Seven Weeks Of Suffering Whooping Cough

[Mudball]

Yellowfin, not every child (or adult) CAN be vaccinated for medical reasons. Also, vaccinations are not 100%. Some people have compromised immune systems from cancer treatments or other reasons. These are the people put at risk by people choosing to not vaccinate based on pseudo science.

My daughter was vaccinated on a delayed schedule per her doctors recommendation because of medical reasons.

Those websites you posted were not credible.

Amish children most absolutely do have autism, but the rate of diagnosis, reporting and services are much lower to non-existent. I live in PA Amish country and have known, lived near and worked with many.

[Yellowfin]

Yellowfin, not every child (or adult) CAN be vaccinated for medical reasons. Also, vaccinations are not 100%. Some people have compromised immune systems from cancer treatments or other reasons. These are the people put at risk by people choosing to not vaccinate based on pseudo science.

My daughter was vaccinated on a delayed schedule per her doctors recommendation because of medical reasons.

Those websites you posted were not credible.

Amish children most absolutely do have autism, but the rate of diagnosis, reporting and services are much lower to non-existent. I live in PA Amish country and have known, lived near and worked with many.

What is considered a "credible" link? MSNBC, FOX, CNN? We know government agencies have hidden and distorted the facts for many years. The polio vaccine being a prime example. Could you please provide a "credible" link to prove your Amish autism statement?

[mockingbird]

People on this site are smart, it's what drew me to it. I love that you guys dig deep for the info & clues, discuss and collectively come up with the most likely truth. Hope those skills don't just apply to reality TV stars.

Vaccinated children are protected, so they wouldn't need to be concerned with exposure, isn't that the point?

The country's leading autism experts are piecing together data to suggest that some children may be predisposed to autism, a disease that could very likely be set off by environmental factors. Researchers have linked pesticides, plastic chemicals in vinyl flooring, mercury in fish (it gets in the water and lead, among other things. http://www.rodalenews.com/research-feed/autism-rate

Thimerosal is a mercury-containing organic compound and is still used in most vaccines, particularly flu vaccines according to the FDA.

No, there is no link between thimerosal and autism. The original study linking MMR and autism was debunked and the doctor who conducted it is no longer allowed to practice. Actually, most vaccines don't even contain thimerosal anymore. There is one version of DTaP that does, and some of the flu ones do, but for both of those there are also thimerosal-free alternatives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thimerosal_controversy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy

http://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvaccin ... m096228#t1

"Vaccinated children are protected, so they wouldn't need to be concerned with exposure, isn't that the point?"

Partly. Ultimately, it is a statistics game because not everyone will respond to a vaccine the same way, which is part of why it is so important for the community at large to vaccinate. There is a small chance that you might not build up enough of an immune response to the vaccine to fight off the infection later. So actually, even if you have been vaccinated, but a significant portion of you community has NOT, you could still be at risk for that disease if it were to show up in your community, if the case is you didn't build up a good immune response. Less of a chance of getting the disease than someone who wasn't vaccinated (because it's more likely that you did respond adequately to the vaccine), but there's still a chance. The more people who have been vaccinated, the less likely the bug is even going to show up in the first place to reach people who can't be vaccinated or who didn't build up enough of an immune response, because there will be more people who can fight it off ("herd immunity").

Actually the article primarily deals with the possible role of vaccine adjuvants in triggering the development of autoimmune diseases, although the authors did mention the theory that infections could provoke autoimmune responses as well. E.g. the article discusses Gulf War Syndrome patients presenting antibodies to squalene, which was one of the adjuvants in the vaccines veterans were given at the time. This is relevant to the vaccine discussion because a lot of anti-vaccine parents believe that it is the adjuvants that are more damaging than the infectious antigen. Hence, the campaign against thimerosal and aluminum as vaccine adjuvants.

Regardless of what is causing the rise of autoimmune diseases, we as a society have an obligation to identify which individuals would possibly react negatively to vaccinations. There are long term financial consequences associated with chronic disease, and these are crushing our healthcare system. In addition, casually dismissing the possibility of a child developing lupus or arthritis due to vaccines "because they probably would get it anyway" is one of the reasons anti-vaccination parents don't trust the medical establishment when it comes to vaccines. I don't think that the issue is that parents don't care about their kids getting measles, or that they don't care about other people getting sick because their kid is a disease vector. The issue is that parents see vaccines as having negative consequences on their kid's long term quality of life. And for that, they are willing to ignore success stories like smallpox and polio.

Well, I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but I still stand by what I said. If you were to cite a vaccine (i.e. the actual germ) as an immune trigger to an autoimmune disease, AFAIK at this point there is no proof that that causes any more risk than being exposed to a disease - so there is an equal chance you might trigger an autoimmune disease whether you are vaccinated or not. In that case it is not really anything specific about the vaccine that triggers the disease.

"Actually the article primarily deals with the possible role of vaccine adjuvants in triggering the development of autoimmune diseases..."

I assumed your quote was a summary sentence from the abstract and it didn't mention anything about adjuvants, but rather made a direct comparison to "infectious agents" so that is why I didn't think it was about adjuvants. Some context would have helped. It's an interesting theory and I was able to find more articles on it. It sounds like something worth looking into and improving the adjuvants used. However, any serious vaccine is still rare, that I don't think we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater here. You can also have a serious reaction to many common medicines - they are just as rare as (or maybe more common) vaccine reactions, yet we tend to decide the benefits outweigh the small risks. Heck, you are even taking a chance the first time you feed your child solid food, that they might be allergic! Sure, it would be great to be able to ID people who would have bad reactions to vaccines and meds and hopefully that is something we will see in the future so that these people can avoid them, but the average person is also playing extremely good odds that they won't be one of those people (unless, say, there's family history of bad reactions to vaccines).

"we as a society have an obligation to identify which individuals would possibly react negatively to vaccinations"

I can agree with this and I also think it is important to look more at how to prevent autoimmune diseases, since it does seem like environment is a factor (often there are often "problem" genes involved, but not everyone who has those genes ends up with the autoimmune disease).

ETA: Credible = scientific study, statistically valid, scientifically valid methods, etc...

I think I found the original report about Amish people not having autism. (http://www.putchildrenfirst.org/media/e.4.pdf) This was done by a reporter interviewing parents and other members of the community. That is not a scientifically valid "study" of how many people in the community have autism. The main problem here is that he does not have an impartial method of judging whether people have autism or not. It is all based on memory and one mom's judgement. Also, there's no scientific/statistical analysis regarding whether vaccines were the actual cause of these kids' autism. It was more of a lifestyle piece than anything that proves a scientific point.

This was I assume a poster presentation in which the authors used pre-existing diagnostic tools for autism on Amish kids and the rate ended up being 1/271 kids.

https://imfar.confex.com/imfar/2010/web ... r7336.html

[dawbs]

People on this site are smart, it's what drew me to it. I love that you guys dig deep for the info & clues, discuss and collectively come up with the most likely truth. Hope those skills don't just apply to reality TV stars.

Vaccinated children are protected, so they wouldn't need to be concerned with exposure, isn't that the point?

The country's leading autism experts are piecing together data to suggest that some children may be predisposed to autism, a disease that could very likely be set off by environmental factors. Researchers have linked pesticides, plastic chemicals in vinyl flooring, mercury in fish (it gets in the water and lead, among other things. http://www.rodalenews.com/research-feed/autism-rate

Thimerosal is a mercury-containing organic compound and is still used in most vaccines, particularly flu vaccines according to the FDA.

only addressing the bolded, NO that's not how it works.

1-vaccines are not flawless. if they protect 97% of kids, that is awesome...but that means that there are odds (3/100, for the sake of this argument) that my child will NOT be immune in spite of the vaccine.

2-some of societies most vulnerable people can't be vacced. My mom was in the midst of chemo and radiation when my daughter was born--she was the only adult in my daughter's life who didn't get an update on her whooping cough shot--she couldn't because of her cancer treatments. So someone who brings their unvacced kid around me/my kid/my family is risking that we become carriers (either by getting the disease or just by bad luck and carrying it) and give that disease to my mom. Times that by 3 gazillion for a medically fragile kid who tries to do things like go to SCHOOL where the little carrier monkey children expose him to 10 quadrillion things every day.

and a credible link would be one that appears in a peer reviewed journal. Science has been blinded by pride and isn't perfect, but it's a helluva lot more reliable than something that's root was in a guy who had a patent that would mean big money if people changed the way they vaccinate (and who tried to make several other ideas 'stick' as to why people should change their MMR vaccine and buy his instead: http://briandeer.com/wakefield/vaccine-patent.htm

)

[mockingbird]

Here's some studies on the polio vaccine and the SV40 monkey virus proving they are NOT connected to any increased risk of cancer:

"In persons born before 1963, the presence of SV40-specific antibodies, although rare, could reflect exposure to SV40-contaminated vaccines. Nevertheless, NHL [non-Hodgkin's lymphoma] risk was unrelated to serologic evidence of SV40 exposure or infection."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15367569

"A possible role for SV40, a macaque polyomavirus, in non-Hodgkin lymphoma (NHL) in humans was raised recently by the reported detection of SV40 DNA in tumor tissue. Animals with SV40-induced tumors frequently produce high-level antibodies against T antigen, the SV40 oncoprotein. In this study, we assessed whether SV40 T antibody measured in humans supported a relationship between SV40 and NHL. Subjects were sampled from a U.S. population-based case-control study of NHL, according to presence of antibodies against capsids of SV40 and BK, a related human polyomavirus... We found no association between the presence of T antibody and NHL, arguing against SV40 as a cause of NHL. Infrequent and low-level T antibody responses among humans could represent cross-reactivity to BK virus T antigen."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15734981

"After 69.5 million person-years of follow-up, individuals exposed to SV40-contaminated poliovirus vaccine as infants (i.e., born 1955-1961) or children (i.e., born 1946-1952) had lower overall cancer risk (age-adjusted relative risk [RR] = 0.86, 95% confidence interval [CI] = 0.81 to 0.91 and RR = 0.79, 95% CI = 0.75 to 0.84, respectively; P<.001 for both) than unexposed individuals (i.e., born 1964-1970, after the vaccine was cleared of SV40 contamination). Specifically, SV40 exposure was not associated with increased incidence of mesothelioma, ependymoma, choroid plexus tumor, or non-Hodgkin's lymphoma... Exposure to SV40-contaminated poliovirus vaccine in Denmark was not associated with increased cancer incidence."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12671021

"The authors conclude that an increased cancer risk in CPP [cohort study name] children whose mothers received pre-1963 poliovirus vaccine was unlikely to have been due to SV40 infection transmitted from mothers to their children."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15286015

[Mudball]

No, I can't point to a peer reviewed study proving Amish people do also have autism. (Well, not all... Lol. You know what I mean!) When I stated that I was speaking from experience. If such a study exists I don't know of it and I'm too lazy to seek it out.

Is there a credible, peer reviewed, journal published study saying they don't?

[Knight of Ni]

In response to the question of why Autism rates have increased in the past few years:

We were talking about Autism one day at fencing practice. Our coach stated "When I was growing up kids didn't have Autism they were just considered weird." This relates to those with milder cases of Autism of course but it does make you think about the criteria used for diagnosis of Autism. It has simply become more recognizable.

The same would be true about cancer. 100s of years ago, many deaths that were unexplained could probably be attributed to cancer.

I am also one of the ones that is uncompromising about vaccines. Unless you are immunocompromised, allergic to the vaccine ingredients, or otherwise medically unable to receive vaccines there is absolutely no reason not to vaccinate.

The discussion about how dangerous vaccines are reminds me to bring up another important issue. Please be aware of the risks of dihydrogen monoxide. It's an extremely dangerous chemical. The CDC estimates that 10 people PER DAY die in the United States from exposure to this chemical.

[Zoom]

I had pertussis as a child (they didn't vaccinate against it in Sweden in the 80s) i "whooped" for 6 months and I still have damaged lungs because it. My child would have to have some VERY bad reactions to vaccines for me not to vaccinate against pertussis. These people are idiots.

[Marianne]

People on this site are smart, it's what drew me to it. I love that you guys dig deep for the info & clues, discuss and collectively come up with the most likely truth. Hope those skills don't just apply to reality TV stars.

Vaccinated children are protected, so they wouldn't need to be concerned with exposure, isn't that the point?

The country's leading autism experts are piecing together data to suggest that some children may be predisposed to autism, a disease that could very likely be set off by environmental factors. Researchers have linked pesticides, plastic chemicals in vinyl flooring, mercury in fish (it gets in the water and lead, among other things. http://www.rodalenews.com/research-feed/autism-rate

Thimerosal is a mercury-containing organic compound and is still used in most vaccines, particularly flu vaccines according to the FDA.

Yellowfin, if one day you are going to a country with a high rate of diphteria, would you vaccines your children, or taking the risk to see them die of this painfull and mortal disease ?

What studie have you done to read and understand true scientific studies ?

Do you know the history of the diagnosis of autism ? Because you seem to know nothing about it.

Do you realize that when you speak, you seem like a selfish bourgeois ? (sorry, but all this people who don't vaccines sounds like a "I come from a rich country from the Occident...")

[dairyfreelife]

No, I can't point to a peer reviewed study proving Amish people do also have autism. (Well, not all... Lol. You know what I mean!) When I stated that I was speaking from experience. If such a study exists I don't know of it and I'm too lazy to seek it out.

Is there a credible, peer reviewed, journal published study saying they don't?

There are studies and the Amish do vaccinate. They are not against medical help or science and the majority are vaccinated. It's a myth they are not. I blame Age of Autism's Dan Olmsted and Mercola for continuing this lie.

http://autism.about.com/b/2008/04/23/do ... -lower.htm

http://combatingautismfromwithin.blogsp ... inate.html

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Neurology/Seizures/2954

https://imfar.confex.com/imfar/2010/web ... r7336.html

http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/searc ... utism-rise

Those are just a few websites talking about autism in Amish and vaccination among Amish and also information about autism's rise and possible reasons.

It seems that while not certain, the majority of science does believe a large reason for the increase is more diagnostic criteria and better diagnostics in general for autism.

[dairyfreelife]

Yellowfin, if one day you are going to a country with a high rate of diphteria, would you vaccines your children, or taking the risk to see them die of this painfull and mortal disease ?

What studie have you done to read and understand true scientific studies ?

Do you know the history of the diagnosis of autism ? Because you seem to know nothing about it.

Do you realize that when you speak, you seem like a selfish bourgeois ? (sorry, but all this people who don't vaccines sounds like a "I come from a rich country from the Occident...")

A lot of people don't know much about diphtheria in the US thanks to it being non-existent for the most part for a couple decades. They do not know what happens with the disease or how it kills...it causes the throat to swell making swallowing very difficult and sometimes the swelling would close the throat making the person unable to breathe...in other words, the patient would literally die from suffocation.

[Aggie2145]

Vaccinated children are protected, so they wouldn't need to be concerned with exposure, isn't that the point?

The more correct statement is most vaccinated children are protected from the diseases they are vaccinated against. However, the CDC estimates that 5-15% of the population are vaccine non-responders. So there is an entire segment of the population who were fully vaccinated under the standard schedule that never developed the antibodies. Unless a person contracts the disease or has blood work to check for antibodies, they will never know that they are a non responder. Herd immunity protects this group just as it protects those who cannot get vaccines - immunocompromised, very young children, person with specific allergies. We should always be concerned with exposure.

[GoFlamingo]

only addressing the bolded, NO that's not how it works.

1-vaccines are not flawless. if they protect 97% of kids, that is awesome...but that means that there are odds (3/100, for the sake of this argument) that my child will NOT be immune in spite of the vaccine.

2-some of societies most vulnerable people can't be vacced. My mom was in the midst of chemo and radiation when my daughter was born--she was the only adult in my daughter's life who didn't get an update on her whooping cough shot--she couldn't because of her cancer treatments. So someone who brings their unvacced kid around me/my kid/my family is risking that we become carriers (either by getting the disease or just by bad luck and carrying it) and give that disease to my mom. Times that by 3 gazillion for a medically fragile kid who tries to do things like go to SCHOOL where the little carrier monkey children expose him to 10 quadrillion things every day.

and a credible link would be one that appears in a peer reviewed journal. Science has been blinded by pride and isn't perfect, but it's a helluva lot more reliable than something that's root was in a guy who had a patent that would mean big money if people changed the way they vaccinate (and who tried to make several other ideas 'stick' as to why people should change their MMR vaccine and buy his instead: http://briandeer.com/wakefield/vaccine-patent.htm

)

Vaccines rely on herd immunity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity) to protect people in dawb's points 1 & 2. When a person isn't vaccinated, they aren't just putting themselves (or their children) at risk, they are putting the entire population at risk when the threshold of vaccinated people is not met to create herd immunity.

Vaccines aren't just about the private health of an individual or family, they are for Public Health.

[jaynie]

.

It seems that while not certain, the majority of science does believe a large reason for the increase is more diagnostic criteria and better diagnostics in general for autism.

In my abnormal psych of childhood class we talked about this. A big part of the increase is broader and more relaxed criteria, as you say (its much more likely that you'll meet 1 of 20 criteria than 3 of 3). The better diagnostics you mention also have the effect that people who were previously labeled mentally retarded (not PC, but that was the term in those days) are now diagnosed as autistic. In terms of an actual increase, the only theory that seemed to have any weight is that advanced parental age plays a factor - more kids are being born to older parents, which makes them more susceptible to all kinds of problems, and there does seem to be a correlation to ASD. There may be other things as yet missed, but the vaccine thing has been thoroughly tested and debunked, and regardless, we certainly aren't talking about an inexplicable 30% jump.

[Sydney Fox]

This topic is really hitting home for me right now. My area is in the midst of a whooping cough outbreak, and despite my children being fully vaccinated, the younger two seem to have contracted it. We just got back from the ER, where the kids were nasal swabbed and prescribed antibiotics. The antibiotics will prevent them from passing it on to anybody else, but they do nothing to cure the disease. According to the doctor, my kids could be coughing for the next 100 days. Vaccines are definitely not 100% and we need more people to vaccinate to prevent outbreaks like this.

Also, my kids are autism spectrum. I discussed the increase in autism rates with the psychologist who diagnosed my younger daughter and she confirmed that more cases of milder autism were being diagnosed nowadays than in the past. I am one of those weird kids who I'm pretty sure would have been diagnosed if they had been looking so closely for autism. So, I don't believe there is a real increase in autism rates, only an increase in the number of higher functioning autistics being diagnosed.

[Coconut Flan]

So sorry to hear that your kids are sick with whooping cough. I hope it's very mild cases for them.

[RosyDaisy]

I wonder if perhaps the rise in autism rates is because in the past autistic children were just labeled as mentally handicapped, and new research has better defined mental disorders. I hope that made sense and didn't offend anyone.

[Sydney Fox]

So sorry to hear that your kids are sick with whooping cough. I hope it's very mild cases for them.

Thank you. So far the 7 year old seems to be doing alright, but the 3 year old just started coughing last night and he sounds like a rooster crowing when he coughs. The health nurse I spoke to said they have had a mix of unvaccinated and vaccinated kids in this outbreak, but the vaccinated kids seem to be getting a milder form of it, so I'm hopeful.

[Sydney Fox]

I wonder if perhaps the rise in autism rates is because in the past autistic children were just labeled as mentally handicapped, and new research has better defined mental disorders. I hope that made sense and didn't offend anyone.

I think most children who are being labelled autism spectrum now are not mentally handicapped at all, but socially impaired. My children are highly gifted intellectually, but do not do well socially. I think the socially awkward misfit is where we're seeing the biggest increase in autism rates, not the mentally handicapped who were always diagnosed.

[GiGi_41]

The discussion about how dangerous vaccines are reminds me to bring up another important issue. Please be aware of the risks of dihydrogen monoxide. It's an extremely dangerous chemical. The CDC estimates that 10 people PER DAY die in the United States from exposure to this chemical.

That stuff is terrible. I had to evacuate one time because of that dangerous chemical. Today I burned myself with it at work.

Definite need to restrict its use especially with children.

[Trynn]

That stuff is terrible. I had to evacuate one time because of that dangerous chemical. Today I burned myself with it at work.

Definite need to restrict its use especially with children.

Oh yes, can't have them ingesting that can we? I mean, bad enough when they inhale it... Imagine what would happen of they actually SWALLOWED it! Clutches pearls

[Marianne]

Thank you. So far the 7 year old seems to be doing alright, but the 3 year old just started coughing last night and he sounds like a rooster crowing when he coughs. The health nurse I spoke to said they have had a mix of unvaccinated and vaccinated kids in this outbreak, but the vaccinated kids seem to be getting a milder form of it, so I'm hopeful.

I'm so sorry for you and your children, whooping cough is really painfull :( I send good vibe to you and to the little !

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Sarah Pope was in a segment on Jon Stewart last night. Pretty funny

alternet.org/video/hilarious-video-daily-shows-samantha-bee-tackles-epidemic-anti-vaxxer-idiocy

[Flyinthesoup]

This topic is really hitting home for me right now. My area is in the midst of a whooping cough outbreak, and despite my children being fully vaccinated, the younger two seem to have contracted it. We just got back from the ER, where the kids were nasal swabbed and prescribed antibiotics. The antibiotics will prevent them from passing it on to anybody else, but they do nothing to cure the disease. According to the doctor, my kids could be coughing for the next 100 days. Vaccines are definitely not 100% and we need more people to vaccinate to prevent outbreaks like this.

I would like to address this, simply because I have been there, done that.... 3 times over. I have resisted jumping in on the immunization threads as they cause grief for me. In brief, my eldest child at 4 years, reacted to his immunization that altered the way we do things in our family. At that time we had three children, so our younger children did not get vaccinated, because of the risks. The older three had immunizations up to date. The younger children were not born until after the first bout of whooping cough went through our home. At the time we first contracted whooping cough, my eldest was 6 years old.

The nasal swab your children had, may or may not show positive for whooping cough. If your children are showing signs of the disease, with no positive nasal swab, treat them as positive for whooping cough, likely they have it. Immunized children exhibit signs differently, and the nasal swab is the only test that may or may not detect the disease. The cough is different sounding for those who have been immunized vs. a person who has not been immunized...often sounding like short gasping spasms for air at the end of a coughing spell, vs. the common 'whoop' sound. There are secondary infections to whooping cough, you may want to make yourself aware of them, just to be on the look out. Some of the ones I can remember are: ear infections, eye infections and throat infections...and of course, children with asthma or like issues, have more serious problems.

My younger children who contracted whooping cough, a few years later, never had secondary infections. My older three all had secondary infections sending them each to the hospital for various surgeries. I was very fortunate, during all of this, to have direct contact with the communicable diseases department and became very educated on the disease, at that time. I realize vaccinations are always changing and so is information, so my information is now about 10 years old, but last I check, much was still the same, even though the vaccine has changed.

Important information that you don't usually find out, until you are in the thick of it. With the last vaccines, not the current one, 80% of ALL people who come in contact with it, will get it. You just don't know you did....which is finally how we realized, after three times through the house, what the 'sign' was in our home. We had a 'cold' going through our home, but it was different. Just a slight sore throat, only a few days of 'cold like symptoms' and we were done with it. No cold had we ever had, or have had to this day, only last a few days. The colds ALWAYS last longer. When discussing this with the communicable diseases nurses, they agreed with me, we can NEVER get rid of whooping cough! It's too complicated to diagnosis it and when you have been immunized, it alters the symptoms. In either case of immunized or not, it takes time to diagnose it, precious time is lost.

I'm sorry you have to take the antibiotics, I know how horrible those were on our family. I hope they put your entire family on the antibiotics, not just the infected children!!! If they failed to do that, you may want to contact your doctor and ask why. If your children have whooping cough, you have been exposed to it and everyone else in your home. The third time through our home, we opted to not take the drugs and just isolated ourselves. I should mention, the second time through our home, I had a 4 month old baby at the time, it was my 2 year old that came down with it. I was grateful to know the signs and get the antibiotic immediately.

I think we all need to be careful on throwing stones with regards to vaccinations. To be educated is very important. But, keep in mind where that source of information is coming from. Not all doctors, not all nurses know the ins and outs of immunizations. It's wise to research and ask a multitude of doctors and nurses, especially those who have dealt with the diseases and immunizations. We have had well meaning nurses give an agreed upon tetanus shot to one of our children, but it was to be a single shot, nothing except for tetanus. It was after the emergency doctor administered the shot, left the room, my husband looked at the box and the instructions and found out they gave the mixed dose, putting our child at risk!

We all want what's best for our families. We all are taking risks, one way or another. We live in a place where we have freedom to make these choices and for that I am grateful!

Sorry for the long post....so much more I could have shared.

[Sydney Fox]

I would like to address this, simply because I have been there, done that.... 3 times over. I have resisted jumping in on the immunization threads as they cause grief for me. In brief, my eldest child at 4 years, reacted to his immunization that altered the way we do things in our family. At that time we had three children, so our younger children did not get vaccinated, because of the risks. The older three had immunizations up to date. The younger children were not born until after the first bout of whooping cough went through our home. At the time we first contracted whooping cough, my eldest was 6 years old.

The nasal swab your children had, may or may not show positive for whooping cough. If your children are showing signs of the disease, with no positive nasal swab, treat them as positive for whooping cough, likely they have it. Immunized children exhibit signs differently, and the nasal swab is the only test that may or may not detect the disease. The cough is different sounding for those who have been immunized vs. a person who has not been immunized...often sounding like short gasping spasms for air at the end of a coughing spell, vs. the common 'whoop' sound. There are secondary infections to whooping cough, you may want to make yourself aware of them, just to be on the look out. Some of the ones I can remember are: ear infections, eye infections and throat infections...and of course, children with asthma or like issues, have more serious problems.

My younger children who contracted whooping cough, a few years later, never had secondary infections. My older three all had secondary infections sending them each to the hospital for various surgeries. I was very fortunate, during all of this, to have direct contact with the communicable diseases department and became very educated on the disease, at that time. I realize vaccinations are always changing and so is information, so my information is now about 10 years old, but last I check, much was still the same, even though the vaccine has changed.

Important information that you don't usually find out, until you are in the thick of it. With the last vaccines, not the current one, 80% of ALL people who come in contact with it, will get it. You just don't know you did....which is finally how we realized, after three times through the house, what the 'sign' was in our home. We had a 'cold' going through our home, but it was different. Just a slight sore throat, only a few days of 'cold like symptoms' and we were done with it. No cold had we ever had, or have had to this day, only last a few days. The colds ALWAYS last longer. When discussing this with the communicable diseases nurses, they agreed with me, we can NEVER get rid of whooping cough! It's too complicated to diagnosis it and when you have been immunized, it alters the symptoms. In either case of immunized or not, it takes time to diagnose it, precious time is lost.

I'm sorry you have to take the antibiotics, I know how horrible those were on our family. I hope they put your entire family on the antibiotics, not just the infected children!!! If they failed to do that, you may want to contact your doctor and ask why. If your children have whooping cough, you have been exposed to it and everyone else in your home. The third time through our home, we opted to not take the drugs and just isolated ourselves. I should mention, the second time through our home, I had a 4 month old baby at the time, it was my 2 year old that came down with it. I was grateful to know the signs and get the antibiotic immediately.

I think we all need to be careful on throwing stones with regards to vaccinations. To be educated is very important. But, keep in mind where that source of information is coming from. Not all doctors, not all nurses know the ins and outs of immunizations. It's wise to research and ask a multitude of doctors and nurses, especially those who have dealt with the diseases and immunizations. We have had well meaning nurses give an agreed upon tetanus shot to one of our children, but it was to be a single shot, nothing except for tetanus. It was after the emergency doctor administered the shot, left the room, my husband looked at the box and the instructions and found out they gave the mixed dose, putting our child at risk!

We all want what's best for our families. We all are taking risks, one way or another. We live in a place where we have freedom to make these choices and for that I am grateful!

Sorry for the long post....so much more I could have shared.

Thanks for taking the time to write this long post. We won't know for about a week if they do in fact have whooping cough, but we are proceeding as if they do. Only the two kids that were swabbed have been given antibiotics. It is the Health dept.'s policy right now (we're in Canada) to only treat suspected cases, not caregivers or other contacts. We're trying to be responsible citizens though. My husband was supposed to be on a plane this morning, but he cancelled his flight. He wanted to be cautious and not infect anyone in case he has contracted it as well. We are isolating ourselves at least until we hear the diagnosis of the nasal swipes. We homeschool, so at least the kids aren't missing school.

I'll be sure to keep an eye out for secondary illnesses. I'm just thankful the kids are 7 and almost 4 and not babies. Thank you for letting me know your personal experience with whooping cough, you've given me some very valuable information. I understand your not wading into the vaccination debate, since I don't usually comment on homeschool topics either, even though I'm a longtime homeschooler. Sometimes there is nothing personally to be gained.

Thanks again.