Josiah and the Arm Twist

[nellautumngirl]

I'm one of those who rewatched that several times and didn't really see anything. Some time before the announcement, Josiah was scratching that arm, so I think it was irritating him for some other reason. And I think that the "Josiah, don't-" makes sense if he had left to grab the cell phone from the kitchen and they were saying "Josiah don't call..." about the announcement. If I remember correctly he had a cellphone in hand later on texting someone. And the choppy scene cuts are nothing new for TLC.

I don't doubt that physical abuse/spanking happens in that home - especially with the little ones - but I don't think that was an instance of it. I honestly don't think any of those kids - especially the older ones - would show their disapproval for pregnancy during a TLC shoot. They are pros at learning to control and mask their emotions, there's no way they would let that slip in that moment. Off camera - maybe. Besides, I highly doubt any of the kids are surprised when another pregnancy announcement pops up. They've heard their parents rhetoric more than anyone.

I just don't see the evidence.

He left the second they announced her pregnancy. If he left to call someone, I think it was only an excuse for having a moment to himself. He was clearly upset by something. And it must have shaken him so much that he couldn't pretend to be happy anymore. Poor boy, I can't imagine what it's like to have no one in your family to turn to when you feel down.

[Tangy Bee]

Well...I just remember Josiah didn't look happy at all. Mary and Jessa's facial expressions were just strange and vacant. Maybe they are so use to Michelle being pregnant that it's just hard to get excited anymore. I don't wish for anything bad to happen but something just wasn't right that day. When Michelle told the family about the miscarriage...no one sat with her or gave her a hug. Not a big fan of her lifestyle, but I would have given her a hug at least. It was over 25 people in that room that day...and she was still alone. Maybe they showed remorse after the cameras stopped rolling. If so...I don't get it.

[It'sFunToRun]

Pick a theory, any theory:

(1a) Innocent: Josiah had a cold that day and knew he had to vomit, so he ran when he couldn't hold it anymore. We all know how much compassion JB and DQ have for sick kids, so they dragged him back to filming.

(1b) Josiah saw something in the foreground, such as a hat blowing away or his dog (for instance) getting off it's leash and impulsively ran to catch it.

(2a) Not Innocent: Josiah was upset that his mom was having yet another kid, and acted out.

(2b) Josiah had fought with JB over something before the shoot, and hadn't had time to calm down and compose himself

[Jilli]

For me watching that episode something seemed off, and chaotic about that announcement. All I really know is that Josiah has always loved babies. I know Josie's birth situation affected him greatly, but I can't really say if he was unhappy or happy about the new baby. I think he would have been happy about her birth if she had survived, because he's compassionate.

[nana sew dear]

Poor kid...Free Josiah! :cry: :cry: :cry:

[It'sFunToRun]

Is ALERT something all Duggar boys do when they get to a certain age (17?) or have only some done it? I'd wonder why, and why the length can vary.

[Seven Severn]

Well, damn. There was a shot by shot album that someone made that was hosted at ImageShack. It was posted here at FJ a couple of years ago. I had it bookmarked and looked at it a couple of times, but the bookmark is no longer working. It was really striking. Josiah leaves frame and some people look and point off camera. Iirc, Jinger was the most animated looking one. When Josiah comes back in frame he's next to Boob and he's holding his arm and his eyes look a bit red. A couple of frames later and he's standing next to Mary behind Michelle and both Josiah and Mary are looking daggers in Boob's direction.

Michelle's announcement was huge. Why go to a series of still shots unless something untoward happened? It makes no sense stylistically and takes away from the big moment. I wish I'd taken screenshots of the album.

If anyone wants to try and find it, the address was imageshack.us/g/508/shot1c.jpg Someone more savvy than me might be able to get it to work.

[dawbs]

Well, damn. There was a shot by shot album that someone made that was hosted at ImageShack. It was posted here at FJ a couple of years ago. I had it bookmarked and looked at it a couple of times, but the bookmark is no longer working. It was really striking. Josiah leaves frame and some people look and point off camera. Iirc, Jinger was the most animated looking one. When Josiah comes back in frame he's next to Boob and he's holding his arm and his eyes look a bit red. A couple of frames later and he's standing next to Mary behind Michelle and both Josiah and Mary are looking daggers in Boob's direction.

Michelle's announcement was huge. Why go to a series of still shots unless something untoward happened? It makes no sense stylistically and takes away from the big moment. I wish I'd taken screenshots of the album.

If anyone wants to try and find it, the address was imageshack.us/g/508/shot1c.jpg Someone more savvy than me might be able to get it to work.

Since you had the link...if you goto the wayback machine, you can see SOME of the thumbnails from the original album:

https://web.archive.org/web/20111116124 ... hot1c.jpg/

[Seven Severn]

Since you had the link...if you goto the wayback machine, you can see SOME of the thumbnails from the original album:

https://web.archive.org/web/20111116124 ... hot1c.jpg/

Dawbs, you're a genius! Thank you!!!! :worship:

ETA: I wonder why some of the thumbnails are gone? The most incriminating ones aren't showing up.

[TRexGurl]

What is the name of the episode that this supposedly takes place? I am looking on NetFlix and a Duggar Loss is listed but I don't see one for the announcement.

ETA: Apparently the edited episode is Season 8 Episode 10. My memory tells me that the original was everyone sitting around on the couches not a photoshoot?

[Mama Mia]

We'll I'm going to be all Pollyanna on this issue ( Damn! That's what I should of changed my screen name to!)

Anyway, when I saw it I thought Josiah was upset by the announcement and ran off. It looked to me like some of his siblings were saying " Josiah, don't" in an exasperated sibling sort of way. As in " Josiah, stop being such a brat you'll upset mom" or " Josiah, do you have to be so freaking sensitive about everything!"

To me it looked like Jim Bob was saying " hey guys," in a " hey, leave your brother alone" kind of tone and then went and comforted Josiah briefly and brought him back.

Josiah does seem like a sensitive thoughtful kid and he would of been 13 ish when Josie was born, a hard age for having your mom gone for a long time. Also a kid in that age range who is thoughtful and hormonal is old enough to be really scared and understand the risk, but not necessarily old enough to hide it for his mom's sake.

[Hisey]

As others have said, Josie's birth must have been really traumatic for all the kids. Wasn't Michelle air-lifted to the hospital? )Or was that a later gall bladder incident?) In any event, it was clear she almost died. And the months that followed must have been chaotic for the family.

I mean, what did Josiah do all day in Little Rock, while Michelle hung out at the hospital and Jim Bob met with TLC executives? There weren't even computers there for quite a while, which means he couldn't do schoolwork. It's not his job to take care of the littles or cook. John David and Joseph stayed behind, so there were no older brothers to hang out with. It must have been a lonely and scary and boring time.

After Josie recovered, the Duggars made no secret of the fact that they were trying and hoping for a twentieth baby. So this announcement could've been something Josiah was fearing and dreading. On the other hand, for JB and Michelle, it is the culmination of all they'd been hoping for--a twentieth baby. They were imagining news crews, lots of attention from the media, lot of money.

So I think Josiah and Jim Bob were definitely at cross purposes. But I don't think Jim Bob is an abusive father, he just doesn't seem like one.

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

I was shocked to read that the ALERT program can be almost a year long. That is a very long time to be put in that sort of a situation and I am sure most young people would simply comply and start giving the answers they know the leaders want to make it more bearable.

[Mrs.Right]

I'm sure this has already been addressed, but if Josiah is more sensitive about things, I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate that this is why he was at ALERT for so long. His family probably looked at his sensitivity to things as a girly thing and was sent to ALERT to overcome those sensitive feelings. :angry-banghead:

[Coconut Flan]

Jim Bob has been said by his own family to have a temper. I can completely see him losing it with a kid.

[Cats B4 Quivers]

Josiah does seem like a more sensitive and thoughtful kid compared with his older brothers and The Howlers. I think it was in 16 kac or maybe 17 kac that Josiah was in nearly every shot and loved discussing Duggardom and the most talkative of the older boys excepting Smuggar. He kinda reminded me of Smuggar since JD and Joseph come off as a couple of mumblers but more aware of what the younger kids were up to day-to-day.

Then *poof* after the around the world trip, Josiah pretty much vanished. Studying? I can't imagine the SOTDRT is all that challenging. I hoped he had run away to a nice, public school attending family and was busy studying AP courses. No such luck, it appears. My sadder guess was Jim Boob had separated Josiah out and sent him to one of those fundie rehabilitation places to re-educate him for not drinking the fundie koolaid as deeply as he should.

Someone needs to help that boy escape and send him to a state college far, far away from his cult, oops, family.

[It'sFunToRun]

Everyone automatically thinks of boot-camp programs as being miserable punishment, but I enjoyed basic training (mostly), and I've talked to a lot of other soldiers who enjoyed basic training. Mostly it depends on who the instructors are; just because they yell a lot and make you do push-ups doesn't mean they are abusive or that they don't care about you.

I want to point out that Josiah might actually be enjoying ALERT training and be grateful for his time away from home if he was fighting with JB or just tired of the freak show.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Everyone automatically thinks of boot-camp programs as being miserable punishment, but I enjoyed basic training (mostly), and I've talked to a lot of other soldiers who enjoyed basic training. Mostly it depends on who the instructors are; just because they yell a lot and make you do push-ups doesn't mean they are abusive or that they don't care about you.

I want to point out that Josiah might actually be enjoying ALERT training and be grateful for his time away from home if he was fighting with JB or just tired of the freak show.

ALERT isn't boot camp. ALERT is abusive camp. They make the boys do things like hike exceptionally long distances with little water and no food while carrying exceptionally heavy packs, among many other hideous things. Boot camp for the military is meant to tear people down to a point when they realize they're all the same, then build them back up. The purpose of this is to make sure the soldiers behave as a unit and follow orders. ALERT training tears the campers down with no intent on building them back up. Their purpose is to make them compliant. It's like a grown up version of the Pearls method.

[Tangy Bee]

Everyone automatically thinks of boot-camp programs as being miserable punishment, but I enjoyed basic training (mostly), and I've talked to a lot of other soldiers who enjoyed basic training. Mostly it depends on who the instructors are; just because they yell a lot and make you do push-ups doesn't mean they are abusive or that they don't care about you.

I want to point out that Josiah might actually be enjoying ALERT training and be grateful for his time away from home if he was fighting with JB or just tired of the freak show.

I kind of agree with this but I also think Josiah did ALERT for "manhood" reasons. Maybe he did it to prove he's tough to impress others including himself :think:

[16strong]

I kind of agree with this but I also think Josiah did ALERT for "manhood" reasons. Maybe he did it to prove he's tough to impress others including himself :think:

I think this as well. If Josiah was not forced to attend, I think he went to keep his parents off his back. I also think that by now ALERT has become an expected rite of passage for teenage Duggar boys.

[TheEnglishButterfly]

I've never heard of this ALERT camp, so all duggar boys have done it? I feel bad for josiah. I never saw the clip but I'm sure a great majority of the kids are sick of being parents and needing to schedule time with their parents.

I read Something about one of the girls recently going to a reprogramming camp...... who was that and what happened, anyone know??

I feel for all those kids..... makes me sad, Ya Know? And they don't really know any better and the cycle will continue with their kids :(

[RosyDaisy]

I think Joy went to Journey to the Heart last year, maybe? And Jana was a JTTH leader not long ago? But, all of the Duggar girls have been on JTTH.

[It'sFunToRun]

ALERT isn't boot camp. ALERT is abusive camp. They make the boys do things like hike exceptionally long distances with little water and no food while carrying exceptionally heavy packs, among many other hideousthings. Boot camp for the military is meant to tear people down to a poîint when they realize they're all the same, then build them back up. The purpose of this is to make sure the soldiers behave as a unit and follow orders. ALERT training tears the campers down with no intent on building them back up. Their purpose is to make them compliant. It's like a grown up version of the Pearls method.

Lol, in real military they check that everybody's' water is full before you go on hikes, and if it's not you fill it up and get punishment.

[halcionne]

ALERT isn't boot camp. ALERT is abusive camp. They make the boys do things like hike exceptionally long distances with little water and no food while carrying exceptionally heavy packs, among many other hideous things. Boot camp for the military is meant to tear people down to a point when they realize they're all the same, then build them back up. The purpose of this is to make sure the soldiers behave as a unit and follow orders. ALERT training tears the campers down with no intent on building them back up. Their purpose is to make them compliant. It's like a grown up version of the Pearls method.

Agree 100%. I'll just leave this here. alertacademy.com/alert/blog/category/training/

Josiah and Skylar were in Unit 51.

[madpsych78]

I think from what I have read here and there, JD was the only Duggar boy who has not attended ALERT. Correct me if I am wrong.

But, if JD never attended ALERT, does that mean he has drunk the most Koolaid of the boys?