The Smuggars: Josh, Anna and the M'kids

[MandyLaLa]

I know everyone can make their own decision on extended rear facing, but I'm absolutely shocked that they did it the. Day he turned 1, it makes me question if he was already forward facing before his birthday.

[karen77]

I hope he is actually 20 lbs too!! Sometimes they aren't at 1.

[Rescinded and Mended]

If Smugs and A'Uterus are gonna keep popping out blessings every 13-18 months, then they're going to need a much bigger vehicle just to accomodate all the upcoming blessings with their carseats.

Think they'll be looking into buying their very own stinkbus soon?

Edited for clarity.

[LittleOleMe]

I'm going to bet he was turned early. His seat is in a captains chair and they aren't for rear facing seats. They wouldn't turn his seat and then randomly decide to change the car seat arrangement. They're a headache to put in and out constantly. (As someone who changes cars way too often, I know this better than most people who are sane enough to keep their seats in one car)

I certainly hope those aren't used car seats, but since we know they have bought used ones in the past, I'm guessing they are :x

ETA: That's not to say you can't use a captain's seat for a rear facing seat, but it's not the wisest decision. Since they don't make the smartest decisions, maybe he was in that spot rear facing. Who knows.

[for_the_Kitties]

I'm just glad to see them IN carseats. Despite the buckle/front facing issues, at least they own car seats and use them. I can't recall how many families I have seen that let kids just "hop in the back seat" or are using car seats that were in a car accident (a huge no-no).

[LittleOleMe]

I'm just glad to see them IN carseats. Despite the buckle/front facing issues, at least they own car seats and use them. I can't recall how many families I have seen that let kids just "hop in the back seat" or are using car seats that were in a car accident (a huge no-no).

And that's why used car seats are a huge no-no. People lie and some people don't realize that a fender bender is enough to ruin the integrity of the car seat. Others simply don't care.

But yeah, I'm glad they're at least using car seats and the seats appear to be installed correctly. I can't believe people do not take their children's safety seriously? The ones who shout from the roof tops about how evil and wrong abortion is, seem to also be the ones who disregard carseat safety and safety in general. But I guess since they're fighting for the unborn (or pre-born as they put it) God is smiling on them and will protect their improperly restrained children.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Only the infant carriers say "22lbs and 1yr". All convertible carseats say you can rear face to whatever their max is. Mine are 45lbs and 44in. Anyone who looks into carseats at all knows that children should rear face for as long as possible. I bet you any money Josh researched his stupid TV more than the seats designed to keep his children safe should someone crash into him.

It says you CAN rearface to the max, but the manual still says you can turn them around a 1 year and 20 lbs. And I know they should rear face as long as possible, but that doesnt mean that EVERYONE does. Hell, 1 in 5 car seats are INSTALLED wrong. And that's the most detailed part of the manual. Not to mention, every county (and in some places, every town/city) has a service either through the police station or fire station to have your installation checked or done for you.

[Coco]

I'm just glad to see them IN carseats. Despite the buckle/front facing issues, at least they own car seats and use them. I can't recall how many families I have seen that let kids just "hop in the back seat" or are using car seats that were in a car accident (a huge no-no).

This. One of my mom's fundie friends is a SCARY driver, or was the last time i rode with her. (she leans into the van steering wheel and speeds. Careen is the only way to describe it). They have car seats, but it's mainly just in case they get stopped. And her kids actually get up and move around while she's driving. So unsafe. I hope they've improved that by now.

[TheEnglishButterfly]

And that's why used car seats are a huge no-no. People lie and some people don't realize that a fender bender is enough to ruin the integrity of the car seat. Others simply don't care.

But yeah, I'm glad they're at least using car seats and the seats appear to be installed correctly. I can't believe people do not take their children's safety seriously? The ones who shout from the roof tops about how evil and wrong abortion is, seem to also be the ones who disregard carseat safety and safety in general. But I guess since they're fighting for the unborn (or pre-born as they put it) God is smiling on them and will protect their improperly restrained children.

I agree. I have a 10 year old that is still in a high back booster and it really is mind-numbing how many people seemingly don't give a shit about car seat safety. The straps and clips make me shudder on there... and I agree... lets yell about how bad abortion is, bring more unwanted children into this world that may be abused, but here, let me post these ADORABLE pics of my kids in seats that would make a car seat tech shudder! Yup we aren't hypocrites at all! ;)

We were in a car accident not too long ago, not enough for the airbags to deploy but enough to cause injury and the seat belts to lock up. I insisted on getting a new booster for my child. I was even weary picking her up in her old seat that day because of the fact it was in a wreck. So many people dont replace their seats after wrecks!

[LittleOleMe]

I agree. I have a 10 year old that is still in a high back booster and it really is mind-numbing how many people seemingly don't give a shit about car seat safety. The straps and clips make me shudder on there... and I agree... lets yell about how bad abortion is, bring more unwanted children into this world that may be abused, but here, let me post these ADORABLE pics of my kids in seats that would make a car seat tech shudder! Yup we aren't hypocrites at all! ;)

We were in a car accident not too long ago, not enough for the airbags to deploy but enough to cause injury and the seat belts to lock up. I insisted on getting a new booster for my child. I was even weary picking her up in her old seat that day because of the fact it was in a wreck. So many people dont replace their seats after wrecks!

Some people are just lazy. Or willfully ignorant. My parents are perfect examples of that. When my dad's car was totaled (due to someone else running a red light) they insisted that the booster seat in there was just fine. The car was totaled and my dad had broken bones, but yeah, that booster seat is just fine. :roll:

I was upset when I had to turn my son two months prior to his fourth birthday. He was only 40lbs (his seat goes to 45) but he was 44in and that meant it was time to turn around. My daughter was rear facing until about seven weeks before she turned five. I doubt they'll ever get booster seats bc their seats convert. They can forward face to 80lbs/57in and then use it in booster mode up to 120lbs. I don't even weigh 120lbs. That's insane. And yet I know someone with a child younger than my daughter and another child my son's age (so 4 and 5) who are both in seat belts. Half the time the 2yo isn't even in a carseat. She seriously lets these kids be in a car in nothing but seat belts. If she got into an accident, they would all go flying. It boggles my mind. It really does.

Of course, there are people who really just do not know anything about car seats. A friend of mine's husband was saying how they saved their 6yos infant carrier for their neice who isn't even pregnant yet. They didn't know car seats expired. Seriously. Mennonites will routinely buy old car seats at garage sales (car seats that expired long before the children who will be in them were ever born) and use them. I've actually seen people driving in the street - and in the city! - with infants being held by a passenger. I saw one guy driving and then park. I couldn't figure out why the other adult was in the back seat. Then I saw a little kid perk up. He had been on the floor in the front seat the whole time this guy was driving. He couldn't have been more than 8 or 9. And then the other adult got out with a fucking baby who wasn't more than 6 months. They took nothing with them. The car didn't have a car seat or a diaper bag or anything. You never would have guessed a child had been in that car.

I could rant forever about car seats. Some people honestly do not know and they just need to be educated about it. Others are willfully ignorant while the rest are just fucking morons.

[TheEnglishButterfly]

Some people are just lazy. Or willfully ignorant. My parents are perfect examples of that. When my dad's car was totaled (due to someone else running a red light) they insisted that the booster seat in there was just fine. The car was totaled and my dad had broken bones, but yeah, that booster seat is just fine. :roll:

I was upset when I had to turn my son two months prior to his fourth birthday. He was only 40lbs (his seat goes to 45) but he was 44in and that meant it was time to turn around. My daughter was rear facing until about seven weeks before she turned five. I doubt they'll ever get booster seats bc their seats convert. They can forward face to 80lbs/57in and then use it in booster mode up to 120lbs. I don't even weigh 120lbs. That's insane. And yet I know someone with a child younger than my daughter and another child my son's age (so 4 and 5) who are both in seat belts. Half the time the 2yo isn't even in a carseat. She seriously lets these kids be in a car in nothing but seat belts. If she got into an accident, they would all go flying. It boggles my mind. It really does.

Of course, there are people who really just do not know anything about car seats. A friend of mine's husband was saying how they saved their 6yos infant carrier for their neice who isn't even pregnant yet. They didn't know car seats expired. Seriously. Mennonites will routinely buy old car seats at garage sales (car seats that expired long before the children who will be in them were ever born) and use them. I've actually seen people driving in the street - and in the city! - with infants being held by a passenger. I saw one guy driving and then park. I couldn't figure out why the other adult was in the back seat. Then I saw a little kid perk up. He had been on the floor in the front seat the whole time this guy was driving. He couldn't have been more than 8 or 9. And then the other adult got out with a fucking baby who wasn't more than 6 months. They took nothing with them. The car didn't have a car seat or a diaper bag or anything. You never would have guessed a child had been in that car.

I could rant forever about car seats. Some people honestly do not know and they just need to be educated about it. Others are willfully ignorant while the rest are just fucking morons.

See in even the time from my daughter being born there has been even more of a push about car seat safety. Lily didn't reach 20 lbs until she was at least a year and a half. I didn't extended rear face because it was just emerging back then. I absolutely insisted on waiting until she was at least 20 lbs and 1 year, and I was still weary because she was such a tiny little thing. I would have rear-faced her longer had I had more information, but in this day and age I find it almost hard to be ignorant about car seat safety. Between the media (Ive even seen billboards on the side of the road), TV, internet, and doctors.... its hard to be ignorant. I see that MOST people that do things wrong do it because its easier. Ya know, "I turned my child before a year because she would cry!" or "My child doesnt need a booster, she's tall!" or even worse "My kid is really strong and can handle a crash, they dont need a car seat!" It's just stupid ignorance. Some things ARE just lack of knowledge... my friend was in a bad car accident with her baby and she didnt know she had to replace the car seat. I told her and she replaced it no problem. She was happy for me to tell her. But I am guessing that the Duggar's aren't THAT stupid ;) Meaning, they know god damn well to put the chest clip on. Maybe they arent as educated about where the chest clip needs to be on the chest, but I find it hard to believe they dont know that a baby needs to be rear facing until (now I am probably quoting the wrong statistics now, but even if they are wrong I know it still applies to them) a year and at least 20 lbs. I think it's 2 years and 40 lbs now, am I right? Regardless, I know the youngest isn't anywhere near an acceptable standard.

That's cool about your kiddos convertible seats... when we had to replace the booster I almost wished we could replace it and "go back"in a way for some of those convertible seats. They were so comfortable looking and my daughter would have probably loved them.... but since she is so old I knew that while they are very safe and comfortable, money wise it wouldn't be worth it. I did not want a booster with only the bottom so I found one that fit with a high back, because I want her in a high back until she out grows her booster. But if I ever have another kid I will probably get one of those comfy super nifty convertible seats. Lily got crap from her cousins about being in a booster still and I'm glad I taught her well, she says "It's not babyish, it's safe and it's comfortable. I get 2 drink holders and you don't have any. You have to hold your drinks. I can sleep comfortably in the car. I love my booster!" Huzzah little child... huzzah ;)

[Coco]

I see that MOST people that do things wrong do it because its easier. Ya know, "I turned my child before a year because she would cry!" or "My child doesnt need a booster, she's tall!" or even worse "My kid is really strong and can handle a crash, they dont need a car seat!"

Ha! We go off-roading in jeeps, in groups of 5 or more jeeps.. sometimes the vehicles will be off-balance climbing over obstacles and the passenger will reach out to push off a tree or something without thinking. Yeah, not that strong, dude. :roll: delusional people.

[LittleOleMe]

See in even the time from my daughter being born there has been even more of a push about car seat safety. Lily didn't reach 20 lbs until she was at least a year and a half. I didn't extended rear face because it was just emerging back then. I absolutely insisted on waiting until she was at least 20 lbs and 1 year, and I was still weary because she was such a tiny little thing. I would have rear-faced her longer had I had more information, but in this day and age I find it almost hard to be ignorant about car seat safety. Between the media (Ive even seen billboards on the side of the road), TV, internet, and doctors.... its hard to be ignorant. I see that MOST people that do things wrong do it because its easier. Ya know, "I turned my child before a year because she would cry!" or "My child doesnt need a booster, she's tall!" or even worse "My kid is really strong and can handle a crash, they dont need a car seat!" It's just stupid ignorance. Some things ARE just lack of knowledge... my friend was in a bad car accident with her baby and she didnt know she had to replace the car seat. I told her and she replaced it no problem. She was happy for me to tell her. But I am guessing that the Duggar's aren't THAT stupid ;) Meaning, they know god damn well to put the chest clip on. Maybe they arent as educated about where the chest clip needs to be on the chest, but I find it hard to believe they dont know that a baby needs to be rear facing until (now I am probably quoting the wrong statistics now, but even if they are wrong I know it still applies to them) a year and at least 20 lbs. I think it's 2 years and 40 lbs now, am I right? Regardless, I know the youngest isn't anywhere near an acceptable standard.

That's cool about your kiddos convertible seats... when we had to replace the booster I almost wished we could replace it and "go back"in a way for some of those convertible seats. They were so comfortable looking and my daughter would have probably loved them.... but since she is so old I knew that while they are very safe and comfortable, money wise it wouldn't be worth it. I did not want a booster with only the bottom so I found one that fit with a high back, because I want her in a high back until she out grows her booster. But if I ever have another kid I will probably get one of those comfy super nifty convertible seats. Lily got crap from her cousins about being in a booster still and I'm glad I taught her well, she says "It's not babyish, it's safe and it's comfortable. I get 2 drink holders and you don't have any. You have to hold your drinks. I can sleep comfortably in the car. I love my booster!" Huzzah little child... huzzah ;)

I'm going to make a statement a lot of people will not like. Doctors are idiots. The boys I mentioned earlier who sit in just belts. The 4 yr is smaller than my son. Significantly less in weight and shorter in height. In fact he's commonly mistaken to be twins with the 2yr. He's not big. Yet his doctor apparently told his parents that he's okay to be in a regular booster seat. Not a high back booster, but a regular booster. And I can tell you for a fact, that he's almost never in it. These same doctors who say it's okay to turn a 20lb on their 1st birthday (and only convertibles say you can forward face at 20lbs. The infant carriers still say 21/22lbs) also encourage parents to formula feed bc "its just as good" along with a slew of other bullshit. Of course not all doctors are like this, and I'm not even trying to they are, but a lot are.

Ever since I had to turn my son, I won't drive my mother's car anymore. If my parents want to pick them up for something, it must be my dad's car bc my mother's car has some thing at the top of the seat in the middle and it forces me to put their seats behind the passenger and then behind the driver. No one gets why that's a problem. No one understands that not only are there safety rules for whether a child is rear facing or forward facing, but there are also safety rules for the position of the seat in the car. That's something absolutely no one talks about. A good friend of mine is due soon with her second and I made the comment that I was happy her daughter was in the middle seat with her booster. (We had just been talking about car seats and we have that kind of relationship where that isn't perceived as rude) She sighed about how she would have to move her for when the new baby comes. Now my friend is a very intelligent woman. She has a PhD and takes very good care of her children. But she didn't even know that her daughter should stay in that seat.

I definitely agree with the lazy statement. I can't believe the excuses I've heard. Much like the ones you described.

And I was about to post this, I heard from the kids I previously mentioned. Their father was pulled over bc the 4yr wasn't in a car seat. Not a booster, a full five point harness car seat. Now he's in one. Woot!!

[TheEnglishButterfly]

I'm going to make a statement a lot of people will not like. Doctors are idiots. The boys I mentioned earlier who sit in just belts. The 4 yr is smaller than my son. Significantly less in weight and shorter in height. In fact he's commonly mistaken to be twins with the 2yr. He's not big. Yet his doctor apparently told his parents that he's okay to be in a regular booster seat. Not a high back booster, but a regular booster. And I can tell you for a fact, that he's almost never in it. These same doctors who say it's okay to turn a 20lb on their 1st birthday (and only convertibles say you can forward face at 20lbs. The infant carriers still say 21/22lbs) also encourage parents to formula feed bc "its just as good" along with a slew of other bullshit. Of course not all doctors are like this, and I'm not even trying to they are, but a lot are.

Ever since I had to turn my son, I won't drive my mother's car anymore. If my parents want to pick them up for something, it must be my dad's car bc my mother's car has some thing at the top of the seat in the middle and it forces me to put their seats behind the passenger and then behind the driver. No one gets why that's a problem. No one understands that not only are there safety rules for whether a child is rear facing or forward facing, but there are also safety rules for the position of the seat in the car. That's something absolutely no one talks about. A good friend of mine is due soon with her second and I made the comment that I was happy her daughter was in the middle seat with her booster. (We had just been talking about car seats and we have that kind of relationship where that isn't perceived as rude) She sighed about how she would have to move her for when the new baby comes. Now my friend is a very intelligent woman. She has a PhD and takes very good care of her children. But she didn't even know that her daughter should stay in that seat.

I definitely agree with the lazy statement. I can't believe the excuses I've heard. Much like the ones you described.

And I was about to post this, I heard from the kids I previously mentioned. Their father was pulled over bc the 4yr wasn't in a car seat. Not a booster, a full five point harness car seat. Now he's in one. Woot!!

Ya know I can agree, there are some doctors out there that are either stuck in the stone ages, uninformed themselves.... or just don't care. I guess I'm just lucky to have amazing doctors that have their hearts behind me and my child. I think it was at Lily's 9th birthday her doc asked if we were still in a booster and I said "Of course, I realize she can probably do without but we will be going to the maximum of her seat." Then at our last appointment (soon after she turned 10) I again said she was still in a booster and will remain in one until she's probably 12. She really is a tall child and I may change my mind in the next year and a half but as for now, I am going for the recommended age that may be to the max but ya know, it's a-ok with my daughter and I. Her doctors really do value my input as a parent and I value theirs. But again, I have great doctors. I am very happy with them and it may be a rare occurance to have doctors like mine. I also have a sister that is a nurse.

But question.... I know the middle is the safest location for a child seat. I could put a infant seat in my car but a booster would not fit. I had a truck when Lily was a baby and there was no middle seat, she had to go into the back driver side because statistically it is (or at least was) the passenger side that usually would get hit in an accident. But for your friend that is having another child and would have to add in another seat... isn't the middle the safest for the baby? And the older child would be the one that would have to move? I just thought that statistically, the youngest should be in the middle rear for the safest seat possible. And then the other child behind the passenger. So what would be the best configuration... if I had my daughter in the middle (lets pretend she was smaller/younger) and I had a new baby... wouldn't I want to move my child to keep the baby in the middle? Or have standards changed for that? Unless I understood you wrong, I perceived it as the older child should stay in the middle and then the younger baby be placed somewhere else. Let me know if I understood you wrong!

[Meghann]

May Adventures

http://davidlovespriscilla.com/2014/06/ ... dventures/

[Coco]

Love Anna's diaper bag! 8-)

[Ralar]

Have we seen Mike in shorts before?

[HarryPotterFan]

Some people are just lazy. Or willfully ignorant. My parents are perfect examples of that. When my dad's car was totaled (due to someone else running a red light) they insisted that the booster seat in there was just fine. The car was totaled and my dad had broken bones, but yeah, that booster seat is just fine. :roll:

I was upset when I had to turn my son two months prior to his fourth birthday. He was only 40lbs (his seat goes to 45) but he was 44in and that meant it was time to turn around. My daughter was rear facing until about seven weeks before she turned five. I doubt they'll ever get booster seats bc their seats convert. They can forward face to 80lbs/57in and then use it in booster mode up to 120lbs. I don't even weigh 120lbs. That's insane. And yet I know someone with a child younger than my daughter and another child my son's age (so 4 and 5) who are both in seat belts. Half the time the 2yo isn't even in a carseat. She seriously lets these kids be in a car in nothing but seat belts. If she got into an accident, they would all go flying. It boggles my mind. It really does.

Of course, there are people who really just do not know anything about car seats. A friend of mine's husband was saying how they saved their 6yos infant carrier for their neice who isn't even pregnant yet. They didn't know car seats expired. Seriously. Mennonites will routinely buy old car seats at garage sales (car seats that expired long before the children who will be in them were ever born) and use them. I've actually seen people driving in the street - and in the city! - with infants being held by a passenger. I saw one guy driving and then park. I couldn't figure out why the other adult was in the back seat. Then I saw a little kid perk up. He had been on the floor in the front seat the whole time this guy was driving. He couldn't have been more than 8 or 9. And then the other adult got out with a fucking baby who wasn't more than 6 months. They took nothing with them. The car didn't have a car seat or a diaper bag or anything. You never would have guessed a child had been in that car.

I could rant forever about car seats. Some people honestly do not know and they just need to be educated about it. Others are willfully ignorant while the rest are just fucking morons.

In response to the bolded:

I practically need a booster seat when I drive...so age isn't always the best indicator of when to stop using car seats. I remember my driving instructor pulling out a cushion for me to sit on to help me see over the steering wheel :lol:

Pardon my ignorance (I am no where near to having children, so I haven't done research) but car seats expire? How does that work?

[for_the_Kitties]

Have we seen Mike in shorts before?

yes, quite often. the controversial carseat pic shows him in shorts and Mac in some leggings-that-look-more-like-pants. Naughty Anna!

The male children of Boob and j'chelle never wore shorts as children. (Except that one time they wore them as a "costume" in that movie)

[Rebelwife]

In response to the bolded:

I practically need a booster seat when I drive...so age isn't always the best indicator of when to stop using car seats. I remember my driving instructor pulling out a cushion for me to sit on to help me see over the steering wheel :lol:

Pardon my ignorance (I am no where near to having children, so I haven't done research) but car seats expire? How does that work?

If I remember correctly (my youngest is about to turn 13) it is because they are made of plastic and eventually the plastic will degrade, especially after years of sitting in a hot car. Car accidents can put stress on the plastic so that they can later fail, even if that stress isn't evident to the naked eye. Someone please feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong!

[for_the_Kitties]

If I remember correctly (my youngest is about to turn 13) it is because they are made of plastic and eventually the plastic will degrade, especially after years of sitting in a hot car. Car accidents can put stress on the plastic so that they can later fail, even if that stress isn't evident to the naked eye. Someone please feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong!

^Yes. And safety standards change year to year regarding cars and child safety seats. Something that was up to date ten years ago, is most likely obsolete today. It helps alleviate some legal issues car seat companies face in case an old and not in good condition car seat is in an accident, breaks, and the child is injured.

It is NOT because car seat companies want you to keep buying them year after year. Some companies are now coming out with car seats that will last through the life of a child (infant to preteen), and only need to be replaced in case of a car accident or if it breaks.

Mechanical degradation, Unseen stress fractures, legal reasons, and money all play a part.

[HarryPotterFan]

^^^ All of that makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

[halcionne]

And that's why used car seats are a huge no-no. People lie and some people don't realize that a fender bender is enough to ruin the integrity of the car seat. Others simply don't care.

But yeah, I'm glad they're at least using car seats and the seats appear to be installed correctly. I can't believe people do not take their children's safety seriously? The ones who shout from the roof tops about how evil and wrong abortion is, seem to also be the ones who disregard carseat safety and safety in general. But I guess since they're fighting for the unborn (or pre-born as they put it) God is smiling on them and will protect their improperly restrained children.

Wow, I'm learning so much in this thread. The bold above knocked my socks off.

I'll admit it, I was one of those ignorant parents who turned my daughter's car seat around on her first birthday (twenty years ago). I was always in a hurry for my kid to reach the next milestone. :doh: :embarrassed:

So here is a dumb question from someone whose kids have long been out of safety seats, and I could never quite figure out: where do the kid's legs & feet go, once they're over a year old, in a rear-facing seat?

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

If I remember correctly (my youngest is about to turn 13) it is because they are made of plastic and eventually the plastic will degrade, especially after years of sitting in a hot car. Car accidents can put stress on the plastic so that they can later fail, even if that stress isn't evident to the naked eye. Someone please feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong!

That's one reason, but not a very strong reason. The real reason is that after a certain number of years (7 for most companies, 10 for Diono), the companies stop supporting the car seats. Technologies and features change so rapidly that it becomes difficult for them to be able to replace pieces or honor warrantees (car seat warrantees allow you to claim an accident and get a replacement of the same type of car seat). Plus, the won't have to recall a seat that is expired, since you shouldn't be using it in the first place, which ultimately saves them money.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Wow, I'm learning so much in this thread. The bold above knocked my socks off.

I'll admit it, I was one of those ignorant parents who turned my daughter's car seat around on her first birthday (twenty years ago). I was always in a hurry for my kid to reach the next milestone. :doh: :embarrassed:

So here is a dumb question from someone whose kids have long been out of safety seats, and I could never quite figure out: where do the kid's legs & feet go, once they're over a year old, in a rear-facing seat?

On the back of the seat, usually folded. It's actually a safer position for their legs than dangling in front of the seat. Very few injuries come from rear facing, even if a child is 4 or older (some countries require rear facing till at least 4); but severe injuries happen when forward facing, especially to the neck, back, chest, hips, and legs. Many forward facing kids suffer fractures in their legs from the force the crash exerts on them and the fact that they are dangling/unsupported.