I sat through 2 hours of Natural Family Planning Class...

[Mela99]

I meant to post this so long ago. But before the headship and I were wed, we had to sit through a two hour Catholic sponsored NFP class...

I alternated between taking notes and biting my cheek till it was bloody to keep from screaming BULLSHIT at the lady teaching it.

There was a series of photos teaching how to test and feel

your cervical mucus. No amount of eye bleach will ever wash that away for me.

Pills and birth control are the sole contributor of

increasing divorce rates. People who practice NFP have a less than .03% of

getting divorced.

It’s biologically impossible to get pregnant outside of a 10

hour period each month.

Once you ovulate, you have zero chance of getting pregnant.

Having sex during your period gives you endometriosis. But

you can’t get pregnant on your period.

Doctors only give out the pill for cramps because they don’t

know what else to do.

Your husband will feel more like a man if you let him chart

your menstrual cycle, and you will feel like a queen. It’s a MAN’S

responsibility to help the woman control her cycle. She won’t remember if you

don’t do it for her!

“NFP was very effective for me! I only had one surprise

pregnancy!â€

“NFP takes away the strings and pressures of sex in a

marriage.†(Mela’s thought: if you think sex comes with strings and

pressure, you married an asshole)

“Since we use NFP, our daughter gets two birthday parties!

We celebrate her conception date!â€

“The pill is abortive. It keeps live babies from being able

to attach to mommy’s uterus.â€

[16strong]

Which textbook published in 1875 did they use?

[Mama Mia]

Wow :pink-shock: that sounds like the instructor was deliberately trying to sabotage any attempts at actually spacing children. You can't get pregnant after you ovulate??????? :liar:

Do you think your parish actually expects women to only use NFP? Or is taking the class seems as more of a formality and they are aware most couples will use a range of birth control methods?

[ILoveJellybeans]

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!! Whyyyyyyy are they celebrating their child's conception date??? How do you celebrate your conception day? "Happy anniversary of your parents fucking to create you! Lets make some vagina cupcakes and play pin the sperm on the egg"

[susykt4]

I used charting temps, etc. as a way to maximize my chances of getting pregnant following miscarriage and some known fertility issues. My doc wanted me to take (ugh, can't think what it's called but a very common fertility drug) and I didn't want any increased risk of multiples. Charting worked for my reasons, but I can't imagine using it as birth control! I was extremely dedicated to my cause but don't really see a 17-yr-old girl taking the time to fully understand how to use this method effectively- much less not having sex for a few specific days a month.

It sort of blows my mind that Catholic kids will (duh, of course!) have sex but are so programmed against birth control. This isn't limited to the fundies, but seems to include the barely practicing Catholics. I get forcing a class on the engaged before they are married in the church, but what about the high schoolers? Is NFP taught in Catholic school or is it assumed there will be no sex until marriage? I was brought up fundie (not Catholic) and it would have been SHAMEFUL if I had gotten pregnant before marriage. It was completely assumed I would not have sex. It seems like the Catholic attitude toward unexpected pre-marital pregnancy is tee hee, whoops :)

It totally cracks me up that the teacher of the class bragged she only had one unexpected pregnancy!

[It'sFunToRun]

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!! Whyyyyyyy are they celebrating their child's conception date??? How do you celebrate your conception day? "Happy anniversary of your parents fucking to create you! Lets make some vagina cupcakes and play pin the sperm on the egg"

I always thought that pro-life people should add 9 months on to their age.

[Marianne]

I have google cervical mucus in google image. NEVER DO THAT. Urg.

[RachelB]

I meant to post this so long ago. But before the headship and I were wed, we had to sit through a two hour Catholic sponsored NFP class...

Having sex during your period gives you endometriosis. But you can’t get pregnant on your period.

False AND false!

Having sex during your period is awesome, if you are both into it. If having sex during your period gave you endometriosis, no one would ever suffer from endo prior to having sex. That is not the case.

And if NFP has any usefulness at all, it's in establishing that bodies are different and that blanket statements don't work. While it might be comparatively rare to be fertile during your period, some people are.

[louisa05]

We only had to sit through a 45 minute NFP session for our premarital requirements. It was conducted by an OB/GYN and an R.N. Nothing wacky or stupid or untrue. And no graphic discussion of mucus or any such thing. If you wanted to learn to use NFP, you could sign up for a longer, multiple session workshop led by the same two women. Honestly, no one seemed to be paying much attention during the NFP section of the day, and I didn't see anyone signing up for the workshops. And there was no pressure, either. They seemed to know that it was a hard sell.

I taught in a Catholic school for ten years. Students were given a general over view of the church's teaching on contraception in senior theology class. That was it. They were not by any means "programmed against birth control". Considering that most of the teaching staff had only a few kids (3 being the most and all well spaced) and most of the kids only had 1 or 2 siblings, I highly doubt that everyone was using NFP. Remember something like 90% of Catholic women have used birth control in their lives. Since teens also like to talk as if teachers are not in the room, it was also pretty clear that the majority of our students were aware of birth control.

With the whole health insurance issue and the Hobby Lobby case, I know it is easy to believe that the entire population of Catholics is crazy about NFP and having families of twelve. But it just isn't so in reality in the pews, at least not in the U.S. And the really fascinating thing to me is the women who love to preach about NFP and the evils of birth control in my parish (there are three who are very loud about it) basically had a conversion experience in which they gave up birth control when they were in their mid-40s. And the majority of the younger women look at them as if to say "well, how convenient".

[It'sFunToRun]

If I went to a NFP seminar because I actually planned on using NFP, then I'd want to see mucus pictures in their full glory so that I would know what I was looking for. "A little thicker" and "a little cloudy" wouldn't cut it for me.

[dawbs]

I have google cervical mucus in google image. NEVER DO THAT. Urg.

I haven't sifted through the site since it expanded/updated/modernized, but www.beautifulcervix.com/ was interesting back when I was TTC.

(And I know it's far from universal, but theh #1 reason I would never, EVER use NFP to prevent pregnancy is that beyond a shadow of a doubt, my sexual desire moves with my cycle--so basically it boils down to "hey, the days when you most want to have sex, don't have it or you'll get pregnant--but the rest of the month, have lots of sex, because your husband wants it" (not that I don't want it the rest of the month, but the amount varies considerably)

Although, FWIW, NFP type info was actually useful when we decided to have kids

Although if it were *really* useful my daughter would be 2+ years older than she is ;)

[nausicaa]

I always thought that pro-life people should add 9 months on to their age.

I remember hearing a story a decade ago about a 20 year old who was going to be charged with underage drinking. He was in a conservative state that had recently limited access to abortion, adding some phrasing to its laws about "life begins at conception." He used this to add nine months to his current age, which would make him 21 and therefore of legal age to consume alcohol. It could be apocryphal, but if it's true, you gotta give that kids points for ingenuity. And if it's true, I bet he's a corporate lawyer somewhere making bank.

[utter solitude]

It just dawned on me that my exfinace's family, (his parents are die-hard, extremeist Catholics) must have attended a class like this and taken it to heart! Seriously! They're big believers in "you only have sex to procreate" and I'm pretty sure they've had sex about twice - once for each of the children.

They sleep in separate rooms, and have for the entirety of exfiance's life... and he has zero recollections of either coming out of the other's room in a way indicating a tryst.

Now it all makes sense!

[Feberin]

I don't think most Catholics follow it. My mom's family is all Catholic and she was one of seven but nobody has more then three children. I've been to a lot of different churches since we tend to go to church with my in-laws or other relatives plus we've had trouble finding one we liked for us. And I almost never see any large families at church. Typically there is like one family with four or five kids in the whole church. My very Catholic in-laws (my MIL attends church every day of the week) had five children (one was adopted though) and after the fifth one my FIL had a vasectomy.

Although we're not actually believers my husband and I got married in the church and had to attend an engagement retreat before we got married. We actually were shocked that we really enjoyed it since it was mostly listening to two married couples talk then we were given time to talk to each other. It actually gave us time to talk about important things like finances, splitting holidays amongst two families and how we wished to raise our kids. They brought up things we honestly hadn't thought about yet but were very important to discuss. And there was very little related to religion. We did have them talk about NFP. However they weren't graphic and it was a bit of a joke. One of the married couples were infertile (they'd been trying to have a baby for like five years) so naturally NFP worked great for them for their first few years that they were married and trying to avoid children. The other couple didn't practice NFP until the wife got pregnant after their birth control failed and it convinced them that all children are blessings or something. But it was like their fourth child and they were already like in their forties (I remember they said their other kids were in college and high school at the time).

My husband somehow got in his mind that NFP sounded great! And they gave us a CD all about NFP and we listened to it for like five minutes before turning it off and deciding that we were definitely not using NFP. The CD was very preachy and lots of scripture and birth control is evil.

[Rebelwife]

I used charting temps, etc. as a way to maximize my chances of getting pregnant following miscarriage and some known fertility issues. My doc wanted me to take (ugh, can't think what it's called but a very common fertility drug) and I didn't want any increased risk of multiples. Charting worked for my reasons, but I can't imagine using it as birth control! I was extremely dedicated to my cause but don't really see a 17-yr-old girl taking the time to fully understand how to use this method effectively- much less not having sex for a few specific days a month.

It sort of blows my mind that Catholic kids will (duh, of course!) have sex but are so programmed against birth control. This isn't limited to the fundies, but seems to include the barely practicing Catholics. I get forcing a class on the engaged before they are married in the church, but what about the high schoolers? Is NFP taught in Catholic school or is it assumed there will be no sex until marriage? I was brought up fundie (not Catholic) and it would have been SHAMEFUL if I had gotten pregnant before marriage. It was completely assumed I would not have sex. It seems like the Catholic attitude toward unexpected pre-marital pregnancy is tee hee, whoops :)

It totally cracks me up that the teacher of the class bragged she only had one unexpected pregnancy!

I used FAM (fertility awareness method, which I prefer over the term NFP) both as birth control and when we were trying to conceive our two children. Hormonal birth control did a number on my depression and libido and it was the best option for us. However, I'm not squeamish about my body at all and we didn't abstain during fertile times - we just used condoms. It took some effort in the beginning, but after a couple of months it was totally routine and took less than 1 minute each morning. You do have to be committed, though. It's not a form of BC you can do every once in a while. My husband did have a vasectomy when my youngest was still a baby, so I haven't used it in a very long time.

I would NEVER recommend it as birth control for anyone who wasn't in a committed, monogamous relationship though - especially a teenager. My girls have had it drummed into them that one form of birth control is never enough. There needs to be a condom *always* along with the second contraceptive of their choice.

[keen23]

I'm a horrible candidate for NFP. My cycle is never regular- I go anywhere between 27 days and 67 days between periods, but the average is close to 40 days. I never can tell when I'm ovulating. My OBGYN was amazed that I was able to get pregnant 3 times without any problems. We just lucked out.

This NFP teacher sounds like she's related to the woman who taught my childbirth class with my first. The teacher told us time and time again that epidurals should be avoided because there's a high chance that we'd be paralyzed for the rest of our life (And that we should all learn the Bradley Method). I complained to the hospital and told them what she was saying.

[Rebelwife]

I'm a horrible candidate for NFP. My cycle is never regular- I go anywhere between 27 days and 67 days between periods, but the average is close to 40 days. I never can tell when I'm ovulating. My OBGYN was amazed that I was able to get pregnant 3 times without any problems. We just lucked out.

This NFP teacher sounds like she's related to the woman who taught my childbirth class with my first. The teacher told us time and time again that epidurals should be avoided because there's a high chance that we'd be paralyzed for the rest of our life (And that we should all learn the Bradley Method). I complained to the hospital and told them what she was saying.

Actually, if you were interested*, you'd be a GREAT candidate. One of the myths of FAM/NFP is that you rely on a calendar in some way. Actually, one of the main principals (if it is done right) is that you have to go into every cycle assuming it will be completely different from any you've ever had before. Most women do settle into a general rhythm, but even the most regular person out there can have a fluke cycle at any time. I also had irregular cycles and I loved it because I always had a head's up that my period was coming. Sometimes my cycle might be 5 weeks, sometimes 10 and everything in between, but I always knew I'd start my period about 13 days after I ovulated, whenever that might be. (Most women have a consistent post-ovulatory phase, even if their pre-ovulatory phase is inconsistent.

*Of course I'm not saying it's something *you* should do. I just wouldn't want someone reading this who had irregular cycles like I did to think they couldn't use FAM.

[keen23]

Actually, if you were interested*, you'd be a GREAT candidate. One of the myths of FAM/NFP is that you rely on a calendar in some way. Actually, one of the main principals (if it is done right) is that you have to go into every cycle assuming it will be completely different from any you've ever had before. Most women do settle into a general rhythm, but even the most regular person out there can have a fluke cycle at any time. I also had irregular cycles and I loved it because I always had a head's up that my period was coming. Sometimes my cycle might be 5 weeks, sometimes 10 and everything in between, but I always knew I'd start my period about 13 days after I ovulated, whenever that might be. (Most women have a consistent post-ovulatory phase, even if their pre-ovulatory phase is inconsistent.

*Of course I'm not saying it's something *you* should do. I just wouldn't want someone reading this who had irregular cycles like I did to think they couldn't use FAM.

At this point in my left, I depend on the miracles of modern medicine- the copper IUD. No hormones, no babies everyone wins.

[Rebelwife]

At this point in my left, I depend on the miracles of modern medicine- the copper IUD. No hormones, no babies everyone wins.

I feel ya! Not only has the headship had a vasectomy, I've had a hysterectomy as well. When my younger daughter told me she thought I should have another baby, I told her that not only was the factory closed, it had been dismantled and sold for parts. :lol:

[Mama Mia]

I know many women who are very, very devout Catholics, many of whom have large families by today's standards - but by large I mean 4 or 5 kids. They ALL have used a variety of birth control methods. The women I know who have more than 2 kids it's almost invariably due to failure of a conventional birth control method, a new partner, or an " oops, I REALLY need to not get drunk and not bother with birth control". I think they tend to wind up with larger families because most of them had children young and aren't ready to do something permanent like sterilization in their twenties. And I think, at least in the people I know, there is pretty much an attitude of an un-planned baby is still going to be a baby to love and the logistics and money will figure themselves out.

The women I know who use the FAM are usually women who have had a hard time getting pregnant and originally use it to help conceive and continue afterwards to use it as birth control. Very few of them Catholic. Or women who have a hard time with hormonal birth control.

[nausicaa]

Yeah, I have to say I'm surprised at the church still pushing NFP like this.

I grew up Catholic, attending a very middle of the road RC church. It wasn't traditionalist, but it certainly wasn't progressive either. Lots more Dole than Clinton bumper stickers, kwim? The largest family I can think of had four kids, spaced out over more than ten years. The overwhelming majority (75%-80%) of families had two kids.

I never, ever saw one of these Quiverful style families, and they would have definitely have stood out. To me it seems NFP is making a comeback with the younger generation, because I don't think I ever heard that term growing up, and our grumpy older priest never once gave a sermon on it, despite regaling us about the evils of abortion, premarital sex, and popular media many times.

[Katie_Bug]

I don't think most Catholics follow it. My mom's family is all Catholic and she was one of seven but nobody has more then three children. I've been to a lot of different churches since we tend to go to church with my in-laws or other relatives plus we've had trouble finding one we liked for us. And I almost never see any large families at church. Typically there is like one family with four or five kids in the whole church. My very Catholic in-laws (my MIL attends church every day of the week) had five children (one was adopted though) and after the fifth one my FIL had a vasectomy.

I went to Catholic school from K-12 and only one family in the entire elementary school (K-8) had more than 3 kids. They had 5 kids which was considered to be VERY large.

In 12th grade we had a “Religion†class called Catholic Families or something like that where we learned about everything from dating to post-marriage finances. We even learned about BC :o We did not learn that NFP was the end all be all though. Instead, our teacher said it didn’t really work very well. (although he was required to explain it to us) He also went over the likelihood of the different bc options working and as another poster pointed out that it is best to use 2 if you are trying to prevent pregnancy. Of course, this was for after we were married and he explained that the only way to guarantee no pregnancy was to abstain from sex altogether…

[Mela99]

The funny thing is, my parish doesn't offer this class themselves or really push it on anybody. Birth control, abortion, politics - they stay away from all of that and focus on community. It's not required if you and your intended are both Catholics and church members, but since DH was not baptized or had any interest in joining the church we had to jump through the hoops. The Diocese would not grant a dispensation unless we did all those classes.

I'm a practicing Catholic but insanely left wing and liberal. The major reason for my desire to be married in the Catholic church was because my grandmother had died before we married. She was a devout Catholic and I know it is what she would have wanted. I wouldn't have made DH jump through the hoops for just me, but I would do it all for her.

[DarkAnts]

NPF can be helpful but not a full proof form of family planing. I know the Mormon church is allowing members to be on birth control (hush hush). Their attitude is that you should be able to space your children out so the mother can recover and so the family can be financially healthy. This may not be true of all more onwards but it's true for my relatives. I think the shift is a response to the increased use of antidepressant meds but it's a step in the right direction.

Parents should only have as many children that they can support emotionally and financially.

[RandomTrivia]

I'm a horrible candidate for NFP. My cycle is never regular- I go anywhere between 27 days and 67 days between periods, but the average is close to 40 days. I never can tell when I'm ovulating. My OBGYN was amazed that I was able to get pregnant 3 times without any problems. We just lucked out.

I was the same way for years, although things have stabilized a lot in the last couple of years. Oddly enough, getting pregnant didn't take long at all (like, one instance both times - which leads me to believe I'm also in the "amorous=ovulating" camp). Even if you don't want to try NFP, there's a book called Taking Charge of Your Fertility that was very informative when I read it a few years ago. I had a couple of "aha" moments, when something in the book explained some weird little thing or other that I had noticed over the years.

As far as NFP, oy. Husband's family is Catholic, he's one of 6 kids. The week before our wedding, at a family dinner, his sister-in-law (wife of brother #3) offered up the fact that she and brother-in-law were teaching a NFP class for the church, and we were welcome to take it. I believe she asked what form of birth control we'd be using after the wedding, as a segue into the NFP discussion. I'm not 100% sure on that, the TMI may have short-circuited a few of my brain cells. They have 4 kids, and she openly said, over dinner, that Kid #2 was an "oops" baby. The Oops in question was sitting at the table, and would have been about 5 or 6 at the time. I was stuck between WTF, TMI and "None of your business," and even then I knew that the last people I'd be discussing our sex life with would be my in-laws and I sure as hell wouldn't take any NFP class from them. It was an unusual dinner conversation all around; the other main topic was something regarding G.W. Bush and Roe vs. Wade.

That sister-in-law has always been a bit of a bitch, though.