Crushing your daughter's dreams in just a few simple steps

[Koala]

treasuresfromashoebox.blogspot.com/2014/07/not-all-smart-girls-go-to-college.html

Mrs. Crump is a competent, experienced piano teacher who has had the honor through the years of watching many of her students perform at Carnegie Hall before heading off to college to pursue various degrees in music. I didn't doubt the validity of her words. Nor did we take them lightly.

But we had previously committed that we were not sending our daughters off to college. Some of our reasoning includes:

Rather than spending 4 years in diligent study of useless information that will not benefit their lives in any way, we view these young adult years as an opportunity for our daughters to pursue necessary life skills, such as cooking, home decorating, childcare, hospitality, and alternative health care.

Around the time our daughter would desire to settle down, marry, and begin a family, she would have just graduated college and be strapped with a load of debt. We feel it would be wrong to carry this heavy load into marriage, plus she would have to delay having babies in order to generate an income to repay the student loans.

After spending all that time and money on a college education, she would feel obligated to put her degree to use. Again, this would promote either delaying children or being a working mom, which is not in our vision for any of our daughters.

We have no desire to spend 18 years of our daughter's life discipling her to be a follower of Christ, only to send her off to a morally corrupt institution that is known to deliberately undermine the Christian faith at best.

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

Haley has always been very studious. She learned to read at the age of four and by the age of six, was reading at 4th and 5th grade level. She is the only one of the older girls who actually enjoyed (rather than endured) math. She enjoys writing fiction (especially adventure novels centering on WWII). Research and study seems to be her "thing". It would only stand to reason that she would want to further her academic education.

We openly discussed the possibilities with Haley. At first, she was understandably excited about the prospect as we began checking into colleges, the cost of tuition, and all the logistics. As the reality of the magnitude of what we were considering began to set in, the excitement waned.

After exploring her options, examining and discussing the logistics, and praying about it, she came to us one day just before her graduation party in June 2013. "I've decided that the bottom line is, this just doesn't fit into my vision for my life. My ultimate goal is to be a wife and homeschooling mother." She decided that she would most likely enjoy teaching piano on the side, to help support her husband's income, but she did not want to pursue a career in music.

She explained all of this to her guests at the graduation party.

Great. They managed to convince her that her long term goals were mutually exclusive with a wonderful opportunity to further her education and develop her skills in music. Because decorating. And of course she needs to be under the authority of he who shoots dogs. :angry-steamingears: :angry-steamingears:

[ILoveJellybeans]

Poor Haley :( So smart and academic, yet her parents didn't encourage her dreams and encouraged her to just settle with being a stay at home mom.

[louisa05]

Grr...

My college roommate is a stay at home mother who homeschools her seven children (no, not QF, and they are Methodists not fundies).

She also has a BA in elementary education with a math minor, and a Bachelor's of Music degree in piano pedagogy. Two evenings a week, she gives piano lessons for roughly $20 per half hour and makes extra money to support her family. She is also fully qualified to teach her own kids at home, has work experience of her own, and understands what it means to be independent.

And all of that makes her a better parent and a better home school educator.

[Rescinded and Mended]

Oh, of course not. There's absolutely no reason why Haley should ever pursue higher education. It's not like she should have the option to choose it for herself so that she can be self-supporting even if she never wants to marry. And it's not like the Perfect Godly Husbandtm could ever turn out to be abusive or walk out on her or die. And it's definitely not as if she owes it to her future unborn children to become educated so that she can care for them in case any of these things happen.

No, it's far better and far more Godly for Haley to stay at home, waiting hand and foot on the father who murdered their family dog, praying for the day that Prince Charming shows up. :angry-banghead:

[nokidsmom]

We firmly believe that she is well on her way to being all that God has intended for her to be.

No, she is well on her way to being what her parents intend for her to be.

It's not enough to limit choices for their daughter while she is under their own roof, but they also want to limit her future for when she is not under their own roof. This is completely wrong and seems to be a real travesty in this case, as the daughter looks to be very smart and talented. Mrs. Crump must be quietly wringing her hands.

[Chowder Head]

What shame, that a bright and talent woman will be held back to learn to "clean". BTW what is this about her father killing the family dog/

[GeoBQn]

Cheryl had convinced Haley not to take the SATs. Haley is the one who has been going through a barrage of mysterious health issues, which started after she "graduated" . . .

[2xx1xy1JD]

It's not about the practical aspects of tuition. If it was, she could look into scholarships and bursuries, especially since the family is so large. The Browns talk about doing that on Sister Wives (not that I'm saying polygamy is great, just saying that it's an example of a large, baby-loving family that still makes some effort to get the girls an education). There are community/junior colleges, online schools, etc.

No, it's about keeping her horizons as narrow as possible, to prevent her from ever deviating from her parents' path. Cheryl could have said, "I wasn't sheltered at all while growing up and I made mistakes, but I still learned and choose this lifestyle so I have faith that my children can freely choose it as well." Instead, she does the opposite. Cheryl and Terry got to find their own spiritual path, but their kids will never have that freedom, and won't see any realistic way of breaking free prior to marriage.

[Rescinded and Mended]

What shame, that a bright and talent woman will be held back to learn to "clean". BTW what is this about her father killing the family dog/

Cheryl had a dog that she loved. A goat on the farm was killed, this particular dog was blamed, and her husband shot the dog behind her back and against her wishes.

But he's still the awesomest husband and dad ever, according to Cheryl, even though he cheated on her constantly before they found God. :roll: There's a really squicky post about their daughters having a purity ceremony with the dad, too.

Here's the dog post:

treasuresfromashoebox.blogspot.com/2012/03/getting-past-dog.html

[Koala]

Cheryl had a dog that she loved. A goat on the farm was killed, this particular dog was blamed, and her husband shot the dog behind her back and against her wishes.

But he's still the awesomest husband and dad ever, according to Cheryl, even though he cheated on her constantly before they found God. :roll: There's a really squicky post about their daughters having a purity ceremony with the dad, too.

Here's the dog post:

treasuresfromashoebox.blogspot.com/2012/03/getting-past-dog.html

I am almost certain Cheryl has cleaned that particular post up so Terri doesn't look as bad (not that it worked)

[Rescinded and Mended]

Now that I didn't know. Makes you wonder what else she's covering up and what lenths she'll go to in protecing Terri.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Depressing way to start my day.

[docmom]

"Rather than spending 4 years in diligent study of useless information that will not benefit their lives in any way, we view these young adult years as an opportunity for our daughters to pursue necessary life skills, such as cooking, home decorating, childcare, hospitality, and alternative health care."

I spent way more than 4 years in diligent study of useful information and along the way still managed to cook, decorate my home, take care of children and be hospitable to guests. I don't do "alternative" health care, opting for, you know, real medicine, but the point is getting an education and having a meaningful career in no way prevents you from having a happy marriage, children and a nice hospitable home. This is what bugs me most about these fundie messages. They say it's one or the other and it's not, it's just not.

[polecat]

which is not in our vision for any of our daughters.

Well, that doesn't really matter, does it? When you have kids, you can't control them. You can teach them, guide them and help them along the way, but you cannot control them or decide who they are going to be. Children have their own distinct personalities early in life.

Here's something that makes no sense to me: Undoubtedly these people are prolife and probably rabidly so, but they cannot conceive that their daughters exist apart from them. Their kids are merely an extension of themselves without any independent thought, personal beliefs or private emotions. They only exist to bring "glory" and "honor" to their parents.

My heart breaks for kids who live like this.

[Jessica]

What has she been doing all those years if by 22 she hasn't learned how to cook a few basic meals ro clean up after herself? For pete's sake, at 19 I was working 35 hours a week, taking college classes, was very active in my singles ward activities (almost every night of the week!), and I still somehow managed to figure out how to become a really great cook and do laundry on my own. It's so important that these girls learn to be home makers, yet most of them can't cook a meal that doesn't involve "dump chicken breasts, 1 can of creamy soup, 1 bag frozen veggies, and 1 cup rice in crockpot".

Also, if she's an accomplished musician, why can't she teach lessons and use the money she makes to pay for college? Why can't she go to a little community college? That's what I did and I paid for it all myself in cash, with no debt.

[Want More Babies]

I need to send this to my daughter. She is away at college, pursuing her dreams. She has an apartment (we are paying) so she is learning about housekeeping and hospitality. As for learning about children, she is working this summer as a nanny.

How heartbreaking for this girl. :cry:

[Joan of Snarc]

we view these young adult years as an opportunity for our daughters to pursue necessary life skills, such as cooking, home decorating, childcare, hospitality, and alternative health care.

Home decorating, hospitality and alternative health care are necessary life skills?

:lol:

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I use my degree every day. It's served me well. And the classes I took in college enriched my life immensely. Gaining knowledge is so satisfying. I could never be an anti-education fundie -- or Republican.

[twin2]

Yeah, there is absolutely NOTHING that she could learn at college to make her a better at homeschooling her kids... :roll:

[Chowder Head]

Cheryl had a dog that she loved. A goat on the farm was killed, this particular dog was blamed, and her husband shot the dog behind her back and against her wishes.

But he's still the awesomest husband and dad ever, according to Cheryl, even though he cheated on her constantly before they found God. :roll: There's a really squicky post about their daughters having a purity ceremony with the dad, too.

Here's the dog post:

treasuresfromashoebox.blogspot.com/2012/03/getting-past-dog.html

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: no surer way to piss me off is to hurt an animal because you can. A thought to chew on,

- 71% of pet-owning women entering women’s shelters reported that their batterer had injured, maimed, killed or threatened family pets for revenge or to psychologically control victims

- 68% of battered women reported violence towards their animals. 87% of these incidents occurred in the presence of the women, and 75% in the presence of the children, to psychologically control and coerce them.

http://www.americanhumane.org/interacti ... lence.html

[samurai_sarah]

"Useless information"???

If there is one thing I believe in, besides Duct tape, it's information. You never know when something might come in handy. I loathed physics classes in school. Same with chemistry. Both have come in handy, as an adult. No such thing as "useless information".

[twin2]

Why is "home decorating" considered a necessary life skill?

And I agree, if they need to forgo college/job whatnot to learn how to cook, the fair maidens should be whipping up beef wellington, quiche, or paella for dinner instead of tater-tot casserole, bean burritos and pizza bread.

[acheronbeach]

Wow. Cheryl's pic on her blog looks utterly miserable. Why did she choose that one?

[TrueRebel1]

It's not about the practical aspects of tuition. If it was, she could look into scholarships and bursuries, especially since the family is so large. The Browns talk about doing that on Sister Wives (not that I'm saying polygamy is great, just saying that it's an example of a large, baby-loving family that still makes some effort to get the girls an education). There are community/junior colleges, online schools, etc.

No, it's about keeping her horizons as narrow as possible, to prevent her from ever deviating from her parents' path. Cheryl could have said, "I wasn't sheltered at all while growing up and I made mistakes, but I still learned and choose this lifestyle so I have faith that my children can freely choose it as well." Instead, she does the opposite. Cheryl and Terry got to find their own spiritual path, but their kids will never have that freedom, and won't see any realistic way of breaking free prior to marriage.

Forgive me if this has been said already, but if these people (well, fundies in general) really believe that the husband is the leader, then choosing for their daughter to not attend college is just as damaging to the future marriage as letting her pursue any other dreams or paths. Because just as you said, her parents got to make their mistakes, figure out what they wanted to change, and build their own life together; shouldn't the daughter and her husband have this right also? If Haley's future husband is going to be the leader in their relationship, then who cares what she's been doing in her single life, because maybe her husband will dictate that she have a job, or finish her college education, or who knows what! I have to laugh, because as much as these folks, and women like Lori Alexander, want to "submit" to their headships and be the under-dog homemaker, they are actually ruling everything by putting down the "law" that their daughters can only do one thing with their single life (learn to be a wife and homemaker)...which means that they are forcing the man their daughter marries to ONLY let her be a mom and homemaker...instead of leaving the options open and seeing what the husband decides his wife should do. My mind hurts just trying to understand this faulty logic!

[GeoBQn]

The part about "useless information" hits me hard. I got my BA and MA in theatre, which is often derided with other arts as being "useless." I will be honest--I am not currently working in theatre (though theatre lead me to become interested in nonprofit work in general). A large portion of the people I went to school with have switched to insurance sales, medical jobs, or other more lucrative and steady work (and that includes the PhDs.)

What does that matter? Probably most people end up doing work that doesn't perfectly matched what they studied, and the road to happiness and success isn't always linear. Some careers require specific degrees, but most don't. College students aren't just learning specific subjects. They learn how to think critically, structure arguments, work with and under different types of people, manage their time, motivate themselves. These are skills that are necessary for all jobs and for SAHMs. As long as students are learning this, it doesn't matter if they are majoring in Physics, Russian Literature, or Underwater Basket Weaving. They might as well study something they like.

(Obviously, young people can learn these skills by working straight out of high school--another path Cheryl has closed off.)

[browngrl]

Like so many others I have somehow managed to get an education, work and still have been able to learn homemaking skills. It is not so very surprising. When there is an expectation that a woman has the ability to do all these things there is a much greater chance that she WILL be able to do these things.

Fundie girls are not so lucky. They don't hear "you can". They hear "you can't" everyday from the day they are born. So is it any surprise that they can't cook more than the basics? Can't handle job + children. Can't manage to keep themselves safe without protection. Can't make big decisions. It goes on and on.

I'm sure fundies can come up with all sorts of reasons for believing what they do but as far as I am concerned it comes down to this: control. Don't want your daughter to run? Cripple her. She won't be going anywhere soon.