Fundy mother of 15 dies, depression related

[ViolaSebastian]

Her obituary said that she was preceded in death by her daughter... just wondering if that was part of the reason for her depression. It could have been insomnia related too. I know when i'm overwhelmed i just can't sleep. Depression plus insomnia plus driving = not safe. She looks like she had it all together in the family photos... Such a sad tragedy.

Sadly, it was probably a suicide by an intentional car accident. Unfortunately, this is a pretty common method of suicide, particularly amongst people who have children--it's more likely to look like an accident and result in a life insurance payout. :cry:

[ThisOlGirl]

Sadly, it was probably a suicide by an intentional car accident. Unfortunately, this is a pretty common method of suicide, particularly amongst people who have children--it's more likely to look like an accident and result in a life insurance payout. :cry:

That sounds like an awful way to commit suicide (not that there's a good way to do it). Thankfully, I've never been in a place mentally where I've contemplated suicide. If I was considering it, I'd want to go as painlessly as possible. But again, I've never been there myself, so what do I know? It's just so sad all around.

[Rachel333]

A car accident could also be an impulsive suicide, sadly.

[Mama Mia]

Really, really sad, for everyone.

I have to say it really irritates me when people seem to think a psychiatrist and medication is a guaranteed cure all for people with depression ( or any other mental illness). Yes, it can be a huge, huge help. And many, many people are able to find stability with counseling and medication. But for a fairly large number of people there just aren't medications that work well enough , for them, to get over the suicidal thoughts or not hear the voices in their head I remember to pay the bills. And what people often don't think about is that it is sometimes the medications themselves that greatly increase the symptoms.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for psychiatric care and medication, I have family members who have been greatly helped by these, but way too often there is an attitude that everyone should be 100% if they do what the doctor says! and it doesn't always work that way.

[Coconut Flan]

Don't get me wrong, I am all for psychiatric care and medication, I have family members who have been greatly helped by these, but way too often there is an attitude that everyone should be 100% if they do what the doctor says! and it doesn't always work that way.

There are a lot of factors involved and sometimes it takes a long time and as you say sometimes the amount of relief is minimal or maybe nonexistent.

I think perhaps from a purely casual knowledge of this situation, it would have taken more than psychiatric counseling and meds, she needed household relief and possibly putting some or all of the children in school. All the medical help in the world can't cure overload.

[LongDogMom]

Really, really sad, for everyone.

I have to say it really irritates me when people seem to think a psychiatrist and medication is a guaranteed cure all for people with depression ( or any other mental illness). Yes, it can be a huge, huge help. And many, many people are able to find stability with counseling and medication. But for a fairly large number of people there just aren't medications that work well enough , for them, to get over the suicidal thoughts or not hear the voices in their head I remember to pay the bills. And what people often don't think about is that it is sometimes the medications themselves that greatly increase the symptoms. Don't get me wrong, I am all for psychiatric care and medication, I have family members who have been greatly helped by these, but way too often there is an attitude that everyone should be 100% if they do what the doctor says! and it doesn't always work that way.

I agree, especially if the depression and stress is situation-related and the situation doesn't change. Maybe she just couldn't see any light at the end of the tunnel. It would be a huge amount of stress to deal with one child with severe medical issues, or 15 kids who are healthy, but to have both, as well as financial stress and church responsibilities and this whole additional burden of having to appear happy and joyful all the time. Just thinking about it stresses me out. Medication can't help when the person can't or won't reduce the situational stress and there's no end point in sight.

[blisterine]

I thought of the Lockwood family when I read the headline.

[Mitz_]

Didn't the husband say that it is untrue that Jenny died in a car accident? I took that to mean that there was no car accident and no car wreck at all. Reading on Jenny's FB page I don't see any references to an accident. There is no news story of a fatal accident. I think her death either didn't involve a car at all or it was a carbon monoxide death. She was a super achiever and a perfectionist, I just don't believe she would have gone out in a disastrous crash . She would have done something in a more orderly fashion.

So I guess in her world people who end their own lives don't go to heaven, I wonder what they think will become of her soul? Does she go to hell with the child molesters and murderers? How will this be explained to her children? I wonder if they held her funeral in her church? It just seems like in extreme religions you just can't possibly ever be good enough, maybe she felt that way too.

I can see that people admired her but who was taking care of her when she so desperately needed care? It looks like she was a real hands on mother, not a Michelle Duggar type of "Mother" . Any normal person would buckle under a fraction of her load and I don't understand why this lifestyle is being encouraged.

There is powerfull message behind this woman's death but that message will be swept quickly under the rug. What a freaking shame.

[uber frau]

Maybe. There will always be judgemental arseholes. There are plenty of judgemental arseholes in the secular society, there are just more in the world of conservative Christianity.

On the other hand, it's likely that it will cause a small number of ppl to pause and take stock. True, it's likely to be a minority, but there will be some ppl who reassess the whole situation (including their beliefs about the eternal implications for her soul).

[Jasmar]

Does it say somewhere that they believe suicides can't go to heaven? Because that's. It actually a typical belief in Protestantism, in my experience. I hope they don't believe that, because I can't imagine the additional pain that would bring her family.

[Mitz_]

I'm impressed that her husband is acknowledging her depression. This sounds like a suicide. I hope other fundy families will start paying attention to what they're doing.

He did acknowledge her depression, but does he acknowledge that she was overburdened and faced impossible demands? 15 children ,multiple special needs, homeschooling, financial stress ...I am going to guess not because children are blessings each and every one, There is no way that their church is going to admit that Jenny's death had anything to do with having too many children to care for, saving souls is what it's all about. But yes, hopefully some individuals will give it some thought, maybe Jenny's sad fate will even serve as example and save her own children from the same fate , we all know that is what they are being raised to do, it's crazy scary.

I read the mission statements of the two churches that she was a member of, pretty hard core stuff .

[Stephanie66]

There were no fatal car accidents in all of Iowa on June 29. I am suspecting she would never have risked injuring another person when she planned her suicide, so yeah, carbon monoxide maybe?

Those.poor.kids.

I can't imagine that the dad can handle all of the kids AND work AND go to grad school. There is only so much he can do. Maybe this is the time for the church members to JOYFULLY SERVE and help him with the kids and house so he can work.

I wonder if they ever took this possibility into consideration when they adopted and birthed all of these kids?

[thoughtful]

What a tragedy, for her, for him, and for those kids.

I wonder if her husband will, eventually, say more about her depression and the stresses she was under.

[Coconut Flan]

From my experience, the true child hoarders never expect or plan for their possible demise. I asked one about a year ago what plans were in place for the children in case something happened to one or both of the parents. Their only answer was that the church would take care of the children.

Right. No family in the church would be willing or able to take on a dozen children. At a minimum they would be split up. That is if children's services didn't intervene and handle the placements. If that happened then three children adopted from the foster care system would be back in foster care. Three or four children adopted from foreign orphanages would be in the US foster care system and two of those would probably end up in group homes because they would exceedingly difficult to place.

[Toothfairy]

The signs were there. Someone especially her husband must've noticed something off.

[Coco]

From my experience, the true child hoarders never expect or plan for their possible demise. I asked one about a year ago what plans were in place for the children in case something happened to one or both of the parents. Their only answer was that the church would take care of the children.

Right. No family in the church would be willing or able to take on a dozen children. At a minimum they would be split up. That is if children's services didn't intervene and handle the placements. If that happened then three children adopted from the foster care system would be back in foster care. Three or four children adopted from foreign orphanages would be in the US foster care system and two of those would probably end up in group homes because they would exceedingly difficult to place.

Re bolded: ime too.

Peer pressure makes people ignore logic. Being in a qf group is intense peer pressure to have blind faith in God providing for needs. But can't that mean God 'provides' with ability to work, save and plan ahead? Quiverfull circles push every limit until it's unbearable. i wish they would allow moms to say, i just can't. And it be totally okay, not a lack of faith.

Would getting a mental health diagnosis and put on medication have ended to this couple's ability to foster or adopt? Was the mom medicated and in therapy, or did she just acknowledge that she struggled? Do the social workers allow couples to keep taking on children without some proof that daily life is handled well?

If anyone in QF who is planning to adopt many many troubled kids ever reads this, please consider just donating time and other resources and letting their care be a group effort... Some kids are so difficult to care for that it should be a shared ministry, not placed on the shoulders of one already maxed out mom. God might not be calling you to open your home when it could be just as effective for the child to open your heart and give time and love and then you can be able to go home and recuperate. God doesn't break a bruised reed.

[Savoring Samsara]

Does it say somewhere that they believe suicides can't go to heaven? Because that's. It actually a typical belief in Protestantism, in my experience. I hope they don't believe that, because I can't imagine the additional pain that would bring her family.

Even within Catholicism, this belief has moderated a lot. Many Catholic parishes will now allow suicide victims to be buried in Catholic cemeteries, which was not always the case. Suicide is now typically seen as a result of mental illness rather than a sin - plus they'll allow for the possibility that the person could have repented before death.

[Jasmar]

Even within Catholicism, this belief has moderated a lot. Many Catholic parishes will now allow suicide victims to be buried in Catholic cemeteries, which was not always the case. Suicide is now typically seen as a result of mental illness rather than a sin - plus they'll allow for the possibility that the person could have repented before death.

Thanks, that's great to hear. I wasn't sure about Catholicism.

[chaotic life]

I do not see planning for any deaths or disability common in the majority of large families I have encountered, whether they are fully biological families or adoptive families.

This is something I have long encouraged my large family friends to plan for. When we got married, we got as much life insurance as we could afford on both of us. It wasn't much but it was something to get us through. We held onto my RN license, even through all of the years I was at home as an insurance policy specifically for disability coverage.

At this point, we have enough life insurance on him that I could raise all of the children to adulthood and finish my educational training without needing to earn an income. Thanks to ACA, the one concern we had about health insurance is now also covered, as I could use the healthcare exchange to get insurance while in school.

We have much less on me. That will need to change in the next few years as I finish my schooling, but for now we have sufficient on me to cover about a year of his salary so he can take a leave of absence to care for grieving children. However, realistically, we both expect he would take 2-3 months and then use the rest to cover a nanny to assist in childcare duties.

If he were to become disabled, I would need to go to part-time for school and go back to work full-time, but we would be able to survive. If I were to become disabled, I would need to find some way to earn a small level of income from home.

In addition, we have dependent life insurance on all of the minor children. This was what buried our son who died.

The ONLY thing we're still lagging on is that we need to get life insurance on two of the children with medical issues. Once they age out of being dependents, they won't be covered under our dependent policy and will have trouble getting life insurance as adults. So, before they are adults, we will take out a whole life insurance policy sufficient for burial for each of them, in which we assume we will pay the premiums long-term.

We are VERY rare in our circles to have done this much planning.

[MamaJunebug]

Thanks, that's great to hear. I wasn't sure about Catholicism.

When my brother died by his own hand, I thanked the pastor for indicating in the funeral sermon that Bro was in Heaven, but asked him why I'd been taught to the contrary from the early 1960s on. He looked sad and said, "That's only been an oral tradition, it's never been written down." He was a dove of a man and died not long afterward, I can't feel any resentment toward him. But it did make one wonder.

My uncle died by his own hand before I was born. I distinctly remember BigMamaJB telling me he couldn't be buried in a Lutheran cemetery. When I asked my aunt (uncle's widow) about this years later, she ruffled mightily and said he sure as heck had been buried in a Lutheran cemetery!

That same brother, a few years before his mental illness set in, mused that he'd just been taught in confirmation class that suicides gave up hope, which meant they rejected the Holy Spirit, which was the unforgivable sin, which meant Hell. He said, "MJB, I reject that. The first normal, natural reflex is to continue one's life, so if a person is to the point that he is ready to discontinue life, then something's REAL wrong and it's a sickness, not a sin."

Not long after my bro's death, I was talking to a SBC in-law who was normally the soul of loving kindness. But I held back from saying anything more than that my brother had been ill, and the SBC relative didn't ask further questions. I quizzed a professional acquaintance later whose dad was an SBC pastor (and black, go figure). The acquaintance sadly told me that yes, in SBC doctrine it was an unforgiveable sin.

I thanked God then and now that I had demurred from giving my SBC inlaw all the details.

Any Christian denomination that teaches that suicide is unforgivable is not an denomination with which I want to be associated in any way, shape or form.

ETA: I pray that the children receive good guidance and counsel w/r/t their mom's untimely death. They have to be allowed to say, "It was my fault" or "I could've stopped her" and to be told firmly and as often as possible, "It was not your fault, and nobody could've changed things, and what's most important is that she loved you and she's in Heaven and will see you, all healthy and well, when it's time."

An acquaintance who's wife killed herself brushed off their teenage son's natural reaction that he'd failed, that if he'd only done such-and-so, his mom would've lived. The acquaintance said, "Naaah, ya can't think like that!" and plunged the boy into activities and projects "to get his mind off it." I hope they all did okay. Ok, enough of this from me. Bless those babies.

[roddma]

How sad for all in this situation. While there are secular people who can be in the same situation, Quverfull just adds an extra element. The QF/Patriarchal women seem more at risk than men. The women are supposed to have loads of kids, no outside job, be a super homesteader, etc. I think of the women before birth control who had gobs of kids. There must have been some who felt overwhelmed, but expected societal roles made it hard for women to do otherwise. I read Dolly Parton's mother suffered from depression. The Partons had 12 kids. I guess Michelle Duggar and Kelly Bates just got lucky. Furthermore, I think they have an addiction to pregnancy and babies. They seem to have found balance Still, they are bound to have days where they want to run away or feel overwhelmed.

[It'sFunToRun]

Jenny Groothuis, mother of 15 (8 bio, 7 adopted from Africa) died June 29. Her oldest had just turned 18 & graduated from homeschool. The youngest is 3 I think. The youngest adopted child has severe handicaps/delays. At least one other has had medical problems/several surgeries but I think is OK now (ingested lye in Africa)

I really like that blue/orange color scheme.

I find a religious person committing suicide to be especially disturbing. An atheist might believe that dying will be like before you were born, which I can see being better than a shitty life, but I think most fundies believe you go to hell, so I can't imagine how bad her life must have been. :cry:

[Mama Mia]

He did acknowledge her depression, but does he acknowledge that she was overburdened and faced impossible demands? 15 children ,multiple special needs, homeschooling, financial stress ...I am going to guess not because children are blessings each and every one, There is no way that their church is going to admit that Jenny's death had anything to do with having too many children to care for, saving souls is what it's all about. But yes, hopefully some individuals will give it some thought, maybe Jenny's sad fate will even serve as example and save her own children from the same fate , we all know that is what they are being raised to do, it's crazy scary.

I read the mission statements of the two churches that she was a member of, pretty hard core stuff .

I would hope he isn't going around on social media saying she killed herself because she was to over-burdened by having so many children! That is not a sentiment his children should be reading on-line, or hearing from other people who read it.

[Mitz_]

I would hope he isn't going around on social media saying she killed herself because she was to over-burdened by having so many children! That is not a sentiment his children should be reading on-line, or hearing from other people who read it.

I don't think that particular contributing factor would come as news to any of her children that are of an age to be reading on line. It will be something that they will all likely consider one day no matter if they hear it somewhere else or not. But no, it doesn't need to be put on Facebook.

I don't think anyone has to worry about these children being told anything discouraging about having a mega-family. Not in the environment they live in.

I wonder how long it will take him to remarry.

[Vex]

Really, really sad, for everyone.

I have to say it really irritates me when people seem to think a psychiatrist and medication is a guaranteed cure all for people with depression ( or any other mental illness).

Very true. I've been seeing a psychiatrist since I was 17 and I've been taking meds since then too but I'm still not very functional a decade later. It's not my psychiatrist's fault, I just have major issues. Being so sick when I was in the years where I should have been going to uni and living away from home was incredibly crippling. I honestly barely remember my early twenties and I'm still in my twenties.

It can seem shocking, the way people take their lives, and when you're in a rational headspace of course you want it to be as painless as possible, but when you're suicidal you just want it to be over in whatever way seems accessible. That's how I felt when I was suicidal.

A terminally ill friend of mine committed suicide and even though she probably could have received aid from pro-euthanasia people (even though it's illegal) she chose a method that was pretty horrific and it deeply scarred her girlfriend. It's one of the reasons I am pro-euthanasia, so people with a terminal illness (be it mental or physical) can end their lives without pain and with the greatest possible dignity.