Seriously, is Josie okay?

[Ella]

What's up with those movements Josie was making in the TH with Jordyn and Jenny in "A Duggar Says..."? While her sisters commented that Derick was handsome and that Jill loved him, Josie there in the middle was nonverbal and making very weird grunts and gestures. She looked almost autistic.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I wasn't really sure how to interpret that. Either she was really trying to swat at something only she could see (I didn't see any bugs buzzing around, myself), or she was deliberately trying to take the focus off her sisters talking by being disruptive because she wasn't the center of attention.

I sort of think it's the latter. In a recent episode, Josie sat between her other two sisters, crossed her arms, pulled horrible faces, and didn't say a word while her sisters spoke. Historically, Josie has had a habit of dominating during the talking heads. Jordyn and Jenny don't get a word in edge-wise because Josie talks over them. Since there's a new director on board, I'm guessing he's told Josie to be quiet when her sisters talk so we can hear what they think once in awhile.

I remember hearing an old story about Diana Ross and the Supremes. Ross was always in the center during shows, but there were rumors that she would deliberately raise her arms and pull them back in a certain way while she danced so as to obscure the faces of the other two Supremes while they performed. Josie raising her arms and swatting at the bug reminded me of that story, but I could be reading too much into it. :wink-kitty:

[N The Prayer Closet]

What's up with those movements Josie was making in the TH with Jordyn and Jenny in "A Duggar Says..."? While her sisters commented that Derick was handsome and that Jill loved him, Josie there in the middle was nonverbal and making very weird grunts and gestures. She looked almost autistic.

Yes!! So glad you brought this up! It has been nagging at me for a couple of days. She has seemed a little bit off in several episodes this season. My son is 9 and has high functioning Autism so I have been immersed in the community with special needs children for the past decade. Josie acts very, very much like my son did around age 18 months (a very early diagnosis, thankfully) before we started serious speech and occupational therapy--something the Duggars would never do!! Josie acted like a monkey in DC when they went to the chocolate shop and I can see that she can't sit still or stop moving her head for very long. With the heavy editing they do on this show, you would think they could have ten seconds of her acting appropriately? Hmmmm. I have 3 young children, was a former teacher and foster parent, and I have now provided home daycare for 7 years so I really have some experience....I'm terribly concerned for her because the Duggars seem to be so closed off to the outside world. I mean, really it could be nothing but Michelle's laziness in "training" her but something isn't quite right. If you look at the kids in their first special compared to present day they are like a completely different family. I just hope their kids get any extra help they need even if it's just an hour of speech therapy per week. Highly unlikely though :cry: PLEASE TLC!! Intervene and have Josie evaluated at the very least.

[Sjestings]

I wasn't really sure how to interpret that. Either she was really trying to swat at something only she could see (I didn't see any bugs buzzing around, myself), or she was deliberately trying to take the focus off her sisters talking by being disruptive because she wasn't the center of attention.

I sort of think it's the latter. In a recent episode, Josie sat between her other two sisters, crossed her arms, pulled horrible faces, and didn't say a word while her sisters spoke. Historically, Josie has had a habit of dominating during the talking heads. Jordyn and Jenny don't get a word in edge-wise because Josie talks over them. Since there's a new director on board, I'm guessing he's told Josie to be quiet when her sisters talk so we can hear what they think once in awhile.

I remember hearing an old story about Diana Ross and the Supremes. Ross was always in the center during shows, but there were rumors that she would deliberately raise her arms and pull them back in a certain way while she danced so as to obscure the faces of the other two Supremes while they performed. Josie raising her arms and swatting at the bug reminded me of that story, but I could be reading too much into it. :wink-kitty:

I Think you are right on target Josie is so used to getting all the attention that she is acting out when she feels she is not the center of everyone's focus. If this really is the case it is very sad and she is likely to continue to have issues.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think she is just attention seeking because she isn't the centre of attention, I imagine because of her early birth and health problems as a baby, and the fact that she is the youngest of so many kids and Michelle and Jimbob don't have a baby to focus on like they did when the other ones were her age, she gets spoiled a lot and doesn't get disciplined as much as the others did.

I hope that she is getting some form of intervention if she needs it though-she does seem very young for her age.

[ljohnson2006]

We will never know if Josie has any issues, because J'Chelle and Boob don't believe in getting their children services from the outside world, to help them. What idiots!

[Antimony]

I feel that she is often "unengaged" if that makes sense -- it doesn't seem like she has any focus on what is going on around her at all. Certainly not as much engagement as Jordyn seemed to display at that age. Then again, I don't work with or see children very often but that is how it seems to me. She doesn't seem to verbalize a lot, either. Again, Jordyn always seemed to verbalize, even as a baby when it was nonsense. In a house with that many people, would you expect more verbalization because so many different people talk to them? I think that is a thing?

I also don't like that she seems to be almost a joke. Maybe this is nitpicky but in the Asia special, where the loser of a bet had to eat sushi made by Josie -- it seemed like they were making fun her somehow. Which just did not make sense because the ingredients were provided so it isn't like she could make it taste bad, it would just be poorly rolled.

[anti-antichoice]

I don't know about the whole disengaged thing, but I know a boy her age who has brain damage from being abused as a infant and Joie talks only slightly better than he does. Compare that to my friend's almost 3 year old niece who talks clearly and in sentences, and her speech patterns worry me.

[BeaSnarky]

I feel that she is often "unengaged" if that makes sense -- it doesn't seem like she has any focus on what is going on around her at all. Certainly not as much engagement as Jordyn seemed to display at that age. Then again, I don't work with or see children very often but that is how it seems to me. She doesn't seem to verbalize a lot, either. Again, Jordyn always seemed to verbalize, even as a baby when it was nonsense. In a house with that many people, would you expect more verbalization because so many different people talk to them? I think that is a thing?

I also don't like that she seems to be almost a joke. Maybe this is nitpicky but in the Asia special, where the loser of a bet had to eat sushi made by Josie -- it seemed like they were making fun her somehow. Which just did not make sense because the ingredients were provided so it isn't like she could make it taste bad, it would just be poorly rolled.

I don't know, she could very well have some speech delays due to the fact that she was so premature. Personally, I think she acts like a lot of typical four year olds - especially when she thinks shes the most important thing in the world. My own granddaughter does stuff like that to ensure the attention is on her. I think she's just a future fame-whore, like her parents.

*Edited because think =\= thing

[actuallyjessica]

I feel that she is often "unengaged" if that makes sense -- it doesn't seem like she has any focus on what is going on around her at all. Certainly not as much engagement as Jordyn seemed to display at that age. Then again, I don't work with or see children very often but that is how it seems to me. She doesn't seem to verbalize a lot, either. Again, Jordyn always seemed to verbalize, even as a baby when it was nonsense. In a house with that many people, would you expect more verbalization because so many different people talk to them? I think that is a thing?

I also don't like that she seems to be almost a joke. Maybe this is nitpicky but in the Asia special, where the loser of a bet had to eat sushi made by Josie -- it seemed like they were making fun her somehow. Which just did not make sense because the ingredients were provided so it isn't like she could make it taste bad, it would just be poorly rolled.

pretty sure it was because a toddler made it. not because she might be slow.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

I'm another one who thinks it was an attention-getting maneuver. And it worked. I couldn't take my eyes off of her and I didn't even hear what the other two said.

I wish I could fast forward and see how she turns out-- she could be a nasty, selfish mommy's baby (the kind that never matures) or she could turn out to be an eccentric, odd little duck.

[16strong]

Count me in with the ones that say it was an attention-seeking act. If Josie is developmentally delayed (which she may or not be. All kids progress at different levels, so who can tell just by TH's?), it doesn't change the fact that she is the youngest child and a "miracle baby," so naturally she gets all the attention and is not disciplined like the others have been.

Josie has no incentive to progress mentally. In fact, putting on the baby act likely garners her more attention, as it makes her appear younger, particularly to her mother who fawns all over babies. It also makes her seem more needy, playing on the helpless preemie image she has, which in turn causes those around her to constantly come to her aid. She may be smart, but I don't see her using it if she gets everything she wants by playing dumb.

[Dandruff]

Count me in with the ones that say it was an attention-seeking act. If Josie is developmentally delayed (which she may or not be. All kids progress at different levels, so who can tell just by TH's?), it doesn't change the fact that she is the youngest child and a "miracle baby," so naturally she gets all the attention and is not disciplined like the others have been.

Josie has no incentive to progress mentally. In fact, putting on the baby act likely garners her more attention, as it makes her appear younger, particularly to her mother who fawns all over babies. It also makes her seem more needy, playing on the helpless preemie image she has, which in turn causes those around her to constantly come to her aid. She may be smart, but I don't see her using it if she gets everything she wants by playing dumb.

I also think she's smart and playing for attention, though there could be other issues. When "miracle baby" is said then eyes are on her. She may not know what a miracle is (except that she is one), but she has been around enough babies to observe how they behave.

[Justme]

It's hard to say. There is probably little structured supervision at home. She probably runs wild with the little girls. Most 4 yo's have been in some type of pre-school or structured play/learning type of environment.

[pega127]

I agree she runs wild with her just older sister and probably all her siblings! I think she models typical spoiled bratty behavior. Josie gets attention all the time and wants it all the time. She's the type of little kid who wants attention on her constantly; when it's not, she WILL make it happen!

[HarryPotterFan]

I agree she runs wild with her just older sister and probably all her siblings! I think she models typical spoiled bratty behavior. Josie gets attention all the time and wants it all the time. She's the type of little kid who wants attention on her constantly; when it's not, she WILL make it happen!

So she is basically a little version of her mother.

[Antimony]

pretty sure it was because a toddler made it. not because she might be slow.

Unno, I mean, I get that but I still thought it was weird/discouraging. Compare it to that super-popular video of Misha Collins letting his young child cook all his own food and pick out ingredients and eating it without complaint. I guess I can't expect that kind of stuff from the Duggars but whenever I babysit I very much prefer the attitude of "be creative, give it a shot, it'll be great" rather than "Hah you don't have fine motor control yet or enough experience with food to understand how to put flavors together." I don't necessarily think they think she's "slow" -- I think it just seems too much like mocking your child as oppose to encouraging them. If Jim Bob can eat his BBQ Tuna crap, he can eat sushi his daughter made without being a whiny pisser about it.

[bionicmlle]

I saw it as attention-seeking behavior but I also think she probably has some mild developmental delay related to her prematurity. Additionally, this child would be baby-fied no matter what -- it was clear from the time she was born that she was likely one of the "last" children and after Jubilee's death, she is most definitely "The Baby" (and speaking as the youngest myself, who is STILL referred to as "The Baby," even nearing 40 years of age, can confirm that this birth-order thing is REAL - and I probably milked it in my teen years). Her size and her (seemingly apparent) delays also make it easy to think of her as younger than she is and her role as a baby is incentivized by her mother's craving for having a needy baby in her "care." I suspect Josie will always have some babyish characteristics.

[HarryPotterFan]

Unno, I mean, I get that but I still thought it was weird/discouraging. Compare it to that super-popular video of Misha Collins letting his young child cook all his own food and pick out ingredients and eating it without complaint. I guess I can't expect that kind of stuff from the Duggars but whenever I babysit I very much prefer the attitude of "be creative, give it a shot, it'll be great" rather than "Hah you don't have fine motor control yet or enough experience with food to understand how to put flavors together." I don't necessarily think they think she's "slow" -- I think it just seems too much like mocking your child as oppose to encouraging them. If Jim Bob can eat his BBQ Tuna crap, he can eat sushi his daughter made without being a whiny pisser about it.

I LOVE Misha Collins, especially after seeing those videos and how amazing, encouraging, and patient he is with his son. I haven't seen anything that made me think Josie had autism or anything like that, but she is definitely a product of how she was raised (being praised as the miracle child, daughter of attention whores). Being a micro-preemie could also influence her brain development, but I can't see the Duggars getting her any extra help/tutoring in learning if she needed it. I also don't see them being particularly encouraging for their kids to challenge themselves, or being patient when a child is having trouble learning or with fine motor skills (that job would fall to the J'Slaves, not Mullet and Jim Boob).

But yeah, if Misha can eat pasta with "jam sauce" that includes orange juice, jam, goldfish, chocolate chips, and other ingredients Jim Boob can shut the hell up and eat a sushi roll made by Josie where the ingredients were laid out for her.

[leftcoastmama]

My non professional opinion based only on what I have iewed on TV both Jordyn and Josie concern me for children that will be 5 and 6 this year they seem to be at least a year behind developmentally. With Josie it could be due to her being premature and possible lack of appropriate intervention. With Jordyn I think it's lack of attention.

As for he THs behaior I'm with most that say it's attention seeking behavior.Josie is most likely used to being the center of attention and will do what she has to do to make sure that happens.

Most youngest children get away with more than their older siblings. I'm guilty of this, it's probably even more extreme in Josie's case, her acting like a much younger child is probably rewarded.

[realist51]

I don't understand the constant claims that Josie gets no extra help/services. When FMJ went to the giant yard sale and asked about Josie's therapies, Michelle told her that Josie was getting them. I don't remember exactly which ones she said, but I think OT and speech therapy were included.

[Evilbad]

I don't think she's on the autism spectrum, I think she's just developmentally delayed, probably still mentally younger, and has no concept of anybody else, she is still developmentally at that age where the world revolves around her. She's also a four year old kid, and they aren't all created equal, and some just aren't made to sit still and be quiet, lol.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I don't understand the constant claims that Josie gets no extra help/services. When FMJ went to the giant yard sale and asked about Josie's therapies, Michelle told her that Josie was getting them. I don't remember exactly which ones she said, but I think OT and speech therapy were included.

She at least has speech therapy at an extension of the ACH, which is located about 15-20 minutes from their house.

[Cats B4 Quivers]

Josie reminds me of a little girl who was in my day camp group when I was a counsellor. She was part of a set of triplets who were preemies and had spent the first several months in NICU. She was nearly 4 years old and had similar level of speech and the attention span of a gnat. Sweet kid. She'd suddenly start spinning around like a tiny windmill and I understood maybe 2 out of 5 words she said. I asked her mom if there was anything extra I could do to help her put but her mom said the ill spinner was about a year behind in development but was improving as she spent more time with kids her chronological age. Her two brothers were at different stages with one being a smidge slower in speaking but the third triplet was at age level speaking but a less physically coordinated. Fast forward a decade when I bumped into them and the nearly 14 year old triplets were like all other kids their age. They had extra help when they started school but caught up to their peers by grades 1 or 2.

Tl;dr, Josie is probably a year behind in her development and since her parents seem to be utterly done with parenting, she really needs some extra guidance. And company with other kids who she doesn't share any genetic material with as well.

[HermioneSparrow]

I'm a teacher and psychopedagogist, she has to be diagnosed on learning/development issues or any other condition but I don't really see any signs of autism, that was just an attention seeking charade.