I'm reading Growing Up Duggar

[BriarRose1122]

I'm disappointed because what I really wanted was a "tell-all". Lol.

 

Anyway, I'm three chapters in and it's very boring. Very boring and kind of repetitive.

 

The first chapter is all about how you should accept yourself as who you are and not compare yourself to other girls and know that God made you beautiful the way you are. That part is fine.

 

But there's a lot of back and forth with "don't feel like your appearance should matter too much" quickly followed by "we are super careful with what we eat because we don't want to gain any weight and we feel like we are struggling with becoming fat" etc Not in those words.

 

Mention of how Josh gained twenty pounds and is now trying to lose it.

 

Also mentioned how Michelle joined weight watchers and because of that became an "inspiration" to the girls.

 

Mention of how Michelle makes "nutritious" meals. No mention of tater tot casserole or how the girls do much of the cooking.

 

They didn't even get thru one whole chapter before we heard the phrase "buy used and save the difference". Lol

 

We hear about how the girls don't care about labels on clothes because they want their label to say God or something like that so they don't worry about labels.

 

They say they don't want clothes to be formless or frumpy (YES THEY DID USE THE WORD FRUMPY HAHA) but they also don't want clothes to be tight in the wrong places.

 

They make a habit of placing their hand on their collarbone when bending over so they won't accidentally let someone see down their shirt.

 

We find out that the first thing they do when they travel to a new city is look for clothing thrift shops so they can buy more clothes. Mention that the first thing josh does in a new city is look up all the local pawnshops.

 

Talks about how hair should be styled and pretty because it frames the countenance and because God said hair is your crowning glory so it should be long and carefully styled but that "you shouldn't spend two hours doing your hair, though".

 

Story of how Jill decided she didn't look nice enough to go to church one day because she was comparing herself to Jessa, and almost made everyone late for church because she changed her clothes so many times in order to try to look as cute as Jessa.

She actually mentions, that she had to run to different bathrooms trying to find hairspray that morning because they were all out of it! LOL

 

We hear some stories of the past like Jana out peroxide in her hair to do a cheap highlight job, and she thought it didn't work because nothing happened, so she went outside to work in the flower bed, but the sunlight made it work so when she came into the house her twin brother John David said "wow Jana did you dye your hair orange?!" Jana got upset and wished she had sought her mom's advice before messing with her hair, and JimBob told her she should have asked mom first because peroxide is nothing to play around with. Then Jana tried to fix it herself by buying dark hair dye that turned her hair black. Again she wished she had asked mom first.

 

A quick mention of how they sleep. Jana and another girl maybe Jill I forget sleep in double beds with Josie and Jordyn Grace in the beds with them, and the rest have single beds. I wouldn't like being 24 and having to sleep next to a kicking toddler or little kid. But that's just me. I'm sure Jana loves it. Lol.

 

Another story was that Jana unwound all the toilet paper off the roll as a toddler and then cried because she didn't know how to put it back on.

 

Also a quick story about how Johanna wanted to try on one of the older girls retainers but was told no of course. The older girl, I forget which one, said that thinking about the retainer fitting only her and not hannie, made her think about how each of us is made individually and cannot fit another persons mold.

 

A story that really surprised me was that Jessa talked about when she went to a friends birthday party when she was twelve or thirteen.

No mention of who the friend is or how they knew each other.

No mention of any of Jessa's sisters or brothers going, it sounded like an actual girls party with just all girls the same age, not one of these family-friend things.

So anyway all the girls at the party were talking about the latest movies and Jessa felt left out because she hadn't seen any of the movies, and decided she wasn't as cool as the other girls and felt bad about herself.

She also felt ugly because she didn't like her hair and thought the other girls thought her clothes were uncool.

Poor Jessa also thought her eyes weren't pretty and her nose wasn't cute, or something like that.

Mom and dad reminded Jessa that she is her own self and she is just how. God made her and she shouldn't compare herself to the other girls.

Maybe this is why they're not allowed to have friends anymore?!

 

Edited in to add that the beginning of the book says that their parents told them they want each of them to follow god individually, meaning listen to what he is saying and telling you thru the scriptures and do what he says to do.

They actually saify that god may tell people different things and what god tells you to do may be different than what he tells someone else to do.

And yet, they all seem to somehow have the exact same convictions and follow god exactly the same, despite this.

 

Oh another thing to add: in the "thanks" part at the beginning they thank their parents and say they have spent so much individual one on one time with each of the nineteen children and they claim that their parents spend more one on one time with them than parents do who only have one or two kids.

 

Oh and a mention of how Michelle says that she wouldn't walk down the street in a bra and panties (pass the brain bleach please) and so she doesn't think you should walk around in a two piece or even a one piece bathing suit because "it's the same thing".

 

I'm not too far into the book yet but I'll post more if anyone wants to hear it but doesn't want to read the whole book themselves.

[iateallthebrownies]

I want to hear it! Thank you for posting this. :)

[salex]

yes please, interested in your report on this.

[FloraDoraDolly]

Thanks for your post. My local library has this book, but I haven't read it yet because it is always checked out. :pink-shock:

[freejoyannatoo]

Yes, I'd love to hear more - thank you for posting!

This made me so sad -

"Another story was that Jana unwound all the toilet paper off the roll as a toddler and then cried because she didn't know how to put it back on."

Even at that age she was afraid. I wonder if she was more scared of God or Mommy being angry?

And - she sleeps with her preschool -aged sister??? I feel more and more sorry for Jana.

[alba]

Thanks for taking one for the team :P I wanted to read this book because I'm curious what's inside, but I don't want to give them money and I have at least 30 books on my to-read list that are written by people who actually have a high school education, so ...

Also a quick story about how Johanna wanted to try on one of the older girls retainers but was told no of course. The older girl, I forget which one, said that thinking about the retainer fitting only her and not hannie, made her think about how each of us is made individually and cannot fit another persons mold.

And yet none of them questions that the mould each of them "belong" in is wife and mother to eleventy children. I think possibly the greatest disservice these parents have done is not provide their children with opportunities to develop critical thinking skills.

Oh another thing to add: in the "thanks" part at the beginning they thank their parents and say they have spent so much individual one on one time with each of the nineteen children and they claim that their parents spend more one on one time with them than parents do who only have one or two kids. :think:

They honestly know nothing about how normal families operate. What, do they think parents shove their children in daycare after breakfast and pick them up before bed, seven days a week? I'm one of four, and we had WAY more one-one-one time growing up. Lemme do the maths:

19 children, 15 hours a day, 7 days a week:

15*7 = 105

105/19 = 5.5 hours per week per child

4 children, 15 hours a day, 2 days a week; 4 hours a day, 5 days a week:

(15*2) + (5*5) = 50

50/4 = 12.5 hours per week per child

Even taking out time for parents working late or swimming lessons and choir practice on evenings and weekends, we still come out ahead, and we've twice as many children as average. I reiterate: SOTDRT has a lot of explaining to do when it comes to critical thinking (or maybe just basic arithmetic). The worst bit is, it's probably deliberate on Jichelle and Dim Bulb's part. I know neither is the sharpest tool in the shed, but they must know saying that the average parent spends less than an hour a day with each child (including on weekends!) is absolute bull, but they teach their children this to keep them sheltered and toeing the party line. It's disgusting.

[itsnotmeitsu]

I read it and I thought, as far as practicality, Michelle's book was better for people who don't have 2+siblings. It had parenting tips that I would use for my kid, but this one, I kind of lose it when they started talking about finding the conservative candidate that best matches your view. But, then again, I am not the intended audience for this book.

[nelliebelle1197]

Thanks for taking one for the team :P I wanted to read this book because I'm curious what's inside, but I don't want to give them money and I have at least 30 books on my to-read list that are written by people who actually have a high school education, so ...

And yet none of them questions that the mould each of them "belong" in is wife and mother to eleventy children. I think possibly the greatest disservice these parents have done is not provide their children with opportunities to develop critical thinking skills.

They honestly know nothing about how normal families operate. What, do they think parents shove their children in daycare after breakfast and pick them up before bed, seven days a week? I'm one of four, and we had WAY more one-one-one time growing up. Lemme do the maths:

19 children, 15 hours a day, 7 days a week:

15*7 = 105

105/19 = 5.5 hours per week per child

4 children, 15 hours a day, 2 days a week; 4 hours a day, 5 days a week:

(15*2) + (5*5) = 50

50/4 = 12.5 hours per week per child

Even taking out time for parents working late or swimming lessons and choir practice on evenings and weekends, we still come out ahead, and we've twice as many children as average. I reiterate: SOTDRT has a lot of explaining to do when it comes to critical thinking (or maybe just basic arithmetic). The worst bit is, it's probably deliberate on Jichelle and Dim Bulb's part. I know neither is the sharpest tool in the shed, but they must know saying that the average parent spends less than an hour a day with each child (including on weekends!) is absolute bull, but they teach their children this to keep them sheltered and toeing the party line. It's disgusting.

We have two and both work full time. We have worked out schedules to spend as much time as possible with our kids- drop off at 8 by my husband and pick up at 2:30 by me. We are at all lessons and games for the kids. I have a nanny (who is one of my best friends and has been for 25 years - kids call him uncle - for 5 hours a week)Just taking in the waking hours and removing a few hours for playdates, etc, one parent at least is with our kids for 70 hours a week, or 35/child. Beat that, Duggars.

[BriarRose1122]

Original poster here.

I have the book for three weeks only, I got it from the library, and I had to wait on hold for it...I was like number 89 on the list :pink-shock: and there are about sixty more holds after me :pink-shock:

Yes I always feel for Jana.

In my opinion she has had a lot of past hurts.

I flipped forward in the book and saw the story about her jewelry box being given to Jessa and I'll post more about that later but for now the big difference was in the book they present it as a happy thing and in real life Jana cried real tears while talking about it.

[antwan]

Edited in to add that the beginning of the book says that their parents told them they want each of them to follow god individually, meaning listen to what he is saying and telling you thru the scriptures and do what he says to do.

They actually saify that god may tell people different things and what god tells you to do may be different than what he tells someone else to do.

And yet, they all seem to somehow have the exact same convictions and follow god exactly the same, despite this. :think:

I'm reading it as well. I have to say, I didn't take the above quoted info the same way. When the girls stated their parents told them they want each of them to follow God individually, I believe (as a Christian myself) that was a reference to the fact that being a Christian requires one to make a personal choice to follow Jesus. Yes, someone generally introduces you to faith/church/religion, but living that out in one's life requires a personal decision to do so. I believe that's what they were addressing.

As for stating that what God tells you to do might be different than what He tells another, and then pointing out that yet they somehow have the same convictions and follow Him exactly the same, that, too, is not surprising. Generally speaking, we are ALL indoctrinated with convictions and beliefs from our family of origin. The same goes for schools, no matter which type of school we attend. We may or may not continue to embrace such convictions, teachings, or beliefs in our own adult lives, but we are impacted in childhood just the same.

[ariel9]

Thank you for your wonderful book report. I too wonder about how they spend more time with 19 children than a set of parents can spend with one or two. All I have come up with is that Michelle tells a room full of children in her baby talk voice " Pretend it's only me and you in this room. We are spending precious time together in this season of life."

[ILoveJellybeans]

I feel really sorry for them :(

Jana's story about how she unwound all of the toilet paper as a toddler and was upset because she couldn't put it back out just sounds like another jewellery box thing, something we would see as a tiny thing and probably not remember, but to Jana it is something she is still able to recall and seems important. She must have been really afraid of what her parents might do, if that is still significant for her. I think its somewhat interesting how Jana has a lot of stories about insignificant sounding negative memories from her childhood. I bet she remembers that most because of the beating she got for it.

I think it is cruel for the parents to make the kids, even as teenagers, wear these disgusting frumpy outfits. They look like something an old fashioned toddler would wear. No wonder Jessa felt so bad around all the other little girls at the party, if they are all more worldly and talking about movies and stuff. She must have stuck out a lot with the perm and the really ugly clothing, and not knowing any of the references to pop culture the other kids knew. I wouldn't be surprised if the other kids had laughed at her too, kids can be mean sometimes. And there was nothing she could do about that, cause if she asked to wear normal clothes or watch movies, her parents probably would have shamed her for it. Also it seemed to have affected the way she thought about herself, thinking that it wasn't just the hair and weird clothing and then starting to criticise her features as well, maybe she felt ugly in those awful dresses, or was worrying about whether it is really the clothes that made her look ugly (she didn't though, she was a cute kid, but didn't feel like that at the time) or whether it was just the way she looked in general.

Im glad they are allowed to dress nicely now, it is cruel to deliberately dress a child in a way that makes them stand out, as it makes them a target for bullies. Sure, if a kid wants to wear a weird outfit, or wants to wear clothes and stuff with things on that are considered uncool by their peers, that's fine, be themselves, but a parent shouldn't force their child to dress in a way that would get them laughed at.

I did always wonder why people were okay with wearing a bikini in public but not wearing their underwear though....theyre the same thing but with different material. Id rather wear my underwear than one of those modest swimsuits though.

[alba]

I did always wonder why people were okay with wearing a bikini in public but not wearing their underwear though....theyre the same thing but with different material. Id rather wear my underwear than one of those modest swimsuits though.

Because it's different material :P

Well, sort of. It's the connotations of each thing. If you wear a lacy bra and panties outside, you're clearly wearing something that's meant to be worn under clothing. If you wear a string bikini, though, you're wearing something that's not. It's not about the skin being shown so much as the type of clothing, IMO. I'll wear a bikini in public before I go out in a dressing gown, even though it covers far more skin.

[FJismyheadship]

And theres a picture of Jana standing by the toilet roll crying! It was so sad!

[Toothfairy]

I feel really sorry for them :(

Jana's story about how she unwound all of the toilet paper as a toddler and was upset because she couldn't put it back out just sounds like another jewellery box thing, something we would see as a tiny thing and probably not remember, but to Jana it is something she is still able to recall and seems important. She must have been really afraid of what her parents might do, if that is still significant for her. I think its somewhat interesting how Jana has a lot of stories about insignificant sounding negative memories from her childhood. I bet she remembers that most because of the beating she got for it.

I think it is cruel for the parents to make the kids, even as teenagers, wear these disgusting frumpy outfits. They look like something an old fashioned toddler would wear. No wonder Jessa felt so bad around all the other little girls at the party, if they are all more worldly and talking about movies and stuff. She must have stuck out a lot with the perm and the really ugly clothing, and not knowing any of the references to pop culture the other kids knew. I wouldn't be surprised if the other kids had laughed at her too, kids can be mean sometimes. And there was nothing she could do about that, cause if she asked to wear normal clothes or watch movies, her parents probably would have shamed her for it. Also it seemed to have affected the way she thought about herself, thinking that it wasn't just the hair and weird clothing and then starting to criticise her features as well, maybe she felt ugly in those awful dresses, or was worrying about whether it is really the clothes that made her look ugly (she didn't though, she was a cute kid, but didn't feel like that at the time) or whether it was just the way she looked in general.

Im glad they are allowed to dress nicely now, it is cruel to deliberately dress a child in a way that makes them stand out, as it makes them a target for bullies. Sure, if a kid wants to wear a weird outfit, or wants to wear clothes and stuff with things on that are considered uncool by their peers, that's fine, be themselves, but a parent shouldn't force their child to dress in a way that would get them laughed at.

I did always wonder why people were okay with wearing a bikini in public but not wearing their underwear though....theyre the same thing but with different material. Id rather wear my underwear than one of those modest swimsuits though.

i feel so sad for this child. yes child in fundieland

[DGayle]

I'm reading it as well. I have to say, I didn't take the above quoted info the same way. When the girls stated their parents told them they want each of them to follow God individually, I believe (as a Christian myself) that was a reference to the fact that being a Christian requires one to make a personal choice to follow Jesus. Yes, someone generally introduces you to faith/church/religion, but living that out in one's life requires a personal decision to do so. I believe that's what they were addressing.

As for stating that what God tells you to do might be different than what He tells another, and then pointing out that yet they somehow have the same convictions and follow Him exactly the same, that, too, is not surprising. Generally speaking, we are ALL indoctrinated with convictions and beliefs from our family of origin. The same goes for schools, no matter which type of school we attend. We may or may not continue to embrace such convictions, teachings, or beliefs in our own adult lives, but we are impacted in childhood just the same.

What real choice to the girls have? None of them are really employable in the real word. All of hem have limited educations, and when any have started straying, off to Journey of the Heart to slap her back into line. Do you really think they'd accept one of the kids becoming an atheist because the girl chooses not to follow god? Of course not. There is no choice.

Those kids aren't following "what God tells them." They believe what they are indoctrinated with. Unlike the rest of us, a bunch of poorly-educated girls don't have many choices. They can't choose whether or not to fully embrace convictions when they know they'd be pretty much disowned. The MUST do as told. There is no choice for those girls.

[antwan]

What real choice to the girls have? None of them are really employable in the real word. All of hem have limited educations, and when any have started straying, off to Journey of the Heart to slap her back into line. Do you really think they'd accept one of the kids becoming an atheist because the girl chooses not to follow god? Of course not. There is no choice.

Those kids aren't following "what God tells them." They believe what they are indoctrinated with. Unlike the rest of us, a bunch of poorly-educated girls don't have many choices. They can't choose whether or not to fully embrace convictions when they know they'd be pretty much disowned. The MUST do as told. There is no choice for those girls.

I didn't say they are following what God tells them. Rather, I shared what I understood them to mean when they stated that God speaks to each one individually. But I don't blanketly agree with you that they have no opportunities. Our job force includes many people who received "unlimited" educations and a highschool diploma, only to be ill prepared for college, and thus working in a job that requires low skill level and provides low pay. I don't want to stir an education debate, but I do feel that all education has limits, based on numerous variables, and I do believe the Duggar children could function in entry level employment roles (at least), just as others from traditional schooling often do. Now, will they desire to do this? I highly doubt it, and I do think indoctrination is the reason for that. But can they? Are they prepared to do so? I personally believe they are.

I also think they could handle college courses (on an actual campus), but would not likely seek them. Homeschooling does not generally mean "limited education" or opportunity. It is but one variable that impacts one's future. My dd, for example, just got accepted to a private school with a rigorous admissions process, including academic testing, after being homeschooled for 8 years. She is one of 2 homeschoolers who will enter as a freshman. It comes down to taking advantage of opportunity, in my perspective, and that's where the Duggar children will likely hold back.

Btw, did Ma and Pa Keller shun their older kids who went the anti-fundie way? I'm sure the relationships are strained, but they WERE at Josh and Anna's wedding, so it doesn't seem to me that they were UNaccepted or totally disowned at that time (yes, I 've read all about the TLC document signing nightmare for Anna's sister and her dh, just for the record.)

[Georgiana]

I didn't say they are following what God tells them. Rather, I shared what I understood them to mean when they stated that God speaks to each one individually. But I don't blanketly agree with you that they have no opportunities. Our job force includes many people who received "unlimited" educations and a highschool diploma, only to be ill prepared for college, and thus working in a job that requires low skill level and provides low pay. I don't want to stir an education debate, but I do feel that all education has limits, based on numerous variables, and I do believe the Duggar children could function in entry level employment roles (at least), just as others from traditional schooling often do. Now, will they desire to do this? I highly doubt it, and I do think indoctrination is the reason for that. But can they? Are they prepared to do so? I personally believe they are.

I also think they could handle college courses (on an actual campus), but would not likely seek them. Homeschooling does not generally mean "limited education" or opportunity. It is but one variable that impacts one's future. My dd, for example, just got accepted to a private school with a rigorous admissions process, including academic testing, after being homeschooled for 8 years. She is one of 2 homeschoolers who will enter as a freshman. It comes down to taking advantage of opportunity, in my perspective, and that's where the Duggar children will likely hold back.

Btw, did Ma and Pa Keller shun their older kids who went the anti-fundie way? I'm sure the relationships are strained, but they WERE at Josh and Anna's wedding, so it doesn't seem to me that they were UNaccepted or totally disowned at that time (yes, I 've read all about the TLC document signing nightmare for Anna's sister and her dh, just for the record.)

The Keller children all see each other, regardless of ATI/non-ATI, but I don't recall that we've seen whether or not the non-ATI folks have a good relationship with their parents.

However, the Kellers are not the Duggars in that because of their lack of celebrity, the leaving of their children was quiet. Any Duggar who leaves is going to be big news, which will publicly humiliate JB and M. It's much harder to get over something that publicly shames you rather than something that happens quietly within the family, which is why I don't see the Duggars' response being as generous as the Kellers'.

[Childless]

I didn't say they are following what God tells them. Rather, I shared what I understood them to mean when they stated that God speaks to each one individually. But I don't blanketly agree with you that they have no opportunities. Our job force includes many people who received "unlimited" educations and a highschool diploma, only to be ill prepared for college, and thus working in a job that requires low skill level and provides low pay. I don't want to stir an education debate, but I do feel that all education has limits, based on numerous variables, and I do believe the Duggar children could function in entry level employment roles (at least), just as others from traditional schooling often do. Now, will they desire to do this? I highly doubt it, and I do think indoctrination is the reason for that. But can they? Are they prepared to do so? I personally believe they are.

I also think they could handle college courses (on an actual campus), but would not likely seek them. Homeschooling does not generally mean "limited education" or opportunity. It is but one variable that impacts one's future. My dd, for example, just got accepted to a private school with a rigorous admissions process, including academic testing, after being homeschooled for 8 years. She is one of 2 homeschoolers who will enter as a freshman. It comes down to taking advantage of opportunity, in my perspective, and that's where the Duggar children will likely hold back.

Btw, did Ma and Pa Keller shun their older kids who went the anti-fundie way? I'm sure the relationships are strained, but they WERE at Josh and Anna's wedding, so it doesn't seem to me that they were UNaccepted or totally disowned at that time (yes, I 've read all about the TLC document signing nightmare for Anna's sister and her dh, just for the record.)

I don't think anyone is saying ALL home schooled children are ill prepared for the real world, but I do agree that the Duggars are. Homeschooling, if done correctly, can produce a very educated individual. Homeschooling the way the Duggars do it produces a bunch of barely literate people who struggle to earn an adequate income as adults.

I totally believe the Duggar kids would have trouble coping with real jobs. Not a single one of them can keep a schedule. They're late everywhere they go and would never be able to deal with early mornings. A portion of them struggle with work ethic (has Josh ever worked hard a day in his life?) and I see a huge problem, especially with the male children, if any of them ever had a female boss. I can also see issues with professionalism in the work place since I doubt any of them could refrain from trying to convert all their co-workers to their belief system. No, the Duggar kids are not prepared to deal with the reality of being an adult in the secular world. Their parents have done them a huge disservice.

[snarkopolis]

Two thoughts---1. Even "low skilled" employment opportunities employ critical reasoning and thinking skills which none of the Duggarlings have demonstrated, nver mind the lack of work ethic, timeliness and ability to coexist alongside those who have nothing in common with you.

2. I am sad that a tree died so that this homage to control of women and children by uneducated, insecure males could be printed. :wtf: :angry-banghead:

[DGayle]

I didn't say they are following what God tells them. Rather, I shared what I understood them to mean when they stated that God speaks to each one individually. But I don't blanketly agree with you that they have no opportunities. Our job force includes many people who received "unlimited" educations and a highschool diploma, only to be ill prepared for college, and thus working in a job that requires low skill level and provides low pay. I don't want to stir an education debate, but I do feel that all education has limits, based on numerous variables, and I do believe the Duggar children could function in entry level employment roles (at least), just as others from traditional schooling often do. Now, will they desire to do this? I highly doubt it, and I do think indoctrination is the reason for that. But can they? Are they prepared to do so? I personally believe they are.

I also think they could handle college courses (on an actual campus), but would not likely seek them. Homeschooling does not generally mean "limited education" or opportunity. It is but one variable that impacts one's future. My dd, for example, just got accepted to a private school with a rigorous admissions process, including academic testing, after being homeschooled for 8 years. She is one of 2 homeschoolers who will enter as a freshman. It comes down to taking advantage of opportunity, in my perspective, and that's where the Duggar children will likely hold back.

Btw, did Ma and Pa Keller shun their older kids who went the anti-fundie way? I'm sure the relationships are strained, but they WERE at Josh and Anna's wedding, so it doesn't seem to me that they were UNaccepted or totally disowned at that time (yes, I 've read all about the TLC document signing nightmare for Anna's sister and her dh, just for the record.)

Who would hire girls who believe they can't be alone with a man in a country where almost all jobs mean working with people of all sexes, and possibly being along with them from time to time? They must remain under the "protection" of a man. Do you honestly think that their upbringing would allow them to work under a non-religious man, or woman for that matter? The Duggars in particular are not well-educated. They weren't raised with the skills to handle adversity.

Also I don't believe for a second you adequately homeschooled a child on your own if you somehow came to the conclusion that I said ALL homeschoolers are unprepared for live in the adult world. The educations the DUGGAR girls received is subpar.

If you were a manager and you had several people apply for a position, and one of then was 23, had never had a real job (raising your siblings doesn't count), and the only education she can cite is homeschooled by parents with no state testing to verify education, would YOU hire her over someone who got a GED or diploma, and who has a verifiable work history? Only if you new her or were a bad manager. The educations of those girls stopped far too early because they were needed to raise the younger ones.

Some of Anna's sisters and their parents don't have relationships. They were there for Anna. I don't know how on earth you're trying to use this as some sort of evidence of fundies never shunning kids who leave the fold.

[Jasmar]

I thought the Duggar teenagers all get GEDs.

[marmalade]

They used to get GEDs. In an old special that recently aired, I believe it was Jana who had a GED test book in a pile on a desk where she was sitting. At one point, it was noted that the four oldest had them. I'm not sure about what Jessa, Josiah, or Joseph actually "graduated" from. However, I presume they got GEDs, which in most states, tests out to the equivalent of 9th grade work. I don't think they test math past algebra, or English past basic 5-paragraph essay writing skills. I'm sure their computer program (are they still using Switched on Schoolhouse?) goes that far, but probably not much further. Could they learn geometry or more advanced math from a computer program if math isn't a specialty? I know I couldn't.

Regarding testing. They are also tested annually with state standardized tests. However, there is no requirement for homeschoolers to PASS them, IIRC, just be within two grade levels of where they should be based on age. They also don't receive their actual results.

[freejoyannatoo]

Speaking as a former homeschooling mother, the problem I see with the education the Duggar kids get, is that it is a) much too simple and b) much too Christian. (The much too Christian element is mostly to do with teaching Creationism as the truth and ignoring evolution, as far as I'm concerned. Having the Bible as the core of the curriculum doesn't strike me as too clever either).

I'm sure by 16 those kids are reasonably literate and have basic arithmetic skills. That's not enough in today's workforce, for many jobs. However, it doesn't stop the boys setting up their own little businesses and the girls becoming homemakers :angry-banghead: which is all that's required. In fact, anything beyond that would give them more opportunity to break away from the cult, so I'm guessing this is a deliberate ploy to prevent them from straying.

If Josiah, for example, wants to go to college (I'm picking him because he seems one of the brighter ones), would he actually be able to get a place anywhere on the basis of his current qualifications, whatever they are? Here in the UK, 16-year-olds take an exam called GCSE (General Certificate of Secondary Education) in a range of subjects. Is this equivalent to graduating high school? They generally have to pass at least five subjects (often more), including English and maths, to have any chance of further education. This includes options like trade apprenticeships, not just pre-univeristy academic schooling.

You also need your GCSEs to get all but the most menial of jobs. Needless to say, at the end of their home education my boys took their GCSEs. Several years later, they are both on track to graduate from university next summer.

I have known home educators who haven't done GCSE with their children and while that's their legal right, it seems to me that those kids are then very restricted in what they can do. A lot of them aim for a career in the arts - acting, painting, photography (Jinger anyone?) etc. When they fail at that, they fall back on waitressing or public assistance. That's not preparing them for life, in my view.

However. In fairness to the Duggars, I do think some at least of the boys will make a success of small businesses. Jim Bob has many failings, but he does strike me as an energetic and astute businessman. Even before the TLC gravy train came along, he and Michelle were doing pretty well with their rental properties. They were at least half way through building their dream home, and I agree with a poster on another thread who said that they would have finished it, even without TLC's help.

One of the girls referred to Josh and John David having their own businesses a while back. In Josh's case it was the car lot, and that has now fallen by the wayside as he undertakes his new "career" of course (and who knows if he ever made any money from it?). Meanwhile John is quietly working away, knocking stuff down with a bulldozer and setting fire to it for a living. According to Boob, he has already got himself a paid-for house out of this. I can see Joseph going the same way, and maybe Jason, who seems quite energetic and entrepreneurial.

It's the more creative, sensitive and dare I say, intelligent boys who I think are going to struggle. Can't see Josiah with a haulage business, somehow. And of course the girls - but they won't ever need to earn a living, will they :angry-banghead:

[alba]

If you were a manager and you had several people apply for a position, and one of then was 23, had never had a real job (raising your siblings doesn't count), and the only education she can cite is homeschooled by parents with no state testing to verify education, would YOU hire her over someone who got a GED or diploma, and who has a verifiable work history? Only if you new her or were a bad manager. The educations of those girls stopped far too early because they were needed to raise the younger ones.

This. I don't know what it's like in the US, but here in the UK it can be very difficult to get a minimum-wage job without prior experience in the same environment; I've seen job adverts for wait staff in cafés requiring two years' experience. Employers may be more lenient with young people because they don't have to pay them as much, but once you reach 22 it's very difficult to get your foot in the door.

I, personally, would consider hiring Jana Duggar if she applied, on the condition that TLC cameras stayed off the premises, in the hopes that by giving Jana some financial independence she could attain real independence. However, that's only the case because I know who she is and think she lives in a toxic environment.