Duggars By the Dozen - General Discussion - Part 8

[grandmadugger]

It's still pretty stupid, though. In what universe does "fundamentalist Christian" and "conservative values" NOT equal raging homophobia? How does one live in the US and still manage to be shocked that a Christian family so fanatical that they have 19 kids and won't even hold hands until they're engaged actively fight to keep basic human rights from others?

Not all of us who have "conservative values" are raging homophobes. I would more than likely be classified as being a conservative but I support marriage equality. Do I believe it is a sin? Yes, I do. Do I believe it's any worse of a sin than any I have committed today? No! I believe we are all sinners and the only deadly sin is not accepting Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior. And with that I'll step off the pulpit.

[grandmadugger]

Jill has made yogurt! Yay. Well, nothing actually wrong with that. It's a good food to be eating and I make it for my family every week. What stood out here is that little Jilly has made a crockpot full. Either they are really into yogurt or a lot of that is going to be thrown away / sent to TTH. Time to scale back the food production Jill. You are catering for two now. (I realise this is all part of learning curve of married life. It's just funny to watch.)

Wasn't that JD's advice to Jill? Learn how to cook for two instead of 20?

[JHeathen]

Not all of us who have "conservative values" are raging homophobes. I would more than likely be classified as being a conservative but I support marriage equality. Do I believe it is a sin? Yes, I do. Do I believe it's any worse of a sin than any I have committed today? No! I believe we are all sinners and the only deadly sin is not accepting Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior. And with that I'll step off the pulpit.

Welp. I'm dead, then. :lol:

[JessaJessa]

That's a lot of yogurt!

[lascuba]

The whole concept of "love the sinner, hate the sin" is nonsense and such a blatant lie that if there were a god those who spout it would be immediately struck by lightening.

[doggie]

The whole concept of "love the sinner, hate the sin" is nonsense and such a blatant lie that if there were a god those who spout it would be immediately struck by lightening.

ya they would be stacking them like cord wood

[Belugaloo]

The whole concept of "love the sinner, hate the sin" is nonsense and such a blatant lie that if there were a god those who spout it would be immediately struck by lightening.

I never understand what people are saying when they say this. First off, I am not anti-gay at all. I am a christian, but I don't believe it is a sin. I believe in marriage equality wholeheartedly.

However, I know many people who "love the sinner, hate the sin" and they do it very sincerely. And it isn't even just pertaining to homosexuality. (note: I am trying to understand what you are saying, i am not arguing)

For example, couldn't you sort of say you "love the sinner, hate the sin" if, for example, your child steals a candy bar from the store? You teach them that it is wrong to steal- that is the sin you are hating- but you definitely do not stop loving your child because they stole something.

Maybe I am confused. I just don't get what people are saying when they say that. lol

[BrownieMomma]

I never understand what people are saying when they say this. First off, I am not anti-gay at all. I am a christian, but I don't believe it is a sin. I believe in marriage equality wholeheartedly.

However, I know many people who "love the sinner, hate the sin" and they do it very sincerely. And it isn't even just pertaining to homosexuality. (note: I am trying to understand what you are saying, i am not arguing)

For example, couldn't you sort of say you "love the sinner, hate the sin" if, for example, your child steals a candy bar from the store? You teach them that it is wrong to steal- that is the sin you are hating- but you definitely do not stop loving your child because they stole something.

Maybe I am confused. I just don't get what people are saying when they say that. lol

I always heard that phrase in Southern Baptist or non-denom circles, now that I attend a Pentecostal church I never hear it.

A recent example springs to mind. We have a young couple at our church. They started living together, then she got pregnant. The church gave them a baby shower, just as they do a married couple. People talk to them, hug them. I don't know how much they are embraced outside of church, nor do I know if they want to be embraced outside the church.

However, I would be surprised if the church threw a same-sex couple a wedding shower and I honestly don't know how a couple would be received if they decided to start attending my church. I am sure people would talk to them and be friendly but beyond that I don't know.

I have been in churches were I decidedly felt unwelcome. No one talked to me, no one greeted me, I felt shunned and might as well have not been there. So it's a big deal to me that my current church does not treat people like that.

[singsingsing]

The reason I finally left the church is because I couldn't reconcile the concept of a loving God with the concept of a God who is complicit in the eternal suffering and torture of millions of people who lived good lives and tried their best to be good people, simply because they didn't believe in something which is, quite frankly, difficult to believe. God is love, but he's going to let my mother burn in agony forever because she 'hasn't accepted Jesus as her saviour'? Screw that. I still believe in God, but not that kind of God. I still consider myself a spiritual person, but the Christian concept of hell is too outrageous.

I know there are Christians who don't believe in hell, or who believe that all will ultimately be redeemed, and I used to be one of them. But reading the Bible straight through taught me that the New Testament is a very alarmist, threatening book. 'Follow as we say - or else.' No thanks. There are still many things I think are beautiful and true about Christianity, but I just couldn't support that kind of ideology anymore.

[Coco]

The reason I finally left the church is because I couldn't reconcile the concept of a loving God with the concept of a God who is complicit in the eternal suffering and torture of millions of people who lived good lives and tried their best to be good people, simply because they didn't believe in something which is, quite frankly, difficult to believe. God is love, but he's going to let my mother burn in agony forever because she 'hasn't accepted Jesus as her saviour'? Screw that. I still believe in God, but not that kind of God. I still consider myself a spiritual person, but the Christian concept of hell is too outrageous.

I know there are Christians who don't believe in hell, or who believe that all will ultimately be redeemed, and I used to be one of them. But reading the Bible straight through taught me that the New Testament is a very alarmist, threatening book. 'Follow as we say - or else.' No thanks. There are still many things I think are beautiful and true about Christianity, but I just couldn't support that kind of ideology anymore.

It's the biggest struggle.

Some people say God gives grace to deal with a situation when it comes up. But i don't think so. I'd still go bat shit crazy if someone tried to hurt my loved ones. No way would i want to be a submissive martyr.

Christians live in a bubble wrap of belief, they have pat answers. But if they consider and look at the suffering, it's impossible to see God as loving. This year has been a total transformation for me, seeing errors in my faith and learning so much. I kept thinking of that verse in 1 Cor. 3, the wisdom of the world is foolishness with God, but then that passage is talking about life purpose: ministry vs. material gain.

I think fundies often sweep the unanswerable questions under the rug. It's not right for them to do that.

--still confused and seeking.

[happy atheist]

Moving on to Part 9: viewtopic.php?f=87&t=24170