Homeschool blogger wants "No Happiness or Peace" for child

[VVV]

Heather Sanders is to Christianity what Pioneer Woman is to food.

I remember a blog post long ago when her kids made valentine cards and she posted one this daughter made. Turns out mommy's little angel had plagiarized the design from another site and took credit for it herself. When called out by the internet, Heather gave a non-apology and basically blew the whole thing off. I guess intellectual property theft was a gateway sin to running away!

The people ultimately responsible for that theft were Heather Sanders herself, who as a web designer most certainly should have known better, and Ree Drummond, who allowed it on the blog. The daughter, who was 15 at the time, evidently never had the opportunity to learn that plagiarism was wrong, since it seemed to be A-OK with her own mother.

themarlborowoman.com/2012/02/the-pioneer-woman-heavens-to-etsy/

[Maggie Mae]

So sad. Shouldn't she ask people to pray for her daughter's safety or something? How is hoping that your child is not happy or peaceful in anyway love?

[RosyDaisy]

Wow...just wow. How can any parent wish bad things for their kids? I'm not a parent, but I have unconditional love for my family, including my sister's kids. I don't care what they do in life...good or bad. They are my family. No way in hell would I ever turn my back on them or wish them harm....EVER!

[itsnikki05]

I can't begin to fathom what life with a teenage daughter will be like. At nearly 7 she is sassy as hell, I can not imagine that getting any better.. but no matter what, I love my daughter and want happiness for her. I don't understand what can turn a parent from their child. I carried that girl inside me for 9 months and 2 weeks. There is NOTHING that will make me stop loving her. She will always be mine. I can't understand how a mother feels any different. I wonder if there's any mental illness there or if she's saying it out of anger.

[itsnikki05]

As far as parents not liking a bf/gf....

My mother-in-law took an instant dislike to me, to the point where (as I found out later) she was begging my then-fiance to reconsider. We've been happily married for 24 years now. Sometimes mother doesn't know best.

Ha.. my mom still doesn't like my husband. She does grudgingly respect him for taking care of us.

[Mama Mia]

I can't begin to fathom what life with a teenage daughter will be like. At nearly 7 she is sassy as hell, I can not imagine that getting any better.. but no matter what, I love my daughter and want happiness for her. I don't understand what can turn a parent from their child. I carried that girl inside me for 9 months and 2 weeks. There is NOTHING that will make me stop loving her. She will always be mine. I can't understand how a mother feels any different. I wonder if there's any mental illness there or if she's saying it out of anger.

I'm sure the mom is completely distraught and panicking and worried and also saying things in anger. I think that's totally normal. But not on her very visible very public blog complete with pictures. I could even grant her some slack if she had posted it in a fit of angst and then quickly removed it as soon as someone pointed out to her that it was a really, really bad idea. But instead she's defending it and has even posted more about the situation.

I've had some very tough to raise teens, and have often fucked up royally, but I can't imagine continuing to vent so publicly about an issue I was having with my near adult daughter. And I especially can't imagine defending that kind of comment without any explanation or apology or modification - she didn't even give a " I was really upset when I wrote that post, of course I love my daughter unconditionally and wish her happiness " or something to show that she feels her daughter really can be happy even if she doesn't follow the path mom chose.

Personally, I don't blame her for the kid running away because of lack of communication in the home. I had some kids who made horrible decisions during their teens and had me worried sick from puberty until adulthood and I had kids who were very, very private about their lives and would only share information under torture --- but they weren't the same kids.

[LittleOleMe]

I'm really beginning to think this was/is all a ploy for attention. Other bloggers are now discussing her and her bullshit, saying how horrible she is. All attention is good attention right? She hasn't written anything since Saturday. I'm really curious as to what she'll do next. I'd love for Emelie to write her own blog and defend herself while throwing her mother under the bus. That would be awesome.

[nokidsmom]

All attention is good attention right?

Maybe she will learn otherwise if bloggers are now reacting negatively. I would think she probably posted what she did expecting lots of validation and sympathy, not having it backfire.

Unfortunately, this may backfire in a lot more ways than just getting criticized on blogs. Her relationship with her daughter is at stake (and possibly with her future grandchildren) and if she thinks it's bad now, she's going to feel it even more in the future when her daughter not only doesn't come home, but stays away and thrives in spite of it all.

[louisa05]

The whole wanting children or other loved ones to be unhappy is not unusual. A lot of the fundagelicals I worked with believed that if a person "walked away from God" they needed to "hit bottom" somehow in order to come back. I had a younger cousin whose life was one disaster after another while I worked at Christian school and was advised more than once that I should pray that she "hit rock bottom" in order to find Jesus.

On top of that, the whole "my life was a horrible mess" testimony is very popular. Some of the kids I taught at that school felt badly that having been raised in happy homes and in church from infancy meant that they "didn't have a good testimony". And the embellishment of testimonies to make the "before Jesus" part worse is not unusual either. A youth pastor that frequently did chapel at that school progressed gradually from growing up in a pretty average Christmas/Easter only Catholic family and drinking a bit in high school to telling stories of paganism, abusive parents and serious drug addiction before he "found Jesus" and charismatic Christianity. His real story just wasn't compelling enough to stir up an audience's emotions.

[DGayle]

I read her blog and I'd be worried, too. It sounds as if the parents were not too thrilled about the guy. I have no idea what happened here, but as a general rule, family and friends ought to like the boyfriend or girlfriend, in my experience. If the people closest to you don't like him or her, find out why. They may have valid reasons. If this girl is 17 she is under age. I would not be comfortable for my 17 year old to date a 21 year old. A four year age difference is too much at those ages. (I also didn't like the idea of David Brown marrying...Monica?, I think. He was only 17 as I recall and she was 22 or 23? Maybe even worse since boys tend to mature later. But I digress.) Anyway, I can't fault the mom for being worried. This isn't an issue of too much parental control to me, but one of she is under age and left home to live with an older guy. Has she graduated from high school or home school? Does she have a job or is she dependent on him? Does he isolate her? There are a lot of possibilities here, and as a parent who did have a child date a controlling, abusive guy, this sets off alarm bells for me. Also, judging from the photos on the blog, the parents appear to let the kids have quite a bit of freedom. The mom says the daughter is an independent thinker. At least it doesn't sound like an ATI/VF type of parenting.

The vibe I'm getting is that Mommy Dearest doesn't approve of anyone who isn't her brand of Christian. She won't even accept her daughter back into her life unless the daughter repents and tries to make it right with the brand of religion Mommy approves of. Someone who would prefer to have no daughter than one who isn't in the exact same frame of religion doesn't strike me as someone who would ever approve of a boyfriend who wasn't in that frame, no matter how good and decent the boyfriend is.

There's a lot she isn't telling us, which leaves a lot to speculation. Maybe the boyfriend let the girl move in because she wanted to get away from a home where religion was forced on her. Maybe the girl begged him. We don't know.

[DGayle]

In the realm of "scary comments" on the post: "I have my own Emily, 15 years, who causes me much heartache as well. They are very alike in that they are both artsy, march-to-their-own-beat type girls. Depression, cutting, bulimia, extreme-in-your-face-defiance, refusal to do schoolwork to the point that she is almost two years behind – it’s enough to make this homeschool momma throw up her hands and give up. But God! That is all I can say. I so don’t get His ways but I have to learn to live with them. It seems very strange to pray that one’s own child suffer the consequences of her bad choices, but that is where I am at with her. I will pray for you and for your Emilie. I will pray that God protects your hearts and minds from the lies that Satan tries to bombard you with, and that Christ’s love would shine through the darkness and turn her heart back to Him and to you.

If your child is 15, depressed, cutting, and bulimic, you should NOT want her to suffer the consequences of her bad choices. You should be GETTING THEM HELP. It's not god teaching you anything. It's your child screaming out for help in every way possible.

With a mom praying for her to suffer, that 15-year-old is going to die.

[DGayle]

I saw this earlier and had to stick my 2 cents in..."mom of a few"....this bitch makes me a wee bit crazy (like wanting to confront her in person and let her have it crazy)

You're Mom of a Few?! I was going to bring up your replies since they were very good!

[DGayle]

Not only that but she has posted THREE separate posts about this. THREE! She posted the one that was linked and then another full of pictures with random "I love you" "we love you" "come home" mixed in and then another where she doesn't directly come out and say it's about her daughter but it clearly is.

And you're right. She never says anything about WHY her daughter feels the way she does. My mother used to do this, too. "I know you hate me, but .." "I know you don't like me, but .." One day I finally said "You always say that but you never ask why" She was just dumbfounded. It never occurred to her to think of anyone but herself. That's exactly what this mom sounds like. She doesn't care about her daughter outside of how it makes her feel and look. That's not an easy situation to grow up in, and if this guy is giving her the proper attention and making her feel special, then I don't blame her for leaving. She may regret it later, but thanks to her mother publicly shaming and bullying her, she will probably never admit it, making her even more miserable and unhappy, essentially making her mother's predictions come true.

I hope Emilie finds happiness with this guy, partly because it would shut her mom up, but more because it does sound like she's never had any real acceptance of who she is. No 17-year-old should feel the need to run away.

[DGayle]

Wow, this reminds me of when my sister (probably around 30 at the time?) moved back into our parents' home with her toddler daughter. She and my mom got into it over something, and my mom attacked her. My dad eventually stepped in, and my sister just ran, in her PJs. She got as far as the front door before realizing she didn't have her daughter, but by then, my mom had her and wouldn't give her back. Kicked my sister out alone and kept the kid. Told my sister that she'd report her for abandonment and neglect. Of course my sister believed it because we'd been raised with such a warped idea of the government.

This is horrifying. I hope your sister got her daughter back.

[DGayle]

Mother's right here

Mother will protect you

Darling, here's what I suggest

Skip the drama

Stay with mama

Mother knows best

Go ahead, get trampled by a rhino

Go ahead, get mugged and left for dead

Me, I'm just your mother, what do I know?

I only bathed and changed and nursed you

Go ahead and leave me, I deserve it

Let me die alone here, be my guest

When it's too late, you'll see, just wait

Mother knows best

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of Gothel.

[DGayle]

I do understand the worry as well. I don't have kids either but if my 17 year old daughter did this, I would be worried no matter what. What gets me here is shaming her daughter publicly over this all the while whining about others will think when she has put the situation out there for all to see. This woman is milking for attention for all it's worth, first in hopes that her daughter will see the error of her ways and come home to her proper place, but failing that, she's punishing her.

Re: boyfriend and girlfriends: parents not liking a bf or gf can depend on a lot of things, some valid, some not. And they can miss the mark. My folks generally liked my boyfriends but still there was always that little bit of disapproval ranging from "he's Catholic" to "he's not doing enough for you" or "he lives too far"...there was always something. Now, my boyfriends were pretty much as nice and square as they came so they were really scraping the bottom of the barrel for criticism as far as I was concerned. This woman sounds like she probably disapprove of a boyfriend not matter what. And calling him a "false prophet" is totally cray cray.

I had an ex whose stepmom didn't like me because I wasn't Asian, like her. Funny enough, neither was my ex. She eventually drove us apart since my ex didn't want to disappoint Mommy. A few years back he e-mailed me and told me that breaking it off with me for a woman his stepmom wanted him to date was the biggest mistake of his life, and that he doesn't feel like he deserves to be happy for what he did to me. He respected that I'm married, and hadn't tried weaseling his way back in, so no red flags.

I believe that people who live their lives trying to please their parents are almost always going to have misery in their lives. This is why I don't think the Maxwell girls can really be very happy.

[DGayle]

Heather Sanders is to Christianity what Pioneer Woman is to food.

I remember a blog post long ago when her kids made valentine cards and she posted one this daughter made. Turns out mommy's little angel had plagiarized the design from another site and took credit for it herself. When called out by the internet, Heather gave a non-apology and basically blew the whole thing off. I guess intellectual property theft was a gateway sin to running away!

Depending on how old the child was, I can see a kid finding a design they like, drawing it themselves, then saying "I made this!" and believing it since they DID draw it with their own hand. If one of my girls did this, I wouldn't see it as intellectual property theft. They're not even old enough to know what that is. They'd just think that making it with crayons, even if the design is a copy, is something they did all on their own. I guess I see this for kids as similar to adults making cake from a box mix, and telling someone they made it themselves.

Edit: I just saw that the daughter was 15. Should have read one more reply. That's old enough to know the difference. If she was 5, no problem. 15 is old enough to know better.

[nokidsmom]

I had an ex whose stepmom didn't like me because I wasn't Asian, like her. Funny enough, neither was my ex. She eventually drove us apart since my ex didn't want to disappoint Mommy. A few years back he e-mailed me and told me that breaking it off with me for a woman his stepmom wanted him to date was the biggest mistake of his life, and that he doesn't feel like he deserves to be happy for what he did to me. He respected that I'm married, and hadn't tried weaseling his way back in, so no red flags.

I believe that people who live their lives trying to please their parents are almost always going to have misery in their lives. This is why I don't think the Maxwell girls can really be very happy.

+1. There was that turning point for me that either I could live my life as I was envisioning for myself and be happy, risks and all (including becoming the "bad daughter"), or focus on pleasing Mom and Dad, live according to the safe, predictable life that they wanted (the choice they made for themselves and no one interfered, BTW) and be miserable. I have personally watched one sister do all that Mom and Dad wanted (she's the good daughter, you know) and it's clear as day how miserable she and her husband are. My other sister, who married in her mid-30s and remained at home until then, was darn near suicidal in her last couple of years at home and even now she agonizes over what my parents think.

Regarding the Maxwells girls, yes, they will never be happy. Even if they do marry, the parents will still have an intense hold over them. The emotional hold and control that these types of parents hold over their adult children is not to be underestimated. I think these parents can't let their kids go but know they have no legal authority to do so they resort to intensive levels of fear, obligation and guilt to emotionally manipulate the kids into doing what they want. It's incredibly hard to withstand at the time and usually only later do the kids wake up to what's really going on, if ever.

@DGayle, interesting that your ex contacted you to express his regrets. Too bad he feels that he shouldn't be happy because of what happened. The past can't be changed but the future can be.

[Odd1Out]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of Gothel.

Definitely fits her, I agree. I remember Manda Dixon referring to Jacque as Gothel as well. Very true of her too it seems.

[Firiel]

Depending on how old the child was, I can see a kid finding a design they like, drawing it themselves, then saying "I made this!" and believing it since they DID draw it with their own hand. If one of my girls did this, I wouldn't see it as intellectual property theft. They're not even old enough to know what that is. They'd just think that making it with crayons, even if the design is a copy, is something they did all on their own. I guess I see this for kids as similar to adults making cake from a box mix, and telling someone they made it themselves.

Edit: I just saw that the daughter was 15. Should have read one more reply. That's old enough to know the difference. If she was 5, no problem. 15 is old enough to know better.

I looked at the link about the plagiarism incident posted earlier by VVV, and if that version of the blog is the original, she didn't take credit for the designs-- she fully admitted she was copying the designs from someone on Etsy. She didn't claim that she had created the designs in any way. NOW. That doesn't change the fact that copying the images (and ESPECIALLY trying to gain something by posting the process in a blog post) is plagiarism and wrong, but I think the blame lies solely on the adults. In my opinion, it's pretty normal for people of that age to not understand that citing your source does not necessarily make it okay. It's also pretty normal for them to copy designs others have created as means of practice. I mean, I offer a lot of slack to teenagers who do stuff like this because I know that in elementary/junior high, I was taught a lot of "rules" but was never taught the spirit behind them regarding plagiarism. I knew to give credit when things weren't my idea, but I certainly didn't know that giving credit isn't a bullet-proof vest. It was her mother's responsibility to say, "Hey, it's fine for you to practice making these other designs [or not-- I feel like opinions may vary], but you should create some designs of your own, and maybe you can do a guest post in so-and-so's blog about how you created them." And then to explain to her why it would be wrong for her to profit from someone else's ideas even if she was giving credit to them.

EDIT: Oh, sorry. I apparently suck at reading. I guess she didn't add the links until she was caught. That's what I get for skimming the blog that linked to the card-making fiasco.

[TrueRebel1]

I have read Heather's posts over on Pioneer Woman's blog from time to time over the past several years. (Because homeschooling or not, doing cool educational stuff with your kids intrigues me.) I always got a weird vibe from her posts. Maybe because it seemed like her kids had too much freedom in some areas -- like getting bizzare haircuts and gothic-style clothing (yeah, my 10 yr. old would have to adhere to some household standards!) -- and yet it seemed that the kids were too controlled in other areas. I don't even know how to describe it.

The ironic thing about this story, is how so many of the fundie/homeschooled pioneering parents began in a situation just like the daughter is getting into. Dig deep enough, and you'll quickly find out that those who preach purity and waiting for marriage and submitting to parental wisdom, are the very ones who once had live-in boyfriends, or an out-of-wedlock child, or a rocky young marriage. So my question is: Don't these parents have faith that God can turn around their child's "bad" choices, just like their lives have been turned around???

[ladyaudley]

aw man, I remember Emilie as a little girl in the early homeschool posts (2009, so she'd have been twelve)! what a shame. I hope the girl is safe and finds people who care about her. Ugh, I stopped reading PW for a whole host of reasons, but I never realised Heather was such a fundie.

[feministxtian]

You're Mom of a Few?! I was going to bring up your replies since they were very good!

Thanks...I really hate these parents who lose their shit over a rebellious kid...I commented on her blog and on Lori's blog as "Retired Navy Wife" a few times...until I think I've gotten blocked. Might have to do with poking holes in Lori's "logic" and Ken's bullshit....

[J'ean Skirt]

When I was 17, I dated a 21 year old. We dated for almost 7 years. At the time we were both in college, so we were in similar life phases, but I really don't see that huge a problem with it.

The mother's reaction, though... *shudder* That's the kind of BS my mother would pull (thank FSM she's not discovered blogging). I

[BekahJ]

I am shocked at how these parents who follow a religion whose entire message is basically "put others before yourself" cannot even see their own children as human beings. A parent who sees her child's bulimia or cutting as a personal attack on her? A parent who thinks that her 17 year old dating someone she dislikes is simply to spite her? And then to wish them no happiness or peace because they're not doing it their way. Even if the boyfriend is dangerous, what kind of results does she expect to get by publicly smiting her child?

This is just so at odds with the very basics of Christianity that it blows my mind. How do you supposedly devote your entire life to following a book and then go against its basic principles supposedly in defense said book? :angry-banghead: