balls and such, and it's also a big deal for the Duggars...with the not even kissing until the wedding. I would not be surprised if Ben was still a virgin, and we know Jessa is, and Jill was, but do you think Derick was more experienced having gone to a secular university and so on?

Ben reeks of being a virgin - and I bet you dollars to donuts he is counting the days on a calender tucked away in a shoe box

Derick I doubt was - I bet he had one long time girlfriend and they did it like bunnies

on Jill\s questionnaire

Number 403 - Are you a virgin

Number 404 - Why not

[singsingsing]

I don't know why anyone would assume that a conservative Christian missionary who actively sought a Duggar daughter as a spouse would have had a long-term girlfriend and/or a sexual relationship before marriage. It just would not have been acceptable to him, at all. If he had had sex before marriage he would've thought of it as a horrible, horrible mistake. The dude is only 25, it's not like he's 40, had 5 known ex-girlfriends, and is still claiming virginity (not that that's impossible, just a lot less likely).

[mebeforee]

I wouldn't assume he had a long-term girlfriend, though it's possible. But if being a virgin before marriage was very important to him, which seems likely, I doubt he'd have dated anyone who didn't share that ideal. I do think that, judging from his history and family, he probably never considered a strict courtship before meeting Jill, because his family doesn't appear to be part of the same lifestyle. He may have dated other girls, and was almost certainly friends with girls without entering romantic relationships with them. But the purity culture extends waaaaaaay beyond just Quiverfull and Duggar lifestyles, and Derick appears to be a very devout Christian who probably took that very seriously.

[Toothfairy]

I known plenty of people who remained virgins in college and even in their 40s. I also went to college and grad school and remained a virgin until marriage. Sex was just something I wasn't interested in nor did I really date. I was too focused on school and other things to worry about sex or relationships.

[Mela99]

Ben reeks of being a virgin - and I bet you dollars to donuts he is counting the days on a calender tucked away in a shoe box

Derick I doubt was - I bet he had one long time girlfriend and they did it like bunnies

on Jill\s questionnaire

Number 403 - Are you a virgin

Number 404 - Why not

Was that seriously on her questionnaire!?

[mebeforee]

I do REALLY want to know what's on the questionnaire, lmao. I would love to read those questions. If their show's a ministry, isn't that information that should be shared? Teach us how to choose our daughter's husbands, Duggars!

[mebeforee]

I known plenty of people who remained virgins in college and even in their 40s. I also went to college and grad school and remained a virgin until marriage. Sex was just something I wasn't interested in nor did I really date. I was too focused on school and other things to worry about sex or relationships.

I think it's really not that uncommon. Most tv shows or books or movies would have you believe adult virgins (outside of weird religious sects) don't exist... even the least attractive (or 'nerdiest') characters on TV never seem to be virgins, but I expect there are a large number of people who wait until they meet the 'right' person. And if you don't meet that person at 16 or 18 or 20 or even up through 40, then you don't. People aren't going to run out and find someone to bang just because they've hit some invisible age deadline for virginity. :roll:

So I think Derick probably was a virgin, and I doubt he struggled very much with that. The problem of the purity culture isn't so much the acceptance of virginity, it's the pushing of it... the problems are more the shame it attaches to sex, which can have longer lasting effects on a person's psyche. It makes them feel dirty for wanting sex, when that is how most people naturally feel in certain situations, and I think that marriage doesn't magically negate the impulse to be ashamed if they've been ingrained in a person for their entire life. It's all the way the topic is treated and the value attached to it while the child is being brought up.

[BrownieMomma]

I doubt Derick did anything even though he went to a secular university. I went to one and now work at one. Even when I went back when I was in my 40's, I was friendly with classmates and it was not unusual for students to be virgins, mostly it seemed to have nothing to do with religion at all.

Derick wouldn't have been hanging out with frat boys, drinking, going to clubs or otherwise putting himself in position to be in a subculture where it's expected to be sexual and opportunities are created. He would have been hanging out at the BSM or with other fundies. Going to church.

Pretty sure Derick was a virgin on his wedding night. I'm cynical enough of the Duggar TV machine that there is no way Jim Bob would have allowed the courtship and marriage to happen if there was any hint that Derick wasn't pure. No matter what it meant to Jill.

[Feberin]

I also think Derrick was a virgin. Boob constantly shames Michelle about things she did with other guys giving away pieces of her heart and all. If he has problems like that there is no way in my opinion that he would give his most devout daughter away to marry a guy that has had SEX! I wouldn't be shocked to find that Derrick dated or kissed other girls but I would be shocked to find out he actually had sex before June 21st.

I also was a virgin throughout college and I'm an atheist. I just never met the right guy or I guess I should say the right guy at the right time because I did know my husband in college but he was dating somebody else at the time.

[RosyDaisy]

I didn't lose my virginity until my senior year of college. My reasons had nothing to do religion. Anyway, let's get real. All of these young adult fundies are for the most part isolated until they attend homeschooling conferences or host like minded families. With all those pent up feelings and raging hormones, I don't for one second believe these fundie, especially the older Duggars are all virgins. Furthermore, all that purity talk sounds like they are trying too hard to prove something.

[HarryPotterFan]

I think it's really not that uncommon. Most tv shows or books or movies would have you believe adult virgins (outside of weird religious sects) don't exist... even the least attractive (or 'nerdiest') characters on TV never seem to be virgins, but I expect there are a large number of people who wait until they meet the 'right' person. And if you don't meet that person at 16 or 18 or 20 or even up through 40, then you don't. People aren't going to run out and find someone to bang just because they've hit some invisible age deadline for virginity. :roll:

So I think Derick probably was a virgin, and I doubt he struggled very much with that. The problem of the purity culture isn't so much the acceptance of virginity, it's the pushing of it... the problems are more the shame it attaches to sex, which can have longer lasting effects on a person's psyche. It makes them feel dirty for wanting sex, when that is how most people naturally feel in certain situations, and I think that marriage doesn't magically negate the impulse to be ashamed if they've been ingrained in a person for their entire life. It's all the way the topic is treated and the value attached to it while the child is being brought up.

Re the bolded: THIS! It's almost like in secular society people who are past a certain age and are virgins have something to be ashamed about. And if you have sex with "too many" partners, that's shameful too. It's kind of fucked up. One of my friends lost her virginity just to get it over with. I got through college and grad school without ever having sex. I just haven't met the "right" person yet (Though, I did date one guy and think about it and he broke up with me before I could express that desire. Hahaha, you friggin butt face). I feel like people act like something is wrong with someone in their 20's who've never had sex, and that bugs me. It's a choice, nothing to do with religion (though I wonder if part of it was my health classes in middle and high school, which associated sex with dirtiness and all that).

And I have plenty of friends who haven't had sex who aren't religious or are atheist. So this is a long way of saying yeah, I think he probably was a virgin. It's really not hard or impossible to not have sex. I think I know a couple people in their 20's who haven't even kissed someone. Though, I think Derick has kissed someone else because no one talked about his lip virginity.

[It'sFunToRun]

Derrick studied accounting, right? So I'm saying virgin :lol:

(This comes from someone who also majored in a math-based science.)

[Four is Enough]

It's not completely unheard of to be a virgin on the wedding night In the secular world. My family is Catholic. Older brother (19): bride knocked up and showing on wedding day; middle child, (me, 24) "soiled dove" on wedding night, didn't even marry the "first" boy to touch me; third child (18), virgin on wedding night.

[Feberin]

I didn't lose my virginity until my senior year of college. My reasons had nothing to do religion. Anyway, let's get real. All of these young adult fundies are for the most part isolated until they attend homeschooling conferences or host like minded families. With all those pent up feelings and raging hormones, I don't for one second believe these fundie, especially the older Duggars are all virgins. Furthermore, all that purity talk sounds like they are trying too hard to prove something.

I would bet there are a lot of ATI families with older children who are not virgins but I would be surprised if any of the older Duggars have lost their virginity yet. The only one I could think was Josh especially all that sin in the camp stuff that was going around when he was a teenager. Of course the sin could have just been something like masturbation. But JD and Joseph just seem too quiet to manage to attract a girl especially clandestinely hiding it. And I think the Duggars keep the older girls too busy to have alone time to sneak off with a guy. I wouldn't be surprised if not all the Howlers or Lost Girls make it to their wedding day virgins. The Howlers are so many they would have brothers who could cover for them plus they're famous and could use that to their advantage with some star struck fundie girl. And I think by the time the Lost Girls are teens Jim Bob and Michelle won't have the energy or interest to keep tabs on all of them. Josie though will be right by Michelle's side since she'll be speaking about how God chose to save her.

[Coconut Flan]

Since many people think the whole Josh was guilty of something was an early Razin Ruth adventure, I wouldn't put a lot of faith in that one.

I do think it will become easier and easier for the younger Duggars to gain more freedom.

[Toothfairy]

My money's on John David, isn't as innocent as we think

[DGayle]

I known plenty of people who remained virgins in college and even in their 40s. I also went to college and grad school and remained a virgin until marriage. Sex was just something I wasn't interested in nor did I really date. I was too focused on school and other things to worry about sex or relationships.

It made for a hilarious movie.

[DGayle]

Re the bolded: THIS! It's almost like in secular society people who are past a certain age and are virgins have something to be ashamed about. And if you have sex with "too many" partners, that's shameful too. It's kind of fucked up. One of my friends lost her virginity just to get it over with. I got through college and grad school without ever having sex. I just haven't met the "right" person yet (Though, I did date one guy and think about it and he broke up with me before I could express that desire. Hahaha, you friggin butt face). I feel like people act like something is wrong with someone in their 20's who've never had sex, and that bugs me. It's a choice, nothing to do with religion (though I wonder if part of it was my health classes in middle and high school, which associated sex with dirtiness and all that).

And I have plenty of friends who haven't had sex who aren't religious or are atheist. So this is a long way of saying yeah, I think he probably was a virgin. It's really not hard or impossible to not have sex. I think I know a couple people in their 20's who haven't even kissed someone. Though, I think Derick has kissed someone else because no one talked about his lip virginity.

I had sex before I was really ready because, where I was a teenager, if you didn't have sex by 20 or so, you were seen as undesirable. There were tons of young marriages. One of my good friends for married while still in high school.

Regrets. I have them thanks to society's message.

But now that I'm an adult who has had more one-night-stands than the average number of sex partners for American adults, I own it. Want to call me a slut? I'll wear that badge with price. There's nothing to be ashamed of.