Steve Maxwell throws his dad Paul Bargar under the bus

[Joan of Snarc]

The description of that session:

I don't think anyone has verbed that particular noun before. Steve is architecting -- are you? :roll:

Aside from misuse of the word "architect," that paragraph doesn't even make sense. It's four disjointed sentences, with their buzzword "energize" thrown in for good measure. SOTDRT and copywriting FAIL.

:roll:

[nokidsmom]

Pure speculation on my part: Something very bad happened at his job and Steve was, if not fired, paid to go away without a good reference and not much chance of getting a similar job. Teri was already struggling and the family was in free-fall. Steve's back-up plan (they were already Fundie-lite) was to go the full Patriarchal route and turn that into his new home business.

He looked at Gothard, Pearl, and others as an example and laid out his business plan. Of course he had to go QF to succeed with his target population, hence the need for the reversal and more kids. His particular talent and niche was to become more controlling and isolating than all the rest of the Fundie leaders combined. He's refined that isolation over the years into his new religion.

One more nugget of information from Mr. P that did not make it into last year's report. In the session for Dads Steve talks at some length and with emphasis about how he does not hear God's actual voice. He is just sort of overcome with a certainty that God is telling him the direction to take. Mr. P found the emphasis strange given the audience, and quipped afterwards that in the mainstream business world an employee claiming to hear voices would trigger a request for a Mental Health Assessment from most HR departments. Something to ponder.

I agree that something happened at his job. Whether it was reporting to a woman, working/dealing with women, hearing voices, or what I don't know. But after reading his blog posts about being called home, I do suspect that he eventually was terminated with a severance package. It sounded liked his company was either trying to work with him or was at least documenting his situation, whatever it was, very carefully and after some time could end his employment. He probably had to agree not to sue in order to get the severance package. I worked for a major corporation that did this sort of thing with some employees, it took time to make sure all was being done per policy and legally, and the person typically had to sign an agreement to get a severance package. As far as references, a lot of companies will only give out dates and position held over phone inquiries; more details, such as salary are done in writing, but usually companies will stay away from discussing any disciplinary or performance issues. Steve would have probably gotten an OK reference.

[nausicaa]

There is nothing I delight in more than when fundies try to market themselves as hip, witty, or funny. (See the cover of It's Not That Complicated by the Botkins).

[Dru]

Glad I could amuse!

Alas, I can only caption, I can't do Photoshoppish things. I leave the image of Stevenergizer bunny beating the TV for someone else.

I don't think I ever noticed that the Energizer bunny wears flip-flops. No frumper, though.

I'm sure there's a caption to be had that ends with "You'll keep burning, and burning, and burning." but I can't quite put my finger on it.

[Marian the Librarian]

There is nothing I delight in more than when fundies try to market themselves as hip, witty, or funny. (See the cover of It's Not That Complicated by the Botkins).

Who can forget Dougie and Beall's DVD set about raising children, which included ways to fend off the dreaded "jive talk?"

[nausicaa]

Who can forget Dougie and Beall's DVD set about raising children, which included ways to fend off the dreaded "jive talk?"

To be fair, if one begins engaging in jive talk, one might begin to attract some of the dreaded jive turkeys!

[Palimpsest]

Maxwell Definitions

Dating: Boy/Girl only, no chaperone, and invariably includes having riotous sex with someone you have to intention of marrying because you both rip your clothes off immediately. Evil and you will burn in Hell!

Courting: Boy/Girl only, always chaperoned, no touching or kissing so no sex. Goal is always marriage. Good, but success rate in courtship leading to marriage only 1:3 so far.

Which can only lead to:

Dorting (d'ourting): Boy/Girl only. Some touching. Chaperoned. Goal Marriage. Huge risk that your children will evade the chaperone, tear off their clothes and engage in glorious sex because they have been allowed to touch. Touching before marriage is EVIL.

[16strong]

Who can forget Dougie and Beall's DVD set about raising children, which included ways to fend off the dreaded "jive talk?"

How is anyone forgetting DeDe and her "comedy" act?

[Palimpsest]

I agree that something happened at his job. Whether it was reporting to a woman, working/dealing with women, hearing voices, or what I don't know. But after reading his blog posts about being called home, I do suspect that he eventually was terminated with a severance package. It sounded liked his company was either trying to work with him or was at least documenting his situation, whatever it was, very carefully and after some time could end his employment. He probably had to agree not to sue in order to get the severance package. I worked for a major corporation that did this sort of thing with some employees, it took time to make sure all was being done per policy and legally, and the person typically had to sign an agreement to get a severance package. As far as references, a lot of companies will only give out dates and position held over phone inquiries; more details, such as salary are done in writing, but usually companies will stay away from discussing any disciplinary or performance issues. Steve would have probably gotten an OK reference.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to have picked up on the feeling that Steve was "managed out" of his job, if that is the correct HR parlance.

There are definite indications that something happened career-wise. The terms of the severance and reference would have been negotiated depending on his (speculated) bad fit or perhaps (speculated) insubordination with the business. Yes?

[Brittany15]

Wasn't it something about having to work with a woman and Steve not wanting to?

[nokidsmom]

I'm glad I'm not the only one to have picked up on the feeling that Steve was "managed out" of his job, if that is the correct HR parlance.

There are definite indications that something happened career-wise. The terms of the severance and reference would have been negotiated depending on his (speculated) bad fit or perhaps (speculated) insubordination with the business. Yes?

Yes, the terms of the severance and reference would have have negotiated and agreed based on what circumstances he was leaving. I saw a number of situations where all the company wanted was for the person to go away after either trying to accomodate him/her or going through any discliplinary proceedures with lots of documentation. To further ensure they wouldn't get sued they offered a certain amount of money with the agreement that they would give a decent reference which consisted of dates, position held, salary, or other generic job information but not disclose any negative information. Now if there was theft, fraud or some other situation where laws were broken and charges filed, it becomes a different issue but it sounds like in Steve's case it was either bad fit, poor performance or insubordination.

We also had folks who would force this type of situation in order to leave with a package so they could go and do whatever. I do wonder if Steve's being "called home" by the Sky Daddy was simply his own machinations either because he wanted to do something else or he wasn't fitting in his workplace due to voices or whatever the hell was going on with him.

He makes leaving the workplace sound like it was a passive thing, that he was acted upon by the Sky Daddy but seriously I think he may have created the situation or at least refused to be accomodated. In short he took a far more active role in leaving than he lets on.

[Palimpsest]

Yes, the terms of the severance and reference would have have negotiated and agreed based on what circumstances he was leaving. I saw a number of situations where all the company wanted was for the person to go away after either trying to accomodate him/her or going through any discliplinary proceedures with lots of documentation. To further ensure they wouldn't get sued they offered a certain amount of money with the agreement that they would give a decent reference which consisted of dates, position held, salary, or other generic job information but not disclose any negative information. Now if there was theft, fraud or some other situation where laws were broken and charges filed, it becomes a different issue but it sounds like in Steve's case it was either bad fit, poor performance or insubordination.

We also had folks who would force this type of situation in order to leave with a package so they could go and do whatever. I do wonder if Steve's being "called home" by the Sky Daddy was simply his own machinations either because he wanted to do something else or he wasn't fitting in his workplace due to voices or whatever the hell was going on with him.

He makes leaving the workplace sound like it was a passive thing, that he was acted upon by the Sky Daddy but seriously I think he may have created the situation or at least refused to be accomodated. In short he took a far more active role in leaving than he lets on.

So complex and so speculative, but ITA with the bolded. And you are brilliant in your succinct and informative exposition of the issue! Thanks.

Of course, I may think that you are brilliant because you agree with me. :P

[twin2]

After more concideration, I think the Maxwells could write some books on courtship:

"How to Prepare Your Sons for a Failed Courtship"

"Sweet Spinster: When God Does Not Call You to Be a Wife"

[16strong]

Sweet Spinster? :lol:

[Joan of Snarc]

Who can forget Dougie and Beall's DVD set about raising children, which included ways to fend off the dreaded "jive talk?"

OMG did they put that out in 1975? I had no idea they started peddling this crap when they were still kids!

:evil-eye:

[Kellbells]

I just went to check out the post on Melanie and happened to notice below that 'dorting' has now been removed.

All together now: HI STEVE!!!

So sad I'm moving from Greensboro to Charlotte next month as their conference will be in GBO on my 35th birthday. It would've been a hilarious clusterfuck to show up and see what they had to say about my love life which I classify as very happily living in sin.

Edited because autocorrect sucks

[16strong]

Yeah. Hi Steve!

You know, one of these days you can quit being a coward and join us here for some afternoon tea and a chat.

[uber frau]

Maxwell Definitions

Dating: Boy/Girl only, no chaperone, and invariably includes having riotous sex with someone you have to intention of marrying because you both rip your clothes off immediately. Evil and you will burn in Hell!

Courting: Boy/Girl only, always chaperoned, no touching or kissing so no sex. Goal is always marriage. Good, but success rate in courtship leading to marriage only 1:3 so far.

Which can only lead to:

Dorting (d'ourting): Boy/Girl only. Some touching. Chaperoned. Goal Marriage. Huge risk that your children will evade the chaperone, tear off their clothes and engage in glorious sex because they have been allowed to touch. Touching before marriage is EVIL.

This is what those Slutty Duggars do. I wonder how much of the Courtship presentation is as much about convincing the Maxwell 'children' as much as anything. It must chafe that girls a bit more than half Sarah age are being married off when she's still at home writing about her imaginary family and eating burritos filled with tasteless brown mush. I'd love to know how Steve has responded to their ex compatriot's(the Duggars in particular, but they're not the only ones) slipping standards.

[VodouDoll]

It must chafe that girls a bit more than half Sarah age are being married off when she's still at home writing about her imaginary family

Ow! But true!

[FloraKitty35]

OMG did they put that out in 1975? I had no idea they started peddling this crap when they were still kids!

:evil-eye:

Now I have the Bee Gees "Jive Talkin" stuck in my head.

[Jana814]

Wasn't it something about having to work with a woman and Steve not wanting to?

Yes I think u r right! I think the woman might have been his superior & he refused to work for a woman.

[SPHASH]

Yes I think u r right! I think the woman might have been his superior & he refused to work for a woman.

I thought Steve's boss wanted him to take a saleswoman from one of their suppliers to lunch.

[kpmom]

I thought Steve's boss wanted him to take a saleswoman from one of their suppliers to lunch.

I don't think we ever got the exact reason Steve left his job. He wrote this in a Corner in Sept. 1997;

"In January I told my boss I could not do what they were asking me to do. As a Christian it would violate my conscience and as a result I expected to be let go. There have been many interactions since then over this and nothing has happened yet even though I have stood my ground. Two weeks ago I met with the company president and told him I thought my position ought to be eliminated as no one should be asked to do those things. He gave my boss until the end of the month to resolve the situation. So will it be resolved by then? Only the Lord knows."

He wrote this just a few months after he wrote about not wanting to have lunch with a female supplier, so it might have been because of that, but I don't think they ever said exactly why.

[nokidsmom]

So complex and so speculative, but ITA with the bolded. And you are brilliant in your succinct and informative exposition of the issue! Thanks.

Of course, I may think that you are brilliant because you agree with me. :P

Well, thank you! Great minds think alike! :D

I always felt this is what happened with Steve and am glad to see I am the not only one who thought so too. When I first read his blog posts on being "brought home" or whatever he called it, it hit me that this wasn't entirely the Sky Daddy's will, that the Sky Daddy had a lot of help from Steve himself. It seemed very similar to some cases that I have personally witnessed while at what I call the Big Company. And Steve, IIRC, was at a similar Big Company, though not at the same one I was at, but suffice it to say it was a similar environment.

[nausicaa]

OMG did they put that out in 1975? I had no idea they started peddling this crap when they were still kids!

:evil-eye:

This reminded me of a Watchtower copy a JW handed me once. Inside was an article about "Do you know what your teenagers are up to?" The opening was supposed to sketch out the "typical" teenager. Sulky, rebellious, unenthusiastic. Then the greatest line ever "He or she lies in bed all day, headphones on, listening to the rapid beats of the latest jazz album."

No, not jazz! Don't tell me it's come to that!