Homeschool blogger wants "No Happiness or Peace" for child

[Emme]

aw man, I remember Emilie as a little girl in the early homeschool posts (2009, so she'd have been twelve)! what a shame. I hope the girl is safe and finds people who care about her. Ugh, I stopped reading PW for a whole host of reasons, but I never realised Heather was such a fundie.

Me too, now that you mention it. Oh that makes it even sadder.

[akeimi]

heathersanders.com/2014/05/16/what-they-do-when-they-leave-home/

Is this the place to share other wtf-ery from that blogger? The next post I clicked on was oozing coldness and negativity - she must be a lot of fun to be around. :oops:

Below a picture of several (I think three?) teenagers sharing a big order of fries:

Have I mentioned how I’m stocking the pantry and fridge lately? Poor little babies are obviously suffering.

Leaving home with friends means they eat what they choose. As you can see, they choose crap. Is there any other way to describe it?

replying to a comment about FitBit:

Gluten free, yes. But white potatoes? NOT A GOOD CHOICE. Also? My girls will probably beg me to buy them one. Okay, not Emelie; she tries to move as little as possible. HA!

1.5 posts in, and multiple commenters have mentioned Emelie having an actual eating disorder. It's so funny that your daughter isn't getting the fuel her body needs, HA! :angry-banghead:

[Hane]

Nuts! She closed the comments before I could read them--and edited the original post!

[BravaAmica]

Nuts! She closed the comments before I could read them--and edited the original post!

Which post did she edit? I'm sure someone, somewhere has access to the Wayback Machine, where it's original version is cached.

[theologygeek]

If the people closest to you don't like him or her, find out why. They may have valid reasons. If this girl is 17 she is under age. I would not be comfortable for my 17 year old to date a 21 year old. A four year age difference is too much at those ages.

Age never bothered me. Probably because there is a nine year age difference between my parents. My mother was 18 when she met my father, and 19 when she married. 18 and 27 is not much different from 17 and 26. They're still together all these years later. Age differences were not my hill to die on. A parent has to be very careful with a teenager, because if they forbid, it can backfire and things can go downhill. My kids are street smart because I made them be that way. The most a parent should do is teach them right from birth and let them go. The only thing I did stress was that if they chose someone who abused them, I'd kill the person. They knew that I was nuts and to not even go down that road.

[lawlifelgbt]

The comment about the 15 year old who cuts and has other problems made me so sad. If your child is physically harming herself, you HELP! You don't blog about how it's an attack on you. You have to get off the Internet, talk to your kid, apologize for not being there for her, and do anything you can to build a safe, trusting relationship with her again. Judging or punishing or your own feelings don't come into play at all. You have to stay calm no matter what your child does, show her she can trust you, and get her professional help. To be that safe, nonjudgmental person.

(I know this is true; when I was almost 17, I finally told my parents I had been self-harming. Unfortunately, though they did get me some help, there was this attitude of "we're ashamed, hide it. Don't talk about it with me. We're perfect, this is your problem." My mom was a teacher at my school, and she would even lie to the school about why I was gone when I had appointments, or try to make me schedule them less often so it was less suspicious. They also continued parenting as normal (read: high pressure, strict, concerned with their reputation) when what I really needed was an apology, change, and realizing that my well-being was more important than my grades or strictly enforcing every single rule).

It was a lot harder to get over, since I essentially had to do it with no support network. So hearing about another parent standing by and doing nothing makes me stabby.

[chaotic life]

If it helps at all lawwifelbgt, it makes me feel stabby to hear as well. I have two of mine who struggle with mental health issues, and I cannot imagine ignoring mental health struggles to that level. A child who is self harming is crying out for help and support and it breaks my mother's heart to consider that cry not being heard.

Yes, I've known kids who don't respond to the help given to them. But, ignoring the need for help is a huge failure on the part of a parent of any child struggling, and girls are at a much higher risk of self harming behaviors, which is also correlated to those who are more likely to attempt suicide as teens as well.

[lawlifelgbt]

Thanks, chaoticlife!

Ignoring your child like that can have long-term ramifications for your relationship with him/her too. If you don't act on the chance to help and rebuild things, they may learn you are not a person to trust, and stop telling you about any problems or personal stuff. Lack of support closes you off from them.

When I was in college, got depressed, and relapsed, I didn't tell my family. I swear one of the young, new, college librarians (we went to church and small group together too), who had gone thru similar things knew more about me at the time than my parents did.

ATM, I still haven't felt okay talking to my family, (even as I am now on the correct medication for depression and feel mostly better (and have almost stopped)), because of that initial failure the one time I did reach out for their help.

To sum up, how you respond when your child is hurting matters. I know my experiences are nothing like a fundie's, and I've kind of been TMI-ing all over the place, but I think I feel able to say that much.

[chaotic life]

lawlifelbgt, from the mother's perspective that I simply cannot share on the open internet, I can only 100% agree with you.

Not all parents ignore their children's struggles. Not all fundies to either, but having children with mental health issues is one of the biggest catalysts to exit fundia beliefs, because the idea that children can control their mental health struggles and you should beat them to motivate them to do is fundamentally a betray as a parent. I've known many fundies who left because it was either protect a child, or hold onto a flawed belief system that tore that child down instead of helping them.

It wasn't the only catalyst for my leaving, but it was part of it, and I made the right decision to choose my own value and the safety and well being of my children over those beliefs years ago now.

[VVV]

She took the post down.

–but, after weighing everything out, and speaking with those whose wisdom I trust, it seemed the best choice was to delete the post altogether.

Well, that only took a few weeks after multiple commenters (presumably whose wisdom she does not trust) implored her to take it down. :doh:

[BravaAmica]

She took the post down.

–but, after weighing everything out, and speaking with those whose wisdom I trust, it seemed the best choice was to delete the post altogether.

Well, that only took a few weeks after multiple commenters (presumably whose wisdom she does not trust) implored her to take it down. :doh:

Oh, but it's not like anyone has a screenshot. Or that many, many people (not just FJ, I saw a thread on reddit about this) on the internet were discussing it. So she took it down and it's all better now. /sarcasm.

May her daughter thrive and be so awesome that they can't ignore her.

[feministxtian]

And...I couldn't resist...

"So glad you chose to do what I and many others asked you to do. The only problem is that the post isn't really gone. It will live in cyberspace for those who are smart enough to find it. You came off quite arrogant by stating that we don't have the same world-view with the implication that you are right and I am wrong. What you failed to see was a mother who had been through some serious rebellion with her children, and by avoiding spouting off where many people (including the child) could read it, I was able to rebuild a relationship with the rebellious child. What you said was wrong, plain and simple. However, I still think you should have thought twice, maybe thrice before that post. I hope your daughter finds the peace and joy she is looking for...because I don't think she'll find it under your roof."

[neuroticcat]

I am shocked at how these parents who follow a religion whose entire message is basically "put others before yourself" cannot even see their own children as human beings. A parent who sees her child's bulimia or cutting as a personal attack on her? A parent who thinks that her 17 year old dating someone she dislikes is simply to spite her? And then to wish them no happiness or peace because they're not doing it their way. Even if the boyfriend is dangerous, what kind of results does she expect to get by publicly smiting her child?

This is just so at odds with the very basics of Christianity that it blows my mind. How do you supposedly devote your entire life to following a book and then go against its basic principles supposedly in defense said book? :angry-banghead:

I think you've nailed it. These parents to not see their children as separate human beings. It's narcissitic parenting, and I think it's rampant in the fundie-verse and conservative parenting circles. Add to it the idea of parents as "authority" and you have two absolute monarchs ruling over the kids. Gross.

[Jasmar]

This reminds me of what my mom did to my sister when she escaped to live with our dad at age 15. This was pre-internet days (thank goodness, for my sister's sake), but my mom trotted out her story of woe to everyone who would listen, including the school and the police. We'd known our mom was nuts all our lives, but we'd never heard the term "narcissistic personality disorder." But yes, not viewing us as separate people was key to understanding our mom's brand of craziness.

This is the same mom who, instead of protecting me when, at 17, I was in a toxic relationship with a 21-y-o, took me to get birth control pills and didn't care whether I was home or not...unless she wanted something from me, in which case I was expected to read her mind and materialize to provide it. I wasted a year and a half on that creep, during which time I was treated for STDs, exposed to constant drinking and drug use, and emotionally battered. This wasn't a blue collar relationship, either, but one that looked "good" on paper.

Which bring me to, I don't think 17/21 is a great match generally, because of the power differential. Four years isn't much in the adult world, but the same span between high school and college is huge. I think a lot of 17-y-o girls are flattered to think they can attract an older guy. And the older guys know that. I've been doing a LOT of reading lately on the dynamics of abusive relationships (not specifically violent, but controlling and unhealthy), and the power differential is key.

So I totally get the concern over the daughter. But it sounds to me that the concern is more for the rebellion than the lack of safety, which is unconscionable.

[DGayle]

All those comments on the new post, about how loving she is. There is no love when you attempt to publicly humiliate your daughter because she tried being her own person in a house of oppression.

[antwan]

Also, judging from the photos on the blog, the parents appear to let the kids have quite a bit of freedom. The mom says the daughter is an independent thinker. At least it doesn't sound like an ATI/VF type of parenting.

I agree. It appears, at least as much as one can gather from photos, that this daughter was indeed given freedom to express herself safely within her home and family life.

[feministxtian]

I commented...she attempted to refute me again...stupid little bitch

[Fenchurch]

I have a thirteen year old daughter, and OMG do we talk. About everything and constantly.

C (my daughter) has a friend (M) who is 14 years old. M is dating a 19 year old boy. C and I have talked extensively about why she would not be allowed to do that, and more importantly my reasons WHY I would be uncomfortable with it.

19 year old boys have different worlds to 14 year old girls. Expectations, the ABILITY to have the same emotion response. Etc. Etc.

I am shocked every time I think about, I just get shivers up my spine.

Most shocking of all..... The parents are 100% comfortable with it, because it's a boy from church. Because, as we all know, boys from church never pressure girls into sex, alcohol, drugs or worse :roll:

As for this woman, and most fundies, unconditional love is not a thing with them. My mom only loved me conditionally and it's not fun. My daughter knows that while I may occasionally be disappointed, angry, hurt, frustrated with her I will ALWAYS love her. ALWAYS. Even if I disagree with her, or if she is wrong I will be in her corner. To catch her when she falls and to applaud her when she succeeds. That's just what moms are supposed to do.

[DGayle]

I shouldn't even be surprised that she didn't let my comment through. I told her what happened when my mother used everything within her power to try publicly shaming me when I was 18, for the great sin of trying to be my own person. I guess she didn't want to hear about how that led to the demise of any chance, and a total estrangement.

[Coco]

I shouldn't even be surprised that she didn't let my comment through. I told her what happened when my mother used everything within her power to try publicly shaming me when I was 18, for the great sin of trying to be my own person. I guess she didn't want to hear about how that led to the demise of any chance, and a total estrangement.

At least, she read it... hopefully it will help her see where she went wrong.

[Peas n carrots]

I have been following this thread but haven't commented yet. Boy oh boy is this triggering.

Although I agree that a 17 yo moving in with her 21 yo boyfriend is generally a bad idea, I can sympathize being a daughter trying to get out from under a narcissistic mother and doing it in any way possible. If the mother was willing to publicly humiliate her daughter on her blog, imagine what must have been going on at home?

By outward appearances I lived in a nice home, and my family wasn't poor. I did have the typical amount of teenage freedom. However my mother saw nearly everything I said and did as something oppositional to her and we were constantly fighting...the tension was unbearable. At a fairly young age I had made a decision to do as well as possible in school so I could go to college and the minute I graduated from high school I packed my bags and lived out of boxes until I could move into dorms.

But even then the attempts to control didn't stop. I got into a fender bender my second semester of college driving from my exbf's apartment to my part time job. Although I made the car payments, I was on their insurance so it was reasonable for them to be pissed, but then it became a knock down drag out fight when they found out I was staying at exbf's place before the accident. A variety of hurtful things were said to me about sleeping with other men. Then they made the requirement that if I was to stay in school (the school they chose for me to go to no less even though I had nearly full ride scholarships to other places - another control thing) that I needed to stick to their unreasonable set of requirements (curfews, no dating , being available at various times to take calls). I was 19, and I couldn't take it anymore so I ended up withdrawing from school, moving in with my exbf and not talking to my family for a year. I re-enrolled in another school and made sure to pay my own way from there on out - that way there would be no strings attached. I realized that they couldn't legally micromanage my life.

I know it sounds like I was an ungrateful twat - hey, my parents were paying for me to go to school! They paid for my insurance - how awesome! - but the strings that were attached for being financially tied to them were unbearable and required me to be bullied by my parents. Yes in some ways it set me back in life to have gone the route I did (like taking 7 years to get through college and living with a crappy bf) but I don't regret it. It was the first time in my life I could stand up for myself and say "I'm not going to take it." So I can understand why this blogger's 17 yo daughter would want to GTHO at her first opportunity. It's obvious this mother has no issues with bullying her child in public...so I can't imagine how unbearable it was when the daughter was still living at home.

Also, during a later incident I was lied about and thrown under the bus by my mother (I think in her mind, to make herself look better to everyone) to my entire family...although we are on OK terms right now our relationship has never been the same. To this day I don't trust her as far as I can throw her, and I do not give her too personal of details about my life. I've apologized for my mistakes - I certainly had my share of fuck ups - I've never received a real apology for anything from her either. I guess you can say I've partially forgiven, but I have not forgot how during certain incidents she was vindictive and cruel. It's probably the one greatest pain in my life that I have never been able to have a close relationship with my mother, and I wouldn't wish that upon anyone. I hope this blogger and her daughter can sort through the damage one day, but that would mean the blogger would have to subsume her huge ego in order to have a chance at a meaningful relationship.

[chaotic life]

Peas and carrots, my story is so similar to yours it's eerie. All I can tell you is that I heal inside myself every day that I parent my own children BETTER than what I was given. In my case, I nearly married an abusive boyfriend at 19 because my NPD mother pushed and pushed hard for me to do so. I too switched schools, changed majors to nursing so I could get away from their pursestrings as fast as possible and eventually had to cut the woman out of my life entirely.

[Firiel]

Peas and carrots, my story is so similar to yours it's eerie. All I can tell you is that I heal inside myself every day that I parent my own children BETTER than what I was given. In my case, I nearly married an abusive boyfriend at 19 because my NPD mother pushed and pushed hard for me to do so. I too switched schools, changed majors to nursing so I could get away from their pursestrings as fast as possible and eventually had to cut the woman out of my life entirely.

I can relate. I was a "perfect" daughter for years... just happily compliant and easy-going. The second I made a choice for myself that my mother wasn't happy with (at the age of 20, no less!), shit hit the fan. It was incredibly painful to feel like I was only worth something as long as I was who she wanted me to be. Things have since gotten better, but I will never have a completely open relationship with her again. I don't think she has NPD by any means, but I do think that she has some narcissistic characteristics, specifically in seeing and valuing her children as a reflection of her.

The thing we disagreed on was actually a man. And I did end up marrying him. A few years later after things have fallen apart, I strongly suggest he has full-on NPD. I don't want to shift blame, and I try to fully take responsibility of the decisions I made-- I married him, and I should have known better. But sometimes I wonder if I would have done so if I hadn't felt pushed away by my parents and if some of his narcissistic qualities hadn't seemed so familiar and normal.

[Mama Mia]

This reminds me of what my mom did to my sister when she escaped to live with our dad at age 15. This was pre-internet days (thank goodness, for my sister's sake), but my mom trotted out her story of woe to everyone who would listen, including the school and the police. We'd known our mom was nuts all our lives, but we'd never heard the term "narcissistic personality disorder." But yes, not viewing us as separate people was key to understanding our mom's brand of craziness.

This is the same mom who, instead of protecting me when, at 17, I was in a toxic relationship with a 21-y-o, took me to get birth control pills and didn't care whether I was home or not...unless she wanted something from me, in which case I was expected to read her mind and materialize to provide it. I wasted a year and a half on that creep, during which time I was treated for STDs, exposed to constant drinking and drug use, and emotionally battered. This wasn't a blue collar relationship, either, but one that looked "good" on paper.

Which bring me to, I don't think 17/21 is a great match generally, because of the power differential. Four years isn't much in the adult world, but the same span between high school and college is huge. I think a lot of 17-y-o girls are flattered to think they can attract an older guy. And the older guys know that. I've been doing a LOT of reading lately on the dynamics of abusive relationships (not specifically violent, but controlling and unhealthy), and the power differential is key.

So I totally get the concern over the daughter. But it sounds to me that the concern is more for the rebellion than the lack of safety, which is unconscionable.

I've got to point out that while it's really unfortunate you had that bad experience with a boyfriend it probably would have been much worse if your mother HADN'T taken you to get birth control and you ended up having a child with him.

[ladyamylynn]

I have been following this thread but haven't commented yet. Boy oh boy is this triggering.

Although I agree that a 17 yo moving in with her 21 yo boyfriend is generally a bad idea, I can sympathize being a daughter trying to get out from under a narcissistic mother and doing it in any way possible. If the mother was willing to publicly humiliate her daughter on her blog, imagine what must have been going on at home?

By outward appearances I lived in a nice home, and my family wasn't poor. I did have the typical amount of teenage freedom. However my mother saw nearly everything I said and did as something oppositional to her and we were constantly fighting...the tension was unbearable. At a fairly young age I had made a decision to do as well as possible in school so I could go to college and the minute I graduated from high school I packed my bags and lived out of boxes until I could move into dorms.

But even then the attempts to control didn't stop. I got into a fender bender my second semester of college driving from my exbf's apartment to my part time job. Although I made the car payments, I was on their insurance so it was reasonable for them to be pissed, but then it became a knock down drag out fight when they found out I was staying at exbf's place before the accident. A variety of hurtful things were said to me about sleeping with other men. Then they made the requirement that if I was to stay in school (the school they chose for me to go to no less even though I had nearly full ride scholarships to other places - another control thing) that I needed to stick to their unreasonable set of requirements (curfews, no dating , being available at various times to take calls). I was 19, and I couldn't take it anymore so I ended up withdrawing from school, moving in with my exbf and not talking to my family for a year. I re-enrolled in another school and made sure to pay my own way from there on out - that way there would be no strings attached. I realized that they couldn't legally micromanage my life.

I know it sounds like I was an ungrateful twat - hey, my parents were paying for me to go to school! They paid for my insurance - how awesome! - but the strings that were attached for being financially tied to them were unbearable and required me to be bullied by my parents. Yes in some ways it set me back in life to have gone the route I did (like taking 7 years to get through college and living with a crappy bf) but I don't regret it. It was the first time in my life I could stand up for myself and say "I'm not going to take it." So I can understand why this blogger's 17 yo daughter would want to GTHO at her first opportunity. It's obvious this mother has no issues with bullying her child in public...so I can't imagine how unbearable it was when the daughter was still living at home.

Also, during a later incident I was lied about and thrown under the bus by my mother (I think in her mind, to make herself look better to everyone) to my entire family...although we are on OK terms right now our relationship has never been the same. To this day I don't trust her as far as I can throw her, and I do not give her too personal of details about my life. I've apologized for my mistakes - I certainly had my share of fuck ups - I've never received a real apology for anything from her either. I guess you can say I've partially forgiven, but I have not forgot how during certain incidents she was vindictive and cruel. It's probably the one greatest pain in my life that I have never been able to have a close relationship with my mother, and I wouldn't wish that upon anyone. I hope this blogger and her daughter can sort through the damage one day, but that would mean the blogger would have to subsume her huge ego in order to have a chance at a meaningful relationship.

Are you me? This sounds SO much like my family. My older sister, unfortunately, took the brunt of my father's extreme narcissism. Long story short, I haven't spoken to him in five years and I couldn't be happier with my decision. (This after he decided to skip my wedding with no notice because my mother was going to be there.)