The ALS Challenge Kills Babies!

[Rachel333]

afa.net/the-stand/sanctity-of-life/the-als-challenge-kills-babies/

(It's not a blog, so I don't think the link really needs to be broken.)

This has been going around my facebook. Gotta love the attention-getting title. :roll:

I think some people feel like they just have to oppose anything really popular. I've seen a few articles within the last few days criticizing it for being a waste of water, which seems also like quite a stretch to find offense.

[Coco]

oh for gosh sakes. Well i guess that's the Duggars' way to get out of doing it.

[Firiel]

http://afa.net/the-stand/sanctity-of-life/the-als-challenge-kills-babies/

(It's not a blog, so I don't think the link really needs to be broken.)

This has been going around my facebook. Gotta love the attention-getting title. :roll:

I think some people feel like they just have to oppose anything really popular. I've seen a few articles within the last few days criticizing it for being a waste of water, which seems also like quite a stretch to find offense.

Maybe not so much a stretch for the places really struggling with drought recently, especially the videos where they fill whole trashcans up.

But I don't personally live in a drought-affected area, so I don't really know. I just know it's getting pretty bad some places.

[Palimpsest]

Eh, it was only a matter of time before the Fundies caught up with this. Yep, research on Motor Neuron Diseases does use stem cells, but embryonic stem cell research is obsolete these days. I wish they would wake up and smell the coffee but accuracy is not a Fundie strength.

I can certainly find things to criticize about the campaign (see the thread on WWoS) but "philosophical cannibalism" is not among them. :P

[Firiel]

Eh, it was only a matter of time before the Fundies caught up with this. Yep, research on Motor Neuron Diseases does use stem cells, but embryonic stem cell research is obsolete these days. I wish they would wake up and smell the coffee but accuracy is not a Fundie strength.

I can certainly find things to criticize about the campaign (see the thread on WWoS) but "philosophical cannibalism" is not among them. :P

Do you have a good link for this? Not doubting your information at all! I'd just love to have a quick-and-easy reference that I can point to when people get up-in-arms about it...

[Palimpsest]

So sorry. I should have phrased it better and as "rapidly becoming obsolete." There are dozens of scholarly articles out there about labs wanting to move away from using embryonic stem cells. Here are two readable ones showing how stem cells are being created from cells from adults. It's pretty amazing really! :)

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/09/16/b ... .research/

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2 ... ut-embryo/

[Firiel]

So sorry. I should have phrased it better and as "rapidly becoming obsolete." There are dozens of scholarly articles out there about labs wanting to move away from using embryonic stem cells. Here are two readable ones showing how stem cells are being created from cells from adults. It's pretty amazing really! :)

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/09/16/b ... .research/

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2 ... ut-embryo/

Thank you!

[Mama Mia]

afa.net/the-stand/sanctity-of-life/the-als-challenge-kills-babies/

(It's not a blog, so I don't think the link really needs to be broken.)

This has been going around my facebook. Gotta love the attention-getting title. :roll:

I think some people feel like they just have to oppose anything really popular. I've seen a few articles within the last few days criticizing it for being a waste of water, which seems also like quite a stretch to find offense.

Well I'm currently doing a load of laundry, so probably shouldn't talk, but yeah the drought really, really is that bad.

Here's a terrifying map:

http://www.ibtimes.com/california-droug ... er-1645650

I don't know about this particular news source, but the map pops up all over the place, including the news, so it's accurate. And the part of the state that is " only" in severe drought status is basically a desert anyway, so it's not getting more water than other parts, it just didn't have much to lose in the first place.

[Coco]

yep they say the ogallala aquifer will be dried up within 50 years...

That's one reason why we decided to move north even though almost my entire family is still in OK and TX. :| We didn't tell them because they'd just laugh at us. But if it gets bad enough they'll have a place to come and live with us.

i worked in accounting for a small town and overheard a lot of strategy talk. The water crisis is scary behind the scenes.

news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/08/140819-groundwater-california-drought-aquifers-hidden-crisis/

[Howl]

There are dozens of scholarly articles out there about labs wanting to move away from using embryonic stem cells.

I'm sure out of funding desperation and uncertainty about funding in the future:

"A recent ruling by a federal judge has overturned President Obama’s 2009 executive order, saying that it violated a 1987 law prohibiting the use of taxpayer money for any research in which a human embryo is destroyed.

Chief Judge Royce C. Lamberth of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia took a broad approach in his ruling.

Say a research project doesn’t destroy an embryo itself. If it uses previously obtained embryonic stem cells, it still is not eligible for federal funding. “If one step or ‘piece of research’ of an ESC research project results in the destruction of an embryo, the entire project is precluded from receiving federal funding,†Lamberth wrote.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

On a related note, a vegan fb friend of mine posted that the ALS foundation tests on animals and that had her all riled up.

[Palimpsest]

I'm sure out of funding desperation and uncertainty about funding in the future:

"A recent ruling by a federal judge has overturned President Obama’s 2009 executive order, saying that it violated a 1987 law prohibiting the use of taxpayer money for any research in which a human embryo is destroyed.

Chief Judge Royce C. Lamberth of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia took a broad approach in his ruling.

Say a research project doesn’t destroy an embryo itself. If it uses previously obtained embryonic stem cells, it still is not eligible for federal funding. “If one step or ‘piece of research’ of an ESC research project results in the destruction of an embryo, the entire project is precluded from receiving federal funding,†Lamberth wrote.

But of course. I'm pondering on what point you are trying to make here.

The researchers saw the writing on the wall about the controversy surrounding the use of embryonic stem cells w-w-a-a-a-y-y-y before the 2009 ruling. If you look at the articles I linked you will see that the first breakthrough in creating non-embryonic stem cells was in 2007. They were working on it well before then. Because Fundies.

FFS, if the people so against the use of embryonic stem cells in research (for ways to treat bloody awful diseases) would support research into alternatives through creating stem cells from other sources it would be great. But say "stem cell" to them and they throw hysterical fits.

Of course it would also be really great if the Fundies who have conniptions about embryos would also educate themselves and their children enough to understand that science isn't always bad. But they don't. :(

I'm no scientist but I think this news is wonderful.

[JMarie]

Kind of OT

Sometimes I read a FB page written by a fundie SAHM who is studying for her naturopathic doctor degree at home (but that's currently on hold because she can't afford the remainder of the tuition). She suggested that ALS is really mercury toxicity, and ALS patients should have a hair analysis. And followers just gobble up whatever medical misinformation she spews.

[LaLele]

On a related note, a vegan fb friend of mine posted that the ALS foundation tests on animals and that had her all riled up.

I have never understood this viewpoint. Oh course drugs are tested on animals before humans. Is it sad? sometimes. Would I rather drug testing and research come to a halt because of an inability to perform clinical testing? not so much.

[amster]

afa.net/the-stand/sanctity-of-life/the-als-challenge-kills-babies/

(It's not a blog, so I don't think the link really needs to be broken.)

This has been going around my facebook. Gotta love the attention-getting title. :roll:

I think some people feel like they just have to oppose anything really popular. I've seen a few articles within the last few days criticizing it for being a waste of water, which seems also like quite a stretch to find offense.

Living in a country where we have farmers who commit suicide during times of extreme drought, I can understand people being concerned about water usage. I guess it's different if you haven't grown up experiencing the extremes drought tends to bring about.

[KnittingOwl]

On a related note, a vegan fb friend of mine posted that the ALS foundation tests on animals and that had her all riled up.

That's always driven me crazy. I'm a molecular biologist. Sadly, I've done animal testing of medications. It sucks. I don't know anyone who likes it, but we all understand the necessity.

My PhD program chair has this poster on his office door. I love it.

[darkplumaged]

Kind of OT

Sometimes I read a FB page written by a fundie SAHM who is studying for her naturopathic doctor degree at home (but that's currently on hold because she can't afford the remainder of the tuition). She suggested that ALS is really mercury toxicity, and ALS patients should have a hair analysis. And followers just gobble up whatever medical misinformation she spews.

Ah, yes--mercury, the ignorant person's scapegoat for just about any neurological disorder. :roll:

[Mama Mia]

Kind of OT

Sometimes I read a FB page written by a fundie SAHM who is studying for her naturopathic doctor degree at home (but that's currently on hold because she can't afford the remainder of the tuition). She suggested that ALS is really mercury toxicity, and ALS patients should have a hair analysis. And followers just gobble up whatever medical misinformation she spews.

I don't get the all or nothing with extremists. Yes heavy metals, and toxins and pesticides and medication reactions and cealic disease and Lyme disease can all cause major health problems. But that doesn't mean that EVERYONE who has major health problems will get better if they get rid of heavy metals, are treated for Lyme and eat all organic, non GMO and change their meds....and most especially --- Gluten in and of itself is not bad! Some people being Gluten intolerant or having Cealic disease does not equal EVERYONE needs to stop eating cookies! :nenner:

It really bugs me because I think it makes it to easy to dismiss any non- mainstream explanations for health issues, if some of the people promoting possible alternatives make huge generalizations.

And on topic: they just did a blurb about the Ice Bucket Challenge on " You Think You Can Dance" -- but the guy did a big donation only (due to health issues) and talked a bit about what ALS is and how to donate. So that was good.

[Rachel333]

Living in a country where we have farmers who commit suicide during times of extreme drought, I can understand people being concerned about water usage. I guess it's different if you haven't grown up experiencing the extremes drought tends to bring about.

It is; I do understand the concern in areas where water does need to be conserved, but in places where it is not an issue it's not like someone can send the bucket of water they might have otherwise used to the drought-stricken areas.

I have never understood this viewpoint. Oh course drugs are tested on animals before humans. Is it sad? sometimes. Would I rather drug testing and research come to a halt because of an inability to perform clinical testing? not so much.

I agree, and I suppose I'm even kind of a bleeding heart myself when it comes to animals. I'm vegan and oppose animal testing for non-medical products, but I think it is completely justified when done with the goal of saving human life.

[paganhomeschooler]

My turning-ever-more-fundie-lite cousin just posted that they will be donating to the "JP2 medical research institute because we don't support embryonic stem cell research. :-)" FYI - JP2 stands for John Paul II. (I had to google, but I guess I should have known that, bad ex-Catholic.) From their website: "Supports only pro-life medical research." Because most medical research is pro-death?? :pull-hair: My cousin is a turning into a child hoarding leg humper. I don't even want to know how off the deep end she'll go if they lose the foster they have now.

[starfish]

One of the best things about the ice bucket challenge is that it might help fund stem cell research which will really irritate the fundies.

On a related note, I thought George W. Bush's challenge was pretty cute and all, but I was surprised. Didn't he sign an executive order

preventing any federal funds from going to stem cell research? I mean, he was all for war and stuff, but the feds can't fund important

medical research because of the sanctity of life and all. How does someone live with so much cognitive dissonance?

I guess I'm just being cranky and tired this Friday. I need to pour a bucket of ice water on my head to perk up.

[infooverload]

I have seen the articles posted on fb from my brother-in-law and I'm already irritated at him for another matter so this was icing on the proverbial crap cake. What irritated me was a statement in the article from the American Family Association stating embryionic stem cell research has shown no scientific benefit. I was going oh really nice stating of fact with no peer reviewed articles backing it up. Then there is this idea of oh these scientist are intentionaly creating embroys for destruction. From my understanding the embroys are obtained from invitro fertilization service companies and it is the extra embroys. So basically the attitude is keep these cells in the freezer instead of them serving a scientific use. Makes me just go WTF along with posting.php?mode=reply&f=8&t=22942&sid=9b0f982d51323fd927fa799e925eae4c#.

[DGayle]

afa.net/the-stand/sanctity-of-life/the-als-challenge-kills-babies/

(It's not a blog, so I don't think the link really needs to be broken.)

This has been going around my facebook. Gotta love the attention-getting title. :roll:

I think some people feel like they just have to oppose anything really popular. I've seen a few articles within the last few days criticizing it for being a waste of water, which seems also like quite a stretch to find offense.

Not when you're in a drought. I've got family in California, in an area where you are in major shit if your grass is green right now, or you wash a car. My inlaws told me that a lot of people are even doing the "if it's yellow, it's mellow, but if it's brown, flush it down," when it comes to the bathroom. I kind of like flushing after I pee, but they can't (toilet paper goes in a trash can). So it is a very big deal to be dumping several gallons of water. I have seen a video of a man dumping sand on his head. It was call the California bucket challenge.

[DaffyDill]

After the expected fundie-type stem cells arguments, we now have the esteemed Pamela Anderson refusing the bucket challenge due to prior research into the disease using tests on animals.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/2 ... 98854.html (Link not broken - Huffington Post)

Why coldn't she still have done the challenge and just donated her funds to a charity of her choice if she felt so strongly...oh yeah, the story may not have been picked up by media if she just quietly donated to an animal shelter or whatever. This whole challenge thing started as a "donate to a charity of your choice" fundraiser anyway, I'm fairly sure.

My sons boss did the challenge yesterday, and the staff member who made the highest donation got to tip the water all over her (my son was the "winner") - so they raised quite a bit of money for a small place. She donated the funds to the Anti-Cancer Foundation as it was Daffodill Day here in Australia, a day to raise awareness for cancer research. Old Pammy could easily have done something similar instead of being a primadonna :snooty:

[ADoyle90815]

The first time I heard about that challenge, the people doing it were donating it to breast cancer research, but the phrase would offend fundies as it's "Save the Boobies." As I live in California as well, I think it's wasteful for people in this state to do that ice bucket challenge regardless of the charity as we are in a serious drought.

I do like the meme that's been all over Facebook today of Gizmo from "The Gremlins" saying he's going to do the challenge, and what could possibly go wrong.