Formerly Baptist Family of 12 Becomes Amish, Then Jewish

[MamaJunebug]

I can't imagine being one of the teenagers and being raised to believe Christ is your savior, you must believe in him to go to heaven, etc. etc. and then being told "jk kids! We're Jewish now so forget all of that stuff about Jesus. Not true."

Also I'm surprised they'd force this on their children. I would think if you made such a big leap like that, that you'd at least allow them time to come around or form their own opinion on the matter. I'm surprised to see all the kids already wearing the prayer shawls and kippahs.

I'm seeing a younger version of Pa & Ma Maxwell in these two parents. JMHO.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I feel sorry for the kids, with all of these changes.

[Ralar]

I can't imagine being one of the teenagers and being raised to believe Christ is your savior, you must believe in him to go to heaven, etc. etc. and then being told "jk kids! We're Jewish now so forget all of that stuff about Jesus. Not true."

Also I'm surprised they'd force this on their children. I would think if you made such a big leap like that, that you'd at least allow them time to come around or form their own opinion on the matter. I'm surprised to see all the kids already wearing the prayer shawls and kippahs.

An Orthodox Jewish conversion does not happen overnight. In fact, by tradition, a potential convert is supposed to be turned away by the rabbi - three times! If the person then persists past that third rejection - well, ok - you're adequately motivated and the rabbi will usually talk to them. http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/248165/jewish/Why-Do-Rabbis-Discourage-Conversions.htm

Conversion to Judaism involves a program of study, usually lasting about a year. A person who wants to convert must study Hebrew, synagogue liturgy and practice, Jewish history, philosophy, Kashrut, Shabbat, general Jewish practice, the Jewish calendar and lifecycle rituals, Jewish literature, and more. In addition, most rabbis require that he/she begin to keep kosher and observe Shabbat, as well as coming to synagogue and doing other mitzvot. In the case of an Orthodox conversion, the person would have to live according to halacha (i.e., live an Orthodox lifestyle) prior to the conversion.

The actual process of conversion, after going through the course of study and preparation, involves meeting with a Beit Din (Rabbinical court) of three rabbis, and if the Beit Din feels that the candidate is ready for conversion, he or she is immersed in a Mikvah (Ritual bath). A male conversion candidate must undergo circumcision before going to the Mikvah.

The Beit Din would not go ahead with the conversion if there is any indication that the person has not demonstrated a complete commitment to becoming Jewish.

[anjulibai]

An Orthodox Jewish conversion does not happen overnight. In fact, by tradition, a potential convert is supposed to be turned away by the rabbi - three times! If the person then persists past that third rejection - well, ok - you're adequately motivated and the rabbi will usually talk to them. http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/248165/jewish/Why-Do-Rabbis-Discourage-Conversions.htm

Conversion to Judaism involves a program of study, usually lasting about a year. A person who wants to convert must study Hebrew, synagogue liturgy and practice, Jewish history, philosophy, Kashrut, Shabbat, general Jewish practice, the Jewish calendar and lifecycle rituals, Jewish literature, and more. In addition, most rabbis require that he/she begin to keep kosher and observe Shabbat, as well as coming to synagogue and doing other mitzvot. In the case of an Orthodox conversion, the person would have to live according to halacha (i.e., live an Orthodox lifestyle) prior to the conversion.

The actual process of conversion, after going through the course of study and preparation, involves meeting with a Beit Din (Rabbinical court) of three rabbis, and if the Beit Din feels that the candidate is ready for conversion, he or she is immersed in a Mikvah (Ritual bath). A male conversion candidate must undergo circumcision before going to the Mikvah.

The Beit Din would not go ahead with the conversion if there is any indication that the person has not demonstrated a complete commitment to becoming Jewish.

How does that work with really young children, though?

[Ralar]

How does that work with really young children, though?

Very young children are usually converted along with the parents. The older children would study and go through the full process. Many Conservative and Reform rabbis will have a child attend Hebrew School alongside members of the congregation, and then do the formal conversion shortly before the child's bar/bat mitzvah. I do not know how Orthodox do conversions of children preschool - age 12. Over 12 for girls, 13 for boys, they would go through a similar process as the parents, but probably with fewer reading assignments.

[Black Aliss]

Oddly enough, I came across this earlier today

http://www.gofundme.com/weddingshower

OFFS!

Dear Miss Manners: If next year the couple decides to convert to Asatru, or Islam, do they have to return the shower gifts?

[jenwales]

I guess the positive of this is that the kids (at least the older ones) realize that you can explore different faiths and change your mind. This is better than the people who are exposed to only one extreme version of a religion and nothing else.

[2xx1xy1JD]

How does that work with really young children, though?

If kids under 12 or 13 are converted, they get the theoretical choice of accepting or renouncing the conversion at their Bar/Bat Mitzvah.

I'm not sure how well this would go over with parents in reality, but a rabbi would at least affirm that they have no obligation to stick with it if they were clearly rejecting it.

I did attend a joint Bar/Bat Mitzvah for a brother and sister who were adopted and converted as young children, where they specifically mentioned the adoption and their acceptance of Judaism in their speeches during the ceremony.

[bumblebee]

I admit I do side eye people that immerse and convert into one extreme religion after another. Exploring different paths of spirituality is one thing, but deeply immersing yourselves into one religion that is very based on culture after another makes me think you're looking for something you aren't going to find in a specific religion.

I know one person that converted to Orthodox Judaism for marriage and another that became a "messianic Jew" who I think basically wanted Jesus plus Rabbinical tradition. It's almost more surprisingly this family didn't try and go down that route. Good luck to them but I wonder where they'll be in 3 years time?

[Marianne]

I admit I do side eye people that immerse and convert into one extreme religion after another. Exploring different paths of spirituality is one thing, but deeply immersing yourselves into one religion that is very based on culture after another makes me think you're looking for something you aren't going to find in a specific religion.

I know one person that converted to Orthodox Judaism for marriage and another that became a "messianic Jew" who I think basically wanted Jesus plus Rabbinical tradition. It's almost more surprisingly this family didn't try and go down that route. Good luck to them but I wonder where they'll be in 3 years time?

In a cult.

[mirele]

I know one person that converted to Orthodox Judaism for marriage and another that became a "messianic Jew" who I think basically wanted Jesus plus Rabbinical tradition. It's almost more surprisingly this family didn't try and go down that route. Good luck to them but I wonder where they'll be in 3 years time?

Now, you're making me wonder if they're going to be "Messianic Jews" but aren't telling the people over at Chabad doing the conversion?

[Mary C Doates]

I predict in a few years they'll be living in a converted bus, "unschooling" their children and having Sparkling Adventures.

[Soulhuntress]

Some faith hopping is normal but they are going from extreme and cloistered to extreme and less cloistered. I am curious about the rest of their story.

[Coco]

I don't have a problem with people who go through multiple conversions, I think they just tend to be people who are very spiritual and who are looking for the right fit.

But I think it must be difficult for the children to have such extreme change thrust on them. Especially when it seems like they are choosing religious groups that would make it difficult for the children to keep the same friends. And many of those children look old enough that they would have their own religious beliefs. I think it would be very odd to be 9 or 12 or 14 and be told that you need to forget everything you believe and take on a new faith.

It is very difficult, speaking from my experience of becoming a conservative mennonite SAHD at age 16 from jeans, sports, having a part-time church job, and wanting to be a Pentecostal Assemblies of God missionary. The McJunkin kids' journey doesn't seem that drastic. They might be able to keep their Amish friends as pen-pals. The Amish write a lot of letters. :D

I guess the positive of this is that the kids (at least the older ones) realize that you can explore different faiths and change your mind. This is better than the people who are exposed to only one extreme version of a religion and nothing else.

That's true and I hope that is their experience. Unfortunately they could be gullible like I was, and suffer for years trying to weigh out all the different convictions.

[Coco]

I feel sorry for the kids, with all of these changes.

If they're very strong-willed they might be able to use their experiences to get ahead. One of my friends in the conservative Mennonite church went on to community college, did very well, and used his background story as leverage to get into Georgetown University. His family hadn't always been super religious, and his dad was already practicing law (his dad was not overly involved in the Mennonite beliefs), so that helped him follow in his dad's footsteps. But the experience of ultra-religion and being exposed to a Mennonite school for part of his education was interesting to the admissions people. So there's that going for them. :D

[Mama Mia]

If they're very strong-willed they might be able to use their experiences to get ahead. One of my friends in the conservative Mennonite church went on to community college, did very well, and used his background story as leverage to get into Georgetown University. His family hadn't always been super religious, and his dad was already practicing law (his dad was not overly involved in the Mennonite beliefs), so that helped him follow in his dad's footsteps. But the experience of ultra-religion and being exposed to a Mennonite school for part of his education was interesting to the admissions people. So there's that going for them. :D

Yeah, but I think for the individual children involved it would have to be very difficult for at least some of them, to develop beliefs in one faith and then to be basically forced to convert to entirely different beliefs. They can't all be easily swayed from one belief system to another. I'm sure some of them might easily follow whatever their parents believe, but for others it must be rough.

[Coco]

Yeah, but I think for the individual children involved it would have to be very difficult for at least some of them, to develop beliefs in one faith and then to be basically forced to convert to entirely different beliefs. They can't all be easily swayed from one belief system to another. I'm sure some of them might easily follow whatever their parents believe, but for others it must be rough.

Very rough. It could lead to depression if they were so inclined. I hope that doesn't happen. It's really a heavy thing to be a parent and try to figure out the right road to choose. The kids, even if they're close to adult age, can't just pack up and walk away easily, especially if they've been raised as Amish children. They're bound to their parents as authorities. I'd be surprised if some of them aren't a little shell-shocked. I wonder what made those parents do what they did. I wonder if any of the older kids had formed close friendships that would have led to marriage eventually. The kids are going to have to do a lot of soul-searching i think. It's kind of cruel for the parents to drag them through all of it, if their nearly-adult children aren't 100% on board. Of course the kids could always choose to go back to the Amish, if they really wanted to do that.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Kochava (Crazy Jewish Convert blog) had a great review of a book about a somewhat similar Appalacian family of 12.

crazyjewishconvert.blogspot.ca/2014/06/book-review-appalachian-family-of-12.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+YoureNotCrazy+%28You%27re+Not+Crazy%29

I'd suggest reading the post - ALL of it, including the long version of the review.

First, some translations:

Frum = observant Orthodox Jew

FFB = frum from birth

Baalei teshuva or BT = formerly secular Jews who become religious

ger = convert

yeshivish = ultra-Orthodox Jews who are not Hasidic

Artscroll = a popular religious Jewish publishing house known for making religious books available and accessible to an English-speaking audience, making it very popular with the newly religious/convert crowd, but which also tends to promote a somewhat yeshivish POV.

Anyway, she talks about how this family sort of brags about there previous religious background and lack of contamination by the secular world, and how that totally rubbed her - as a convert - the wrong way.

[yetanothermeg]

It is very difficult, speaking from my experience of becoming a conservative mennonite SAHD at age 16 from jeans, sports, having a part-time church job, and wanting to be a Pentecostal Assemblies of God missionary. The McJunkin kids' journey doesn't seem that drastic. They might be able to keep their Amish friends as pen-pals. The Amish write a lot of letters. :D

[DGayle]

Wow, that seems unfair. I would prefer someone who converted twice over someone who is unwilling to even consider changing their beliefs. I would understand being wary of the serial converters who jump from religion to religion and back again, but twice doesn't seem completely unreasonable. I think people are entitled to more than one religious shift in their lives if need be.

The adults who are in charge sound like they're forcing this on the kids. I highly doubt 13 people all at one time all felt compelled to switch from one to another, and then another to a third, all at the same time. I can get behind a couple trying on different religions to rind the right fit, but not dragging along 11 kids and not giving them any choice in the matter.

[Coco]

I am really interested in your story and how your family joined a Mennonite church. What conference? Mennonites are a particular interest of mine. And Mennonite worship/lifestyle, is sooo different from a modern evangelical/Pentecostal life, it must have been quite a culture shock.

It was a Charity church; Berea Christian Fellowship in Columbiana OH mostly, and Grace Mennonite in Bastrop TX (which is Beachy). Reuben Kauffman and Clayton Weaver are such sweet, godly leaders. Our family visited quite a few different congregations and went to Mennonite revival meetings. So, my family wasn't technically any particular Mennonite conference, although the Charity church teachings are almost 100% identical to basic menno beliefs. I usually call what we were Mennonite just for convenience sake. (And i went to Youth Bible School 4x, ah fun fun lol. Gotta love that rompin' stompin' Bro. Denny, Lord rest his soul) We had many close Beachy friends and Whistler friends, and a few ex-Amish friends. It was really interesting. We shopped at Amish mom and pop stores and I even got to drive a horse and buggy once staying with some still-Amish friends. I'm not slamming that lifestyle at all, for those who willingly choose it. But as a kid that had already kind of established my life path it was a pretty big shocker when my parents took the plunge. Especially because i swallowed the whole thing hook line and sinker and tried to ignore the "worldly" past. It's never a good idea to try to subvert one's personality. The most difficult thing is trying to become meek and quiet and submissive when you've been a loud bossy kid most of your life. Glad to be back to my normal bitchy self! :lol:

ETA: it's also extremely difficult to adjust to women as friends who have been kept under a rock through no fault of their own, and have very little intellectual curiosity, just because it isn't encouraged. Also, not being able to vote... and the men are the only ones who can discuss politics, without being judged. Calling Tell Me every day to keep up with the news without TV or radio (and being perceived as a bold woman for caring) does not a happy political junkie make. I really sucked as a Mennonite. :lol:

[PennySycamore]

I figure in about 5 years, he'll be going something more strict.

FLDS? Or maybe an even more strict sect of Judaism?

[Micah]

Speaking as someone whose parents switched religion multiple times (Seventh Day Adventist, Presbyterian, Baptist and Christadelphian), I can tell you, it's really hard on kids. My parents switches weren't that drastically different in doctrine and belief, but it was still scary and different.

I think it's why I became an athiest and why I have a barely hidden hatred for all things organised religion. I feel sorry for these kids :(

[It'sFunToRun]

Lot of fake smiles in that picture.

The oldest girl seems genuinely happy. I'm guessing that as the oldest she feels most in control of her life and wants a very religious lifestyle, but is feeling the freedom one most feel when leaving the Amish. A lot of the other kids look nervous. Unfortunately they probably endured a lot of physical punishment in their lives and have been trained not to question.

I hope they don't join Lev Tehor.

[MamaJunebug]

OK, I just thought "cosplay!" and "Niednagels, top THAT!" when I saw that photo for the first time. Bad MJB, I'm sure they are very sincere. Srsly.

I came here not to comment on the photo, but to advise that

Kveller.com currently features an article by a Jew by choice who was converted along with her his parents when she was 4 or 5 years old.

What she has to say to parents considering a whole-family conversion might have been of interest to this couple. Or maybe not.

Here we go:

kveller.com/blog/parenting/so-youre-thinking-of-converting-your-child/

For me, the journey from one religion to another to another almost equates with "rules that change" as a way to confuse children, but that's just for me, and supposing that the family stay Jewish, any feelings of confusion will only be among the older kids, and those well may dissipate with consistency going forward.

MJB over'n'out.

Edited to remove "irony" that actually was only moderately helpful criticism.

Edited a second time when I went back to kveller and realized that not only is the author male, but a lawyer whose work I'm vaguely familiar with from reading the St. Louis Jewish Light. Small, small world!!!