15 years old= not old enough to know they should be serving

[Koala]

Serving Erika that is. In her most recent post she gives her readers a peek into their summer schedule, and while Erika is very generous (giving her oldest daughters a WHOLE 30 minutes of free time per day), one can't help but notice that they spend a large majority of their day caring for Erika's children and cleaning Erika's house.

 

largefamiliesonpurpose.com/2014/06/summer-schedule-2014-for-nine-children.html#more

 

From the comments:

 

 

Quote

Erika: We we don't deviate to just hang-out. We deviate with a purpose. Hanging out doesn't produce very good situations for everyone. *chuckle*

 

Reader:

 

Quote

I'm curious why you still schedule summer days for your 14 and 15 year old. Do they prefer it? Or is it just easier for you to have everyone on a certain schedule? Is there an age when you feel it will be more appropriate for them to manage their own daily schedules and choose how to spend their time?

 

Erika:

 

Quote

They are not old enough to choose productivity and serving the family to the extent that they should yet. They would waste a ton of time with out management still. They do have large blocks of time when it's not scheduled, but we still need to stay on top of home and family and meals, being people who are growing and learning in their "free" time, etc. Their scheduled time is pretty much determined by them; which activities they'll do. But if it's not scheduled then they'd never get around to the work parts of it, or would do way too much "dessert" reading for example (fiction), not also including enough some non-fiction, and limiting their reading time to a reasonable part of the day. They still need guidance is what it comes down to. I would imagine more like age 18 or so they'd be managing all of their time. But we're not there yet so I don't know what their character will be like at that time. =)

[Rebelwife]

I have a 14 year old and a 12 year old. They are required to help around the house - it's usually a mixture of "you need to make sure you do X and Y at some point today" and things I need help with at a specific time. They're also required to tell me one thing they did for their body (besides swimming in our backyard pool) and one thing they did for their mind each day. I do require that my older daughter's "mind" thing not be fiction unless it's her school summer reading but that's only because she is a voracious 24/7 reader but I think she could stand to expand her tastes.

I think giving older kids a framework of expectations is smart, but this is exactly the age that they NEED to be learning to manage their own time.

[justakitten]

Dear Erika,

It's "affected", not "effected". Time to start studying if you're homeschooling all those children *smile*

[OkToBeTakei]

Well I'm just a shit Mother who is letting her child be a child but also respect her and want her to grow and gain confidence in herself.

The schedule includes the normal stuff such as eating and chores. Life is like that eh? Nothing wrong with that. Preparation for future study/career etc. Self discipline, the need to know that if *I* do not direct and 'do' it and she does not, there are consequences.

My child is 11 about to start academy. Sure I could micro-manage. What will she learn? What are all these kids learning who's parents direct and helicopter? Nada.

Took a few times for me to not remind her about homework.

Took a few times for me not to be available to drop off forgotten sports gear.

Took a few times for me to deny allowance, to know your future employer is not your Mum. Etc Etc.

Takes a while to get there with kids and everybody does it differently. I probably expect a lot but life is not easy and I think the earlier they know this the stronger they are. OF course I don't think Erica's bar is set any higher than her *own* wishes. She is not trying to nurture or grow her children, she is just imposing her will on them. She is bringing them up in this narrow and limited lifestyle she lives. They have no choices. No opportunities out with what she sets. All wrapped up in some religious anti-society dogma.

I think any parent who imposes their will on their kids is wrong it just seems magnified with the religious types. Another example perhaps being my rabidly vegetarian friend who brought her kids up the same way...do or die. We are all products of our upbringing I was brought up Catholic, just my parents did not hold me ransom to it ..thankfully :lol:

(If this makes any sense, long day.)

[neuroticcat]

Speechless at her comment. What a treat. These people will never see their children as separate and give them freedom to make choices.

They will not have that "freedom" until they make the "right choices" with their time - read: whatever their mom thinks they should be doing. I guarantee it - that kind of extreme control is royally messing the kids up. The reading example makes my head explode. Not only will those girls constantly feel guilty for their own personal choices, they will retain a mindset that says reading novels is frivolous, compared to what - dusting the fans? Serving the family? Also they will never have the room to make a mistake or discover what they really like to do.

I get that children need guidance, but the last sentence is over the top. "We'll see what their character is like." In other words, if they don't measure up to her crazytown idea of Good Character, they will never have any autonomy. How about you realize your children don't belong to you, that parenting does not equal controlling them, that people are not perfect, and that they are persons in their own right (angry glare!).

[theologygeek]

I have a 14 year old and a 12 year old. They are required to help around the house - it's usually a mixture of "you need to make sure you do X and Y at some point today" and things I need help with at a specific time. They're also required to tell me one thing they did for their body (besides swimming in our backyard pool) and one thing they did for their mind each day. I do require that my older daughter's "mind" thing not be fiction unless it's her school summer reading but that's only because she is a voracious 24/7 reader but I think she could stand to expand her tastes.

I didn't care what my kids read, how much tv they watched, how long or what kind of video games they played, what they did for their body each day, etc. All that micro managing irritates me. I taught them what I wanted to instill in them from day 1 and let them grow. They all made the dean's list, they were and still are physically active, they have good jobs, and serving the less fortunate is big on the list of each one.

[Jana814]

Speechless at her comment. What a treat. These people will never see their children as separate and give them freedom to make choices.

Soo true!! For all of the Fundie's!! They don't realize that their kids r individuals.

[feministxtian]

I'm 50 years old and don't have a daily schedule!!! I work at home...so I work for awhile, walk away for awhile, work for awhile...

My kids? Yeah, good luck with that! They ran out the front door in the morning and showed back up when they were hungry, tired, hot, whatever.

Me? Summertime? I grew up in VA. Let's see if I can remember that far back...Ok...got it...got up in the morning, grabbed a bowl of cereal or whatever. Hop on the bike and haul ass down to the pool for swim practice. 2 hour practice, help with junior practice, stay for swim lessons (I was red cross lifeguard/WSI). Go home and dry off, eat lunch, do whatever chores I was supposed to do. Then, on the bike for the afternoon's adventures. Maybe the pool, maybe the park, maybe a friend's house. Go home around suppertime. Eat supper. Do dishes. Then maybe go down to the beach and see what was happening, or go to the skating rink or just stay home. Wednesday night...praise band practice. Saturday 5pm - practice and 6pm Mass. Out the door to go raise hell by 7:15. Yeah, those were my summers as a teenager :cracking-up:

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

Pretty much sums up how my summers were- non-stop housecleaning, caring for 6 younger siblings and loads of household projects. My mom was the queen of visiting ladies from our church- everyone just LOVED her because if you were in the hospital, had a new baby, a death in the family or were a widow she would bring a meal and stay for 3-4 hours to visit. She did this 2-3 nights a week and my sister and I would have to get all the kids fed, bathed and in bed and still have all our chores done.

I don't think I missed out on watching TV, but just having a minute to breathe would have been nice.

[ThisOlGirl]

I'm always afraid that one of two things will happen with these fundie kids who are completely controlled:

1. They'll either be so beaten down by the time they reach adulthood, they won't be able to function (which I'm guessing is kind of the parent's desired result), or

2. They'll eventually snap and do something violent either to themselves or their family. Not that I don't think these parents deserve a swift kick in the ass, but I'd hate to see one of Erica's kids shipped off to some fundie re-education center, or end up in jail as adults.

[Cheetah]

I had posted this to an old Erika thread but it's currently buried in the "Individuals and families" subthread. Anyway, what gets me is making 15 and 14 year olds get up at 6 and 6:30am in the summer. I mean, okay, if they have a job outside of the house or are taking classes somewhere... but seriously... how many 15 year olds do you know that choose to get up at 6 if they don't have to?

[NotALoserLikeYou]

It would be a nightmare to be in that family.

[Hisey]

I had posted this to an old Erika thread but it's currently buried in the "Individuals and families" subthread. Anyway, what gets me is making 15 and 14 year olds get up at 6 and 6:30am in the summer. I mean, okay, if they have a job outside of the house or are taking classes somewhere... but seriously... how many 15 year olds do you know that choose to get up at 6 if they don't have to?

This mom is so fricking lazy. Her kids do more work than she does! She spends the whole day "facilitating" (IE, sitting on the sofa watching her teens do all the work)>

[RandomTrivia]

Looking at her micromanaging schedule, only Herself and the 2 oldest kids have bath/shower on the schedule, and the 2 kids are scheduled for "shower" at the same time. Do they shower together, or just have amazing water pressure? Do the younger kids get baths during "dress/groom"?

Sad that the only reading listed is specifically non-fiction, and that the kids play in separate areas in the afternoons. Wonder if they ever decide to play in a big group. Yeah, she claims they read fiction whenever they can, but looking at that schedule, when would that actually be?

[Rebelwife]

I didn't care what my kids read, how much tv they watched, how long or what kind of video games they played, what they did for their body each day, etc. All that micro managing irritates me. I taught them what I wanted to instill in them from day 1 and let them grow. They all made the dean's list, they were and still are physically active, they have good jobs, and serving the less fortunate is big on the list of each one.

Eh, different strokes. It's only in the summer, and it's all in the interest of a little bit of mindfulness. I don't care what they actually do, I just ask they put a little thought into their day. If it was just my youngest, I wouldn't worry about it. She's roaming the neighborhood with a pack of friends all day and they are getting lots of exercise and social interaction. My oldest, on the other hand, would spend all day in her room reading or writing fan fiction - literally all day. We do try to help her "be present in her life" as we put it.

My teenage nieces and nephews are home all day during the summer, because my brother-in-law has to work and is a single dad. They sit on the couch all day and watch TV, mainly because they don't have anyone around who will say "why don't you turn that off and go outside? It's a beautiful day?" My parenting philosophy is one of letting kids make most of their own decisions within a framework. I do put vegetables on the table at dinner and remind them to take some, I do remind them to do their laundry the day before they have to pack for camp, and I do occasionally prompt my older to call up a friend and do something. They are still kids, and not ready to be completely on their own. I don't feel any need to micromanage their lives (seriously, who has the time or energy to even WANT to do that?) but there is a happy medium.

[SamE]

I do ask my kids to do one chore a day during the summer. Something to make the house look a little better.

Then, they watch a little tv. Finally, they walk to my parents house to have lunch and swim.

[slickcat79]

How does she expect them to learn to manage their own time by 18 if she doesn't allow them to work on it in the meantime? It isn't just going to magically manifest on their birthdays :?

And seriously, if you have not instilled the "character" that you want in your kids by the time they hit puberty, they are not going to learn it between 15 and 18. You should know what your kids are like by that age. Of course, we are talking about the same woman who can't tell her 3yo twins apart without color-coordinated earrings...

[lemondrop]

Poor kids. Unstructured time is a luxury (in many places, you have a lot of responsibilities at 15), but it's great for personal growth. The summer I turned 15, I rode my bike or city buses to hang out with friends. I took a summer school math course, so that I could fast track in high school. I got bored always hanging out with my immature dumbass guy friends and got a part time babysitting job: résumé, job interview, the works. I practiced my breast stroke until I could do 80 lengths of the community pool without stopping, which made me realise that is don't actually suck at *all* fitness stuff. My parents had nothing to do with any of this, except for hanging back and being appropriately strict when the situation called for it. (I now know that I totally wouldn't have let me go camping with the dumbasses either). I wouldn't have learned a fraction of what I had learned that summer if I were stuck at home polishing baseboards and reading the Bible.

[dairyfreelife]

I'm always afraid that one of two things will happen with these fundie kids who are completely controlled:

1. They'll either be so beaten down by the time they reach adulthood, they won't be able to function (which I'm guessing is kind of the parent's desired result), or

2. They'll eventually snap and do something violent either to themselves or their family. Not that I don't think these parents deserve a swift kick in the ass, but I'd hate to see one of Erica's kids shipped off to some fundie re-education center, or end up in jail as adults.

I see it other ways.

1-Similar to yours. They will not really know how to function in the world on their own well, if at all. This will be either having to constantly rely on someone else or they will tow the party line and be just like their parents.

2-They will totally rebel and do the opposite of how they were raised once they taste freedom. They may go overboard and never structure anything. They won't have structured regimes for their children at all.

I don't see violence happening. That's a bit extreme.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Free Karen and Melanie!

I would like to see what their schedule would look like when Karen is over 18 and still living at home. I bet Erika wont let her be unscheduled, she is just saying that to seem like she isn't a control freak. The kids will be scheduled until the day they are married.

[HoneyBunny]

I feel so, so sorry for Erika's two oldest. Has anyone ever read on her blog about how she (Erika) was raised? It seems that, with most of these fundies, their kids are the first generation to be brought up that way, and it happens because of something the parents experienced. Erika has stated that their childraising views are so extreme that they've cut her husband's parents totally out of their lives, which is really sad. Does that mean that her parents were also fundie and she was raised the same way? Or, is it (what I believe) that she is undiagnosed OCD who latched on to the Maxwells' MOTH as a way to cope, and her own parents know her personality is so strong that it's either do it her way or lose access to their grandkids?

Anyways, back to the schedule...if you aren't giving your 15 year old a chance to have some autonomy and perhaps screw up, if they can't cope with more than 30 free minutes a day, then you've really messed up the whole parenting thing and your kids will never be fully functional as adults, which, is the whole point, isn't it (or not...with these guys the point is how many kids they can squeeze into a bedroom)?

My parents were far from perfect, but some things they got right, and summer schedules were one of them. From the time we entered high school (so 13 years old for me), we had to present to them a plan for our summer. And by the time we were old enough to have active employment (not just babysitting or grass cutting, but a W-2 wage coming in) we were expected to do that, as close to full time as we could get. I vividly remember taking typing class and babysitting between 8th and 9th grade, volunteering as a candy striper between 9th and 10th, and working full time at my Catholic high school between 10th and 11th, not for money, but to earn credits toward my tuition (janitorial, mostly), and working in a steakhouse between 11th and 12th and throughout my senior year. As far as work around the house, we were expected to keep our own rooms clean, help out a bit with the bathrooms and rest of the house and either help with meals and clean up or help dad in the garden, but those last couple of things were done whether we were there or not. In other words, we weren't in charge of keeping and running the house. We helped out, but we were expected to be getting skills that would allow us to LEAVE HOME.

Those poor Shupe girls are learning how to be nannys or housekeepers, and absent husbands being dropped from the sky into their laps, that's all they'll ever be. Which is fine, if that's what they want, but I don't think they've been allowed to realize what it is that they want. Instead it's all been what their mother wants for them.

[Jana814]

Those poor Shupe girls are learning how to be nannys or housekeepers, and absent husbands being dropped from the sky into their laps, that's all they'll ever be. Which is fine, if that's what they want, but I don't think they've been allowed to realize what it is that they want. Instead it's all been what their mother wants for them.

Have to agree w/ you. She expects her daughters to marry & have lots of kids like many other Fundies expect from their kids. Also cause these kids r so sheltered they don't realize that they can do more w/ their lives besides being a wife & mother.

[Coco]

This mom is so fricking lazy. Her kids do more work than she does! She spends the whole day "facilitating" (IE, sitting on the sofa watching her teens do all the work)>

True but probably not on the couch. My mom was the same way except that she went around making sure the jobs were done well. A ponytail holder on the floor? Re-vacuum entire room. We wore out the carpet in some places.

[Coco]

I see it other ways.

1-Similar to yours. They will not really know how to function in the world on their own well, if at all. This will be either having to constantly rely on someone else or they will tow the party line and be just like their parents.

2-They will totally rebel and do the opposite of how they were raised once they taste freedom. They may go overboard and never structure anything. They won't have structured regimes for their children at all.

I don't see violence happening. That's a bit extreme.

Amen. They'll collapse.

[Coco]

My parents were far from perfect, but some things they got right, and summer schedules were one of them. From the time we entered high school (so 13 years old for me), we had to present to them a plan for our summer. And by the time we were old enough to have active employment (not just babysitting or grass cutting, but a W-2 wage coming in) we were expected to do that, as close to full time as we could get. I vividly remember taking typing class and babysitting between 8th and 9th grade, volunteering as a candy striper between 9th and 10th, and working full time at my Catholic high school between 10th and 11th, not for money, but to earn credits toward my tuition (janitorial, mostly), and working in a steakhouse between 11th and 12th and throughout my senior year. As far as work around the house, we were expected to keep our own rooms clean, help out a bit with the bathrooms and rest of the house and either help with meals and clean up or help dad in the garden, but those last couple of things were done whether we were there or not. In other words, we weren't in charge of keeping and running the house. We helped out, but we were expected to be getting skills that would allow us to LEAVE HOME.

Thank you for sharing your positive experiences. One of these days the Shupe girls will probably read FJ and they'll need positive parenting examples to learn from. It's so good to hear about parents who did it right.

My parents were wonderful too but this is one area that they got wrong... I love my mom but her undiagnosed OCD got the better of her when she was trying to raise us. (My dad's job required him to be gone a lot of the time.) She used to get so angry at us kids for not being self-starters. But we were only obeying what she herself trained into us -- follow blindly, do things exactly her way and then wait for further directions. She had a retail job at 15 (i guess the labor laws were different in the 70's or maybe her mom got her the job, it was at the same store her mom worked at) and graduated high school at 17, went to college at 17 while still working and married our dad at 19. But then she micromanaged us kids and at the same time she would yell at us that "No one had to remind me to get things done, if i didn't do homework i got an F" and, "If i didn't remember something I was out of luck". The disconnect between her experiences and over-sheltering us to the point that we were afraid to go through buffet lines alone as preteens is staggering.

These fundie parents don't make the connection that growing up = assuming responsibility. It's so weird. In worse case families, they assume that their children will magically know how to balance a banking account, set up household services, manage car insurance, negotiate cell phone contracts, be able to establish friendships in a strange area without family to lean on, etc. from being micro-managed at home until they're 18 years old. Nope. These things are gradually learned through experience. It's like they forget the steps they themselves went through on the journey to independent living.

Gotta say, i still feel 10 years younger than i actually am, in life-experience terms. It took several years of working and supporting myself to relieve the socially stunted feeling.