Are the Duggars perfect after all??

[freejoyannatoo]

I've noticed that, as soon as anyone here speculates on the Duggars, or anybody in their show, being other than "normal", other posters rush in to deny the possibility of what's being suggested.

 

Let's face facts. With that many people on the show, some of them ARE gay. It's simple statistics. So what?

 

On the same basis, a couple of them will have an IQ that is below the normal level. One of the benefits of fundie-land for those people is that it is very inclusive of anyone with a learning disability. They are never going to rock the boat, are they?

 

Eating disorders are rife in society, especially among young women who are in the media. Michelle has made a thing of dieting - she's been to Weight Watchers. The older girls, who as part of the "chosen" family are also role-models for other young women of course have clearly all lost weight in the last few years. There's a massive contradict here - on the one hand, a young woman has no business being self-critical because God made her the way she is. On the other, she has to be thin and beautiful to attract a mate. Cognitive dissonance, anyone?

 

On the basis of all this, it seems to me more likely than not that at least one of the older Duggar girls has developed an eating disorder. Indeed I would be surprised if it were not the case, given these pressures.

 

Do the deniers here have some kind of unconscious desire for the Duggar image to be true after all? There really is an Easter Bunny, Santa really brings the little children all those presents - and the Duggars really are as perfect as their show makes them seem?

[alba]

It's in the TOU that we don't speculate on the sexuality of minors in fundiedom, because we know people like Josh Duggar read here and it's not fair to those kids if their family members read they might be gay and take it out on them. For the same reason, adult children living under their parents' roofs are kind of a grey area. Besides, it's not like being straight is somehow more perfect than being gay or asexual.

As for the eating disorders thing, that's not fundie-specific. Women in the public eye are constantly being critiqued over their bodies, one woman's too fat and needs to stop eating, another's too skinny and should eat a sandwich. I read a really interesting article recently talking about how Jennifer Lawrence appears to be rebelling against the skinny Hollywood system, but at the same time, the only reason she's not lambasted for saying she eats burgers and Philly steak sandwiches is because she's still thin, while Melissa McCarthy instead "has" to talk about how she eats homemade vegetable soup, because otherwise she's setting a "bad example".

Speculating that someone has an eating disorder based on her appearance is just an extension of this treatment of women's bodies as public property. Personally, I've tried to be very careful in recent threads to focus on what people have said and done rather than changes in their appearance, which could be down to not eating TTC or stress or any number of things.

[freejoyannatoo]

]It's in the TOU that we don't speculate on the sexuality of minors in fundiedom, because we know people like Josh Duggar read here and it's not fair to those kids if their family members read they might be gay and take it out on them. For the same reason, adult children living under their parents' roofs are kind of a grey area. Besides, it's not like being straight is somehow more perfect than being gay or asexual.

As for the eating disorders thing, that's not fundie-specific. Women in the public eye are constantly being critiqued over their bodies, one woman's too fat and needs to stop eating, another's too skinny and should eat a sandwich. I read a really interesting article recently talking about how Jennifer Lawrence appears to be rebelling against the skinny Hollywood system, but at the same time, the only reason she's not lambasted for saying she eats burgers and Philly steak sandwiches is because she's still thin, while Melissa McCarthy instead "has" to talk about how she eats homemade vegetable soup, because otherwise she's setting a "bad example".

Speculating that someone has an eating disorder based on her appearance is just an extension of this treatment of women's bodies as public property. Personally, I've tried to be very careful in recent threads to focus on what people have said and done rather than changes in their appearance, which could be down to not eating TTC or stress or any number of things.

I absolutely agree with this. It's not right to suggest that any particular person is gay if they don't publicly identify as such (I have not done so) and of course we shouldn't speculate on the sexuality of the children. However, my point remains - some of them are gay. That's life. And of course in the Duggar's philosophy, being straight IS more perfect than any other form of sexuality. That's WRONG.

Similarly, I guess there's an argument for not speculating about if an individual has an eating disorder. I have respect for posters who say "we shouldn't be discussing eating disorders in relation to specific people". What I don't get is, "No of course person X doesn't have an eating disorder, she's just naturally thin".

Actually though, I think it might be a good thing that we are discussing eating disorders, if Josh (and maybe now Jill) do read what we post. It might alert them to what may be a health problem in their family, that isn't understood or acknowledged by their parents, and that they may otherwise have been unaware of. If we did happen to achieve that then it could be very worthwhile imo.

[freejoyannatoo]

I absolutely agree with this. It's not right to suggest that any particular person is gay if they don't publicly identify as such (I have not done so) and of course we shouldn't speculate on the sexuality of the children. However, my point remains - some of them are gay. That's life. And of course in the Duggar's philosophy, being straight IS more perfect than any other form of sexuality. That's WRONG.

Similarly, I guess there's an argument for not speculating about if an individual has an eating disorder. I have respect for posters who say "we shouldn't be discussing eating disorders in relation to specific people". What I don't get is, "No of course person X doesn't have an eating disorder, she's just naturally thin".

Actually though, I think it might be a good thing that we are discussing eating disorders, if Josh (and maybe now Jill) do read what we post. It might alert them to what may be a health problem in their family, that isn't understood or acknowledged by their parents, and that they may otherwise have been unaware of. If we did happen to achieve that then it could be very worthwhile imo.

By the way, plenty of boys are anorexic. I don't see it as an issue about women's bodies per se, I see it as a health problem. In the Duggar's case I guess the girls are more likely to suffer because their belief system puts so much more emphasis on what women look like, than on the men's appearance. Also it relates to lack of control and the girls suffer more from that. But they are all under pressure to appear perfect, and it would be quite possible for one or more of the boys to develop an eating disorder.

[JHeathen]

I think people may just be pulling others back down to reality, not necessarily "defending" the Duggars. Jinger looks very thin in a selfie on instagram, therefore she has an eating disorder? Josie has had therapy, appears in the background playing, and speaks one line, therefore she is developmentally delayed? Anna wears a baggy shirt that blows up in the breeze, therefore she is hiding a pregnancy? People may just be reaching. Sounds like a bunch of tabloid headlines.

Cameras are not in the house 24/7...we see a carefully presented, admittedly scripted, TLC-cut-and-pasted TWELVE MINUTES per week, for 30 weeks? of their lives each year. Some people's speculations go a bit far.

[It'sFunToRun]

I know that I've said that Jinger has always been thin, and that's not me claiming that the Duggars or perfect or that a Duggar would never get an eating disorder. I just don't think it should be surprising that Jinger is thinner than her sisters now, when she was also thinner than them as a kid. I can show you pictures from over five years ago where she was looking very thin.

If you don't think we don't speculate on fundies being gay, you haven't been paying attention. There is one certain Waller for whom the word "gay" is as attatched to his name as Jim Bob's tongue is to Michelle's mouth.

[Evilbad]

I think people may just be pulling others back down to reality, not necessarily "defending" the Duggars. Jinger looks very thin in a selfie on instagram, therefore she has an eating disorder? Josie has had therapy, appears in the background playing, and speaks one line, therefore she is developmentally delayed? Anna wears a baggy shirt that blows up in the breeze, therefore she is hiding a pregnancy? People may just be reaching. Sounds like a bunch of tabloid headlines.

Cameras are not in the house 24/7...we see a carefully presented, admittedly scripted, TLC-cut-and-pasted TWELVE MINUTES per week, for 30 weeks? of their lives each year. Some people's speculations go a bit far.

Josiah and the arm twist. And on and on.

[Rescinded and Mended]

One thing that I've found troubling in recent episodes is exactly how much emphasis is being placed on the oldest four daughters with regard to courtships, marriage and the way they look on camera. Doesn't seem like a lot of the focus is being placed on any of the boys and men in the family right now, or on any of the younger girls. Imagine how nerve-wracking that must be for them in terms of body image. I could see how the pressure to remain thin on camera and for weddings might cause some issues with food, even more so than usual.

[chissprincess]

I think for me, with the eating disorders thing, it would come down to my belief that it's not appropriate or good to try to guess someone's eating habits (or problems they may have surrounding eating, including eating disorders) from how they look.

And as for this:

With that many people on the show, some of them ARE gay. It's simple statistics. So what?

Just because statistically speaking 10% or so of people are gay doesn't mean that every group of 10+ people is going to have any gay people in it. I mean, there are plenty of families out there with only 1-2 kids and one kid turns out gay, and plenty of large families (nuclear or extended) with more than 10 members and none of them are gay. So to me it seems kind of silly to assume that a Duggar will be gay just because there are 19 kids.

[roddma]

I read somewhere how the focus has been on the older daughters. All the viewer questions on modesty and courtship are directed toward the females.Why doesnt anyone ask what the males think? What are they looking for in a mate? What is their opinion on modesty,purity,etc? The only one who talked about courting was Josh. As rescinded and mended said I can imagine it puts more pressure on them.

[lascuba]

I think there's always more interest in and pressure on women, generally, and for the Duggars specifically, interest in them makes sense because based on their beliefs, there's nothing there with men. They don't really have to make any sacrifices or any hard decisions, and I think even with people who agree with their beliefs, there has to be at least a subconscious resentment of the men who have all the control and make more work for women. Of course they're happy in the lifestyle--it's easy for them. So the focus is on the Michelle and the daughters. Do they really like their lives? Do they honestly enjoy doing all the house and childcare work? And because they're so outwardly cheerful about it all people eat it up. The world loves happy martyrs.

[Feberin]

I would never say the Duggars are perfect. But I feel like speculating that one of the girls has an eating disorder is kind of inappropriate if I don't have any solid evidence. Like if multiple people were reporting that they saw Jinger run to the bathroom and throw up after meals then I wouldn't mind thinking that it's likely she has an eating disorder. But saying that since she's thin and on TV she must have an eating disorder really rubs me the wrong way. I'm fairly thin and was a lot thinner before I had my daughter. My MIL actually asked my husband if I had an eating disorder despite frequently being around me while I was eating. I find it kind of offensive to say that thin=eating disorder just like it's wrong to say that somebody who is overweight must never exercise or eating a lot of junk food. A lot of that stuff is just genetics. And while Michelle has done weight watchers she still looks pretty good for 19 kids and if you look at pictures of her when she was younger I think it's clear that she was pretty thin so I don't find the older girls being thin surprising.

[Trynn]

Besides, with the way the Duggars believe, alerting them to be fact that a child has an eating disorder could very well only make it worse for the child in question.

[Mama Mia]

I'd like to add that the idea that this site in general doesn't do enough speculating about any perceived flaws in the Duggar's lives, individually or collectively, makes me

:lol: :lol: :shock: :shock: :pink-shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :pink-shock: :shock:

I think this may be a first.

[OodOnTheLoo]

Just because statistically speaking 10% or so of people are gay doesn't mean that every group of 10+ people is going to have any gay people in it. I mean, there are plenty of families out there with only 1-2 kids and one kid turns out gay, and plenty of large families (nuclear or extended) with more than 10 members and none of them are gay. So to me it seems kind of silly to assume that a Duggar will be gay just because there are 19 kids.

Absolutely true and I agree with not speculating as they may come down hard on little ones giving off any vibes.

Still, this research gives me great hope the Quiverfulls will overrun the country will fabulous gay men! Starting with the Duggars!

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... thers-inc/

[freejoyannatoo]

I think for me, with the eating disorders thing, it would come down to my belief that it's not appropriate or good to try to guess someone's eating habits (or problems they may have surrounding eating, including eating disorders) from how they look.

And as for this:

Just because statistically speaking 10% or so of people are gay doesn't mean that every group of 10+ people is going to have any gay people in it. I mean, there are plenty of families out there with only 1-2 kids and one kid turns out gay, and plenty of large families (nuclear or extended) with more than 10 members and none of them are gay. So to me it seems kind of silly to assume that a Duggar will be gay just because there are 19 kids.

I didn't say that many people in the FAMILY, did I? I said on the SHOW. There's the extended Duggar family, the Bates, the Kellers, etc etc etc.

Hasn't Michelle got a sister who is a lesbian? There is quite strong evidence of a genetic link to homosexuality. By the way I am of course including women.

I would put a large sum of money on their being at least one gay person on that show. Actually I think there are at least three.

But my point is not whether there is or isn't. My point is, why would anyone deny that it's likely? Because the show says the Duggars are perfect (which of course by their reasoning excludes homosexuality)?

I'm sure the appeal of the show to many viewers is that is depicts an idealised (white, of course) American family with apparently no problems. No gays, no mental illnesses, no disablilities, no social problems. I get that. It just surprises me to find people on here who are also reality-deniers.

[freejoyannatoo]

Absolutely true and I agree with not speculating as they may come down hard on little ones giving off any vibes.

Still, this research gives me great hope the Quiverfulls will overrun the country will fabulous gay men! Starting with the Duggars!

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/having-older-brothers-inc/

Yes, this research chimes with other studies that are increasingly showing male homosexuality to be triggered in the womb, and correlated with the number of elder brothers a man has. Nice link :)

[freejoyannatoo]

Besides, with the way the Duggars believe, alerting them to be fact that a child has an eating disorder could very well only make it worse for the child in question.

You do know that people can die from eating disorders, presumably? Uncontrolled anorexia can lead to little things like osteoporosis, infertility and permanent organ damage, including the heart.

This attitude is what can cause years of suffering and even child deaths in abusive families - "We'd better not tell anyone, they'll only take it out on the child and make things worse".

Assuming hypothetically that a Duggar child did have an eating disorder, how bad would you want it to get before someone "alerted" the family?

[JHeathen]

I read somewhere how the focus has been on the older daughters. All the viewer questions on modesty and courtship are directed toward the females.Why doesnt anyone ask what the males think? What are they looking for in a mate? What is their opinion on modesty,purity,etc? The only one who talked about courting was Josh. As rescinded and mended said I can imagine it puts more pressure on them.

Because the girls had a book to sell.

[RosyDaisy]

I think for me, with the eating disorders thing, it would come down to my belief that it's not appropriate or good to try to guess someone's eating habits (or problems they may have surrounding eating, including eating disorders) from how they look.

And as for this:

Just because statistically speaking 10% or so of people are gay doesn't mean that every group of 10+ people is going to have any gay people in it. I mean, there are plenty of families out there with only 1-2 kids and one kid turns out gay, and plenty of large families (nuclear or extended) with more than 10 members and none of them are gay. So to me it seems kind of silly to assume that a Duggar will be gay just because there are 19 kids.

My aunt had 13 kids. None of them are gay. Another aunt had only one son, and he is gay. My fiancee has 1 brother (straight and has a family), and a sister who is gay. So, yeah, statistics are not absolute.

[BeaSnarky]

Meh, I don't think the Duggars are perfect at all. But I won't speculate on whether a minor is homosexual or straight anywhere, ever. Additionally, I won't jump to conclusions about eating disorders or whether or not a child has special needs based on a half an hour, once a week televisions show that is heavily edited, based on only what I know about the child.

Statistics are based on a larger population that a family of 21. While I think their fundamentalism is whacky, and their stance on abortion is horrible, and yes, Smuggar is a hamsweating ass, I will not say "Jinger has an eating disorder; Josie is developmentally delayed; or XXX is surely homosexual."

[chissprincess]

I didn't say that many people in the FAMILY, did I? I said on the SHOW. There's the extended Duggar family, the Bates, the Kellers, etc etc etc.

Hasn't Michelle got a sister who is a lesbian? There is quite strong evidence of a genetic link to homosexuality. By the way I am of course including women.

I would put a large sum of money on their being at least one gay person on that show. Actually I think there are at least three.

But my point is not whether there is or isn't. My point is, why would anyone deny that it's likely? Because the show says the Duggars are perfect (which of course by their reasoning excludes homosexuality)?

I'm sure the appeal of the show to many viewers is that is depicts an idealised (white, of course) American family with apparently no problems. No gays, no mental illnesses, no disablilities, no social problems. I get that. It just surprises me to find people on here who are also reality-deniers.

Well, I sure as hell don't think the Duggars are perfect. I just don't agree it's automatically likely that someone is gay just because there are a lot of them. Is it POSSIBLE someone on the show is gay? Sure. Is it likely? Well, I don't really know. I certainly don't think sheer statistics guarantee it because, like BeaSnarky said, statistics are based on larger populations than a family of 21 or even than all of the people on the show. Just because statistics say that 10% of the population at large is gay doesn't mean that 10% of every group of people will be gay. And I don't think I'm "denying reality" by accepting that or by preferring not to speculate on the sexuality of a bunch of strangers until/unless I see some actual proof that one or more of them is in fact not straight.

And I'm REALLY curious why you're so invested in this. It seems like you think anyone who doesn't agree with you that there MUST be a gay Duggar/gay someone-else-on-the-show is denying reality or is a leg-humping Duggar-lover who thinks the Duggars are perfect. Um, why?

[freejoyannatoo]

Meh, I don't think the Duggars are perfect at all.

me neither

But I won't speculate on whether a minor is homosexual or straight anywhere, ever.

me neitherAdditionally, I won't jump to conclusions about eating disorders or whether or not a child has special needs based on a half an hour, once a week televisions show that is heavily edited, based on only what I know about the child.

me neither

Statistics are based on a larger population that a family of 21.

yes, that's why I was talking about the show, not just the nuclear Duggar family While I think their fundamentalism is whacky, and their stance on abortion is horrible, and yes, Smuggar is a hamsweating ass, I will not say "Jinger has an eating disorder; Josie is developmentally delayed; or XXX is surely homosexual."

me neither

I guess you didn't read my initial post :lol:

[freejoyannatoo]

Well, I sure as hell don't think the Duggars are perfect. I just don't agree it's automatically likely that someone is gay just because there are a lot of them. Is it POSSIBLE someone on the show is gay? Sure. Is it likely? Well, I don't really know. I certainly don't think sheer statistics guarantee it because, like BeaSnarky said, statistics are based on larger populations than a family of 21 or even than all of the people on the show. Just because statistics say that 10% of the population at large is gay doesn't mean that 10% of every group of people will be gay. And I don't think I'm "denying reality" by accepting that or by preferring not to speculate on the sexuality of a bunch of strangers until/unless I see some actual proof that one or more of them is in fact not straight.

And I'm REALLY curious why you're so invested in this. It seems like you think anyone who doesn't agree with you that there MUST be a gay Duggar/gay someone-else-on-the-show is denying reality or is a leg-humping Duggar-lover who thinks the Duggars are perfect. Um, why?

Ok, thanks for the question.

I was interested in the reality-deniers on this site, and why they post here. Here's why -

To state my background - I am a qualified and accredited counsellor and psychotherapist. I have worked for many years with children and young people with all kinds of problems. I have a degree in psychology and an ongoing interest in the subject, which I aim to keep up-to-date. I am also part of a large family and we are normal, i.e. not perfect, so I have first-hand experience of many of these issues.

So the Duggars mainly interest me because they are a kind of parody of a perfect family. THEY are in the business of denying reality. I am not, and I thought a site called Free Jinger would also be interested in the truth.

I have never stated that so-and-so has a certain condition, a certain sexual orientation, a specific medical issue, or anything like that. I have a professional opinion about these things based on what I see, but of course I am not in a position to make definitive judgements on the basis of a TV programme.

The thing is, it seems quite likely to me that any lay person can see certain issues within the family. I don't claim special insights - maybe I have more training than some people here, but surely we all know what depression, eating disorders, obsessive behaviour and so on look like? They are the common currency of celebrity culture after all.

Yet many posters here seem intent on insisting that everyone on the show is problem-free. Nobody is depressed/anorexic/gay/disabled/ suffering in any way. Every time there is a thread suggesting that all is not well with Michelle/Jana/Jinger/Josiah/Josie/Priscilla etc etc, poeple rush to insist that of course this person is not (insert problem here)

This would make sense on a website called "Aren't the Duggars Just Wonderful?" but I thought "Free Jinger" might have another agenda.

Nobody who has posted on this thread seems to grasp what I'm on about. Perhaps I express myself unclearly? At any rate there doesn't seem much point pursuing my question as I haven't had anyone address it.

Oh well, never mind. I'll figure it out for myself :mrgreen:

[Feberin]

Yet many posters here seem intent on insisting that everyone on the show is problem-free. Nobody is depressed/anorexic/gay/disabled/ suffering in any way. Every time there is a thread suggesting that all is not well with Michelle/Jana/Jinger/Josiah/Josie/Priscilla etc etc, poeple rush to insist that of course this person is not (insert problem here)

This would make sense on a website called "Aren't the Duggars Just Wonderful?" but I thought "Free Jinger" might have another agenda.

Since all of our observations are limited to what the Duggars choose to show us I think anytime somebody suggests that something is wrong with a Duggar there is going to be somebody who disagrees because it's all based on assumptions. Everyone is going to interpret things differently. One person is going to see Jana not smiling and say "she seems so sad. I think she's depressed" while another person could say they don't see it because it's not like the first person had any concrete evidence. I mean what could any of the Duggars let slip onto the show that would actually give us concrete evidence that a Duggar is gay? It's all going to be based on somebody being too feminine/masculine for their gender, which doesn't actually mean they are gay. Most of the time somebody suggests that somebody is depressed it's because they don't look happy. It's not like we know that somebody hasn't left their room in days. We're entirely basing it on how much they smile or how genuine a smile appears even though people can appear unhappy for a lot of reasons that don't have anything to do with actually being depressed. The eating disorder speculation is limited some family members using weight watchers and looking thin/having lost weight. Not actually knowing that they have been not eating. And speculations about somebody being disabled is limited to seeing the child on television for a short very edited period of time not knowing that they aren't meeting XYZ developmental tasks. Since it's all so subjective one person might see Josie speak and say that she is definitely delayed and possibly disabled. Another person could see the same thing and think there is no problem that maybe she was just being silly or something. Until we get any hard evidence that somebody has an issue when people bring it up there is going to be speculation on both sides. I mean look at how there is almost constantly questions about if Anna is pregnant or not. Some people insist that it's definitely true while others deny it. I don't think whether those people agree or deny it have anything to do with them wanting Anna to be pregnant or not.