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Scott Brown/NCFIC "Husbands Love Your Wives"


WonderingInWA

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So, I guess Scottie is having trouble selling his upcoming "webinar" entitled "Husbands Love Your Wives", so he is giving away the first session for free (the first of 6 sessions).

I am only 20 minutes into it (it's an hour long), and he and some other "authority", Joel Beeke, have basically rewritten a book from the 1600s written by William Gouge entitled "Domestical Duties". In a nutshell, they are trying to prove why women are the weaker sex, why they are in need of authority, why the husband is the authority, why men don't need to be nagged (but why it can be common), blah, blah, blah.

This is seriously who Scott Brown is and exactly the foundations of the whole patriarchy movement. This whole crap about men love their women as they love the church -- it is such bullshit.

If you have time, I encourage you to watch. I'm not sure I can stomach it all in one sitting.

http://vimeo.com/93163462

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And, well, I've made it to the 45-minute point, and Scottie is talking about why he thinks women have menstrual cycles and menopause. This man is so squicky. He explains it as women being hormonal and the Lord's way of showing the husband how patient he is with his church. WTF? And so the husband has to grapple (yep, that's the word he uses) with the things going on WITH HER. He's faithful to her even when she is in a state of despondancy (!) due to her hormones. What a piece of shit, Scott! And then he summarizes that God gave menstrual cycles and menopause to MEN to make them see the love God has for his church. Sigh. And when he says it, it's with a greasy smile. Blech. Yeah, Scott. That's it.

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Yep. God designed half of the human race to reinforce Scott's beliefs about theology.

I bet Scott thinks he's a sensitive and caring type for even thinking about it.

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Yep. God designed half of the human race to reinforce Scott's beliefs about theology.

I bet Scott thinks he's a sensitive and caring type for even thinking about it.

This sums of so much of what I can't stand about this particular "theology." The idea that God does something really shitty to someone you love to teach you a lesson. I'm sorry, but wouldn't it make more sense for God to do something shitty to you, instead of punishing some poor other person for your benefit?

I once got invited to a Beth Moore bible study before I knew anything about her (or the person that invited me for that matter). There's this video where she was talking about how something awful happened to her adopted son and she realized God had done that because she had gotten cocky and forgotten how much she needed him so he had to snatch her up and get her attention. Um, narcissistic much? Needless to say, I didn't go back.

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If anyone would like to do a review of this for our blog, please let me know. That goes for any things like this, the books etc.

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I used to see "I LOVE MY WIFE" bumper stickers all the time a few years ago. Was this a family-integrated church thing, an IFB thing or a just a general Southern Baptist thing? Was it related to the Promisekeepers? Somebody here must know.

I don't see them as often now, but every time I see one, I always think, "Really? You need to advertise this? Methinks he doth protest too much...."

:roll:

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This sums of so much of what I can't stand about this particular "theology." The idea that God does something really shitty to someone you love to teach you a lesson. I'm sorry, but wouldn't it make more sense for God to do something shitty to you, instead of punishing some poor other person for your benefit?

I once got invited to a Beth Moore bible study before I knew anything about her (or the person that invited me for that matter). There's this video where she was talking about how something awful happened to her adopted son and she realized God had done that because she had gotten cocky and forgotten how much she needed him so he had to snatch her up and get her attention. Um, narcissistic much? Needless to say, I didn't go back.

Prosperity Gospel types use that theology all the time. When my aunt was killed in a head on car crash two years ago, an old "friend" from the Christian school who is Charismatic and very invested in that theology sent me a long email about how God "let" the accident happen to show me that I was on the wrong path. :angry-banghead:

A close friend of mine got sucked into that thinking and concluded when her great grandmother died that God was trying to show her that there was "unacknowledged" sin in her life and she had to figure out what it was a stop it. I explained to her as best I could that her great grandmother died because she was 98 years old and people that age are prone to dying. :angry-banghead:

I always found that both narcissistic and an incredibly sad view of God. I have no interest in worshipping a God that kills off people's friends and family to punish people for random and even minor things that you don't even know you did.

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I used to see "I LOVE MY WIFE" bumper stickers all the time a few years ago. Was this a family-integrated church thing, an IFB thing or a just a general Southern Baptist thing? Was it related to the Promisekeepers? Somebody here must know.

I don't see them as often now, but every time I see one, I always think, "Really? You need to advertise this? Methinks he doth protest too much...."

:roll:

I'm guessing it was another product from the Fireproof movie, which also had the "I Love my Marriage" tee-shirts and stickers they had churches hand out to their congregations.

There is a mugshot of a man being booked for domestic violence against his wife and he is wearing an "I Love my Marriage" tee-shirt. Yes. Really.

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Hmm. My husband and the guys at our church are doing this webinar, but no one has had time to watch the first one yet. They're looking forward tout, but the period shtick sounds :?

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Do you go to a FIC, Babycakes? Does your church endorse patriarchy, or are they sort of clueless about Scotty?

This issue is just a triggery thing for me right now, separated from my husband of 20 years. I'm hearing all the complementarian stuff about how God hates divorce, etc. from him and his parents (um, no, God hates tyranny and injustice), and I'm just slowly coming out of their kind of thinking myself. Very glad to be in a church that doesn't buy this stuff, or have more invested in "marriage" than in the individuals who make it up. So this "love your wife" stuff gives me hives. Not that loving your wife is a bad thing, but these types use it to put a good face on unbiblical, abhorrent teaching designed to keep women in their place.

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I'm guessing it was another product from the Fireproof movie, which also had the "I Love my Marriage" tee-shirts and stickers they had churches hand out to their congregations.

.

I recently got my husband a shirt that said

I

Love

It When

My

Wife

Lets Me Play COD

:D

(Didn't know it was a Fireproof thing -- but still love it.)

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The "I Love My Wife" thing is from Promise Keepers, and predates "Fireproof."

When I first heard of it, I thought how pathetic these guys must be if they have to announce it rather than show it and live it. You know--kind of like Doug with Beall.

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The "I Love My Wife" thing is from Promise Keepers, and predates "Fireproof."

When I first heard of it, I thought how pathetic these guys must be if they have to announce it rather than show it and live it. You know--kind of like Doug with Beall.

Oh, thanks for the correction--whoops!

Do Promise Keepers ever do anything that isn't completely cloying and transparent?

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Oh, thanks for the correction--whoops!

Do Promise Keepers ever do anything that isn't completely cloying and transparent?

They did a presentation at the church of a very sweet but naive friend of mine. I tried to explain to her what patriarchy is, but it flew over her head, and she took PK at face value, so I gave up. :/

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So I saw this today, and to be honest with you, I am sick to my stomach...

ncfic.org/blog/posts/the_weaker_vessels_are_prone_to_provoke_their_husbands

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So I saw this today, and to be honest with you, I am sick to my stomach...

ncfic.org/blog/posts/the_weaker_vessels_are_prone_to_provoke_their_husbands

Yep, well, this is included in the free video I linked when I started this thread and it goes an entire hour. If the blog post made you sick, the video will push you over the edge.

Scott Brown is such a dick.

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Do you go to a FIC, Babycakes? Does your church endorse patriarchy, or are they sort of clueless about Scotty?

This issue is just a triggery thing for me right now, separated from my husband of 20 years. I'm hearing all the complementarian stuff about how God hates divorce, etc. from him and his parents (um, no, God hates tyranny and injustice), and I'm just slowly coming out of their kind of thinking myself. Very glad to be in a church that doesn't buy this stuff, or have more invested in "marriage" than in the individuals who make it up. So this "love your wife" stuff gives me hives. Not that loving your wife is a bad thing, but these types use it to put a good face on unbiblical, abhorrent teaching designed to keep women in their place.

I'm so very sorry for what you are going through, Jasmar. There is divorce in my family and I know it's very hard. I'm glad that you've found a church where you feel loved and supported.

Yes, our church is listed in the NCFIC directory, and some of us are friends with Scott. I have to say, I'm now afraid to listen to the webinar for fear it is going to be really off the hinge.

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So often when I see films of men from the Patriarchy movement, I am surprised by how effiminate they are. (Disclaimer: I don't think there is anything wrong with effiminate men and I don't think that men "should" be in a particular way, anything goes.)

But it's just weird that in a movement that so strongly emphasizes the difference between men and women, that men are manly men, the strong one, created to protect the weaker women they come across as so... not stereotype masculine at all. And not particularly strong and resilient in character. They give me more of a "little old church lady"-vibe in their voice, precence and body language.

If something happened, I wouldn't pick Scott Brown or Doug the Tool first to protect me. Heck, I probably would have a better chance of survival if I just threw Doug over my shoulder and fought for myself to get us out of there.

(Now I just have a mental image of Doug in a catastrophy: in a period costume, obviously, hiking up his skirt, wretching his hands and screaming for help.)

I wonder if men that are not the stereotype masculine type or perhaps not the mentally strong type, are particularly drawn to a movement where their wifes are told to really cultivate their weak and "feminine" side and submit and obey without questions. Weak men require weak wives to feel manly. It's easier to gang up with other weak men to suppress women with the help of Biblical scripture and other written manuals than to toughen up and work with yourself to grow a stronger character and grow as a human being.

Like I wouldn't date shorter men when I was young, because I thought they made me feel "unfeminine". Until I realized that my view of myself as a woman had nothing to do with other people or other people's height but was all in my head.

Your thoughts on the subject?

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I have always thought Scott Brown was effeminate and I'm not sure where that comes from for him. I have often wondered if he's gay (and not to stereotype effeminate men because I know lots of gay men that are not the slightest bit effeminate), but I've wondered if he's noticed that about himself. He's married to a woman who looks bold from the outside (but I think he would claim she submits to his authority), so his demeanor and their outward appearance is sort of a contradiction with what he preaches, I think. All 4 of their children are adopted and he has never spoken about why (not that that's really anybody's business, but it is rather odd for a church leader to not promote adoption -- they are all about constant impregnation and he only managed to adopt 4 kids, not 12).

I think that's my initial response (at 1am on a weeknight).

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If something happened, I wouldn't pick Scott Brown or Doug the Tool first to protect me. Heck, I probably would have a better chance of survival if I just threw Doug over my shoulder and fought for myself to get us out of there.

(Now I just have a mental image of Doug in a catastrophy: in a period costume, obviously, hiking up his skirt, wretching his hands and screaming for help.)

Or running down the street from one of his former interns with a gun...

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Hmm. My husband and the guys at our church are doing this webinar, but no one has had time to watch the first one yet. They're looking forward tout, but the period shtick sounds :?

Is your husband and the men in your church open to you saying, "I've heard about this and these are the things I disagree with."? If my husband was going to seriously watch a video where he learns stuff like this we would be having a very long discussion about this and what the message behind it is. God gave women periods and menopause so that men could see the love of God?! It sounds like they view women as just props in God's flannel board message to men. I would be very worried if my husband was taking that sort of message to heart.

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Or running down the street from one of his former interns with a gun...

Oh man, if it were one of the former interns, I'd leave him there to face the music.

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I have always thought Scott Brown was effeminate and I'm not sure where that comes from for him. I have often wondered if he's gay (and not to stereotype effeminate men because I know lots of gay men that are not the slightest bit effeminate), but I've wondered if he's noticed that about himself. He's married to a woman who looks bold from the outside (but I think he would claim she submits to his authority), so his demeanor and their outward appearance is sort of a contradiction with what he preaches, I think. All 4 of their children are adopted and he has never spoken about why (not that that's really anybody's business, but it is rather odd for a church leader to not promote adoption -- they are all about constant impregnation and he only managed to adopt 4 kids, not 12).

I think that's my initial response (at 1am on a weeknight).

This. Scott Brown has always pinged my gaydar big time, even more than DPIAT/R. The part in Return of the Daughters where he went on and on about "MEN should be cultivating close relationships and be best friends with OTHER YOUNG MEN"....he seemed just a little too excited about it.

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I have always thought Scott Brown was effeminate and I'm not sure where that comes from for him. I have often wondered if he's gay (and not to stereotype effeminate men because I know lots of gay men that are not the slightest bit effeminate), but I've wondered if he's noticed that about himself. He's married to a woman who looks bold from the outside (but I think he would claim she submits to his authority), so his demeanor and their outward appearance is sort of a contradiction with what he preaches, I think. All 4 of their children are adopted and he has never spoken about why (not that that's really anybody's business, but it is rather odd for a church leader to not promote adoption -- they are all about constant impregnation and he only managed to adopt 4 kids, not 12).

I think that's my initial response (at 1am on a weeknight).

In real life he does not come off as effeminate, but very soft-spoken. Even speaking to a huge room of people, his voice is soft and he tends to be a bit monotone. I have some girlfriends who don't really enjoy listening to him speak because of this, they like a more "manly" speaker. I don't mind it. I can't stand listening to Kevin Swanson; in person, he is all over the stage, pacing around and yelling occasionally. I hate that. So to each their own.

I see no reason why Scott's soft-spoken nature and Deborah's more bold appearance (I think it's her hair that makes her seem that way :-) is contradictory to the husband and wife dynamic that they espouse. Fundies aren't cookie cutters, much as some may think we are.

I know why they adopted. Deborah has been very open about it when speaking to women at conferences, etc., so it is definitely not a secret. As I couldn't find anything about it online anywhere, I won't share. Go listen to one of her ladies' lectures from last year, and you should find it. It's nothing sinister, though I was quite surprised when I found out. And I've been reading here so long, I felt like, "oh, that's why! How come they haven't written an article about it or something?" I do find it strange they haven't been more vocal/encouraging of adoption, like Voddie Baucham has.

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Is your husband and the men in your church open to you saying, "I've heard about this and these are the things I disagree with."? If my husband was going to seriously watch a video where he learns stuff like this we would be having a very long discussion about this and what the message behind it is. God gave women periods and menopause so that men could see the love of God?! It sounds like they view women as just props in God's flannel board message to men. I would be very worried if my husband was taking that sort of message to heart.

Yes, they absolutely are. You would be surprised how, um, lively, our debates can get after church. Everyone has pretty strong feelings about many issues, and the ladies and men are free to politely argue their case. There's no, "you're a girl, you don't get an opinion" type of stuff.

I am not at all worried about what my husband listens to, or what he takes to heart. (And if it's as bad as it sounds, he wouldn't.) He is decidedly NOT a jump-on-the-bandwagon type of guy, and he has no problem going against the flow of popular opinion within our friends and church family. Have you listened to it yet? We still have not so I'm trying to reserve judgement until we have.

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