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MERGE: Mark Driscoll in the news again/Mars Hill Hits Fan


Marian the Librarian

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Mark Driscoll is overcompensating for a lot, I do believe. I wonder why he feels he has to prove anything? That said, he is a terrible father. I would NEVER allow a convicted child molester in my home, much less let my TWO YEAR OLD daughter pray for him. He was bragging about his hospitality in one post, and how they have over 3000 people pass through their home, blah, blah, blah.

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I didn't past page 8 of that document. If I ever hear the word pussy except in reference to a cat, I'll scream. My fiancee read a lot of it. He dropped so many F bombs that I couldn't keep up. He also said "it cause of these men, I have to take beaten up women to the hospital.

MD and his kind are...well.... I don't think they have invented words for how awful they are. These assholes make my blood boil.

I agree 100%! The protest this coming Sunday will be happening at Mars Hill's main campus which is disgustingly much too close for comfort. It was all over local Seattle news this evening. I read the news summary of MD's remarks and he was spouting so much twisted venom I had a hard time following his revolting train of thought. Maybe that is the problem, no thinking going on, just spewing.

If anyone wants the tumbnail version of his remarks, brace yourself it is extremely ugly:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Mars ... 99031.html

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All right...I read almost all of that nonsense thread. I stopped around ten pages short of finishing it because it was enough. The misogyny and homophobia was bad enough, but there are a myriad of other problems in the discussion Driscoll as William Wallace II and his fan boys have as well.

I know a lot of people who admire Driscoll. When his faults, abusiveness, warped interpretations of scripture, etc...is pointed out to them, the answers are ALWAYS: "his doctrine is sound" and "he is bringing people into the kingdom".

I was raised in mainline Protestantism and became Catholic as an adult. I do not expect to agree about doctrine with a neo-Calvinist like Driscoll. But even setting that aside, in this "discussion" he and his fan boys (because the majority of the people who respond here are just that) get so much wrong about Christianity that it is disturbing that he has been in any kind of ministry ever. A small sampling:

--They consistently claim that Jesus was cynical, angry, raging, rude and arrogant. Clearly, Driscoll has made the age old error of remaking Jesus in his own image. They hold this view as gospel truth and justification for their claim that this is how "real men" must behave. The most cited scripture to defend it is the incident of the moneychangers in the temple. The few dissenters in the thread (at least one of whom seems to know who "Wallace" really is) point out that this is one incident and that it is directed at people exploiting God's people to make money. Driscoll also defends his position with Jesus's arguments with pharisees. Dissenters point out that these are the legalistic religious leaders who misinterpret scripture for their own ends (again at least one seems to know he's talking to Driscoll) not the sinners like the woman at the well. One person says that the Jesus Driscoll paints would have called the woman at the well a "slut" and that his response to her was absolutely nothing like that. No coherent answer is given to that (usually when challenged in the thread, Driscoll either resorts to name calling or just posts a series of out of context Bible verses). No one bothers to point out the Beatitudes or any other point when Jesus calls his followers to meekness, gentleness and humility.

--They claim that the only way men can or should solve conflict is through violence. No one tries to justify this with scripture, though a few try to refute it with scripture, including the only brief mention of the Beatitudes as someone quotes "blessed are the peacemakers"--that is basically ignored. Male roommates, we are told, should solve household conflicts with boxing matches and single men should all live in shared housing where this sort of thing is practiced so they learn to be men before marriage. (The implications of men learning that they can only solve conflict with their fists to make them better husbands in the future is horrifying to me).

--Driscoll writes over and over again about a "rod of grace" which real men must use to correct and punish others. The implication is that a pastor will use it on his congregation and a father/husband on his wife and children. I won't deconstruct the entire Christian concept of grace, but it is not punishment and it is not violence. How any Christian with even a slight understanding of grace can see this as "sound doctrine" is beyond me. Some of his fan boys take this quite literally and express their need to be beaten because they are not "manly" enough. Driscoll makes no comment that would imply he does not agree with this being a literal rod to literally beat grace into people and talks about the "pussified" men needing to "bend over" for their beatings. He does not make any reference to literally beating women or children, but it does not seem like it would be a big leap for him.

--The discussion shifts at one point to matters of marriage and courtship. Driscoll writes about male headship, the authority of fathers to choose husbands for daughters, and courtship. I was not aware he ever advocated that agenda. But those things are old hat around FJ. Here is the piece that is scary (particularly when we swirl it together with the above two pieces--fists to solve conflict and beating grace into people...): they discuss extensively that love is not pleasant, emotional, romantic or about any good/happy feelings whatsoever (one fan boy claims we all got that idea from Shakespeare--???). It is, in the image of Driscoll-fied Jesus I guess, angry, arrogant, rude and cynical. Real love seems to have rage. No one disputes this notion that love is angry. I Corinthians 13 is apparently edited out of their Bibles (the famous love chapter that defines love as patient, kind, not keeping track of offenses...). They all blithely agree that love should be mean, angry, accusatory, etc... basically, the opposite of how scripture defines it in Corinthians. It is clear that this is more justification for the "manly man" ethos of fighting, rage, anger, and Driscoll's "rod of grace".

At RHE's blog, someone said they fear for Grace Driscoll and the couple's five children. I could not agree more. The above three views, argued extensively by Driscoll, added together point to someone who has created a set of justifications for physical and emotional abuse of others. That poster wondered if one of the kids or Grace herself will tell what really goes on in that home eventually.

Finally, in the territory of outright heresy, there is one long post where Driscoll essentially redefines the trinity as being hierarchal. The Father is at the top; Jesus is second and the Holy Spirit is a distant third. Their roles are defined as completely distinct from one another to the point that it seems Driscoll sees little or no oneness/unity in the three persons of the trinity. Google showed that this is actually becoming a popular talking point in neo-Calvinist/Reformed movements. The point is that human constructs must reflect the hierarchy of the trinity and, of course, it is applied to gender roles. God is still the Father and ultimate authority. Men are Jesus and women are the spirit because he is defined as the "helper" which is all women are allowed to be. Someone attempts to point out the heretical redefinition of the trinity to Driscoll, but misidentifies it as modalism allowing Driscoll to tell the guy he does not understand theology and he is not a modalist.

Late in the thread, someone outs Wallace as Driscoll. Driscoll arrives using his own name, tries to sound repentant while justifying himself and did not appear again unless it is in the last ten or so pages that I did not read. I couldn't. It was all so disgusting that it was getting under my skin in a bad way.

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--Driscoll writes over and over again about a "rod of grace" which real men must use to correct and punish others. The implication is that a pastor will use it on his congregation and a father/husband on his wife and children. I won't deconstruct the entire Christian concept of grace, but it is not punishment and it is not violence. How any Christian with even a slight understanding of grace can see this as "sound doctrine" is beyond me. Some of his fan boys take this quite literally and express their need to be beaten because they are not "manly" enough. Driscoll makes no comment that would imply he does not agree with this being a literal rod to literally beat grace into people and talks about the "pussified" men needing to "bend over" for their beatings. He does not make any reference to literally beating women or children, but it does not seem like it would be a big leap for him.

I read most of it too, and could not ignore the homoerotic overtones. It was so outrageous, sometimes I thought he must be trolling, as in these posts about "bending over for the rod of correction." If he was, he was successful because his fanboys ate it up, so to speak.

Driscoll must be compensating for a nanopenis -- don't think it even rises ( :wink-kitty: ) to the level of a micropenis.

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I read most of it too, and could not ignore the homoerotic overtones. It was so outrageous, sometimes I thought he must be trolling, as in these posts about "bending over for the rod of correction." If he was, he was successful because his fanboys ate it up, so to speak.

Driscoll must be compensating for a nanopenis -- don't think it even rises ( :wink-kitty: ) to the level of a micropenis.

It is all quite homoerotic. I don't know if Driscoll is closeted as some people are assuming. He is, without a doubt, deeply insecure about himself, his position, his theology... everything. Some defenders around the web claim to have inside info that he has deep scars from a difficult childhood. That could be true; something is not right. The problem is that, in a quest for money and prestige, the people around him at Mars Hill have let him have free reign to take his insecurities out on their entire community and book publishers have given him a platform to spread his raging warped theology. It is mind boggling to me.

And even more mind boggling that every discussion among evangelicals where his name comes up includes the defense that there is "some good preaching" and "sound doctrine" and that if so many people attend Mars Hill affiliated churches, he must be doing something right. Evangelicalism has an obsession with numbers (one that fundamentalism rarely has) and if Driscoll has 1000s in his churches and sells a lot of books (never mind how), then he is above criticism. :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

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On another forum that I read, someone (currently) credits Driscoll as helping him remove himself from fundamentalism. I have to question that poster's definition of fundamentalism.

I am going to say this: Driscoll is hugely fundamentalist. His specific fundamentals may differ in superficial things like pants on women, men wearing contemporary clothing to a church service instead of a suit and tie, using "small group" as a buzz word, having contemporary music with guitars and drums instead of traditional music with organ and/or piano.

Make no mistake: Driscoll is a worst of the worst fundamentalist, when it comes to the real things. He mis-defines grace in a way that make Gothard's mis-definition look not so bad. He take patriarchy, forced submission of women, mistreatment of others, lack of accountability, power and control to a new level. He's foul, uncouth, full of crudeness, violence, and hate.

Yep - he's a fundamentalist.

And as a Christian, it makes me sick. (I only made it through about the first 3 or 4 pages of that despical Midrash thread). This man has no knowledge of Jesus Christ.

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On another forum that I read, someone (currently) credits Driscoll as helping him remove himself from fundamentalism. I have to question that poster's definition of fundamentalism.

I am going to say this: Driscoll is hugely fundamentalist. His specific fundamentals may differ in superficial things like pants on women, men wearing contemporary clothing to a church service instead of a suit and tie, using "small group" as a buzz word, having contemporary music with guitars and drums instead of traditional music with organ and/or piano.

Make no mistake: Driscoll is a worst of the worst fundamentalist, when it comes to the real things. He mis-defines grace in a way that make Gothard's mis-definition look not so bad. He take patriarchy, forced submission of women, mistreatment of others, lack of accountability, power and control to a new level. He's foul, uncouth, full of crudeness, violence, and hate.

Yep - he's a fundamentalist.

And as a Christian, it makes me sick. (I only made it through about the first 3 or 4 pages of that despical Midrash thread). This man has no knowledge of Jesus Christ.

I saw that on another forum, probably the same one. (Side note: I left that forum after being attacked one too many times for suggesting another view point to one of the members who seems to be on a pedestal and immune to disagreement no matter how trivial or kindly stated. Popped back to see if there was a response to this because I so frequently saw the "but there is good teaching" and "he has sound doctrine" argument there whenever Driscoll came up).

I agree with you completely and don't understand how Driscoll could pull anyone away from fundamentalism unless you define it by the presence or lack of pastors in Mickey Mouse t-shirts.

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I am going to say this: Driscoll is hugely fundamentalist. His specific fundamentals may differ in surperficial things like pants on women, men wearing contemporary clothing to a church service instead of a suit and tie, using "small group" as a buzz word, having contemporary music with guitars and drums instead of traditional music with organ and/or piano.

He's created a niche -- a category, in marketing-speak -- of rude, in-your-face, hipsterism Christianity. He's a religious shock-jock. But like you said, underneath it's the same 'ole fundamentalism. For the life of me, I can't figure out why anybody would follow this guy.

Mark Driscoll : religion :: Ann Coulter : politics

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On another forum that I read, someone (currently) credits Driscoll as helping him remove himself from fundamentalism. I have to question that poster's definition of fundamentalism.

I am going to say this: Driscoll is hugely fundamentalist. His specific fundamentals may differ in superficial things like pants on women, men wearing contemporary clothing to a church service instead of a suit and tie, using "small group" as a buzz word, having contemporary music with guitars and drums instead of traditional music with organ and/or piano.

Make no mistake: Driscoll is a worst of the worst fundamentalist, when it comes to the real things. He mis-defines grace in a way that make Gothard's mis-definition look not so bad. He take patriarchy, forced submission of women, mistreatment of others, lack of accountability, power and control to a new level. He's foul, uncouth, full of crudeness, violence, and hate.

Yep - he's a fundamentalist.

And as a Christian, it makes me sick. (I only made it through about the first 3 or 4 pages of that despical Midrash thread). This man has no knowledge of Jesus Christ.

I have seen people on sites like Stuff Fundies Like use "fundamentalist" to refer only to IFB churches, whereas I use it more broadly, more in keeping with how you use it, I think.

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I have a colleague that attends Mars Hill. To say she's in hell is not an understatement. Her husband has made it clear that if it's a choice between her and Mars Hill, for instance, he's choosing the church. He is so infatuated with his "leadership position" and what he believes is his own importance that he can't be reasoned with.

I don't pray a lot these days, but I pray with everything inside that this is the end for Driscoll and for Mars Hill. I've already talked to my husband about attending Sunday morning's protest, which is being held at the Bellevue Mars Hill. We've never gone to the church, but numbers send a message not just to Driscoll and his fan-boys, but to the surrounding community. This isn't a "church". It's a cancer.

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I have a colleague that attends Mars Hill. To say she's in hell is not an understatement. Her husband has made it clear that if it's a choice between her and Mars Hill, for instance, he's choosing the church. He is so infatuated with his "leadership position" and what he believes is his own importance that he can't be reasoned with.

I don't pray a lot these days, but I pray with everything inside that this is the end for Driscoll and for Mars Hill. I've already talked to my husband about attending Sunday morning's protest, which is being held at the Bellevue Mars Hill. We've never gone to the church, but numbers send a message not just to Driscoll and his fan-boys, but to the surrounding community. This isn't a "church". It's a cancer.

Please give us a full report if you go.

I have relatives who link his stuff on social media and friends who defend him. In a conversation right now with one who has declared that "if people in his church think something is not right, they can leave" thus it is not fair to accuse him of any kind of spiritual abuse of his congregation...But your friend's situation is a good example of why it is not so easy to leave. And, of course, the numbers argument keeps coming up. Because the number of butts in seats is apparently the be all and end all of how someone's ministry, theology and behavior should be evaluated when it comes to mega-churches. I feel like I'm over using this emoticon: :angry-banghead:

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Calling mark Driscoll a hipster Christian is an insult to hipster Christians everywhere.

:clap: Thank you.

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I have a colleague that attends Mars Hill. To say she's in hell is not an understatement. Her husband has made it clear that if it's a choice between her and Mars Hill, for instance, he's choosing the church.

Guess he missed that part about, "Husbands, love your wives..."

Hope things improve for your colleague, one way or another. Hope she can see that she is not obligated to stay in a situation where she is treated like that.

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Mark Driscoll is a douche lord. Can't we put him and his kind on a rocket and send them to a hill on Mars? Hopefully, Marvin the Martian the take care of him with his ray gun.

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The current assistant pastor (or whatever his title is) at Bellevue Mars Hill has issued a statement. Shorter pastor, if I read this correctly: Bellevue Police Department has been notified and will most likely be making arrests at Sunday's protest. This appeared on Mars Hill's internal website, The City. and was posted on the MS protestors' Facebook page this morning.

I plan on doing nothing more than standing on the sidewalk with a sign. We'll see how this goes. MH is a cancer in our community.

Pastor Matt Rogers

From Pastor Matt Rogers:

This Sunday morning, we are expecting a group of people to hold a peaceful protest on the sidewalk near the church building. The church staff and volunteer leaders are working with the city and other neighboring businesses to be sure everyone is treated with respect, feels safe, and as a church family we are able to come together and worship without distraction.

As we prepare for this Sunday, I wanted to share a few reflections with you on how we can best show love for Jesus and others.

Please pray for our church. As Pastor Mark shared in his recent communications with the church there were times he was “angry in a sinful way†and that “people who saw or experienced my sin during this season are hurt.†A process was established with the oversight of our Board of Accountability and Advisors through Crossways Resolution Group to pursue personal reconciliation in a biblical way which you can read about here. As fellow elders we have seen the fruit of this repentance growing for several years in the way Pastor Mark leads from the pulpit and the way he leads behind the scenes.

As Christians we will pursue peace with our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, but we will not be able to reconcile with everyone. While some carry hurt and burdens that we are attempting to reconcile, others are pursuing changes to our legal structure, others want change in our theological convictions, and others want change in our ministry philosophy. On many of these areas we simply will not be able to agree. But we will strive to interact with those who disagree with us on these matters in a way that is biblical and does not harm the reputation of Jesus’ church with those watching from the outside.

Please pray for the people who are protesting. Your pastors are asking you to join us in praying for those who will be protesting. We pray for them because we believe most are our brothers and sisters in Christ. We pray for them because it guards our own hearts from reacting in ways that do not glorify the Lord or commend Christ to this city. And we pray because in times of uncertainty we have a Father in Heaven who loves us and comforts us through his Holy Spirit.

We will worship Jesus together every Sunday. We have a great privilege of coming together to worship as a family of brothers and sisters in Christ. That precious time together is a gift we will never forsake as a church for any reason. My heart needs that time together every week. The Holy Spirit moves among us in a special way when hundreds of voices are raised singing of the mighty works of God, listening to the good news of Jesus Christ, and seeking the Lord together in prayer. That time in communion together is a gift bought for us when Jesus took the wrath we deserved for our sin on himself. This time together every week is a chance for us to rejoice in the gift of salvation we have received through faith in Christ.

On a personal note, I wish all of you had the opportunity to know Pastor Mark as I do. My family came to Mars Hill Church about five years ago, and I can say I have never experienced the church or the man people write about before that time. I simply don’t recognize that church and I don’t recognize that man. Having been a leader in one capacity or another the entire time Pastor Mark has been here in Bellevue I’ve spent time with him backstage, spent time with his family, shared meals together, and been in many meetings with him. He is a man who has learned the hard way how to be a good pastor—and by God’s grace that’s what he is today. I can only speak for the Pastor Mark I have come to know over the last few years. He is a man worthy of respect and I am grateful to call him my pastor.

Sunday is not about Pastor Mark and it’s not about Mars Hill Church. It’s not about protestors and it’s not about you or me. It’s all about Jesus. This Sunday we will sing about Jesus, we will hear how Jesus saves us from our sin, and we will pray that more people will know Jesus and have eternal life with Him.

Pastor Matt

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Yeah. Well.

We were involved in a church in my hometown where the pastor was a huge Driscoll fanboy, and he ran the church with a highly entitled iron fist. Just like his hero.

We left before the church imploded, which it did in a spectacular fashion. The damage this guy did to some of his former fanboys is straight out of the Mark Driscoll playbook. I didn't learn what went on behind the scenes until very recently, and then the couple of people who did speak to me were very hesitant, and insistent that I not repeat what they told me to this pastor or his allies.

Until I started on my own discovery process regarding abuse dynamics with respect to my marriage, I didn't know what to think about it all. The pastor in question is masterful at presenting himself as "repentant" and sadder-but-wiser. I can't give more detail than that or I could out myself here, and I do NOT want to do that.

Needless to say, this guy is paralleling just what "Pastor Matt" is parroting about Driscoll. Both leaders have their yes-men painfully well-trained in propaganda, and the followers probably believe every bit of what they're spouting.

But I've learned a lot the very hard way over the last year, and am thankful to be able to identify narcissistic abusers much more clearly than I used to. Mark Driscoll/Mars Hill is indeed a cancer.

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Yeah. Well.

We were involved in a church in my hometown where the pastor was a huge Driscoll fanboy, and he ran the church with a highly entitled iron fist. Just like his hero.

We left before the church imploded, which it did in a spectacular fashion. The damage this guy did to some of his former fanboys is straight out of the Mark Driscoll playbook. I didn't learn what went on behind the scenes until very recently, and then the couple of people who did speak to me were very hesitant, and insistent that I not repeat what they told me to this pastor or his allies.

Until I started on my own discovery process regarding abuse dynamics with respect to my marriage, I didn't know what to think about it all. The pastor in question is masterful at presenting himself as "repentant" and sadder-but-wiser. I can't give more detail than that or I could out myself here, and I do NOT want to do that.

Needless to say, this guy is paralleling just what "Pastor Matt" is parroting about Driscoll. Both leaders have their yes-men painfully well-trained in propaganda, and the followers probably believe every bit of what they're spouting.

But I've learned a lot the very hard way over the last year, and am thankful to be able to identify narcissistic abusers much more clearly than I used to. Mark Driscoll/Mars Hill is indeed a cancer.

I think it takes a lot of study, experience and work to clearly identify abuse dynamics. Some of it can be learned academically but the most lasting lessons seem to be from painful personal experiences. Kudos J on your journey, I suspect it has redefined the word "difficult".

I think Mark Driscoll's issues go well beyond twisting basic Christian ideas of grace, love and the trinity. Driscoll was raised Catholic and seems to have a pathological hatred for that faith tradition which makes me wonder if that is why he has twisted the concept of the trinity beyond recognition to justify his fundamentalist/headship views.

Driscoll is mentally ill and some of his much touted high numbers of membership may be possible not due to his "sound doctrine" defenders but the fact he attracts other mentally ill or simply vulnerable people.

I don't call everyone I disagree with mentally ill, that would be a childish cop-out and just name calling, but I do see patterns of behavior and thought that correspond with non-fundamentalist people I know who do have serious mental health issues.

One such pattern of behavior would be unrelenting rage and hatred for unspecified and often unmerited reasons. The idea that an individual or a dissenting group should be punished endlessly for minor or made up transgressions. There is no time time limit to how long or extreme the punishment should be.

Another pattern would be enjoying inflicting pain on others. Taking public actions to intentionally humiliate those under your influence. Such tactics have one goal to rattle and send those under your influence into a defensive tailspin making them easy to control.

A third common pattern between Driscoll and some mentally ill people is an obsession with secrecy and having dirt (real or imagined) on those seen as your enemies. There is a huge difference between confidentiality and an obsession with secrecy. Driscoll's inner circle and fan boys seem to thrive on the idea they have special knowledge or access.

The whole report on each other dynamic seen in both cults and a number of fundamentalist sects seems to be alive and well with Driscoll/Mars Hill. I don't see that as much different from people who keep multiple pairs of binoculars on their windowsills to spy on the neighbors unloading groceries or taking their kids to school.

I realize the difference between common dysfunctional relationships and mental illness is frequently a matter of degree. Driscoll/Mars Hill are operating on the extreme side of such patterns of thought and behavior.

The money is still rolling in. This summer (2014) three days of bible camp at Mars Hill for a single child would be around $400. A different local Christian ministry bible camp offers seven days for the same price. Mars Hill still think they super special snowflakes to offer so little for so much money.

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This summer (2014) three days of bible camp at Mars Hill for a single child would be around $400. A different local Christian ministry bible camp offers seven days for the same price. Mars Hill still think they super special snowflakes to offer so little for so much money.

Wow. Most churches do that for free, as an outreach, and call it "vacation Bible school".

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(Mars Hill has a history of secretive ecclesiastical trials, including “demon trials†to summon individual devils and put them on the stand.)

(From the article)

What...WTF is this all about? Summoning devils? Can anyone expound on this practice? I had no idea it was a thing actually done by a serious church organization. I'm imagining Driscoll talking to thin air and saying to everyone "Can't you see the DEMON before me?" And everyone just nodding along to keep him happy...

ETA: Wow. Predictably news, everybody! Mental illness is caused by demonic possession. So is a host of other things, according to the Mars Hill Website: "Please consider the following list and list each thing that has been besetting and/or habitual for you: bestiality, habitual lying, physically unhealthy, masturbation, lying, pornography, ongoing depression, suicidal thoughts, alcohol abuse, drug use, anger, blasphemy, violence, self-inflicted injury, rape, incest, eating disorders, mental illness, pedophilia, and anything else that comes to mind." Yeah...I always knew my bad back was caused by the debil and not, you know, that spinal fusion I had. Anyway, Driscoll outlines the wackiness that is a "demon trial" on his website...marshill.com/2008/08/26/spiritual-warfare. The whole thing seems to me to be a way to get ultra-personal information from someone, to be recorded and used at a later date for Driscoll's own devices.

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There are so many similarities to Scientology it seems.

I think the Bible Camp is overnight camp for several days at a ranch which is why there is a charge.

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Agree - he is a narcissistic and abusive leader. I also think he draws people in who are codependent and perhaps from abusive backgrounds. My own history of abuse is one reason why I was drawn to legalism and the control fundamnetalism offers.

That e-mail to the congregation feels typically cultish. "It's all about Jesus." Right. Clearly that is why one of Mars Hills THREE unmovable principles upon which the church has founded is the one on gender roles. :roll: Also the call to prayer is a way to continue to define MarsHillgoers as insiders and anyone else as outside and in need of prayer.

Also: just learned Driscoll issued a statement on Friday. He does say those comments are his but of course explains it away as part of his Angry Prophet days. http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleani ... -hill.html

What's wild to me is the fact that he made those comments during the foundational days of developing Mars Hills' identity. How is that not relevant? It's like when he admitted in his marriage book that his marriage was on the rocks when he was preaching on Song of Solomon and requiring women to give oral sex to convert their husbands.

Okay, apologize, whatever - but clearly your issues disqualify you from this kind of leadership.

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Here's his blow jobs are Biblical sermon. He also extols his audience to awaken their husband's with them, which strikes me as a not entirely Biblical, but what do I know?

[bBvideo 560,340:pzisdzqr]

[/bBvideo]

I've just started down the Mars Hill rabbit hole (hello, Saturday night!), but I can already tell this dude has some major sexual issues. I watched part of a sermon on "spiritual warfare" and he was discussing a teenage girl who kept describing herself as a "dirty girl." He said the phrase "dirty girl" a cringe-inducing number of times...

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