Stay in the Castle

[Maggie Mae]

I wonder how many churches have bought the "3-act play" version of this and performed it.

Also, what does it say about the king's involvement with his kingdom, if the delivery boy doesn't recognize the princess. What does the king do all day?

Well, if the King is supposed to be a metaphor for God, then this really fails for believers. This King's Kingdom is probably constantly at war with disease and famine and greedy peasants profiteering off of other peasants.

[lilith]

I wonder how many churches have bought the "3-act play" version of this and performed it.

Also, what does it say about the king's involvement with his kingdom, if the delivery boy doesn't recognize the princess. What does the king do all day?

The Treasures from a Shoebox daughters performed it. According to their mother it was wonderful.

[formergothardite]

I remember hearing stories much like this. It is supposed to scare you into never disobeying your parents, even if you are an unmarried adult. See, what horrible things happen when you don't listen to them. God speaks through your parents so disobeying them is like disobeying God. Any independent thoughts will lead you into misery. I realized after leaving all this sort of stuff behind that it is all based around using fear to control people.

[MrsFoxx]

This makes me so sad.

This implication that if you follow all the rules, life won't slap you in the face is the epitome of visiting the sins of the fathers on the children.

The parents believe that if they control enough, keep their children close enough, indoctrinate them just the right way they will turn out exactly how you want. Which is to say, if you beat the free will out of them, they will only do your bidding.

Then you teach your kids the same thing - if you DO the right things, God will reward you with your heart's desire.

Um, nope. You can do the right things and still get dealt a shitty hand.

[TrueRebel1]

The phrase that caught my attention is this:

"This castle has never been a prison. This castle is a decision"

I think that's the most dangerous aspect of the "stay protected in your daddy's house" philosophy. The parents *convince* you that it's YOUR decision to stay locked up at home. You believe that they aren't holding you hostage...it's your choice, and you could just as easily chose to leave. But that is far from the truth. :-(

[Handmaiden of Dog]

The fact that this story is so popular proves that the fundie homefoolin crowd is raising children to zero critical thinking skills. Aside from all of the other plot holes pointed out already I would ask why is the princess so alone? Does she not have any handmaidens? Siblings? Is there no one inside the castle she can be friends with? Not a very royal lifestyle if you ask me-- besides which she is all dressed in working clothes and alone in the kitchen when she answers the door? What kind of castle is this?

The strangest point to me, though, was the idea that she was burdened with a pregnancy and housework in the third act. What other kind of life style could the girls reading this aspire to? This story hints that if only she had waited for her Prince she wouldn't have the backache and fatigue and wouldn't be living in a small house yet that is exactly where the fundie girls will end up. I guess I don't understand how her future would have been better if she had waited. What is the moral here? If you wait for your Prince you won't have a backache and your small house or trailer will seem like a castle?

[debrand]

The fact that this story is so popular proves that the fundie homefoolin crowd is raising children to zero critical thinking skills. Aside from all of the other plot holes pointed out already I would ask why is the princess so alone? Does she not have any handmaidens? Siblings? Is there no one inside the castle she can be friends with? Not a very royal lifestyle if you ask me-- besides which she is all dressed in working clothes and alone in the kitchen when she answers the door? What kind of castle is this?

The strangest point to me, though, was the idea that she was burdened with a pregnancy and housework in the third act. What other kind of life style could the girls reading this aspire to? This story hints that if only she had waited for her Prince she wouldn't have the backache and fatigue and wouldn't be living in a small house yet that is exactly where the fundie girls will end up. I guess I don't understand how her future would have been better if she had waited. What is the moral here? If you wait for your Prince you won't have a backache and your small house or trailer will seem like a castle?

Those are such obvious problems that I can't believe that fundies don't see how negative the story is. The father is a surprisingly weak person. Why didn't he find friends for his daughter so that she wouldn't be bored? Couldn't daddy have tried to involve his daughter in some sort of activity to keep her busy? And if he was going to let her pick her own husband, why didn't he get to know her boyfriend? Why would the delivery boy not know who his own future ruler is? Did the princess give up the right to the throne to marry the delivery guy? If she was going to inherit the throne wouldn't she be occupied with classes and doing good works to help her people?

The princess has NO control over her own life. She has to wait for daddy and her prince but if she does anything on her own, it will end in disaster. The bible doesn't teach this; in fact, there are several examples of very strong women in the bible who buck the rules: Abigail, Debra, the two midwives who lied to Pharaoh.

[nausicaa]

The fact that this story is so popular proves that the fundie homefoolin crowd is raising children to zero critical thinking skills. Aside from all of the other plot holes pointed out already I would ask why is the princess so alone? Does she not have any handmaidens? Siblings? Is there no one inside the castle she can be friends with? Not a very royal lifestyle if you ask me-- besides which she is all dressed in working clothes and alone in the kitchen when she answers the door? What kind of castle is this?

The strangest point to me, though, was the idea that she was burdened with a pregnancy and housework in the third act. What other kind of life style could the girls reading this aspire to? This story hints that if only she had waited for her Prince she wouldn't have the backache and fatigue and wouldn't be living in a small house yet that is exactly where the fundie girls will end up. I guess I don't understand how her future would have been better if she had waited. What is the moral here? If you wait for your Prince you won't have a backache and your small house or trailer will seem like a castle?

Yes, that's what struck me as well. If I had read that story as a kid the message I would have taken away from it is that marriage, housework, and babies is no fun!

Also the story seems to be pushing marrying for money, something I notice the fundies normally dance around or reject altogether, emphasizing instead the godliness of a young man (see John and Esther Schrader).

[DGayle]

I know this story is supposed to be a warning about how life will be awful if you don't shut your brain off and submit, but it should be seen as a warning about several things, but the primary thing is not to smother your kids. The princess wouldn't have snuck out if her father hadn't suffocated her. Because he basically kept her prisoner, she had to try learning about the world on her own, and her emotions got carried away with the first person who didn't treat her like a bird in a cage.

Another is the danger in not consulting your father (where is the mother?). If parents and their kids have good relationships, talking to one's parents can be a very good thing. Parents have lived through many things, and may have wisdom and good advice we can't necessarily get from our friends. But this isn't going to work when the parental figure has an ulterior motive, like the king in the story.

This story should be a warning to parents. If you want your kids to feel the freedom to be truly open with you and to talk to you about what's going on in their lives and to even ask for your guidance, you need to be someone who earns their respect, and part of the way to do this is to not suffocate them, and another part is to not make decisions about their adult lives without them having any idea.

[DGayle]

On another note, wouldn't a princess get SOMETHING, ANYTHING like money or a maid. Just because she's married to a commoner doesn't mean she's not a princess.

It's the "leave and cleave" mentality fundies have about how your kids cease getting ANY support after they marry. Was it the Above Rubies bitch who thought it was funny that her daughter and grandkids were living in horrible poverty and their home was being flooded and they had to run in the snow to get warm because they didn't have heat? While granny-dearest was living in luxury?

I don't think parents should be on the hook to support their adult kids, especially when adult kids make decisions that you should see from the start are bad. (Want to marry a druggie? Don't expect me to bail you out.) But the loving, parental thing to do is to help when you can if things take an unforeseen turn for the worst (spouse gets sick, job loss, etc.), and no, not going along with an arranged marriage doesn't make a bad end foreseeable. Too bad fundies cross these things, and tend to cut off all support even if you do exactly as ordered and marry who you're told, like the Above Rubies woman's daughter. No help, even when it could be afforded, when things got bad unforeseeably.

If Princess Fundy had married that prince (being rich and handsome doesn't mean someone won't be an abuser, but fundies ignore this), she would have been financially cut off too.

[DGayle]

I think that it is weird that the princess lost all social status just by marrying a commoner. If her dad was a decent man wouldn't he make certain that his pregnant daughter and mother of the future heir to the kingdom was comfortable?

The princess has a vagina. Therefore a man would get the kingdom. In absence of a son, there's be a cousin or someone else who would get it. Princess is property of the penis she married, so is now poor. If she had married the prince, she'd have gone to his kingdom, and maybe be would inherit his wife's kingdom. She never would have been the ruler. She doesn't matter.

[church_of_dog]

The fact that this story is so popular proves that the fundie homefoolin crowd is raising children to zero critical thinking skills. Aside from all of the other plot holes pointed out already I would ask why is the princess so alone? Does she not have any handmaidens? Siblings? Is there no one inside the castle she can be friends with? Not a very royal lifestyle if you ask me-- besides which she is all dressed in working clothes and alone in the kitchen when she answers the door? What kind of castle is this?

The strangest point to me, though, was the idea that she was burdened with a pregnancy and housework in the third act. What other kind of life style could the girls reading this aspire to? This story hints that if only she had waited for her Prince she wouldn't have the backache and fatigue and wouldn't be living in a small house yet that is exactly where the fundie girls will end up. I guess I don't understand how her future would have been better if she had waited. What is the moral here? If you wait for your Prince you won't have a backache and your small house or trailer will seem like a castle?

Well, you know, the prince she was supposed to wait for was also royalty, so by waiting for the "right" one, she would have been able to have servants to have that backache for her… And the prince would never be an abuser because Almighty Dog wouldn't have made that the plan… :doh:

[Georgiana]

I know this story is supposed to be a warning about how life will be awful if you don't shut your brain off and submit, but it should be seen as a warning about several things, but the primary thing is not to smother your kids. The princess wouldn't have snuck out if her father hadn't suffocated her. Because he basically kept her prisoner, she had to try learning about the world on her own, and her emotions got carried away with the first person who didn't treat her like a bird in a cage.

Another is the danger in not consulting your father (where is the mother?). If parents and their kids have good relationships, talking to one's parents can be a very good thing. Parents have lived through many things, and may have wisdom and good advice we can't necessarily get from our friends. But this isn't going to work when the parental figure has an ulterior motive, like the king in the story.

This story should be a warning to parents. If you want your kids to feel the freedom to be truly open with you and to talk to you about what's going on in their lives and to even ask for your guidance, you need to be someone who earns their respect, and part of the way to do this is to not suffocate them, and another part is to not make decisions about their adult lives without them having any idea.

The mother can't be in the story, because that would be confusing. You see, these women are always princesses, but never queens. The word "Queen" implies some power and status; even if she is only a queen consort she would still be assumed to have some amount of political sway and outrank many men in the court.

Princess denotes someone who is little, meek, and usually locked in a tower in need of rescue.

Queen denotes someone who is generally fairly influential, self-realized, and strong.

That's why there are no queens in Fundy stories.

[DGayle]

The phrase that caught my attention is this:

"This castle has never been a prison. This castle is a decision"

I think that's the most dangerous aspect of the "stay protected in your daddy's house" philosophy. The parents *convince* you that it's YOUR decision to stay locked up at home. You believe that they aren't holding you hostage...it's your choice, and you could just as easily chose to leave. But that is far from the truth. :-(

It technically is a choice. See, you can choose to stay a servant to your daddy and have a roof and food and be around your family, or you can choose to leave the lifestyle, lose your only support, and find out the hard way your education didn't even prepare you for burger-flipping.

Basically it's a choice of which hand to cut off. Still a choice, but there's no way to not get hurt.

A while back I read an article by an ex-member of Westboro who said she only stayed as long as she did because it was the only way she'd be allowed around the younger siblings she was so close to.

Still, to cult-leaders, these are valid choices since they see the choice they made as harmless. The princess has the choice of security in the castle with its isolation, or leaving and living in poverty with her father basically turning his back on her. Shitty, shitty choice, and easy to say there isn't a choice.

[nobleandstrong]

Libby Anne of Love, Joy, Feminism did a set of blog articles on this book/story. It was an important book to her growing up. And I can't seem to find the link to that particular set of posts. :(

[DGayle]

The mother can't be in the story, because that would be confusing. You see, these women are always princesses, but never queens. The word "Queen" implies some power and status; even if she is only a queen consort she would still be assumed to have some amount of political sway and outrank many men in the court.

Princess denotes someone who is little, meek, and usually locked in a tower in need of rescue.

Queen denotes someone who is generally fairly influential, self-realized, and strong.

That's why there are no queens in Fundy stories.

You'd think a queen could be used to show how happy a woman would be following the rules. The lack of mothers sends the clear message that once you've pushed a baby out of your vagina or had one cut out, your job is done, Broodmare!

Sadly a lot of queens really have no power. How much power did any of Henry VIII's wives have? Even the one who was born on a battlefield and raised in the middle, literally, of wars? Katherine died alone because she wasn't a good enough little wifey, even though she submitted and loved her husband through his abuses of her.

[BlondeAgent007]

Among all the other plotholes- why the fuck did the king let the poor noble prince ride all the way down there to deliver the news? She had been gone a year. You would think he'd have the decency to drop him a line in the past 365 days to let him know not to bother making the journey. The king is a total dick.

[JaChelle Sugar]

Just how stupid do the fundies think their daughters are? Do they give their daughters no credit for critical thinking?

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Just how stupid do the fundies think their daughters are? Do they give their daughters no credit for critical thinking?

To be able to critically think you need to be in an environment that fosters critical thinking. None of these people are in such an environment. If they were, they wouldn't be in a cult.

[Hane]

To be able to critically think you need to be in an environment that fosters critical thinking. None of these people are in such an environment. If they were, they wouldn't be in a cult.

As I always think when I read stuff like this, "Boy, their God is stupid. Mine knows how to analyze what's going on in people's heads, being omniscient and all that."

[browngrl]

Just how stupid do the fundies think their daughters are? Do they give their daughters no credit for critical thinking?

Far from giving credit - I think fundie parents would be displeased if their daughters started questioning their status quo. I think a "Journey to the Heart" would be swiftly arranged. They seem to want their children - in particular the girls - to "instantly obey". So a girl who said "hey, wait a minute, this does not make sense" would be a problem. Fundies seem to only approve of questioning if they first approve of the answer.

eg: answer - because Jesus !eleventy!, question - fundie approved

vs

answer - possibly not Jesus ?, question - fundie disapproved

[Cleopatra7]

The mother can't be in the story, because that would be confusing. You see, these women are always princesses, but never queens. The word "Queen" implies some power and status; even if she is only a queen consort she would still be assumed to have some amount of political sway and outrank many men in the court.

Princess denotes someone who is little, meek, and usually locked in a tower in need of rescue.

Queen denotes someone who is generally fairly influential, self-realized, and strong.

That's why there are no queens in Fundy stories.

In patriarchy, regardless of the culture, it's all about the fathers. In ancient Greece, for example, if a couple divorced, the children went with the father while the mother was banished to the home of her nearest male relative. Part of this is because the role of the female in reproduction was not understood until the 19th century, so it was believed that all of the material used to make a child came from the father's semen, and the mother just acted as an incubator, which meant that the children didn't really belong to her anyway. However, even if the ancient Greeks did know about eggs, chromosomes, or DNA, it wouldn't have affected their outlook because it was fundementally a man's world, like modern religious fundamentalism. Even though modern fundies have some understanding about biological reproduction and such, they still overemphasize the role of the father to the detriment of the mother. However, I think they are also reacting to the perceived denigration of fatherhood in secular society by raising up fathers to be patriarchs and overlords in their homes. As in antiquity, this means that children, especially girls, just become pawns to be used as his will.

[Joyster]

Resurrecting this thread just to say, Stay in the Castle, is required reading at Massiillon Baptist College.  The students have to  turn in a paper saying they read it.  This is the school the second Rodrigues boy attends.  I didn't know what it was, but I got a good education about the reading here.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Joyster

[Cults-r-us]

Oh, you guys! When Mel at When Cows and Kids Collide blog (anybody know why she quit blogging?) reviewed the Malley castle book, I could not wait for each chapter's review. It was so entertaining! The opposite to Jimmy Cricket on the Princess' shoulder was this bad-influence alligator in the moat who filled her head with what fun could be had in the village, as an alligator does. Luckily, our heroine does not succumb to bad advice and waits for her perfect prince as her wise, King father advises. Now while this was wildly entertaining for me (does that speak to the bleakness of my social life?) the real tragedy is the poor girls who read this ridiculous drivel as a blueprint to a happy life.