Eminent Theologian Ben Seewald on Catholicism

[congusto]

The highly anticipated Ben Seewald Facebook thesis "Catholics: Doing it Wrong for 2000 Years" was finally published!

 

http://amradaronline.files.wordpress.co ... holics.png

 

Sadly, he was convicted to delete the post when commenters pointed out that he really has no clue at all about Catholicism.

 

 

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/ ... criticism/

 

 

**not breaking links, because RADAR

[BeccaGrim]

Okay, I'm confused. Please excuse me my ignorance. I was raised a Reform Jew and I am not understanding some of the things he has written here (although I do have a workable knowledge of most of it.) Can someone explain to me how Ben defines the word of God differently than God's Word?

[congusto]

Sorry all! I finally realized this has been covered in the BenBob Social Media thread :embarrassed:

I was out late at a concert last night, and am clearly not fit to post today. I think I'll just browse now.

Mods, do you mind working your magic on this?

[louisa05]

Okay, I'm confused. Please excuse me my ignorance. I was raised a Reform Jew and I am not understanding some of the things he has written here (although I do have a workable knowledge of most of it.) Can someone explain to me how Ben defines the word of God differently than God's Word?

It is just two different ways of phrasing the same thing. Both are fundyspeak for scripture. Just a usage difference like saying "the home of the Jones family" or "the Jones family's home"--either is the same house.

[BeccaGrim]

Isn't he, in that rant, trying to state that he follows the word of God but Catholics follow God's word as if he sees them as different? I'm not arguing the point. I don't understand the difference either. To Ben, is there a difference?

[louisa05]

Isn't he, in that rant, trying to state that he follows the word of God but Catholics follow God's word as if he sees them as different? I'm not arguing the point. I don't understand the difference either. To Ben, is there a difference?

I think you misread it. He said he will cut Catholics some slack in the areas in which they follow God's word. In the sentence before, he declares that he must, himself, follow the word of God. The difference in phrasing is likely his attempt at the two sentences not sounding repetitive.

[Becket70]

I am reminded of one of the great movie lines of all time. From the Beatles movie "A Hard Day's Night": "Here's this guy giving his utterly valueless opinion...". This guy is way too brainwashed to give his opinion on Catholicism. He needs to leave the discussion to people who have degrees in theology.

[PrairieGirl]

[BeccaGrim]

Thank you. I did misread it because I was so mind blown about the nerve of the whole thing. Yes, its Jessa's Ben.

[salex]

I suspect TLC put a little pressure on him, since I'm sure he has signed a contract by now....

[August]

I am reminded of one of the great movie lines of all time. From the Beatles movie "A Hard Day's Night": "Here's this guy giving his utterly valueless opinion...". This guy is way too brainwashed to give his opinion on Catholicism. He needs to leave the discussion to people who have degrees in theology.

Aren't those the two key differences, though? Mary, mother of god or Mary, blessed woman. And salvation by works or by faith alone (rape as many babies as you like, if you do it in Jesus' name it's all good). It's fashionable to make nice among denominations and religions, but really at the end of the day, if you believe in hell and believe in a set of requirements to avoid it, then anyone who doesn't fulfill those will burn. But, IIRC, denying the holy spirit is an absolutely unforgivable direct, unforgivable pass straight to hell. So anyone who's converted is wasting their time. If you had a second of doubt at any point, bam, you're going to burn with Charles Manson.

I must admit that when we studied Luther in high school I was more interested in destroying the priest's faith than in the exact weave and cut of the emperor's clothes, but I'd put money on Mary's status being a biggie for him. Isn't salvation by works a new Francis thing?

[Coconut Flan]

People like to make things simple so resort to black and white dichotomies. It isn't one or the other. As James said, "Faith without works is dead."

[louisa05]

People like to make things simple so resort to black and white dichotomies. It isn't one or the other. As James said, "Faith without works is dead."

This. And Francis' emphasis on the social justice teachings of the church is not an attempt to reframe the theology of justification by grace.

A good summary of the Catholic view is here:

Rather, as the Council of Trent teaches, justification “is not only the remission of sins but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior person through the voluntary reception of grace and of the gifts. . .that one may be an heir in hope of eternal life.â€

Interior sanctification and renewal – that is, growth in faith – occurs through works: of prayer, of charity, and of faith itself. It is God who sanctifies us, but we have to commit our freedom to his work. This is the Catholic doctrine of works and cooperation. And so we can say with St. James: “For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.†(2:26)

The whole article gives greater detail:

thecatholicthing.org/columns/2012/faith-or-works-a-different-approach.html

[anjulibai]

Aren't those the two key differences, though? Mary, mother of god or Mary, blessed woman. And salvation by works or by faith alone (rape as many babies as you like, if you do it in Jesus' name it's all good). It's fashionable to make nice among denominations and religions, but really at the end of the day, if you believe in hell and believe in a set of requirements to avoid it, then anyone who doesn't fulfill those will burn. But, IIRC, denying the holy spirit is an absolutely unforgivable direct, unforgivable pass straight to hell. So anyone who's converted is wasting their time. If you had a second of doubt at any point, bam, you're going to burn with Charles Manson.

I must admit that when we studied Luther in high school I was more interested in destroying the priest's faith than in the exact weave and cut of the emperor's clothes, but I'd put money on Mary's status being a biggie for him. Isn't salvation by works a new Francis thing?

To the bolded, is that what you think Catholics believe? No, just no. I hope I am misunderstanding you.

Salvation through works is following Christ's example by aiding the poor, healing the sick, working towards social justice, etc.

It is not something new to Francis. Denying the Holy Spirit is not necessarily something that will lead to total damnation, as 1) you may have been taught differently and 2) you have the opportunity to repent.

As it stands, there is debate within Catholicism over certain aspects of salvation and who is saved and who isn't. Francis hasn't changed that.

As for Mary, she is the mother of God, and a blessed woman, worthy of veneration, not worship. Many non-Catholics mistake the veneration for worship. Prayer to someone who is venerated is no different than asking your neighbor to pray for you; you are just asking a holy person who has died and sits with God to pray for you.

I think it is entirely possible for religions to co-exist, and for believers to accept that, while specific esoteric doctrine might differ, the things that matter for salvation or acceptance to heaven are constant. Thus a Catholic, a Protestant and an Orthodox might differ on which books are canon, they all believe in Christ and are thus saved.

I think those that think otherwise enjoy the idea that some people are going to hell, while they are superior and going to heaven.

[nausicaa]

Sorry all! I finally realized this has been covered in the BenBob Social Media thread :embarrassed:

I was out late at a concert last night, and am clearly not fit to post today. I think I'll just browse now.

Mods, do you mind working your magic on this?

Don't worry about it! I'd read about this on the Duggars thread, but your title still made me snort out loud when I read it.

[Snarkle]

The highly anticipated Ben Seewald Facebook thesis "Catholics: Doing it Wrong for 2000 Years" was finally published!

http://amradaronline.files.wordpress.co ... holics.png

Sadly, he was convicted to delete the post when commenters pointed out that he really has no clue at all about Catholicism.

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/ ... criticism/

**not breaking links, because RADAR

Love how in the RADAR article it says, "Michelle and Jim Bob’s daughter Jessa, 21, has been heavily courting with Seewald and its been highly publicized this season on 19 Kids and Counting."

Is there a difference in "regular" and "heavy" courting? Just was amused by the terminology here as it insinuates a lot more than is probably truly there.

And as for Ben's "thoughts" (I won't even justify them as original or observations of his own), WTF? Is he coming for the Jews next? How about Muslims? Is he praying for all of our heathen souls?

[Coco]

Don't worry about it! I'd read about this on the Duggars thread, but your title still made me snort out loud when I read it.

same here. :lol: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[snarkopolis]

Aren't those the two key differences, though? Mary, mother of god or Mary, blessed woman. And salvation by works or by faith alone (rape as many babies as you like, if you do it in Jesus' name it's all good). It's fashionable to make nice among denominations and religions, but really at the end of the day, if you believe in hell and believe in a set of requirements to avoid it, then anyone who doesn't fulfill those will burn. But, IIRC, denying the holy spirit is an absolutely unforgivable direct, unforgivable pass straight to hell. So anyone who's converted is wasting their time. If you had a second of doubt at any point, bam, you're going to burn with Charles Manson.

I must admit that when we studied Luther in high school I was more interested in destroying the priest's faith than in the exact weave and cut of the emperor's clothes, but I'd put money on Mary's status being a biggie for him. Isn't salvation by works a new Francis thing?

Mary is venerated, not worshipped. For you laypeople think of it like this--if you wanted to get someone important (like Jesus) to do something for you (whatever you are praying for) wouldn't asking his mom (Mary) be a good way to get him to do it for you?

Catholics do not believe in prayer equals heaven. We have to have faith and demonstrate that faith by what we do (live, work, play well with others, etc.). Even the Act of Contrition has a line in which we confess to what we have done (sins of commission) and what we have not done (sins of omission).

It is my understanding that most (fundamentalist?) Christians think that praying is good enuf. For Catholics it is not nearly good enuf.