Adeye (No Greater Joy blog) is adopting 4 embryos

[Mama Mia]

The reason that she (and other people) would implant four at once instead of two, then two more is because (1) it costs half as much money and (2) the process leading up to implantation requires a bunch of shots and hormones, and the implantation itself is rather unpleasant. I've heard of the shots causing such bloating and discomfort that women have had to take off work.

"I would think she would just act as a gestational surrogate and give any resulting babies to the bio mom."

I know you've said before that you have kids, so I won't describe to you how annoying pregnancy and childbirth are, but I don't think most people would be willing to go through that without getting a hefty payment or a baby at the end. Or doing it for a sister or really close friend, maybe.

That makes sense as far as the process for implantation, but I would think the risk of problems potentially carrying 4-8 fetuses would out-weigh that, but that's just me.

I would usually agree regarding surrogacy....but since she's adopting the embryos to save them, and the bio mom seems to have desperately wanted them, it just seems to make more sense for her to give them over. And yea, WELL aware of the discomforts of pregnancy!

[Mama Mia]

Yeah, that's it ! I was looking for the word, I thought tubal ligation was for men (I stopped biology at 16...)

I was really surprised when i read this.

I think sterilization - either a tubal ligation for women or a vasectomy for men - would be a very popular option for non-quiverfull types, especially if they are strongly anti-abortion and believe some forms of birth control are preventing not just conception but fertilization.

If you believe life begins at conception, but have no philosophical issues with having only the number of children you want-- it really seems like the logical choice once you've completed your family.

Very, very, very slim chance of an unplanned pregnancy and juggling another child. Or, worst case, having a birth control failure that leads to a fetus that is incompatible with life, or poses severe health risk to the mother and having to make that choice.

Remember, the population of quiverfull is really, really tiny, it just seems big to us, cause here we are.

[Coco]

I think sterilization - either a tubal ligation for women or a vasectomy for men - would be a very popular option for non-quiverfull types, especially if they are strongly anti-abortion and believe some forms of birth control are preventing not just conception but fertilization.

If you believe life begins at conception, but have no philosophical issues with having only the number of children you want-- it really seems like the logical choice once you've completed your family.

Very, very, very slim chance of an unplanned pregnancy and juggling another child. Or, worst case, having a birth control failure that leads to a fetus that is incompatible with life, or poses severe health risk to the mother and having to make that choice.

it is really popular and some of the higher ups have even condemned it saying women need to give up their bodies for the cause.

visionarywomanhood.com/help-pregnancy-is-making-my-body-fall-apart/

I only wish that it were cheaper, it just makes so much sense for women who are smart enough to realize when they've reached the limit of what they can handle. Birth control and Plan B are not my favorite things to put my body through. :| But i just know i can't handle more children, and life has jaded me so much that i don't believe God cares enough to limit something that would be devastating. Many fundie guys don't realize the burden that having and parenting small children puts on their wives, because they are trained to not even worry much about what goes on beyond providing.

Imo it's terrible of Natalie Klejwa and her collaborated book Three Decades of Fertility visionarywomanhood.com/three-decades-of-fertility/ to preach that women are selfish for having sane limits.

...But i do have to say she recently has changed her tune a lot after admitting that she has a very difficult-to-parent daughter. (iirc, high functioning autistic or something like that, but with violent and aggressive tendencies. Very oppositional, making holes in the walls, etc.) I was actually shocked and impressed that she admitted it, and admitted putting some of her kids in away from home school. Maybe eventually the qf leaders will slow down on the guilt tripping women who limit their family size if more honest struggles like this come out.

[Mama Mia]

it is really popular and some of the higher ups have even condemned it saying women need to give up their bodies for the cause.

visionarywomanhood.com/help-pregnancy-is-making-my-body-fall-apart/

I only wish that it were cheaper, it just makes so much sense for women who are smart enough to realize when they've reached the limit of what they can handle. Birth control and Plan B are not my favorite things to put my body through. :| But i just know i can't handle more children, and life has jaded me so much that i don't believe God cares enough to limit something that would be devastating. Many fundie guys don't realize the burden that having and parenting small children puts on their wives, because they are trained to not even worry much about what goes on beyond providing.

Imo it's terrible of Natalie Klejwa and her collaborated book Three Decades of Fertility visionarywomanhood.com/three-decades-of-fertility/ to preach that women are selfish for having sane limits.

...But i do have to say she recently has changed her tune a lot after admitting that she has a very difficult-to-parent daughter. (iirc, high functioning autistic or something like that, but with violent and aggressive tendencies. Very oppositional, making holes in the walls, etc.) I was actually shocked and impressed that she admitted it, and admitted putting some of her kids in away from home school. Maybe eventually the qf leaders will slow down on the guilt tripping women who limit their family size if more honest struggles like this come out.

Just a thought, but insurance, including Medicaid, should cover sterilization for you or your partner. I believe thats a federal requirement now.

If you're low income many clinics will perform vasectomies for free or very cheap, not sure about tub als.

[Ave Maria]

I think -- depending on the agency used -- there are some interesting rules with embryo adoption. The most well known agency who facilitates it (matching genetic and adoptive families) likes to place all the genetic siblings (in this case 4) in the same family, but they make you sign a contract that you not implant them all at once. But they don't split them up either, saying 2 to this family, 2 to that one. I read up on it a bit when a friend considered it.

[2xx1xy1JD]

On the one hand I'm like "Glad at least one rabid pro-lifer is taking action instead of being all talk." On the other hand, those poor kids :(

I've generally liked and been moved by her blog in the past, precisely because she's not all talk and does genuinely take action to help children and give them the love and care that they need.

That said, this seems a bit bonkers. I honestly wish the best for her and her kids. She and her husband seem to be amazing parents, and reading Hasya's story was both horrifying (she weighed only 14 lbs at 14 years old, while in a Bulgarian orphanage) and inspiring (because she's clearly thriving, although she still has tremendous challenges, under their care). I want her to continue to be healthy, and able to do what she's doing with the kids that she has.

[momof2treasures]

I was so on board with this woman until I read about the embryo adoption. I understand her stance on unused embryos but for her to pursue this seems like having babies to make a statement. Or a point. As opposed to adopting some of the neediest orphans in the world that already exist and are suffering. She kind of lost me at that point.

[Coco]

I was so on board with this woman until I read about the embryo adoption. I understand her stance on unused embryos but for her to pursue this seems like having babies to make a statement. Or a point. As opposed to adopting some of the neediest orphans in the world that already exist and are suffering. She kind of lost me at that point.

Yeah it doesn't make sense, does it? To put herself through physical hell just to bring children into the world who almost certainly will have some issues, however slight. Why not donate the expense (surely it's going to be expensive) to children who are here now... and donate her strength to the children she's already mothering. Those little embryos may not be viable if they stay preserved, but there are kids here already who are needing attention. It's sad either way, but it doesn't make sense to give more to the ones who are just frozen cells at this point.

[Cheetah]

Yeah it doesn't make sense, does it? To put herself through physical hell just to bring children into the world who almost certainly will have some issues, however slight. Why not donate the expense (surely it's going to be expensive) to children who are here now... and donate her strength to the children she's already mothering. Those little embryos may not be viable if they stay preserved, but there are kids here already who are needing attention. It's sad either way, but it doesn't make sense to give more to the ones who are just frozen cells at this point.

One could argue that if life begins at conception and a 16-cell embryo has any sort of physical or emotional feelings, that it would be even worse after a few days of doubling... and if the chance of implantation is pretty low, you are nearly guaranteeing that this little life form will have it even worse with going for a not-very-likely pregnancy vs just getting tossed now.

[mostlylurk]

Her husband is considerably older - in his mid-fifties I think. IIRC, her previous adoptions had to be done as a "single parent" due to him being too old to adopt. I wonder if there are fewer restrictions about embryo adoption.

[chaotic life]

Adeye has 100% jumped the shark now. There is no way she can meet the needs of a pregnancy and a deliberate pregnancy of likely special needs embroyos AND the needs of her extremely high needs children at the same time. She has blogged repeatedly in the last year about how she is barely functioning, and given her refusal to ever blog about anything but unicorns farting rainbows, that she has cracked to the point of being forced to admit it is significant. She JUST got her husband back after nearly a year of living apart because they bought too many houses and couldn't get the last one sold when the doctors told her for the SECOND time that Harper could not live in the high altitude of Colorao where she *wanted* to live. Additionally, Hasya just got a cast off from yet another broken bone from brittle bone oestoporosis that the doctors told her NOTHING will cure, not even the year of good nutrition she's been hawking her MLM wares as this magic cure-all because it has saved Hasya.

I have followed Adeye's blog since her first trip to the Ukraine to adopt Harper and Hallie. Her husband was early 50s back then and unable to be a party to the international adoption. So, he's got to be mid to late 50s now. She has had to increasingly rely upon her older children to be caregivers to the special needs children she is collecting. Now she wants to collect another special needs set of kids.

Honestly, it feels like everytime her viewership on her blog starts to drop because her 'worst case scenario' adoption story has become rather mundane, she seeks to go to even greater length to outdo her last adventure with another worse case adoption. This one ranks up there with Lauren's surrogacy. It's insanity and since I'm certain that the agencies that do embroyo adoptions (versus the normal, sane donations) require a homestudy, I will blame whomever has approved their adoption homestudy just as much as I will blame her OWN insanity.

I don't care how much money the state of Colorado is paying them to take in those kids, she cannot meet the needs of more children and add pregnancy AND the completely irresponsible and unethical idea of four embroyos, which it certainly sounds like from her description they intend to thaw all together and implant.

Those poor four normal children need to just plan on having no life or future at this point. I see no evidence that Adeye intends to stop collecting and it will be those four children who will be required to care for these children for the rest of their lives. I guess they should hope they get the BlogHer income, the CO nursing hours income, and all of the free perks like the brand-new 15 passenger van and the MLM nutritional wares that everyone buys because they want to be *just* like Adeye, they were given this spring as well as those children because otherwise it will not be nearly so lucrative for them to pick up the pieces as it is for Adeye to continue what she's doing.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I can totally see her having a breakdown. I think she means well, she wants to save all the kids in the world, and she loves them very much and isn't beating them like most fundies, but she is just pushing herself too far. She is implanting four embryos, which means she is very likely to have multiples-even one baby would make things very stressful for their family, with the high levels of care her other children need, but to even think about the possibility of having quintuplets (or even twins or triplets) will just be too many for anyone to take. Multiple births can bring such joy to a family, but when there are four newborns screaming at once, waking up multiple times a night multiplied by four (when do people who have higher order multiples have time to sleep?), four babies to feed when you only have two arms (and two boobs), it puts such a strain on a family and on a person's sanity. Add that to already having 9 kids, most of which have special needs, there is no way that two people can cope with all of those kids. Especially as one of them has to work.

[tigerchild]

What strikes me about this is why, if she has such a burning desire to help frozen embryos--why not then pay for someone else who could not afford the cost of that "adoption" to be able to use them? They're still "saved", she doesn't have to take time out from her other kids, and maybe someone who finds it really important to carry a child inside them will get the opportunity they might otherwise not have had.

I have...complicated feelings about reproductive tech. But there are ways she could do this without overstressing her own family. To me that would be more admirable, than doing what she's doing and crowing about it. I really hate the savior mentality towards any kind of adoption, though.

[Savoring Samsara]

I have been thinking that this could be a great new "ministry" for aging Stay at Home Daughters whose dads just can't let go. It gives them the babies they were trained to raise, without sex rearing its ugly head. It lets Daddy expand his tribe without handing their precious daughters off to some unacceptable man. It moves the dominion further, without diluted Daddy's control. AND, it puts their money where they mouth is in their "pro life" credentials.

If you see this becoming a trend, remember you saw it here first. :dance:

There was ann episode of CSI a number of years ago that had a plot somewhat similar to this, with a very religious, virgin murder victim being pregnant with an embryo she had adopted. I want to say the sperm donor ended up being the murderer that time.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Those poor four normal children need to just plan on having no life or future at this point. I see no evidence that Adeye intends to stop collecting and it will be those four children who will be required to care for these children for the rest of their lives. I guess they should hope they get the BlogHer income, the CO nursing hours income, and all of the free perks like the brand-new 15 passenger van and the MLM nutritional wares that everyone buys because they want to be *just* like Adeye, they were given this spring as well as those children because otherwise it will not be nearly so lucrative for them to pick up the pieces as it is for Adeye to continue what she's doing.

Agreed. I foresee plenty of problems, even if the older kids are dying to self and totally God-following and adore their SN-siblings. Perhaps I am giving this too much thought, but say once the parents are out of the picture Conner decides to look after Harper and Hailee, Hannah lives with Haven, Kellan can take Kael and Cade can eventually take responsibility for Hasya. I suppose it could work if they end up with wonderful spouses who are completely on board with these additions to their relationship, don't require that they have time alone as couples and don't see difficulties if and when they want to add their own offspring to the mix. But who's left to look after the sparkling special multiple embryos??

[dianapavelovna]

Adeye has 100% jumped the shark now. There is no way she can meet the needs of a pregnancy and a deliberate pregnancy of likely special needs embroyos AND the needs of her extremely high needs children at the same time. She has blogged repeatedly in the last year about how she is barely functioning, and given her refusal to ever blog about anything but unicorns farting rainbows, that she has cracked to the point of being forced to admit it is significant. She JUST got her husband back after nearly a year of living apart because they bought too many houses and couldn't get the last one sold when the doctors told her for the SECOND time that Harper could not live in the high altitude of Colorao where she *wanted* to live. Additionally, Hasya just got a cast off from yet another broken bone from brittle bone oestoporosis that the doctors told her NOTHING will cure, not even the year of good nutrition she's been hawking her MLM wares as this magic cure-all because it has saved Hasya.

I have followed Adeye's blog since her first trip to the Ukraine to adopt Harper and Hallie. Her husband was early 50s back then and unable to be a party to the international adoption. So, he's got to be mid to late 50s now. She has had to increasingly rely upon her older children to be caregivers to the special needs children she is collecting. Now she wants to collect another special needs set of kids.

Honestly, it feels like everytime her viewership on her blog starts to drop because her 'worst case scenario' adoption story has become rather mundane, she seeks to go to even greater length to outdo her last adventure with another worse case adoption. This one ranks up there with Lauren's surrogacy. It's insanity and since I'm certain that the agencies that do embroyo adoptions (versus the normal, sane donations) require a homestudy, I will blame whomever has approved their adoption homestudy just as much as I will blame her OWN insanity.

I don't care how much money the state of Colorado is paying them to take in those kids, she cannot meet the needs of more children and add pregnancy AND the completely irresponsible and unethical idea of four embroyos, which it certainly sounds like from her description they intend to thaw all together and implant.

Those poor four normal children need to just plan on having no life or future at this point. I see no evidence that Adeye intends to stop collecting and it will be those four children who will be required to care for these children for the rest of their lives. I guess they should hope they get the BlogHer income, the CO nursing hours income, and all of the free perks like the brand-new 15 passenger van and the MLM nutritional wares that everyone buys because they want to be *just* like Adeye, they were given this spring as well as those children because otherwise it will not be nearly so lucrative for them to pick up the pieces as it is for Adeye to continue what she's doing.

PREACH, c l.

And even when she drops a bomb like this, Adeye's blog is BORING now. One or two lines of news, maybe a picture, then a bunch of tl;dr godbothering and bible verses.

Also, I missed this bit on my first scan of the post, but y'all she is SUPAH SPECIAL because she's adopting mixed-race probably special-needs embryos:

Through a series of miracles and the clear hand of the Lord who leads us onward, we are in the process of adopting four very loved, mixed race embryos. These are our babies and already we adore them as our own flesh and blood.

The clear hand of the Lord is handing me a fucking Shiner.

[chaotic life]

I do believe that Adeye starts from a motivation that she wants to rescue all of the children. But, it is precisely that motivation that can cause you to collect instead of mothering and get in WAY over your head.

Her blog is more boring now because she took her MLM stuff into a private FB group. People handed her rear on a silver platter when she started hawking her stuff on her blog. So, she moved it all to a FB group, where I have NO doubt she is making money hand over fist a la McMama on the stuff. She's touted the supplements as CURING Hasya's nutritional issues until this recent broken bone, where she admits they were told NOTHING will cure Hasya's neglect.

And yes, those four normal kids adore those special needs children. Yes, they will undoutably 100% agree to sacrifice their lives and their own futures for those kids. But, as a PP pointed out, no one of them is going to be able to take ALL of them as it is. Who is going to take the untold number of new special mixed race special needs snowflakes that Adeye is now going to carry in her own womb to rescue. Adeye is in her 40s, a multiples pregnancy is going to be exhausting. Parenting those children is already exhausting. She's subjecting herself to a very high risk pregnancy because she feels she must "rescue" all of the children in the world, and no one else is ever going to voluntarily implant this batch of embroyos if they are really old, poor quality and the two that have been birthed from the batch both have significant special needs. But, there is NO reason to be implanting FOUR of them. It's irresponsible of Adeye and her husband AND whatever pro-life quack job doctor who has agreed to oversee this adventure.

I swear, nothing I tell my headship that I read around here ever gets much response....except this. He's known this blogger's story since the Ukraine. So, I went through the highlights of the family to remind him of the story and when I got to this new stunt he not only thought I was lying, he was speechless.

When you adopt special needs children, you MUST learn your limits and you MUST learn to make the existing children in your home a priority. Otherwise, Adeye is a perfect cautionary tale of the extreme measures you will go to wreck your life, your children's lives and you STILL cannot rescue every child out there.

[Joan of Snarc]

Even though she hasn't said a lot on her blog lately except God-bothering, when she does say something the desperation is coming through. Never thought God would test us like this, bringing us to our limits, etc. The only thing I can think of is that maybe she and modelboy, deep down, hope that none of the four embryos will take. That way, they have fulfilled their calling to rescue all the babeez while not actually adding to their family. And they can tell God, "See? We tried."

:roll:

[Cheetah]

It must be really frustrating to have the view that God wants you to do a certain thing, and also that God will grant personal requests and has a minutely-detailed plan for the world and your life in specific, and then to go through a string of either bad luck or consequences of your own bad decisions that you thought weren't your own decisions but something God told you to do. I just can't imagine feeling like there's a God who is putting me through some very detailed, very conscious testing.

[nolongerIFBx]

Please enlighten me. . . Surely all forms of birth control are evil in fundie land (save maybe NFP but she must be very diligent with it to have it work for so long.)

It all depends on which branch of fundie land you inhabit. I grew up IFB extremist but I only knew/know of two families who were anti-birth control. I will say the second I have not heard them say that they are but she has had #9 and 10 in her forties so I'm just assuming. IMO, most ATI members are IFB but most IFB are not ATI members. My parents practiced birth control but still intentionally conceived 6 very wanted children. While only four of us made it to a live birth, 6 was the number of children they had wanted. Four was still considered on the large side of normal in our fundie circles.

[Elinor]

In my experience, most IFB members use birth control.

[Coco]

It must be really frustrating to have the view that God wants you to do a certain thing, and also that God will grant personal requests and has a minutely-detailed plan for the world and your life in specific, and then to go through a string of either bad luck or consequences of your own bad decisions that you thought weren't your own decisions but something God told you to do. I just can't imagine feeling like there's a God who is putting me through some very detailed, very conscious testing.

quoted for truth

she's putting way more of a burden on herself and her family than nature ever intended and calling it God's work.

In my experience living life under that burden leads to cursing God (sorry, God) because every tiny dumb thing has a meaning and she'll drive herself crazy trying to figure out the bigger purpose behind completely random events and bad things that just happen to everyone regardless of what they believe in.

[It'sFunToRun]

I think talking about how you love and adore a 16-cell thing makes your love for the real live children you know and have raised seem cheap. I also think talking about your love for children you are adopting but haven't met yet makes your love sound cheap. To me, love comes from knowing someone and appreciating them and sharing memories with them and knowing their faults and accepting them. Not from saying "oh, it's going to be mine so I love it".

[Cheetah]

I think talking about how you love and adore a 16-cell thing makes your love for the real live children you know and have raised seem cheap. I also think talking about your love for children you are adopting but haven't met yet makes your love sound cheap. To me, love comes from knowing someone and appreciating them and sharing memories with them and knowing their faults and accepting them. Not from saying "oh, it's going to be mine so I love it".

Not on topic but I just noticed your location, FunToRun... lol!

[It'sFunToRun]

Not on topic but I just noticed your location, FunToRun... lol!

Happy Atheist also likes my locations. I think she erases them sometimes just to see what I'll put up next :lol: