Virtuous Daughters

[Coco]

If something would be a 100% deal-breaker, and if you think that there's a decent chance that random cute dude may not see eye to eye with you on the deal breaker issue, it might make sense to screen for it from the get-go.

I know people who do this, either online or when getting set up by a friend. For example, my divorced friends know that their kids are part of the package, and can't even consider anyone (other than a fun 1-night fling) who isn't local or who wouldn't be good step-parent material. They tend to look for partners among other single/divorced parents.

I could understand if someone who was 100% sure that the wanted to be child-free forever did something similar, and maybe indicated child-free preference in an online profile, socialized with others at child-free organizations, or looked for clues that someone may not want kids in their future.

Totally agree! That's why e-harmony was so fun back in the day - you could be sure all the dudes were kind of on the same page from the beginning. A friend and i joined together, but her restrictions were so narrow that she was only compatible with a few guys, and only went on one date with someone from the site. She was sad about it, but it was a good gentle way to help her realize her expectations were too high. (i didn't go on any dates, just phone calls, but it was a fun safe way for a fundie girl with zero dating experience to learn to relate).

[Lisa]

In the neolithic era of online dating (1998) I signed up for a service, answered a fairly involved questionnaire (40 questions, maybe?) and ended up marrying my top match. There's a lot to be said for making sure your core values are lined up, but at least half the stuff on the VD questionnaire is legalistic horse shit designed to weed out everybody, which is awful because she so desperately wants to be married.

This is from December 24, 2008:

I know for myself, there have been many a time that I have personally struggled and battled with being single for so long. You know, I had wanted a large family too (I come from a fairly large family and love every minute of it!), I LOVE children, and yet, I see my childbearing years slipping on past me. That was hard. Then, I would think about one day having a man to love, honor, and reverence and submit to. Oh, how I looked forward to that! The close friendship that can only take place between a husband and wife. Yes, I look forward to marriage.

In the same post she says she's in her mid-twenties, so she'd be about 31 or 32 now. Her life sounds empty and fussy at the same time.

[Jinger_Cat]

It's her take on the Jewish tzitzit.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzitzit

I see. Thank you. :|

This blog, perhaps more than any other I've read, illustrates how truly desperate and hopeless these 30-something SAHDs must feel.

Imagine, if you will, a scenario: You're a 30-ish year old fundie male searching for a godly helpmeet with whom to grow your dominion. Maybe you're widowed, maybe you're a new convert, it doesn't matter. Would you seek a 32 year-old woman with a few gray hairs and lines around her eyes, ideas of her own, and limited childbearing years, or would you prefer a fresh, pretty, impressionable 20 year-old with two decades of fertility to dedicate to filling your quiver? Most men wouldn't even bother with the questionnaire when there are plenty of more accessible prospects.

They wait patiently for Mr. Right, doing everything they're supposed to, only to be left to grow old with Mommy and Daddy. You won't convince me that many of them don't experience at least a little regret when they reach 40 and realize that it's just not going to happen. :(

[Lisa]

The SAH daughters remind me of the proverbial single gentlewomen of earlier centuries. They don't do anything as vulgar as work for a living - and have no money-making skills to speak of anyway. They live with their families or perhaps a single sister or cousin, scraping to keep body and soul together, still practicing for a way of life that isn't never going to materialize. Every year the smiles get tighter, the prospects grow slimmer, and the ladies get stranger and more constricted.

When Charlotte Bronte's friend, Mary Taylor, found herself in a similar position, she emigrated to New Zealand to start a new, free life. I don't think Virtuous Daughter would do anything to help herself. :cry:

[Coco]

The SAH daughters remind me of the proverbial single gentlewomen of earlier centuries. They don't do anything as vulgar as work for a living - and have no money-making skills to speak of anyway. They live with their families or perhaps a single sister or cousin, scraping to keep body and soul together, still practicing for a way of life that isn't never going to materialize. Every year the smiles get tighter, the prospects grow slimmer, and the ladies get stranger and more constricted.

When Charlotte Bronte's friend, Mary Taylor, found herself in a similar position, she emigrated to New Zealand to start a new, free life. I don't think Virtuous Daughter would do anything to help herself. :cry:

“I am determined that only the deepest love will induce me into matrimony. So... I shall end an old maid, and teach your ten children to embroider cushions and play their instruments very ill.â€

[anjulibai]

I see. Thank you. :|

This blog, perhaps more than any other I've read, illustrates how truly desperate and hopeless these 30-something SAHDs must feel.

Imagine, if you will, a scenario: You're a 30-ish year old fundie male searching for a godly helpmeet with whom to grow your dominion. Maybe you're widowed, maybe you're a new convert, it doesn't matter. Would you seek a 32 year-old woman with a few gray hairs and lines around her eyes, ideas of her own, and limited childbearing years, or would you prefer a fresh, pretty, impressionable 20 year-old with two decades of fertility to dedicate to filling your quiver? Most men wouldn't even bother with the questionnaire when there are plenty of more accessible prospects.

They wait patiently for Mr. Right, doing everything they're supposed to, only to be left to grow old with Mommy and Daddy. You won't convince me that many of them don't experience at least a little regret when they reach 40 and realize that it's just not going to happen. :(

It's certainly what Christopher Maxwell did. He was 31 when he married 22-24 year old Anna. She has many years of "fruitfulness" ahead of her. If he'd married a SAHD his own age (like his own sister is now), he'd likely end up with a much smaller quiver. Can't have that.

[lilith]

It's certainly what Christopher Maxwell did. He was 31 when he married 22-24 year old Anna. She has many years of "fruitfulness" ahead of her. If he'd married a SAHD his own age (like his own sister is now), he'd likely end up with a much smaller quiver. Can't have that.

It's not just that either. If a man marries a woman his own age, he wants her to act like a woman his own age - a woman with life experience and emotional maturity and the calmness, confidence and stability that grows in your 30s.

Samantha has none of that - she thinks and acts like a 16 year old - she and her parents have carefully kept her infantilised. But if a guy wants a naive woman with no life experience who has been waiting for a wedding ring before starting her adult life, he may as well marry a woman in her early twenties, in the expectation that by the time she's in her thirties she will act her age and be a genuine companion.

[Lisa]

I haven't read all the way through her blog yet. Has she ever courted? You'd think her parents would have set her up with a nice boy of their choosing 15 years ago.

[lilith]

I haven't read all the way through her blog yet. Has she ever courted? You'd think her parents would have set her up with a nice boy of their choosing 15 years ago.

No, she hasn't. She seems to be the eldest - she has younger married sisters and there are still young teens in the home, so maybe she was held back to care for them. I personally think that she's focused so much on being an innocent maiden that men truly don't view her as a woman they could marry - and one would have to be pretty attached to brave the questionnaire. Maybe men would do it for Jessa Duggar or the Botkinettes in their younger years, men have obviously braved it for her younger sisters, but she's so caught up in being a "virtuous" holier than thou stay at home daughter that she's never formed the beginnings of a connection to a man that may make him pursue her. And now there are far easier prospects, and more attractive ones too for a man set on filling his quiver.

At least the Georgians/Victorians recognised that unmarried adult women had sexual desires, even if they couched it in terms of nerves and neurosis. It blows my mind that Samantha is nearly as old as me and is expected by all around her to just not have a sexuality til her husband arrives to switch it on. That's over half her life suppressing an integral part of herself, a part that, according to her belief system, god made.

[GeoBQn]

Reading about SAHDs makes me think of a great-aunt of mine. She had a broken engagement in her 20's and didn't get married until her 50's. The marriage lasted only four years before her husband died of a heart attack. For almost her entire adult life, she lived at home with her parents (my great-grandparents.) She was an executive secretary for a prominent hospital, had lots of friends, traveled the world, and had her own winter apartment in Florida. In spite of what many people would consider a full life, she considered herself little more than a child because she continued to live in her mother's house. Once her mother died, she seriously considered moving to Florida permanently because she didn't want to be a burden on her family. My mom wrote her a letter begging her to stay. My great-aunt stayed, and I was very close with her. She was an inspiration to me, regardless of her marital status, while Samantha sounds like a sad cautionary tale.

[Lisa]

Her post on male sexuality is something else:

You dear girls may be wondering “But what does this have to do with us being single and not married yet?†Well, I want you to think about it. This is one area that is so very important, yet it is also an area that is extremely difficult in a man’s life…in the sense of it being such a need and how they are such visual beings. This world is so filled with pollution, and by that I mean women that’s pure intention is to make our men fall and stumble. What more important area in a man’s life should we be praying about and for? Should we not pray that God would keep them pure in every sense of the word? That God would blind them to those who would like to steal their hearts and make them fall (as in make it so that they are protected from such women)? What better time to start praying for our husband’s purity, than right now, that God would give him the strength to overcome temptation and wait for you?

Let’s bow our heads in prayer for them right now!

“Dear Heavenly Father,

I pray that you would be with our dear men out there. Father, I thank you for making them so very special in this area! I pray that You would be with them, guide them and direct them. Father, please protect them from the evils of this world…from the women that’s sole job is to hunt down our men and make them fall! Father, blind them to the wicked sites that are set before them day in and day out. Keep them both pure in mind and body. Bless them with the strength to save themselves for their wives, that one day they may give themselves fully to them.

And Father, I pray that You would be with all those wonderful women that are out there waiting and trying to serve You to the best of their ability. Father, keep them both pure in mind and body, too! Help them to prepare themselves to be Your precious son’s bride! Father, I also ask that you would help them to know how to dress in such a Godly fashion, that they may never be a stumbling block to their brothers in the Messiah. Father, teach us all how to dress in a glorifying way!â€

It's like the scene in Forty-Year-Old Virgin where Andy is playing cards with the guys and claims that a woman's breast feels like a bag of sand.

[djibouti]

I posted the original link to VD (fitting acronym, huh) and then went on vacation, I'm so glad other people are as fascinated by Samantha as I am!

The amount of frumpiness in the blog and the naivety when it comes to Judaism, men, dating, etc is such a trainwreck I can't help but stare...

Just wanted to share some favorite posts:

virtuousdaughters.com/2012/02/22/the-modesty-challenge-4/

- walking up stairs with uncovered legs (so shorts? capris?) is the same as being naked

virtuousdaughters.com/2012/02/19/the-modesty-challenge-1/

How is the whole being humble thing going for her?

virtuousdaughters.com/2012/04/20/q-as-shirts/

"I also wear long sleeves for the reason above, but for those of you who don’t have a problem wearing short, again, you must be very careful. Even if you don’t have a problem revealing your arm, sleeves have a tendency to show and reveal everything beneath the shirt. If you can raise your arm and see down your shirt, there’s a problem. Make sure your sleeves are tight against your arm and do not reveal anything you don’t want them to."

Nothing sexier than an armpit...

"Note to my younger readers! Please know that although this is what “Samantha†believes, you are under your father and you are commanded to obey and honor him. If your father believes that you are or are not to wear a veil, you are to follow him! Don’t be that rebellious woman I was talking about! Learn to cheerfully submit to your father, not me! I don’t want to ever hear that you are going against what your father or husband has put forth, simply because you read that I believed something differently. "

Something about this makes me feel very uncomfortable...

[GeoBQn]

Her recent post is about how she just got back from a celebration of "The Feast of Tabernacles." As in, the Jewish holiday of Sukkot--which is actually in September or October depending on the Hebrew calendar. Her family is celebrating it in July because her family "uses the Gregorian calendar for feasts."

My head hurts.

[fundiefan]

Her recent post is about how she just got back from a celebration of "The Feast of Tabernacles." As in, the Jewish holiday of Sukkot--which is actually in September or October depending on the Hebrew calendar. Her family is celebrating it in July because her family "uses the Gregorian calendar for feasts."

My head hurts.

I may have damaged my brain trying to figure that one out. I. Don't. Get. It. My brain is rebelling at the attempts.

[Lisa]

From the Modesty Challenge 4, linked by djibouti:

Let’s close in a word of prayer:

“Dear Heavenly Father,

I know that this is a very sensitive area. I know the world is trying to convince us that immodesty is really modest. They are trying to make bad, good and good, bad. But Father, we so deeply desire to please and honor you! Father, please give us the strength to stand up and follow you, even if it will mean us being a set apart people! Father, we want to be your set apart people! But Father, I know how hard this can be. I ask that you will bless us with the strength and the wisdom that we need. Help us know how we can dress in a modest and beautiful fashion, Father! Show us the way, please Father, show us the way! In all this, I pray in your Son’s Holy and Precious name, Yahshua! Amenâ€

Well. Holy crap. :pink-shock:

[Coco]

Eesh. She'll never marry if she doesn't come down off the holy pedestal. I don't know any sane guy who wouldn't want a wife who didn't want to be a little bit immodest sometimes. Sure cover up anything that would tempt a guy, out of respect for him, but don't act like you don't have any desire at all for the guy. You have to bat some eyes to catch the guys. :lol: Some flirting can be fun -- the innocent "i like you, let's be friends and then maybe more than friends if God wills" type of flirting.

[Lisa]

Flirting is immodest! As immodest as having the suggesting of a V in your lap when you wear a skirt!

She will never marry. Her idea of marriage is God pushing a guy willing to impregnate her with 25 children (she actually wants 25) into her arms while she's blogging or praying for men to have pure thoughts.

[anjulibai]

Her recent post is about how she just got back from a celebration of "The Feast of Tabernacles." As in, the Jewish holiday of Sukkot--which is actually in September or October depending on the Hebrew calendar. Her family is celebrating it in July because her family "uses the Gregorian calendar for feasts."

My head hurts.

That doesn't make any sense. What does the Gregorian calendar have to do with anything? Besides, as I understand it, Sukkot is an agricultural/harvest festival, it's supposed to be in the fall.

[anjulibai]

Okay, I think I kind of understand: Sukkot happens in the seventh month, and July is the seventh month.

But why would they use the Gregorian calendar for a Jewish holiday?

I also wonder if she knows that the Gregorian calendar is pagan in origin?

[Lisa]

Okay, I think I kind of understand: Sukkot happens in the seventh month, and July is the seventh month.

But why would they use the Gregorian calendar for a Jewish holiday?

I also wonder if she knows that the Gregorian calendar is pagan in origin?

I doubt if she does much general reading or paid a whole lot of attention in school (or was she homeschooled). Her appropriation of Jewish culture is so misguided and inappropriate that it cracks me up. Those blue ribbons... she might as well wear a war bonnet out of construction paper and call it an homage to the Cheyenne.

[acheronbeach]

We've seen fundie men take older brides. Like regular secular men, I think a lot of them would seriously consider a woman who was young-looking and stylish. Wasn't Cleve's wife Lise a bit older?

Not to mention the guys who fall for their female friends (Chancey, Tsantles) and call it courtship.

The thing is, Samantha doesn't have either going for her.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Okay, I think I kind of understand: Sukkot happens in the seventh month, and July is the seventh month.

But why would they use the Gregorian calendar for a Jewish holiday?

I also wonder if she knows that the Gregorian calendar is pagan in origin?

At some point, the stupid is so strong that it becomes more hilarious than offensive. Celebrating a harvest festival in July is just that kind of stupid.

From my POV, if you aren't Jewish and if it's July, it's not a sukkah - you are just sitting in a leaky backyard hut.

[fiery redhead]

these people need to learn how to use a quotation mark

LOL why is video in all caps and capitalized? Maybe they think it is some sort of entity that causes demonic "oppression"

I actually have to stop with these because its like every other one has scare quotes

AND HOLY SHIT AT THE RACISM

[GeoBQn]

At some point, the stupid is so strong that it becomes more hilarious than offensive. Celebrating a harvest festival in July is just that kind of stupid.

From my POV, if you aren't Jewish and if it's July, it's not a sukkah - you are just sitting in a leaky backyard hut.

And by this logic, they'd be celebrating Passover in January. Even if it snowed in Chicago this year on the first night, Passover is NOT a winter holiday!

[anjulibai]

Lisa, 2xx1xy1JD, I agree it is so bad that it's funny, but it also seems really sad to me. She's just so ignorant, it's awful.