Side hugs?

[Mrs.Right]

*If this question has already been asked, please link me to it.

 

I was over looking at the Bates blog and noticed the (at the time) engaged couple in the Bates family had pictures of them hugging normal (full frontal). Is it me or are the Bates a little less manic about side hugs being the only hugging allowed?

[HereticHick]

Yes, we've discussed this in several Bates family threads. The Bates do seem less manic about hugging (and a few other things)--Alyssa did full frontal hugging of her beau when they started courting. And they admit to "dating with a purpose" (basically dating, but with chaperones) before the courtship stage. And the Bates girls have been flashing their shoulders more and more.

[actuallyjessica]

*If this question has already been asked, please link me to it.

I was over looking at the Bates blog and noticed the (at the time) engaged couple in the Bates family had pictures of them hugging normal (full frontal). Is it me or are the Bates a little less manic about side hugs being the only hugging allowed? :think:

it was only a couple of hours ago i did the same thing, LOL. because i couldn't remember who did what. alyssa was definitely the most hands-on.

from what we've seen, michael and brandon have held hands during their courtship; so did zach and whitney, however it looks like they may have waited until they were engaged to (frontal) hug; erin and chad i don't recall seeing them do anything but sidehug in their courtship. though, in their engagement seemed to have held hands.

i like that kelly has stated that it's up to each couple to set their own rules, and that they 'meet and talk often about any temptations, goals, changes, etc'. it clearly rings true, it's not something they just spit-out like the duggars do "ohhhhh... yes, they have so much freedom!"

the bates' should be on tv, not the duggars. though i've only seen 2 episodes of their show, i enjoyed it a lot more. i feel like they're just a much more loveable family who seem to really care for eachother. unlike the duggars who mostly seem distant and cold toward one another.

[acat7]

it was only a couple of hours ago i did the same thing, LOL. because i couldn't remember who did what. alyssa was definitely the most hands-on.

from what we've seen, michael and brandon have held hands during their courtship; so did zach and whitney, however it looks like they may have waited until they were engaged to (frontal) hug; erin and chad i don't recall seeing them do anything but sidehug in their courtship. though, in their engagement seemed to have held hands.

i like that kelly has stated that it's up to each couple to set their own rules, and that they 'meet and talk often about any temptations, goals, changes, etc'. it clearly rings true, it's not something they just spit-out like the duggars do "ohhhhh... yes, they have so much freedom!"

the bates' should be on tv, not the duggars. though i've only seen 2 episodes of their show, i enjoyed it a lot more. i feel like they're just a much more loveable family who seem to really care for eachother. unlike the duggars who mostly seem distant and cold toward one another.

I honestly think that the more lax, close and loving relationship that the Bates seem to have over the Duggars stems 100% from Kelly Bates being a more confident woman than Michelle Duggar. Kelly didn't court, but seems perfectly content with the way their relationship started and manifested. Whereas Michelle dated other boys, quite possibly had her heart broken, and is therefore way more intense on following courtship rules to a T. If she fell through and got hurt before Jim Bob even after she was a Christian- how can she trust her kids not to do the same? (If you recall, she still dated her pre-Jim Bob boyfriend after converting. Her Christian counselor is the one who told her to break it off and trust God because he wasnt religious. I imagine he must have said hurtful things to her for breaking it off as teenage insecure boys often do). Kelly attended college, so she naturally wouldn't feel threatened by higher education as long as she can ensure that the morals surrounding her children are in line with her own- hence Crown College. I don't think Michelle or JB would ever be okay with college, even the most strict, conservative college in the world simply for the reason that their children would then be better educated than they are. I also find Kelly and Gil to be a lot more well spoken if you don't let the thick Appalachian accent cloud your ears. Lastly, I think Kelly isn't jealous of her daughters, whereas I find Michelle to have a degree of that.

[HereticHick]

Well said, acat7. I agree that Michelle is threatened by college, haunted by "giving away pieces of her heart" as a teen, and is jealous of her daughters. And, unlike Kelly, is unwilling to admit that she is now in the no-more-babies "season of life."

[nolongerIFBx]

Some of it is that the Bates tried ATI's version of courtship and experienced a poor result. The Duggars have gotten good results twice. It might take a failed courtship- or even a marriage where daughter can't stand SIL's touch- before they would see a need to rethink their policies.

[madpsych78]

I think the Bates are less manic about side- vs. full frontal hugging than Michelle, but are they less manic than Jim Bob?

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

Also the Bates seem a bit more lax on the role of the chaperones- they are always within eyesight but now right up on their charges. I think the Duggars chaperones are supposed to hear every word that is said- that would be so uncomfortable!

[EmeraldPickle]

I think the Bates are less manic about side- vs. full frontal hugging than Michelle, but are they less manic than Jim Bob?

Michelle is more manic than Jim Bob, at least more recently. I think the lack of pregnancy hormones has made her go from teetering on the edge to straight down the deep end with a giant splash.

[acat7]

Well said, acat7. I agree that Michelle is threatened by college, haunted by "giving away pieces of her heart" as a teen, and is jealous of her daughters. And, unlike Kelly, is unwilling to admit that she is now in the no-more-babies "season of life."

Thanks ;) . And yes, absolutely about the babies, i left that off. Kelly is WAY more comfortable in her skin as a non-pregnant woman unlike Michelle.

[Coconut Flan]

While I think Kelly would have welcomed another child if it had happened, I get a sense of relief from her that the childbearing is over. The last few years of taking medication to prevent miscarriages and such seems to have convinced her that ending all that might not be bad.

[artdecades]

I always think the duggars' "side hug ok; holding hands not ok" was weird. there is a lot more physical contact with a side hug than holding hands.

[OneFifthQuiverFull]

While I think Kelly would have welcomed another child if it had happened, I get a sense of relief from her that the childbearing is over. The last few years of taking medication to prevent miscarriages and such seems to have convinced her that ending all that might not be bad.

I have 4 kids and when I married my husband we thought we wanted 4-6 kids. When I got pregnant with my 4th at age 27 (making #4 in 5 years - the first 2 being twins) I remember being mildly concerned with myself that I seemed to be "addicted" to pregnancy/childbirth/infancy. I had to go ahead and have #4 because I needed a hysterectomy. So we tried and conceived her and had her. I fretted through the pregnancy that I would be like "the old woman who lived in a shoe" (who had so many children she didn't know what to do) but the day my daughter was born, my husband was holding my hand and yelling push, and I thought, "OMG, I do not EVER want to go through this again" and I'd had some pretty bad deliveries, but I had seemed to have forgotten them as I continued to happily conceive. But oh, man ... that day I had my daughter I knew I was d.o.n.e. and it was the most liberating, "Hallelujah I am normal" moment ever. I had my hysterectomy when she was 6 months old and I was one happy camper, knowing there was no way no how I could EVER get pregnant again, and that was after marrying, conceiving (on purpose!) on my honeymoon, having twins, having a baby 21 months after that, and then TTC and birthing another one in 4.5 years time, worrying that I wouldn't know how to stop.

All of that is to say, I think for those of us who are mentally healthy who know we want big families in a short period of time, there is also a sense of being done and being peaceful with that. If I had allowed my identity to be wrapped up into conceiving, carrying, birthing and nursing, I could completely understand the sense of loss when the end of that was forced upon me by nature. And since I think Michelle is unhealthy mentally, I can see how she would really not be able to handle the end, where a normal person like Kelly could be relieved that the time has come to rest on her laurels and enjoy the literal fruit of her labors.

[Coconut Flan]

Kelly seems perfectly happy to be moving on to weddings and looking forward to grandchildren in as you say a very healthy way. She doesn't go around moaning about babies. She's exultant about grandbabies.

[pega127]

Well said, acat7. I agree that Michelle is threatened by college, haunted by "giving away pieces of her heart" as a teen, and is jealous of her daughters. And, unlike Kelly, is unwilling to admit that she is now in the no-more-babies "season of life."

I think she's "haunted" by dating as a teen due to JB making her feel guilty (mostly due to him never being able to attract a girl in his teen years!). HIs jealousy = her guilt!

[Lovebug]

I think she's "haunted" by dating as a teen due to JB making her feel guilty (mostly due to him never being able to attract a girl in his teen years!). HIs jealousy = her guilt!

This is totally off topic, but.... Wow! Yet another new perspective that makes so much sense...

Seriously. How is it possible that all these new "Aha!" moments keep happening with these people? It's not even like they're trying to take the freak show to a whole new level. It just keeps unfolding all on it's own...

[HereticHick]

I think pega127 hits the nail on the head. JB, control freak asshole that he is, makes Michelle feel guilty about her teenage years before he came along and "saved" her. So she passes the paranoia on to the daughters-- one flash of a knee, she tells them, and they could turn into terrible harlots and no decent men will want them.

I've also wondered if Michelle was ever (physically or verbally) sexually harassed in her bikini-wearing cheerleading days.

[feministxtian]

I really don't get their paranoia about showing affection. I have a male friend who has gone above and beyond in helping me out in a currently VERY rough situation. I think nothing of giving him a big full frontal hug when he's done something totally wonderful (he sold some stuff for me and got me more $ than I thought he would)...I mean, when someone hands you enough money to cover the rent check that was going to bounce you tend to get a wee bit emotional!

[pega127]

I think pega127 hits the nail on the head. JB, control freak asshole that he is, makes Michelle feel guilty about her teenage years before he came along and "saved" her. So she passes the paranoia on to the daughters-- one flash of a knee, she tells them, and they could turn into terrible harlots and no decent men will want them.

I've also wondered if Michelle was ever (physically or verbally) sexually harassed in her bikini-wearing cheerleading days.

Exactly. I don't think she was "harassed"; but maybe liked the attention she received in her bikini and cheerleading days!

[HereticHick]

And JimBob is going to hold that over Michelle tell the day she dies. Asshat.