Victim of Gothard Pleads to Duggars Not to Follow ATI

[LongDogMom]

Radar Online recently posted an open letter to the Duggars written by Megan Lind, a former ATI follower and victim of Gothard's abuse: http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/ ... arassment/

 

In the letter she details her experience of being brought up in the same way that the Duggars are raising their girls, and says how she was actually punished when she tried to go to the Leadership of ATI to express her discomfort with his inappropriate ways of touching her. She says that ATI and the way the Duggars raise their children, especially the girls, to be completely obedient to adults and not question, sets them up to become victims of such abuse rather than providing the protection that the Duggars think they are giving their daughters.

 

I agree with her. These kids have not been taught how to say no, even if uncomfortable. They have been taught, instead, to be obedient ...even joyfully so (even if they aren't joyful inside...then they are taught that is their fault).

 

If one of these marriages turned out to be domestically violent, would these girls be able to stand up to their husbands, or get help for themselves? Would they be able to leave after they've been told that this this man is now essentially in charge and they have to be obedient to him and allow him to make all the decisions?

 

And the boys too? Would they come forward if they were the victims of sexual molestation at one of their ATI camps? Or would they be ashamed and feel as if it was somehow their fault?

 

Do you think the Duggars heard about/read this open letter?

[doggie]

Even if they read it they won't change they are right and know the truth.

[LongDogMom]

Even if they read it they won't change they are right and know the truth.

So do you think they believe Gothard molested these girls, or are they blindly loyal and choosing to disbelieve the women despite so many coming forward? Do you think they have ever questioned their own girls... I mean, if it were me and I had kids that had been interacting with this guy on a regular basis, I'd be worried about my own kids!

[utter solitude]

So do you think they believe Gothard molested these girls, or are they blindly loyal and choosing to disbelieve the women despite so many coming forward? Do you think they have ever questioned their own girls... I mean, if it were me and I had kids that had been interacting with this guy on a regular basis, I'd be worried about my own kids!

This is the explanation I once heard a die-hard Catholic man give when someone asked how he could still believe or respect the people with authority after all the sexual abuse scandals... I think this thinking applies to the Duggars:

"The men might be wrong, but the beliefs are not. I do not worship the men who preach, I worship God who gave them the words."

[LongDogMom]

utter solitude"The men might be wrong, but the beliefs are not. I do not worship the men who preach, I worship God who gave them the words."

Still, I'm not sure a lot of the Catholic people who say that would continue to send their kids to church under a priest that had numerous accusations of molestation levelled at him. It's one thing to hear about priests in the Catholic religion, but many shrug it off as one bad apple and it's not *their* priest. But with Gothard, that's exactly what it is!

I mean, isn't Jim Bob on the ATI Leadership Council or something? They had to have heard of these allegations in the past. This has been going on for a long time and yet the Duggars have continued to let their daughters be with this man. From what I understand, Jana was How do they know he hasn't touched one of their daughters inappropriately? Would their daughters feel they could even come forward if they know that their parents loyally support and even idolize the guy? If they did come forward, would the Duggars listen and believe? I mean doesn't Jana have some kind of leadership role that requires her to be at ATI headquarters or whatever quite a bit? This Gothard doesn't seem to have cared much about crossing lines with the young girls he was ministering to. I cannot imagine how confused and scared a girl raised this way would feel if something like this happened. This man, who they've been taught to virtuallay idolize, whose teachings they follow in almost all ways, doing something like this to them. I wish I could say that I feel sure that the girls would be comfortable going to their Mom and Dad if such a thing occurred, but I'm not sure they'd feel okay to do that. Thoughts?

[Sundaymorning]

utter solitude"The men might be wrong, but the beliefs are not. I do not worship the men who preach, I worship God who gave them the words."

Still, I'm not sure a lot of the Catholic people who say that would continue to send their kids to church under a priest that had numerous accusations of molestation levelled at him. It's one thing to hear about priests in the Catholic religion, but many shrug it off as one bad apple and it's not *their* priest. But with Gothard, that's exactly what it is!

I mean, isn't Jim Bob on the ATI Leadership Council or something? They had to have heard of these allegations in the past. This has been going on for a long time and yet the Duggars have continued to let their daughters be with this man. From what I understand, Jana was How do they know he hasn't touched one of their daughters inappropriately? Would their daughters feel they could even come forward if they know that their parents loyally support and even idolize the guy? If they did come forward, would the Duggars listen and believe? I mean doesn't Jana have some kind of leadership role that requires her to be at ATI headquarters or whatever quite a bit? This Gothard doesn't seem to have cared much about crossing lines with the young girls he was ministering to. I cannot imagine how confused and scared a girl raised this way would feel if something like this happened. This man, who they've been taught to virtuallay idolize, whose teachings they follow in almost all ways, doing something like this to them. I wish I could say that I feel sure that the girls would be comfortable going to their Mom and Dad if such a thing occurred, but I'm not sure they'd feel okay to do that. Thoughts?

What kind of girls did Gothard molest? Daughters of ATI royality, or girls from "lesser" families?

And well, let's face it, this whole fundie world is so hypocritical, the life motto of many fundies seems to be: don't confuse me with facts. Also, in order to be a fundie, you have to be awesome at cognitive dissonance.

These factors play into Gothards hands.

I can see Boob quietly taking measures to avoid that one of his daughters is ever left alone with Gothard in a room, but I don't think the Duggars care much about the other victims. The show must go on, and they won't let their fundiedom cripple because of some girls. They have far to much to lose at this point. So they will deny everything and sweep it under the rug as long as they can. Same goes for other families of the ATI royality. Calling Gothard out would damage their own position and reputation, as they would have to publicly admit that they served a sexual predator for years.

[doggie]

So do you think they believe Gothard molested these girls, or are they blindly loyal and choosing to disbelieve the women despite so many coming forward? Do you think they have ever questioned their own girls... I mean, if it were me and I had kids that had been interacting with this guy on a regular basis, I'd be worried about my own kids!

they blindly follow. I mean they had already blindly followed him why would that change. Just look at all the pastors and church leaders who have either been blindly defended or forgiven and welcomed back. Faith brings on the ultimate blindness. I mean they did not stop sending their kids so they have proven they need a white cane very badly.

[utter solitude]

utter solitude"The men might be wrong, but the beliefs are not. I do not worship the men who preach, I worship God who gave them the words."

Still, I'm not sure a lot of the Catholic people who say that would continue to send their kids to church under a priest that had numerous accusations of molestation levelled at him. It's one thing to hear about priests in the Catholic religion, but many shrug it off as one bad apple and it's not *their* priest. But with Gothard, that's exactly what it is!

I mean, isn't Jim Bob on the ATI Leadership Council or something? They had to have heard of these allegations in the past. This has been going on for a long time and yet the Duggars have continued to let their daughters be with this man. From what I understand, Jana was How do they know he hasn't touched one of their daughters inappropriately? Would their daughters feel they could even come forward if they know that their parents loyally support and even idolize the guy? If they did come forward, would the Duggars listen and believe? I mean doesn't Jana have some kind of leadership role that requires her to be at ATI headquarters or whatever quite a bit? This Gothard doesn't seem to have cared much about crossing lines with the young girls he was ministering to. I cannot imagine how confused and scared a girl raised this way would feel if something like this happened. This man, who they've been taught to virtuallay idolize, whose teachings they follow in almost all ways, doing something like this to them. I wish I could say that I feel sure that the girls would be comfortable going to their Mom and Dad if such a thing occurred, but I'm not sure they'd feel okay to do that. Thoughts?

You raise an awful lot of excellent points here. :)

My point with my quote was that, the Duggars may hate what Gothard has done, but still follow some of the teachings of his group. I really know nothing of their involvement with ATI, tho. It's always seemed to me like they don't follow all of their teachings, just the ones that suit them. I think they will continue to do so, just as I have seen Catholics decry the priests and others involved in the scandals but continue going to mass.

DO the Duggars have direct contact with ATI uppers? They've never struck me as the kind of people who would follow one person blindly - Jim Boob is much too egotistical for that. Going to a conference isn't exactly the same as blindly following the words of one man. Since I don't know much about their ATI involvement, I can't speak to that.

I will say that, in cases of cults and cult-like situations, when the girls are raped and molested, it messes them up moreso than in other circumstances. They are often told, by their own families! that they are in the wrong. That kind of thinking fucks people up.

[doggie]

My point with my quote was that, the Duggars may hate what Gothard has done, but still follow some of the teachings of his group. I really know nothing of their involvement with ATI, tho. It's always seemed to me like they don't follow all of their teachings, just the ones that suit them. I think they will continue to do so, just as I have seen Catholics decry the priests and others involved in the scandals but continue going to mass.

well that describes every christian but they followed his hair choice makeup choice clothing choice wife submission choice child education choice

[utter solitude]

well that describes every christian but they followed his hair choice makeup choice clothing choice wife submission choice child education choice

But are all of those things unique to Gothard? ATI isn't the only group that preaches submission, home schooling, or women wearing frumpy clothing.

I'll have to delve into what I can find about the Duggars and ATI, cuz I really know zero about it and don't want to put my foot in my mouth XD

[doggie]

Well yes but curly hair and makeup the way gothard liked it? The horrible education books education on bankrupt their volunteering for firefighters and do many things.

[Toothfairy]

The Duggars don't care. If one of their kids were being abused and they told him they would just pray it away and leave it alone

[doggie]

The Duggars don't care. If one of their kids were being abused and they told him they would just pray it away and leave it alone

and or blame the girl.

[LongDogMom]

What kind of girls did Gothard molest? Daughters of ATI royality, or girls from "lesser" families? And well, let's face it, this whole fundie world is so hypocritical, the life motto of many fundies seems to be: don't confuse me with facts. Also, in order to be a fundie, you have to be awesome at cognitive dissonance.

These factors play into Gothards hands.

I can see Boob quietly taking measures to avoid that one of his daughters is ever left alone with Gothard in a room, but I don't think the Duggars care much about the other victims. The show must go on, and they won't let their fundiedom cripple because of some girls. They have far to much to lose at this point. So they will deny everything and sweep it under the rug as long as they can. Same goes for other families of the ATI royality. Calling Gothard out would damage their own position and reputation, as they would have to publicly admit that they served a sexual predator for years.

That's a good question about what kind of girls did he molest (ATI royalty or ATI "lessser" families girls)? I wonder.

Your post made me wonder if the Duggars are biding their time and secretly planning to replace Gothard and ATI with their own Fundy-stuff. Can't you see Jim Bob and Michelle starting their own Fundy Empire with a Duggar ATI-like camp and expanding their church, putting out Duggar homeschooling stuff, and so on. That would be like a goldmine and they could put the kids to work making it all happen now that they are older. Probably all those ATI-followers who are disillusioned with Gothard would be willing followers.

[Four is Enough]

I hate to think this, but perhaps Jana WAS touched by GotHard.. and is now a "soiled dove", unable to ever be free of her "sin"... because in their twisted thinking, the fault is hers.. so she bears the burden of being molested, not having any treatment for her pain and suffering, and the punishment of being her parents' slave for the rest of her life. I know NOTHING of her circumstances. This is mere speculation, but I've wondered about Jana..

[LongDogMom]

I hate to think this, but perhaps Jana WAS touched by GotHard.. and is now a "soiled dove", unable to ever be free of her "sin"... because in their twisted thinking, the fault is hers.. so she bears the burden of being molested, not having any treatment for her pain and suffering, and the punishment of being her parents' slave for the rest of her life. I know NOTHING of her circumstances. This is mere speculation, but I've wondered about Jana..

I wondered the same because she seems so sad and somewhat withdrawn, but I doubt we would ever know. If it came out she had been molested by Gothard, I would not be surprised. I'm not sure she would even go to her parents knowing how in denial they are about Gothard and the other allegations, plus she might feel like somehow it's her fault, like maybe she brought it on to herself by the way she was dressed or acted. That is sort of what JB&M have taught them... not that men need to learn self-control but that women provoke that lust in men and therefore they shoulder that responsibility.

[HarleyQuinn]

I hate to think this, but perhaps Jana WAS touched by GotHard.. and is now a "soiled dove", unable to ever be free of her "sin"... because in their twisted thinking, the fault is hers.. so she bears the burden of being molested, not having any treatment for her pain and suffering, and the punishment of being her parents' slave for the rest of her life. I know NOTHING of her circumstances. This is mere speculation, but I've wondered about Jana..

Thinking about that just makes me so sad.

[mastercleaner]

Jana has been staying with Josh and Anna for a little while.

I was thinking that maybe they were trying to keep her in the fold, like they tried with Suzanna.

[Browneyed Girl]

Thinking about that just makes me so sad.

Thinking about that doesn't make me sad (well it does for Jana) it does makes me want to break a commandment or two.

[FloraKitty35]

and or blame the girl.

exactly

[formergothardite]

So do you think they believe Gothard molested these girls, or are they blindly loyal and choosing to disbelieve the women despite so many coming forward? Do you think they have ever questioned their own girls... I mean, if it were me and I had kids that had been interacting with this guy on a regular basis, I'd be worried about my own kids!

I have heard from ATI supporters and most of them either believe these things are completely made up or that even if he did do these things he did them in innocence and he will stop. It is hard to understand the blind obedience people have to him. Jim Bob and Michelle are regular speakers at ATI so they have interacted with Gothard a great deal. Despite Gothard stepping down, I have no doubt that he is still heavily involved and so are the Duggars. They could either not believe the stories or be like the one Gothardite who comments on RG who saw Gothard ignore over his less pretty daughter and choose the prettier one but explained it away as "Well you know how guys are. They like pretty, young girls. But he would never cross a line with them." I could see Jim Bob having that sort of an attitude.

[FloraKitty35]

I have heard from ATI supporters and most of them either believe these things are completely made up or that even if he did do these things he did them in innocence and he will stop. It is hard to understand the blind obedience people have to him. Jim Bob and Michelle are regular speakers at ATI so they have interacted with Gothard a great deal. Despite Gothard stepping down, I have no doubt that he is still heavily involved and so are the Duggars. They could either not believe the stories or be like the one Gothardite who comments on RG who saw Gothard ignore over his less pretty daughter and choose the prettier one but explained it away as "Well you know how guys are. They like pretty, young girls. But he would never cross a line with them." I could see Jim Bob having that sort of an attitude.

Dim Bulb and Mullet would just blame the victim even if it happened to be one of their own daughters.

[Toothfairy]

Dim Bulb and Mullet would just blame the victim even if it happened to be one of their own daughters.

and that's really sad. What I'd god forbid michelle was raped? Would she blame herself? How can a woman be blamed for a man's actions? It's his fault that he abused girls not theirs. So for the rest of life the victim is going to be hurting and torn inside thinking that's it's their fault. They're so disgusting.

[Phoenix]

So do you think they believe Gothard molested these girls, or are they blindly loyal and choosing to disbelieve the women despite so many coming forward? Do you think they have ever questioned their own girls... I mean, if it were me and I had kids that had been interacting with this guy on a regular basis, I'd be worried about my own kids!

I agree, in a semi-sane world view lots of questions would be asked of potentially vulnerable girls once a molester was was identified. In the cases I am personally aware of, the girls in families shattered by molestation were closely and repeatedly questioned and monitored for a long time after all the ugliness came to light. In all cases the abused girls got lots of counseling.

Duggar girls would get no such help if Gothard ever touched one of them. I think they would be treated in a similar manner to how Warren Jeff's victims were. First threatened if they told, then not believed or thrown out of the cult if they wouldn't recant their story. :sick:

So I dearly hope for their sake, none of the Duggar girls were molested by G-tard or anyone else. It is bad enough they are going to be lifetime slaves of their own biology turned against them in the name of religion. :disgust: