Recall That Ice Cream Truck Song? racist

[nomoxian]

Baa Baa Black Sheep, too.

Just sung the first lines of each of those songs (in my head!) to confirm.

MIND. BLOWN. :pink-shock:

[RachelB]

Someone once told me that any Emily Dickinson poem can be set to The Yellow Rose of Texas. I don't know if it's true for all her Poems, but I have never found one that doesn't work.

"Yellow Rose" is in ballad meter. Dickinson wrote primarily in ballad meter-- possibly a reference to (and maybe a parody of?) the Congregational hymn tunes she grew up with. (The Calvinist theology of the 19th century Congregational church is all over the place in her poems, too-- frequently questioned or critiqued, but there nonetheless.)

[moodygirl86]

I always made it a game that whoever heard the ice cream truck bells first got to yell "HELL'S BELLS!" I always had popsicles in the freezer and we ate those instead. My son is 30 and has never had an ice cream from the truck.

You never bought him an ice cream from the van? The poor deprived child! No, only joking, we never did either. We used to call it a "song in the air" because we never physically saw the van as it didn't come into our Close. My mum told us that ice cream vans made her nervous as a child because her parents always drummed into her and my aunts the dangers of strangers and how you should never accept things from them. She took this so literally that when the ice cream man's freezer broke down and he was giving out free ice creams to all the kids before they could melt, she refused point blank and regretted it when she realised he was safe! I don't know if the ice cream van is still a trigge for her in that sense...

The ice cream van round my way usually plays Three Blind Mice or Greensleeves.

[smittykins]

D.e.m.e.n.t.o... Dr. Demento!

OK, so really going off topic here, I've always found it rather fascinating to find tune/lyric combinations that work -- my favorite is "Amazing Grace", "It Came Upon A Midnight Clear" and the theme song to Gilligan's Island. Lyrics and tunes are all interchangable. :)

My former Episcopal priest told me about the Amazing Grace-Gilligan's Island connection. I've also heard that "House of The Rising Sun" works too.

[ViolaSebastian]

My former Episcopal priest told me about the Amazing Grace-Gilligan's Island connection. I've also heard that "House of The Rising Sun" works too.

Ha! I despise Amazing Grace and I'll have to try it the next time I'm forced to sing it/listen to it.

[DGayle]

I never realized before that "Turkey in the Straw" and "Do your ears hang low?" were the same tune, and I've been hearing both since I was a kid!

The ABC's are sung to Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star, another connection a lot of people miss.

[ariel9]

I'm telling my age but there was a song that wakko from the animaniacs sang about the states and their capitals.

[DGayle]

Baa Baa Black Sheep, too.

I never thought about that one. You're right!

[Rachel333]

The twinkle/abc/black sheep connection is one I know thanks to taking Suzuki violin lessons and learning to play the "Twinkle" melody every possible way. :lol:

[Jasmar]

The tunes I learned for "Turkey in the Straw" and Do Your Ears Hang Low" are different. Similar, but definitely not the same.

But Baa Baa Black Sheep? NEVER knew that one! I figured out ABCs/Twinkle Twinkle when I learned to play the violin in 4th grade, but never made the third connection. Very useful thread. :lol:

[scc12]

I've always wondered how the bad ppl in the family got the black sheep label.Black sheep are rare and supposed to be more special. :)

[lilith]

I've always wondered how the bad ppl in the family got the black sheep label.Black sheep are rare and supposed to be more special. :)

I don't think "black sheep" connotes someone being "bad" so much as unconventional. You see it used in 19th and early 20th century memoirs and biographies to refer to people who took a different path in life, often by travelling extensively and marrying late or not marrying at all, but it's not usually used with disapproval, in my experience.

[Jane_Goth]

does anyone recall the book Little Black Sambo? It later got changed to Little Brave Sambo.

My dad gave me a copy when I was a little girl, as a joke! this was 40 years ago but still not really a funny joke even in 1970s Edinburgh. I don't have it anymore I ripped the pages out of it which according to my mum was something I would do when I didn't want to read a book anymore.

The only thing I can remember about the book was that there were tigers in it and they turned into ghee?

[RandomTrivia]

I loved that book as a tiny child. I thought he was brilliant to outsmart the tiger. I probably have a copy around somewhere.

That said, I think that the old origional bobbsey Twins books are likely far more racist than Little black Sambo. We only had the little golden books of the Bobbsey Twins when I was a kid, but my sister found an old copy of the full lenght books and gave me one for xmas a few years ago--I was amazed!

There's an updated version of Sambo, I've seen it somewhere recently but can't for the life of me remember where. I think it used the original story and new illustrations, or vice versa. It will come to me later, I'm sure.

Racist books - go find the Applewood versions of Nancy Drew, they're facsimiles of the originals from the 30s and 40s. Not bad overall, and the writing is better than the condensed (revised) versions, but some of the characterizations are not kosher by today's standards. I read one last fall, Nancy was interviewing replacement housekeepers and got a string of stereotypes - I think it was an Irish girl, Scottish woman, and black woman. The word "slattern" was used, maybe more than once. Now I'll have to go dig up some old Bobbsey Twins and read them, along with the original-version copies of the Hardy Boys, Tom Swift, and the Dana Girls. Most of those are Stratemeyer/Grosset & Dunlap, so Nancy & the Hardys, at least, were revised over the years. Not sure about the Bobbseys.

Songs: I learned back at geek camp* that you can sing any song to the tune of Gilligan's Island. It worked for everything we tried. Messed me up for weeks, and to this day, I would probably sing the camp song to the wrong tune. :)

*"Geek camp" = Missouri Scholars Academy, 3 weeks of geeks & nerds on a college campus having geeky fun.

[salsa]

Yeah, I thought it was Do Your Ears Hang Low or Turkey in the Straw as well. I was doubly confused because all the ice cream trucks around here play Pop Goes the Weasel.

Whaa???? Pop Goes the Weasel is racist????? Oh, nooooo...... I used it when I taught parent-tot swimming!!!! :oops: :o

(you see, on the "pop!" the parents tossed the babies in the air)

A penny for a spool of thread, another for a needle; that's the way the money goes - pop! goes the weasel! (what's racist about that?)

[salsa]

We still have a copy of the original book at my mom's house. I was always said it got such a bad rap, it is a really cute story.

I loved that story when I was a kid - about clever Sambo getting the tigers to chase each other until they made butter and how he ate so many pancakes with the butter the tigers made.

Some years back, I read an interesting article on it. The article pointed out that it is an Indian book and that "black" does not have the connotation that it does in the US. Think about it: it makes sense - in India, there are tigers. In the US, not so much It referred to the complexion of the boy, but not as an epithet.

Unfortunately, in the US, I'm afraid it's difficult for us to hear "black," in reference to a person's complexion, as meaning anything other than African American.

*edited because I left a phrase out the first time*

[thoughtful]

The twinkle/abc/black sheep connection is one I know thanks to taking Suzuki violin lessons and learning to play the "Twinkle" melody every possible way. :lol:

Mississippi Hot Dog . . .

I was in the first batch of American children to learn via the Suzuki method when it was brought to the US (I'm old!).

Whaa???? Pop Goes the Weasel is racist????? Oh, nooooo...... I used it when I taught parent-tot swimming!!!! :oops: :o

(you see, on the "pop!" the parents tossed the babies in the air)

A penny for a spool of thread, another for a needle; that's the way the money goes - pop! goes the weasel! (what's racist about that?)

Nope -- Doggie was pointing out, and colliemae was commenting on, the fact that there is a set of racist lyrics set to the Turkey in the Straw tune. Pop Goes the Weasel is hard to interpret, but there are lots of theories, none of them racist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_Goes_the_Weasel

[salsa]

Mississippi Hot Dog . . .

I was in the first batch of American children to learn via the Suzuki method when it was brought to the US (I'm old!).

Nope -- Doggie was pointing out, and colliemae was commenting on, the fact that there is a set of racist lyrics set to the Turkey in the Straw tune. Pop Goes the Weasel is hard to interpret, but there are lots of theories, none of them racist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_Goes_the_Weasel

Whew. I was afraid it might be the "monkey" reference. But then if "monkey" referred to African Americans, "weasel" would refer to Euro Americans and that's not exactly a positive connotation, either. ....

[nausicaa]

There's an updated version of Sambo, I've seen it somewhere recently but can't for the life of me remember where. I think it used the original story and new illustrations, or vice versa. It will come to me later, I'm sure.

Racist books - go find the Applewood versions of Nancy Drew, they're facsimiles of the originals from the 30s and 40s. Not bad overall, and the writing is better than the condensed (revised) versions, but some of the characterizations are not kosher by today's standards. I read one last fall, Nancy was interviewing replacement housekeepers and got a string of stereotypes - I think it was an Irish girl, Scottish woman, and black woman. The word "slattern" was used, maybe more than once. Now I'll have to go dig up some old Bobbsey Twins and read them, along with the original-version copies of the Hardy Boys, Tom Swift, and the Dana Girls. Most of those are Stratemeyer/Grosset & Dunlap, so Nancy & the Hardys, at least, were revised over the years. Not sure about the Bobbseys.

Songs: I learned back at geek camp* that you can sing any song to the tune of Gilligan's Island. It worked for everything we tried. Messed me up for weeks, and to this day, I would probably sing the camp song to the wrong tune. :)

*"Geek camp" = Missouri Scholars Academy, 3 weeks of geeks & nerds on a college campus having geeky fun.

Adding to the old racist book list: The Father Brown mysteries. The short story collection has one story in it that'll make your hair curl it's so bad. (And Father Brown, the genteel hero, says the worst things of all). Also the Anthony Berkeley mysteries have a few one off lines that'll take you right out of the stories. (Ironically as I was looking up how to spell his name, Lady Bibliophile's review of The Red House Mystery popped right up. Small world.)

[FloraKitty35]

My question is, which right wing hate group of drooling, mouth breathers will use it as an anthem? :drool:

[micatite]

I loved that story when I was a kid - about clever Sambo getting the tigers to chase each other until they made butter and how he ate so many pancakes with the butter the tigers made.

Some years back, I read an interesting article on it. The article pointed out that it is an Indian book and that "black" does not have the connotation that it does in the US. Think about it: it makes sense - in India, there are tigers. In the US, not so much It referred to the complexion of the boy, but not as an epithet.

Unfortunately, in the US, I'm afraid it's difficult for us to hear "black," in reference to a person's complexion, as meaning anything other than African American.

*edited because I left a phrase out the first time*

My mother still has a set of old 78 (speed) records reading aloud of the Story of Little Black Sambo, which my grandfather gave her when she was young. When I was a kid we had a stereo that could still play them and I used to love the story (of course, this was when there were still Sambos restaurants that had lighted glass images of the story above the serving counter.) I never thought of it the story as a bad thing, whether the kid was portrayed as black or not. I just loved the image of the tigers running around squashed in the kid's clothes and him being clever enough to get them back through divide and conquer. And pancakes with lots of butter. In my mind I can still hear the sound effects after certain lines, like the one about the shoes with toes that curled up, like THIS! (musical trill).

One of the new versions resets the story to India (where it truly belongs, because...tigers) and renames the characters. It's the Story of Little Babaji (who has a Papaji and a Mamaji who makes him his fabulous clothes.) The story is well told and the art is fantastic.

As for the ice cream truck song, our local ice cream truck (which doesn't come into my complex, actually, but I hear it while I'm out) does play that song. But growing up on a diet of Looney Tunes/Merry Melodies cartoons, I alway thought of it as Turkey in the Straw and as a song for square dances with cartoon animals.

[polecat]

There's an updated version of Sambo, I've seen it somewhere recently but can't for the life of me remember where. I think it used the original story and new illustrations, or vice versa. It will come to me later, I'm sure.

Racist books - go find the Applewood versions of Nancy Drew, they're facsimiles of the originals from the 30s and 40s. Not bad overall, and the writing is better than the condensed (revised) versions, but some of the characterizations are not kosher by today's standards. I read one last fall, Nancy was interviewing replacement housekeepers and got a string of stereotypes - I think it was an Irish girl, Scottish woman, and black woman. The word "slattern" was used, maybe more than once. Now I'll have to go dig up some old Bobbsey Twins and read them, along with the original-version copies of the Hardy Boys, Tom Swift, and the Dana Girls. Most of those are Stratemeyer/Grosset & Dunlap, so Nancy & the Hardys, at least, were revised over the years. Not sure about the Bobbseys.

Songs: I learned back at geek camp* that you can sing any song to the tune of Gilligan's Island. It worked for everything we tried. Messed me up for weeks, and to this day, I would probably sing the camp song to the wrong tune. :)

*"Geek camp" = Missouri Scholars Academy, 3 weeks of geeks & nerds on a college campus having geeky fun.

Oh, no, I hope not the Bobbsey Twins! I loved them as a little girl. I have a few on one of my bookshelves, but I obviously haven't read them in a few decades.

[Rachel333]

I loved the Bobbsey Twins, but I read the rewritten versions and I remember reading one of the originals for the first time and being pretty shocked by the racism. I did like that the originals were more old-fashioned as far as technology and such. I don't think all books need to be updated that way, like the new Nancy Drew who carries a cell phone and drives a hybrid car.

[RandomTrivia]

Yep, the Bobbseys seem to have been revised (per Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobbsey_Tw ... 0_rewrites), and I'm pretty sure the Tom Swifts were also revised - I found an Applewood facsimile of one of those last week, and I can't see why Applewood printed those if they hadn't been revised. The Applewood books are fun to read, other than the racism - the books are about 40 pages longer, and the descriptions and writing are better. The revisions tend to be more condensed, so you lose the atmosphere, so to speak, in favor of more action. They apparently didn't sell well, though, because I think they're all out of print now.

[scc12]

The Bobbsey twins....suddenly I have the urge to go smoke some cornsilk out back of the barn.LOL