11 y/o Quits Chemo because Jesus and Indigenous Treatments

[2xx1xy1JD]

In Ontario, Canada (where this story is taking place), the legal definition of a "child in need of protection" include cases where:

(e) the child requires medical treatment to cure, prevent or alleviate physical harm or suffering and the child’s parent or the person having charge of the child does not provide, or refuses or is unavailable or unable to consent to, the treatment;

full law here: http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statut ... e.htm#BK54

Neither the doctors nor the Children's Aid Society can override the parents' wishes until the courts grant them that right (which can be done at an emergency hearing). Before making an order, the courts generally want evidence that the situation is in fact urgent, and that the parents are being unreasonable.

[Mudball]

I'm a smidge confused. This lass is talking about Jesus telling her she will be ok then her family wants to do First Nation medicine. Can you combine those beliefs easily? I know nothing about the First Nation being discussed.

I'm a member of the nation being discussed. It's not rare at all. There are many churches in Ontario and upstate NY that incorporate a lot of aspects of Mohawk and Iroquois culture and beliefs.

[treemom]

This is a few years old but worth watching. It was a 7 week course of chemo.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DqXjNfS_nJ4

The standard course for ALL is 2.5 years. It is near universal as almost all places use one of the Total Protocols. I think after 7 weeks is about when the induction + consolidation may end. Or possible just induction. Here is a good explanation of the standard ALL therapy.

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/leukemiain ... n-with-all

[tropaka]

Well, unfortunately this girl has relapsed and is now critically ill. She, along with another native girl, were being treated by some quack in West Palm Beach Florida - using Vitamin C injections and cold laser therapy (whatever that is) along with a raw food diet:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/aboriginal/docto ... -1.2832760

A Florida health resort licensed as a “massage establishment†is treating a young Ontario First Nations girl with leukemia using cold laser therapy, Vitamin C injections and a strict raw food diet, among other therapies.

The mother of the 11-year-old girl, who cannot be identified because of a publication ban, says the resort’s director, Brian Clement, who goes by the title “Dr.,†told her leukemia is “not difficult to treat.â€

Another First Nations girl, Makayla Sault, was also treated at Hippocrates Health Institute in West Palm Beach and is now critically ill after a relapse of her leukemia.

The resort has declined CBC’s request for an interview with Clement, who is described as a “naturopathic doctor†on the resort’s website.

According to the Florida State Health Authority, Hippocrates Health Institute is a licensed massage establishment and Brian Clement is not a licensed doctor or naturopath.

But the Florida state health authority has said Clement is not a licensed doctor or naturopath, and inquiries regarding the institutions where he is described in online biographies as having earned degrees have raised questions about their credibility.

The 11-year-old girl was receiving chemotherapy at McMaster Children’s Hospital in Hamilton. Doctors gave her a 90 to 95 per cent of survival with chemotherapy.

But her mother says she wanted to pursue a combination of traditional indigenous medicine and alternative therapies because she believes chemotherapy is “poison.â€

The names of the mother and daughter are protected by a publication ban imposed by an Ontario Superior Court judge who will rule on Friday if the girl is a “child in need of protection.â€

He could rule that the Brant Children’s Aid Society should take her into custody, potentially forcing her back into chemotherapy.

The family of Makayla Sault, who is the same age, has the same type of leukemia and lives in a nearby First Nation made a similar decision to leave chemotherapy earlier this year.

Both families travelled to West Palm Beach and paid more than $18,000 each for Clement’s “Life Transformation Program†at the Hippocrates Health Institute (HHI).

Makayla relapsed after returning from HHI. She was hospitalized last week and is said to be critically ill.

The other girl has also returned home, but her mother says HHI is continuing to provide care by analyzing blood test results sent by mail.

Concerns about director’s claims and credentials

CBC News is looking into the claims and credentials of Clement.

In a video obtained by CBC News, Clement says his institute teaches people to “heal themselves†from cancer by eating raw, organic vegetables and having a positive attitude.

“We've had more people reverse cancer than any institute in the history of health care,†he says.

“So when McGill fails or Toronto hospital fails, they come to us. Stage four (cancer), and they reverse it.â€

The mother of the girl whose identity is protected says she knew as soon as her daughter was diagnosed that she wanted to seek treatment at Hippocrates, a clinic she was familiar with through a relative, but didn’t have the money to go.

After securing financial support from family, she called Clement from the hospital waiting room on the 10th day of her daughter’s chemotherapy.

'Confident' tone

“He had the tone of voice where he was so confident,†she says.

“By him saying, ‘Oh yes no problem we can help her,’ that's the day I stopped the chemo.â€

A list of “Comprehensive Cancer Wellness†treatments on HHI’s website includes: Aqua Chi Ionic Footbath, BioEnergy Field Intervention and The Power of The Mind in Getting Well Programâ„¢.â€

An online biography for Clement reads: “A Naturopathic Doctor and a licensed Nutritionist, Dr. Clement is a graduate of the University of Science, Arts, and Technology where he earned his Ph.D. and N.M.D.â€

A different biography, posted on a site run by Clement, says his post-graduate degree came from Lady Malina Memorial Medical College.

Hippocrates Health Institute did not respond to questions from CBC News seeking clarification about where and when Clement attended university.

‘Diploma mills’

In the May video, Clement told an audience that he went back to school to earn his PhD 15 years ago, despite being at odds with conventional medical teaching.

“When I went back and got that education I had to actually lie on half the tests because I would have failed … if I applied what I knew from all the work I did decades done before that,†he says.

Further inquiries about the University of Science, Arts and Technology (USAT) and the Lady Melina Memorial College raise questions about their credibility.

“Those are diploma mills,†says George Gollin, a professor at University of Illinois who has investigated these and other medical schools which “don’t require their customers to do any meaningful academic work.â€

“It’s horrible,†Gollin says. “I could have printed him a degree on a laser printer and it would be … just as indicative of training and skills. What I think is terrible is that he`s using this, as I understand it, to treat patients who are desperately sick children.â€

USAT is on the Caribbean island of Montserrat and says on its website it has satellite campuses or offices in Colorado, Florida and Kentucky. In the past, it has claimed to also offer classes in London, U.K.

In a recent promotional video, USAT president Orien Tulp says that his students graduate faster and score better than those in conventional medical schools because “we coach them through the exams, we guide them through the exams in a very targeted system that they can not fail.â€

'Nothing is correct’

CBC News contacted some of the organizations USAT says have given it accreditation.

“We have found that USAT is not a legally recognized degree-granting institution of higher education approved by the Ministry of Education of Montserrat,†says the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers (AACRAO)

Steve Slade, director of the Canadian Post M.D. Education Registry (CAPER), says “nothing is correct†about the claims linking it to USAT.

“CAPER has nothing to do with accreditation… We will send a message requesting that this incorrect information be removed,†Slade wrote in an email.

Sources in Montserrat confirm that regional accreditation authorities are also wary of USAT’s operations and have refused it admission.

USAT has “not provided sufficient evidence to indicate teaching activities were actually taking place,†wrote an official with the Caribbean Accreditation Authority for Education in Medicine following a visit to the oceanside campus in 2012.

When contacted by CBC News, USAT owner Tulp said that all those who criticize his university are lying to the CBC. He refused to give an address for his campus, or the names and contact info of his professors. He said he has 1,000 students, and that USAT is one of only two legitimate universities in the Caribbean and one of the top 100 medical schools in the world.

As for Clement, he remembers him and he did not receive a NMD from his university. But he believes he was probably Clement’s professor in nutrition.

“I never created a fraudulent degree in my life, and I never will,†Tulp told CBC News. “Brian Clement he is not a naturopathic doctor from USAT. I can guarantee that. He shouldn’t be making false claims for one. If he is, I’ll withdraw his degree.â€

Hippocrates Health Institute declined CBC’s request for an interview with Clement.

CBC asked the Canadian College of Naturopathic Medicine (CCNM) about the efficacy of alternative therapies in treating acute lymphoblastic leukemia. Below is their response:

“The important thing to note here is that we are "adjunctive care" providers. As naturopathic doctors, I can confidently say that nothing we would prescribe would replace conventional chemotherapy or other conventional treatment, nor would we ever recommend this.

Naturopathic therapies prescribed in a case of ALL would be targeted at treating adverse effects of chemotherapy (mucositis, nausea, dysgeusia). Once chemotherapy is completed, we might focus on helping the patient to recover from residual side-effects and helping to prevent recurrence.

While intravenous vitamin C may be indicated as an adjunct therapy in other cancers, and has some emerging clinical evidence to support its use, I have not seen the evidence to support its use in leukemias. Pediatric data on the use of intravenous vitamin C is limited.â€

- Jill Shainhouse, ND, FABNO, Canadian College of Naturopathic Medicine (CCNM), Fellow of the American Board of Naturopathic Oncology

This makes me so mad. The bolding of a portion of the statement from a real Naturopathic Doctor is mine.

[tropaka]

The Children's Aid Society did not force treatment in either case, and now it seems McMaster has taken CAS to a hearing to attempt to force them to act in the next instance:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/aboriginal/makay ... -1.2787249

Breakey said that in this new case, the girl would have had a 90 to 95 per cent chance of survival if she had continued with chemotherapy. The pediatric oncologist also cautioned that those odds diminish the longer she is without treatment and said if she doesn't return to chemotherapy, she will die.

McMaster doctors were informed by the girl's mother that they had decided to quit chemo after 10 days of treatment. The same day, the hospital referred the case to children's aid.

After investigating, the Children's Aid Society decided not to intervene.

The hospital then decided to take the society to court in an attempt to force it to act.

McMaster Hospital defends court action to treat aboriginal girl

Brant Children's Aid Society director Andrew Koster testified today that he felt the case should have been heard at the provincial Consent and Capacity Board, which has the power to determine if the girl had the capacity to make her own decisions about her care.

The girl and her family are not participating in the court proceeding.

In an interview with CBC, her mother said: "As a member of the Six Nations Confederacy, I will not have my decisions of health care for my child debated and judged in the Canadian judicial system.… The Canadian judicial system does not have the authority to determine our law or practices, which predates the existence of Canada, valid or otherwise."

The girl is currently receiving treatment at the Hippocrates Health Institute, a holistic centre in Florida. Makayla also sought treatment there over the summer.

Makayla's family declined to be interviewed, but in a video posted on Facebook on Saturday Makayla proclaimed, "I just want to let everyone know that I'm alive and well and that I am healed."

In a statement released by her band on Friday, they say she is recovering from leukemia and the effects of chemotherapy.

The statement says, "She is under the care of her family and is receiving traditional medicines to assist with her recovery."

This is an older article, it is now reported that Sault is critically ill in hospital.

[docmom]

While the doctor should have been more sensitive, I can understand where s/he was coming from. It's beyond frustrating as a medical professional to have a treatment that you know offers a patient a decent chance at a normal life and to have it rejected in favor of something you know won't work. It's really frustration at the quacks peddling the stuff (and no they don't do it for "entertainment" but they do do it for money in a lot of cases) that spills over. I have every respect for the naturopath Tropaka quotes above and no problem with adjunctive therapies as long as they don't interfere with proven treatments, but that's not what was being offered in this case. My guess is that this doctor (inappropriately) lost it and that hasn't helped, but,really, I understand.

[salex]

A Florida health resort licensed as a “massage establishment†is treating a young Ontario First Nations girl with leukemia using cold laser therapy, Vitamin C injections and a strict raw food diet, among other therapies.

I will always be a little bitter that my sister in law (my husband and her husband are brothers) was convinced to use Vitamin C injections, the Alkaline Diet and prayer as her treatment choices for her breast cancer. She was so convinced she had made the right choice that she was visibly shocked when she discovered that she had not only not stopped or reversed the cancer, but that it had metasticized to the point she had no viable options. She was in her mid 40s.

[Terrie]

While I realize parents have the rights to make decisions for their child, I do not believe that extends to medical neglect. Ending chemo because it's "scary" or "toxic" almost always means a needlessly dead child.

Now, an adult can decide to forgo chemo for any of those reasons, well, adults can be stupid about their own health. At 11, the burden is on the family to show she is competent to make the decision. If an evaluation shows she understands the possible consequences, well, I'm sad for her doing something stupid, but it's her choice. If it shows she does not, then, yes, the court should be able to order treatment. If the family wants a second opinion, it needs to be a certified specialist in the field, so the parents are running to some quack will say "Oh, yes, we can fix this with herbs (and lots of money)."

If you can't tell, I feel very strongly about "religious exemptions" allowing medical neglect. Minors are NOT the property of their parents.

(I do understand guidedbybobafett's concerns, and agree some doctors are giant control freaks, but I think there's a line between "second opinion" with a real doctor and cases like this)

[eh02]

ALL has a 94% survival rate in the US. I quote that a lot for my job. Up from 4% in 1962.

But it is also a grueling 2.5 years of aggressive chemotherapy and steroids. It's tough. This is when parents have to not give in. Not for a disease like this with a 94% survival rate and it isn't a relapse, it's madness

Yep, this.

For children with highly fatal cancers, I can really understand when parents would rather their child not spend their last years, months, weeks or days on chemo. But government intervention is absolutely acceptable for such a treatable cancer, at least in my opinion, though of course there's NO easy solution when it comes to making difficult health decisions for minor children. Unfortunately I just don't think asking the child what they want is even relevant. Parents are there to make hard decisions that are best for their kids sometimes, even when it just kills you to see them in pain.

I don't mean to minimize how awful treatment for childhood leukemia is at all, because I unfortunately know several people who had it. But I think what really goes to show how great treatment options are right now is that I never even knew any of them had a history of health problems at all until they told me, because they are all healthy adults with very normal lives now. I hope she goes through with treatment and has the same outcome. That poor kid :(

[Joan of Snarc]

But her mother says she wanted to pursue a combination of traditional indigenous medicine and alternative therapies because she believes chemotherapy is “poison.â€

Well, yes. This isn't news, is it? That doesn't mean it's not the best option we have in a lot of cases.

[browncoatslytherin]

Well, yes. This isn't news, is it? That doesn't mean it's not the best option we have in a lot of cases.

bingo.

as a counterpoint, a lot of these "alternative treatments" turn out to be poison. funny how people like that don't like to think about that. just because it's natural doesn't mean it's okay. a lot of poisons are natural.

poisons can be used for effective treatment, but they must be administered by someone trained in their use so they can estimate proper dosages and monitor the affects and make adjustments if necessary.

[treemom]

94% survival rate people. That is what this child could have expected. I am not sure what she had was a relapse though, not sure if she made it all the way to consolidation phase. If they stopped treatment while in induction it was actually just the normal progression of the disease.

It is sad, because again this disease has a 94% survival rate in the US and a 90% cure rate after 10 years. If you want to read about visionaries, read about the total therapy regimen...the men and women who worked on this saved so many children that were considered lost causes.

http://www.stjude.org/all

[treemom]

Article on Dr. Pinkel and total therapy. http://cancerprogress.net/node/2096

[August]

There's a catch-22 regarding minors and medical care. They can't sign contracts or anything. They can't opt out of school. They are subject to bedtimes set by parents. But when it comes to medical care, they do have some legal rights, at least in the US. Who is going to argue that a pregnant 11-year-old shouldn't be allowed to have an abortion if she wanted one? You can't cherry pick when a kid should have rights and when they shouldn't when it's all in the same area. So what do we do? Do we say kids are kids and shouldn't have these rights so that parents can make decisions the kids may not like, or do we give kids autonomy and let them decide for themselves?

She needs to be gently convinced that it's best for her. Forcing her and having her fight tooth and nail every step of the way isn't going to do her a lot of good. If she starts physically fighting and yanking on tubes, do you strap her down and ruin her trust in adults?

Yes, absolutely you can cherry pick what they can decide and what they can't. Growing up is exactly the process of going from having control over virtually nothing to having control over virtually everything, and it's not a matter of flipping the switch from no control to full control on their 18th birthday.

Say this child was in the end stages of a certainly fatal cancer and chemo would extend her life from three weeks to six weeks at cost of great discomfort. You would counsel her, but give her the choice, wouldn't you? On the other end of the spectrum, an 11 year old is being bullied and wants to kill themselves, you would not let them, would you? This child is apparently definitely in the almost certain cure range, so no, she doesn't get to decide to die to avoid more chemo.

[August]

I will always be a little bitter that my sister in law (my husband and her husband are brothers) was convinced to use Vitamin C injections, the Alkaline Diet and prayer as her treatment choices for her breast cancer. She was so convinced she had made the right choice that she was visibly shocked when she discovered that she had not only not stopped or reversed the cancer, but that it had metasticized to the point she had no viable options. She was in her mid 40s.

On a message board I watched a woman with a newborn choose suicide by natural therapies over her children. It was heartbreaking. Those poor kids.

[treemom]

Dr. Pinkel is also responsible for WIC btw. The man is a genius. Absolutely a hero.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Yes, absolutely you can cherry pick what they can decide and what they can't. Growing up is exactly the process of going from having control over virtually nothing to having control over virtually everything, and it's not a matter of flipping the switch from no control to full control on their 18th birthday.

Say this child was in the end stages of a certainly fatal cancer and chemo would extend her life from three weeks to six weeks at cost of great discomfort. You would counsel her, but give her the choice, wouldn't you? On the other end of the spectrum, an 11 year old is being bullied and wants to kill themselves, you would not let them, would you? This child is apparently definitely in the almost certain cure range, so no, she doesn't get to decide to die to avoid more chemo.

In Ontario, Canada, no set age is defined as being capable of giving consent for medical treatment. It depends on whether someone is capable of understanding the consequences of accepting or refusing treatment.

[Eclipse]

I was a patient at McMaster Children's Hospital for most of my childhood. All the doctors and nurses I dealt with there were compassionate, understanding and took the time to explain treatments and options to me. They went out of their way to make the treatment, waiting rooms, exam rooms, etc. child friendly.

At 11 I was not ever asked to sign a form. They sometimes would tell me the various options and why they thought something was the correct course. They usually asked my opinion but looking back, it was the doctors and my parents who made those decisions, they just made me feel as though I had a hand in my own treatment. As I got older my input grew. By the time I was 16 it really was my decision and I was the one signing all my surgery consent forms and agreeing to various treatments.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I'll be following this case. It's unusual because it's the hospital, not the Children's Aid Society, that started the court application. The Brant CAS, for some reason, didn't want to intervene in these 2 cases. The Director of the CAS argued that a board should have ruled on whether she was capable of consenting or refusing treatment first. I also wonder if that CAS was wanting to avoid a potentially high-profile showdown, esp. if the whole band would be up in arms.

The courts might be swayed by the fact that this particular type of cancer has such a high cure rate. If it was less certain, you could argue that forgoing chemo might be tragic but understandable. You could also argue that an 11 yr old doesn't have the advanced knowledge and critical thinking needed to fully understand that a fake doctor promising a miracle cure with no side effects is a quack who will lead you to death. Even many adults don't say "please show me the peer-reviewed controlled studies in a reputable medical journal that prove that your techniques work over the long term."

[treemom]

The courts might be swayed by the fact that this particular type of cancer has such a high cure rate. If it was less certain, you could argue that forgoing chemo might be tragic but understandable. ."

That is a huge part of it for me. Knowing that ALL isn't a death sentence and while the treatment often has long term effects that current research is looking to reduce it is successful in almost all cases and most children with ALL do well and have long lives.

In cancers that still have really low survival rates, or even 50% survival rates I think I would understand the thinking more.

[2xx1xy1JD]

That is a huge part of it for me. Knowing that ALL isn't a death sentence and while the treatment often has long term effects that current research is looking to reduce it is successful in almost all cases and most children with ALL do well and have long lives.

In cancers that still have really low survival rates, or even 50% survival rates I think I would understand the thinking more.

I found articles about a somewhat similar case, involving the same disease and same hospital, in 2008. The CAS is different (there are separate agencies for each county/region). In that case, the judge said that the parent would only get his son back if he gave up the right to make medical decisions. At that point, the ALL was severe enough that the odds of survival were only 50%.

http://www.oacas.org/news/08/may/14chemo.pdf

It makes the refusal of Brant CAS to get involved more puzzling.

[Eclipse]

The court sided with the family http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/topstories/jud ... -1.2834674

I think the deciding factor was this girl is Native. Her family is otherwise loving and supportive and the children's aid has enough problems with distrust from the the local and larger Native community that they are probably reluctant to get involved because she comes from a good family claiming traditional beliefs. Respecting Native beliefs and practices is a very big issues and can sway institutions. So the are respecting her beliefs but she is going to die.

[tropaka]

yes, they have ruled in the family's favour in this second case (the first girl discussed has relapsed and is in hospital). Right now the un named girl is healthy.

Re native beliefs, I have never heard anyone claim a treatment to cure cancer, and traditional beliefs certainly don't include the quackery going on in the Florida massage clinic. Unfortunately the idea that this was a child in need of protection got trumped by the parents' constitutional rights and sensitivities around government interference in First Nations.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I'll look for the actual decision when it goes online, because I want to see exactly how the judge decided that a child could be in need of protection for medical reasons yet decline to make an order on cultural reasons. There is a requirement in Ontario child protection law to take native culture and traditions into consideration when dealing with native children, but this would be a pretty dramatic application of that idea.

[treemom]

How is Jesus part of the first nations culture?