Crushing your daughter's dreams in just a few simple steps

[Guest]

What bothers me about this is the fact that the parents made their decision, in part, because they had always said their girls would never go to college. People who cling so tightly to previously held beliefs with no intention of ever rethinking them scare me.

I'm not a mother, but my significant other and I have both studied at state colleges, and are both expecting to obtain advanced degrees in our fields. Education has been our #1 priority since we've met, which is why we're not married and won't have children for a long while. When we talk about kids, we can't imagine allowing any of them to forego college. Especially with me being a teacher, it is our most deeply held expectation for our children. However, if we were to have a child who, say, had spent his or her whole life pursuing hair and makeup, the military, etc, I can't imagine that not changing our beliefs on the matter.

It shows that their parenting is focused on them, rather than their children.

[DGayle]

No, not all smart girls go to college. Some go to trade schools, start businesses, or decide to work their way up from the bottom. The important thing is that the girl should be the one to decide. They manipulate theirs into saying no college. Can you imagine the guilt trip Haley must have been give? "Fine, you can go if you want, even if we lose the house to pay for it."

[Mama Mia]

I don't see any point in pressuring a child to go to college if it's not what they really want or need, but to take a girl who wants to go, for the sheer love of learning, and squash that out of her....that's just so sad! Even if she was a convinced as her parents that she didn't want to work outside the home-- so what? She could go to college and learn all sorts of interesting things, as well as things that would help her to be a great mother and homemaker. Even sticking to the skills her mother mentioned --There are tons of courses in art that would be useful for home decorating, child development that would help her to be a good mother, literature, history, math and science and educational theory to homeschool, and tons of alternative medicine and nutrition courses.

Of course it is more expensive to do it through college, and many people do end up with crippling debt-- but if she really, really loves learning at least looking into options and attending community college should be manageable.

[jezziebezzie]

Oh my God. This made me heartsick. That poor kid. All those poor Fundie kids & their fucked up 'rents.

I'm pretty sure she'll never post it in a squidzillion years, but I HAD to reply. Since it won't see light o' day on her blog, thought I'd post it here just to vent my guts.

My reply to Not All Dogs Go To ... Not All Smart Girls Go To College -

"But we had previously committed that we were not sending our daughters off to college."

I'm curious to know if you plan to send your Sons off for any additional matriculation beyond homeschooling? Or is it just the females in your family?

I will admit that while a Christian, I have many more secular views than you do, but reading this post - in the world that I live - is very troubling.

You make it sound as though this decision was ultimately your daughter's to make, but if you held belief that girls have no place in college for her whole life then she would have known what decision was expected from a "sweet" girl when it was put in front of her!

I suspect that the agony of having this 'carrot' dangled in front of her have EVERYTHING to do with the Health Issues you mention in your "meet the family" section.

You speak of her intelligence ... and the very legitimate reality of high tuition costs, but if there was SERIOUS consideration being given to this poor child going to College, then surely someone would have looked into Scholarships, Grants & Bursaries for her? That would have negated 1/2 of your argument.

And if what you write on your blog is true, then she is a very decent, good and well-raised young lady. So if you did your job as a parent correctly, then there should be no worry at all about how she would handle herself in a more secular environment. That takes care of most of the rest of your argument.

So, respectfully, I ask what is the REAL issue that you decide to retain such control and authority over the lives of your ADULT daughters?

It seems to me very cruel that you do not allow your children the same freedom of choice that you were allowed. You CHOSE as an adult - freely -to live the pious Christian life that you currently do. And it seems to have worked very well for you. No dispute. But your children were not given any choices or freedoms to make those decisions.

If what you write on your blog is to be believed, it sounds like you have raised them well & with strong faith and morals. Why shouldn't they be given the latitude & freedom as adults to spread their wings now with the foundation you say you gave them?

You write this like you deserve kudos, but in reality it's one of the most depressing things I've come across in a very long time. How will such an intelligent girl be satisfied with a life of cooking & part time piano lessons when she could be contributing so much more to the world in a meaningful way?

Wouldn't God want her living to her full potential? Isn't that why He gave her such intelligence in the first place? I think you make a mockery of Him by allowing that child to waste her obvious gifts!"

.....ahhhh, I feel a teensy bit better now & I totally dig the view from the moral high ground!

[twin2]

Every time I see a thread about treasures from a shoebox, it brings up the bad memory of the worst post I have ever read on a fundie blog, the Covenant Ceremony. How can these people not see how truly gross and inappropriate this is. Ugh. It is basically a marriage ceremony between a dad and his daughter.

treasuresfromashoebox.blogspot.com/2012/07/haleys-covenant-ceremony.html

[MamaJunebug]

Their virtuous SAHDs are status symbols for these people.

No more and no less than a Mercedes is a status symbol for someone in the yuppie subdivision down the road.

It is all about what THEY have accomplished.

News to them: you're supposed to use things, and love people.

In that way, the Mercedes owners have miles of moral high ground.

[twin2]

Their virtuous SAHDs are status symbols for these people.

No more and no less than a Mercedes is a status symbol for someone in the yuppie subdivision down the road.

It is all about what THEY have accomplished.

News to them: you're supposed to use things, and love people.

In that way, the Mercedes owners have miles of moral high ground.

You're right. Fundies do seem to have a this "one-upsmanship" thing going on. For example, between the Bateses and the Duggars. When Josh D got engaged Jimbo was like this will be a "no being alone and no kissing". Then one Zach B got engaged Gilly had to one-up him with "yeah all that AND NO TOUCHING!" Clearly that makes the Bateses more holy than the Duggars.

[dairyfreelife]

No, not all smart girls go to college. Some go to trade schools, start businesses, or decide to work their way up from the bottom. The important thing is that the girl should be the one to decide. They manipulate theirs into saying no college. Can you imagine the guilt trip Haley must have been give? "Fine, you can go if you want, even if we lose the house to pay for it."

Oh, no doubt. That Haley decided it on her own is very unlikely. I see her on Reagan's blog about his universities are evil post as if she is trying to use his posts to semi-pat herself on the back for not going. Oh, Reagan Ramm, he's just as immature as Haley and so pathetic in his attempts to put school and society down. Nice try you all. Age a few more years and then talk when you aren't so green.

[feministxtian]

stupid bitch actually approved my comment!!!

AnonymousSaturday, July 12, 2014 12:06:00 PM

I don't know about that four years of useless information. I went to college, got a very useful and employable degree (BSME) and am VERY glad I have it and have kept myself in the workforce. I am presently going through a separation and divorce due to my soon to be X husband flipping out. beating me up and attempting to destroy our home. Without my degree and education I'd be living in the streets.

But...she's a good Christian girl who will eventually marry a good Christian man and nothing like this would ever happen to her, right?

[Janes Heir]

Personally I am unsure I ever want to have children (partly because of health issues*) and even less understand the idea that they must be had in the early 20s. However, I understand that many gifted women do have a deep longing and love for children. As a feminist I believe women who combine motherhood and "outside" vocations should be supported and celebrated. I believe all children deserve loads of love and affection and attention from their parents or guardians, but with married couples that nurture should come mutually from both parents. (This is not to say single mothers or same sex couples are in any way inferior parents. Just that fundies conceive of nurture as primarily women's domain, and I believe it is the domain of both genders, and all guardians.) So, in my comment I decided to address not the anti-intellectualism about college, but the underlying idea that women with careers care less about children. And I used a conservative (though not fundie) Christian woman as an example. Here's my comment:

" I'd suggest you are creating a false dichotomy between nurturing Christian motherhood and an academic career. Your daughter's talents remind me of homeschooling mother and writer Dr. Susan Wise Bauer. She was able to receive a full scholarship for college which she finished at an accelerated rate. She met her future-husband in seminary, married, had four or five children while writing novels and home-education curricula. She regards the spiritual, emotional, physical and intellectual nurture of her children paramount (hence homeschooling) yet also writes and teaches college. She is able to do this because her husband -- a minister -- supervises the children during one half of the day while she does her academic work. I'd like to humbly suggest that rather than telling your daughter there is only one way to show love and respect for family, she seeks a marriage of mutual attentiveness both to the individuals' vocations and the nurture of family. "

*I haven't read more on the blog than this post and don't know what the young lady's health issues are... but why don't they take her health issues as an indication from God that she should not rush to have children? Rhetorical question. I know she can only be saved by childbirth... uh, I mean by grace through faith. :whistle:

[Toothfairy]

Fundies are scared their children might be smarter and more successful than them.

[moodygirl86]

Fundies are scared their children might be smarter and more successful than them.

I think you hit the nail on the head, Toothfairy!

[leftcoastmama]

Interesting that she writes "our vision" instead of " God's vision" isn't this supposedly all about serving God?

According to fundies all these things come from God. Why does it never occur to these people that their daughters' brains and smarts are God given and maybe just maybe God wants them to share their smarts with the world.

There are ways to go to college without acquiring huge amounts of debt. So sad for Haley and the rest of the young ladies like her.

[ladyaudley]

I've commented about Clown college. Still better than nothing. Poor Hayley.

I wonder what happened with the Bring Grandma Home project. It seems like a*hole Terry was against it from the start and found some way to make sure it didn't work out in the end. I feel so sad for Cheryl, who has built her life around a manipulating, controlling, cheating ass of a man. Ugh.

ETA: she's fairly open with her comments policy. " As I realize that not everyone will agree with the way we choose to live our lives, I will allow negative comments, as long as they are respectful."

[Extricated]

Fundies are scared their children might be smarter and more successful than them.

No. They're afraid that despite all of their careful upbringing, their children will choose to live differently. If their child is successful, despite their upbringing, the parents will brag to everyone they know about how they did it right. If the child isn't successful, they'll accept it as a challenge to be overcome, or a test from God.

The fear is "worldliness" and they will keep their girls, and often boys, as far from it as they can for as long as they can. The less unchaperoned exposure to "outsiders" before they're married to another fundy (who will "keep them in check") and settled in a nice likeminded church, the better.

[roddma]

For me, I enjoy being a childless at home wife. I vowed no kid of mine would ever be put in daycare or go to a sitter.I saw the struggles of my parents mostly my mother trying to work and juggle kids. I recall almost hating feminism as a young adult. However, I finally grew a brain. I think Fundies live in some kind of 1950s(more like 1850s) fantasy world. Today, it is almost impossible to live on one income especially with their mindset of having big broods. They never think hat happens if the husband suddenly isn't able to work and the wife isn't allowed to work an outside job. If they don't like college as Dgayle says there are trade schools. No college isn't for everyone, but these poor girls have no choice what to do with their lives.

[Jana814]

Fundies are scared their children might be smarter and more successful than them.

Yes they are! They r also afraid that if they go become "part of the world" they would enjoy it.

[jezziebezzie]

Oh, no doubt. That Haley decided it on her own is very unlikely. I see her on Reagan's blog about his universities are evil post as if she is trying to use his posts to semi-pat herself on the back for not going. Oh, Reagan Ramm, he's just as immature as Haley and so pathetic in his attempts to put school and society down. Nice try you all. Age a few more years and then talk when you aren't so green.

Reagan Ramm is male? Whoopsie! Shoebox lady did post my comment & I got a mouthful back in response from RR. I assumed it was another Fundie Mom when I replied. Although I think I was less "respectful" in my reply, so not likely to see the light. My little paragraph about daddy's affairs & their literal "come to Jesus" moment and the kids subsequent lack of choice & freedom probably not a winner for me...but felt damned good to type it!

As did my PS with a link to some Christian College with a Music Program & Piano Scholarships and even a degree in some such nonsense called "Worship Arts"...

[lemondrop]

Where are these girls supposed to meet a husband they have anything in common with, if not in university, at work, or you know, outside the house somewhere? Or does getting along with one's spouse completely not matter to these folks?

I am currently a stay at home mom to two very young children. I also have a masters degree in math and had a very rewarding career before kids. Somehow it didn't prevent me from becoming a pretty darn good cook, a decent housekeeper, or successful at keeping the kids alive and well. In fact, grad school is actually where I met my husband, and where I learned to bake and cook for a crowd (by way of creative procrastination and appreciative housemates). But then we've only had the two kids, and are raising them in a horrible godless household, so there's that. :/ I don't know, maybe if I had a PhD in Godly SAHD, my floors would be the kind of spotless that we unsaved worldly scum can't even imagine? (Or something?)

[ariel9]

1.) I have all of those skills and I attended college.

2.) I hope she gets a scholarship and gives them all the finger.

[Janes Heir]

So now Cheryl is replying to everone, reiterating that it was Haley's choice. It can't really be her choice when she knows her family think college is about studying "useless information" and you can't be a good mother and an educated woman.

[alba]

Because clearly a woman responsible for educating the next generation shouldn't be educated herself :roll:

[scc12]

the basic MO of controlling,abusive ppl is that they first have to crush the self esteem of the person whom they seek to control.then they crush the dreams of that person,making them feel useless to all but what they desire for them.spot on here.