Doug Wilson ~ sexual abuse apologist

[Curious]

This topic was brought up in the last few pages of the Lourdes/Nolan/Lawsuit thread and I thought that it was important enough to have it's own thread, as it's probably being missed by folks that do not read the "mega threads."

There is discussion on it starting here in the Lourdes thread if you want to get in at the beginning: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21549&start=660#p724736

The sane Botkin, Katie, writes about Doug in her newest post here: http://kbotkin.com/2014/04/22/vice-vict ... ug-wilson/

The whole post is good, but this is the part that is being talked about in the Lourdes thread:

Doug Wilson’s denial of the realities that made such a situation possible only ensures that such things will continue to happen, perhaps even in his own community. They already have, of course. I’m thinking specifically of the case where a young teenage girl was molested, and Wilson saw fit to accept the abuser’s “repentance,” and refused the girl communion because, naturally, she wasn’t a victim either; she was a fornicator, and her refusal to admit to such a charge meant she was unrepentant. Unshockingly to probably everyone but Doug Wilson and those who think like him, the same abuser, who for a long time was a member in good standing at Wilson’s church, has now been charged with various domestic violence suits in Latah County, and his own children are being sheltered from him by the courts.

These suits will not stop because Wilson cries “adultery” without addressing how such broad teachings as “if your husband sins against you, you have an independent duty to submit to him, and to teach your children to submit to him” can play into this. Until abusers are held accountable — and I mean really accountable — women will marry “repentant” jackasses with the blessing of pastors like Doug Wilson, and they will submit until they are literally strangled.

The girl she is talking about has a blog here: natalierose-livewithpassion.blogspot.com/2010/07/no-more-tape-over-my-mouth.html

[NotALoserLikeYou]

The guys name is Jamin Wight for easy googling. Lots of sites dating back 7 or 8 years.

[debrand]

Doug Wilson is a very smug, obnoxious asshole. In fact, calling him an asshole is an insult to assholes.

His brother Gordon is teaching a microbiology course at a university except his brother does not accept evolution. There is an uproar among some of the professors and Doug is his usual jerkish self about the situation.

dougwils.com/s21-atheism-and-apologetics/their-temples-of-reason.html

Here is an article on the Sitler case on The Wartburg Watch

thewartburgwatch.com/2012/07/18/the-real-doug-wilson-encouraged-presided-over-the-marriage-of-serial-pedophile/

[debrand]

freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2561

Several years ago we had a discussion thread on Doug Wilson started by moi. I included a link to the Sitler's marriage story. Because the link has been scrubbed, I will include the same quotes that I used on that thread. Sadly, I have no working link for the original quote

Here is where is was:

june11eleven.com/?page_id=104

Steve was being married off to Katie because of the charges against him. I guess that Doug thought that marriage would somehow cure his tendencies toward little kids?

It was something like Friday or Saturday when Mr. Iverson called me and wanted to know if he could meet with me face to face. I didn't have very much time that day, but it worked if I went to friendship square right then. So I showed up in my dirty Car-harts and my paint covered T-shirt to meet Mr. Iverson, dressed in his best and surrounded by some hundred NSA students all dressed up for convocation week. I sheepishly said hello, and he pulled me aside and told me that dinner on Sunday wasn't just an ordinary dinner, that he had in fact gotten a young girl, Katie Travis, and her family to stay an extra day to meet me. They were all in Moscow to drop off Jenni, Katie's younger sister, for her Sophomore year at NSA. His description of Katie was that, though NSA was tough for her, she persevered through and she was, “pretty good looking, tooâ€. Though the whole meeting, and the thought of being inspected by three people at once was a little nerve wracking, I said that it all sounded great.

Before it goes dead, here is a video of the couple's wedding. If Steven ever abuses again, everyone involved in finding him some gullible young woman to marry-including her fucked up parents-should be sued for everything that they owe. Seriously, what kind of mom or dad would encourage their child to marry a known pedophile?

vimeo.com/26144501

The girl is some sort of sacrificial lamb.

I thought that the bride and groom stood together to make their vows. These two said their vows while Kate was standing on the bottom of the stage. I'm watching the wedding now. It is supposedly a 42 minute service but the vows have already been said. Of course, it has been a long time since I attended any formal wedding.

[debrand]

I suppose that is Doug Wilson officiating at the wedding? Somehow he manages to look smarmy even when saying nothing but just looking at the bride. He states that "This is a Christian wedding." If a Christian wedding means that you cover for a pedophile, I think that all people-including Christians-should run like hell from one.

mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2011-June/076772.html

The link above is another interesting gem on this caseL

This morning I sat in a nearly empty courtroom and listened to arguments regarding the June 11th marriage of Steven Sitler and Katie Travis. The Department of Corrections unambiguously stated that they did not support

this marriage. In late March Mr. Sitler told his probation officer that in a year or so (predicated, apparently, on Miss Travis' graduation from a college program) they want to start a family. Following that conversation,

and because of the potential risk to any children Mr. Sitler might father, the DOC (Department of Corrections) requested further psychological evaluation of Mr. Sitler. The results of his AASI = Abel Assessment for

Sexual Interest <http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com/content/82/4/457.full>

raised concerns.

and

It may be the case that Mr. Sitler will not be allowed to share a home with his wife and child

or children. This remedy may be utilized in Idaho when the father is a convicted pedophile. Judge Stegner ruled that the wedding could go forward and issues regarding the protection of children will be addressed if and

children are a factor in the marriage.

The following description of Ed Iverson, Steven Sitler, Doug Wilson and everyone else involved in this insane tragedy of a marriage makes me respect the writer, Rose Huskey, quite a bit.

Now we know for sure what I have strongly suspected for several years, Ed Iverson is a patronizing, lickspittle,

jackass.

The questions that I can't answer are the ones that are haunt me. Why isn't Steven Sitler, a dog's dinner of a scum bag, sitting in prison right now? Why was a deal ever cut with this piece of nastiness? Do any of you think

that he revealed all the names of the children he molested - all dozens and dozens and dozens of them? What led Katie Travis to want to marry this kind of man? What led Ed Iverson, Doug Wilson, Tim Tucker, and all the elders of

Christ Church, to choose Katie Travis to be their local trash collector? What could she possibly have done to them to deserve what she is going to get in the years ahead? They are keenly aware of Steven Sitler's long

history of molesting young children, and yet they acted as a trio of grotesque matchmakers (the witches of Macbeth and a bedraggled Greek chorus comes to mind) in giving their blessing to this match.

[debrand]

learn-usa.com/relevant_to_et/ss&s004.htm

Here is a letter from Steven's parents describing why they are cancelling their subscription to Focus on the Family. They were upset that Dobson said something positive about public school.

Here are some random quotes out of order. Please remember as you read this that their son molested multiple children.

I dare say there is no "battle" for the hearts and minds of American's Christian youth – we willingly turn over our "soldiers" to the other side of the cultural war.

and

Please remove us from your mailing list for the Focus on the Family Magazine. We have been receiving your magazine for a number of years but after receiving the last issue with the article, Rebuilding Hope for Public Schools, we have concluded that we no longer desire to have this kind of "milktoast" Christianity coming into our home. The article on Charter schools was equally offensive to the informed. You have done a disservice to all by holding out to your readers a false sense of hope that public schools can be "rebuilt".

Mr. Dobson, when is the church in America going to wake up and realize that we are sending our children off to a pagan institution which is steeped in humanism and espouses a total worldview which is the very antithesis of Christianity? We are so far removed from a Christian understanding of education that we justify this public school "choice" as simply a matter of Christian liberty – as if education could ever be considered neutral territory. What ever happened to, "he who is not for me is against me", and "do all to the glory of God", and "bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ"?

The church dares to preach to the world about the state of our ungodly culture. Christianity, today, seems blind to the fact that we participate in building that ungodly culture by justifying participation in its main indoctrination center. We contribute our most precious possessions to the ungodly (in this case, the State – to which God never gave the duty nor the authority to educate. This is not the civil magistrate's job).

We need more Elijahs today – those who are courageous enough to call God's people back to Him. "How long will you falter between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him". In the area of education, the Church has indulged in syncretism at best – we have followed after other gods thinking we could mix it up with the true God. And, we are reaping the consequences THE God has always promised for such behavior.

The Littleton tragedy seldom prompted the question, "What are they teaching our children?" As Christians, we ought to know what it is that they are NOT teaching our children – we ought to know, as the founders of Harvard did, that Christ is to be laid at the foundation of all knowledge and wisdom – all else dishonors Him. We cannot claim to follow Him and then go chasing after our own false gods.

With the advent of education reform and the continued bankruptcy of government education, I have patiently waited to see if you would take a stand. You have not. Enough is enough – we want more from our Christian publications – especially those whose focus is the family. Thankfully, there are more and more Christian publications who are once again teaching and espousing doctrine and an application of God's Word to ALL of life and living – including education. The Lord is raising up Christian leaders who are refusing to compromise – a few Elijahs. Amen.

Praying,

Dave & Roxanne Sitler

(address on file)

P.S. I have invested over six years in researching the government school system, Goals 2000, STW etc., and have been very politically active in the local level and the state legislature; written legislation and reports; done public awareness through radio, seminars, lectures, published articles etc. Public education is bankrupt – rebuilding (?) is a wrongheaded idea – please encourage Christians to protect their children by getting them OUT – encourage the Christian community to develop a truly biblical philosophy of education! R.S.

[DomWackTroll]

The happy couple on Facebook. Friends with Nancy Wilson.

facebook.com/katie.sitler.9?fref=ts

[apple1]

DW: "What is grace exactly? ... The grace of God as revealed in Christ is a monument to how much and how deeply God hates sin." He goes on to expound on God's wrath. (at a wedding, no less)

I realize that the enormity of this statement probably is insignificant to non-Christians, but...

Just like Bill Gothard, DW gets one of the most basic tenets of Christianity wrong, i.e. what grace is.

(No, this does not minimize my horror at DW's marrying someone off to to pedophile, or the machinations that got the charges minimized to almost nothing.)

BTW, who is the Iverson that is referred to earlier?

[debrand]

DW: "What is grace exactly? ... The grace of God as revealed in Christ is a monument to how much and how deeply God hates sin." He goes on to expound on God's wrath. (at a wedding, no less)

I realize that the enormity of this statement probably is insignificant to non-Christians, but...

Just like Bill Gothard, DW gets one of the most basic tenets of Christianity wrong, i.e. what grace is.

(No, this does not minimize my horror at DW's marrying someone off to to pedophile, or the machinations that got the charges minimized to almost nothing.)

BTW, who is the Iverson that is referred to earlier?

Apparently, Ed Iverson is the librarian at NSA. I found an article mentioning him here. I am not breaking the link because I don't think that the author is fundie and he doesn't sound like a fan of Iverson either.

http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/ngier/IversonBirch.htm

and here is a lot more about Doug Wilson and his apparent neo Confederate leanings

http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/ngier/Wilson.htm

Here is a link about Wilson's support of racial slavery

http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/ngier/wi ... lavery.htm

Now that I am searching, there is A LOT of evidence against Doug Wilson for multiple things-racism, bad theology, supporting a pedophile, misogyny, being an all around asshole. It amazes me that anyone would support him.

[debrand]

So sorry, Iverson is the Vice President of New St. Andrews College. I found a youtube video of him but I am only now beginning to watch. I expect to be bored.

youtube.com/watch?v=KP2lZgKV1yY

[MrsFoxx]

I suppose that is Doug Wilson officiating at the wedding? Somehow he manages to look smarmy even when saying nothing but just looking at the bride. He states that "This is a Christian wedding." If a Christian wedding means that you cover for a pedophile, I think that all people-including Christians-should run like hell from one.

mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2011-June/076772.html

The link above is another interesting gem on this caseL

and

The following description of Ed Iverson, Steven Sitler, Doug Wilson and everyone else involved in this insane tragedy of a marriage makes me respect the writer, Rose Huskey, quite a bit.

OMG. Please tell me they haven't had children. This is a horrific situation. Does Wilson believe that sin just disappears? God help him if any of his children or grandchildren are molested. Will he forgive the molester and marry them to one of the victims? Apparently tools run in the Doug name.

[apple1]

So sorry, Iverson is the Vice President of New St. Andrews College. I found a youtube video of him but I am only now beginning to watch. I expect to be bored.

youtube.com/watch?v=KP2lZgKV1yY

Thanks for the info. I was trying to figure out who the heck he was...

[Sugarbob]

Natalie's blog needs a larger audience. Her voice needs to be heard over the chorus of Yes Men saying that Doug Wilson "gets the gospel right". If the Good News is that pedophiles and violent criminals get cheap forgiveness and their sins covered up by their pastors at DW's church, yeah, then he "gets the gospel right". Good news, women & children! You are garbage, worthless, made for use & abuse. Good news, abusers! Just say some pretty words of 'repentance' and good ol' boy Doug Wilson will go to court and petition the judge to be lenient on your behalf.

natalierose-livewithpassion.blogspot.ca/2013/01/perpetuating-abuse-warningexplicit.html

[debrand]

Again, I apologize so much for posting so much information on Wilson

http://www.canonwired.com/featured/southern-slavery/

Here he calls himself a palo Confederates. He says that he believes that the Confederates were right. It sounds as if he is for state's rights.

I am four minutes into the video and he is dancing around the question, Do you support slavery?

I did not know that Paul Hill who shot a doctor in the 90's was a reformed Christian. Interesting that Doug admits that his friend, Steve Wilkinson(have we discussed him? The name sounds familiar) spent hours trying to talk his friend down from his radicalism shortly before the shooting. Did Wilkinson know his friend was going to kill someone and if so, why didn't he go to the police?

From the video, John Brown, the abolitionist, was a blood thirsty thug

I am almost at the six minute mark and he still hasn't clarified his beliefs on slavery

He thinks that slavery should have ended peacefully in the south. No one thinks that warfare is a good thing but I don't' see any way that the south would have willingly given up their slaves.

He says that the problem can't be solved by armies but it was solved by armies.

Now he is talking about debt slavery and saying that we shouldn't storm the banks and kill the bankers.

He says that all the slaves in the New Testament were white. I think that his point is that racial slavery is wrong but of course, not all the slaves in the Roman time period were white or brown or black. They were from all races so I am not certain why he says that they were all white.

He says that it is good that slavery ended but he still didn't say that slavery was wrong. He spent ten minutes dancing around the actual question

[MrsFoxx]

Again, I apologize so much for posting so much information on Wilson

http://www.canonwired.com/featured/southern-slavery/

Here he calls himself a palo Confederates. He says that he believes that the Confederates were right. It sounds as if he is for state's rights.

I am four minutes into the video and he is dancing around the question, Do you support slavery?

I did not know that Paul Hill who shot a doctor in the 90's was a reformed Christian. Interesting that Doug admits that his friend, Steve Wilkinson(have we discussed him? The name sounds familiar) spent hours trying to talk his friend down from his radicalism shortly before the shooting. Did Wilkinson know his friend was going to kill someone and if so, why didn't he go to the police?

From the video, John Brown, the abolitionist, was a blood thirsty thug

I am almost at the six minute mark and he still hasn't clarified his beliefs on slavery

He thinks that slavery should have ended peacefully in the south. No one thinks that warfare is a good thing but I don't' see any way that the south would have willingly given up their slaves.

He says that the problem can't be solved by armies but it was solved by armies.

Now he is talking about debt slavery and saying that we shouldn't storm the banks and kill the bankers.

He says that all the slaves in the New Testament were white. I think that his point is that racial slavery is wrong but of course, not all the slaves in the Roman time period were white or brown or black. They were from all races so I am not certain why he says that they were all white.

He says that it is good that slavery ended but he still didn't say that slavery was wrong. He spent ten minutes dancing around the actual question

You have to admit, at least he's following through with his literal Bible interpretation. I suppose he sold his daughter Bekah's virginity for fifty shekels of silver as well.

[cindyluvs24]

So a pedophile getting married doesn't violate the bible but a gay person getting married would? Would Doug W. or one of his minions care to explain? Ot: FJ makes my coffee breaks so interesting.

[Laurabelle]

Forgive me for showing my newbie-ness for a second, but is there an old thread somewhere I can look at regarding this whole Doug Wilson marrying off a pedo to this Katie girl? I’ve never heard this before and want to get some back story…

[debrand]

Links to our former discussions on Wilson and Sitler

http://freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic. ... it=stitler

http://freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2561

[louisa05]

Forgive me for showing my newbie-ness for a second, but is there an old thread somewhere I can look at regarding this whole Doug Wilson marrying off a pedo to this Katie girl? I’ve never heard this before and want to get some back story…

Wartburg Watch covered it extensively:

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2012/07/18/ ... pedophile/

[MamaJunebug]

Thank you for starting this!

Are we archiving screenshots of their pages anywhere? Or however you do that.

Katie, bless her, looked entirely unaware in her wedding video. I couldn't read her father's expression, possibly because I was mentally screaming, "Man, what are you DOING?!"

The little barb about how Katie is graduating NSA but only just leads me to believe that she might not be an exceptionally intelligent individual, all the more reason to sacrifice her to the hell that will be life with a convicted sex felon.

My heart breaks, my gut hurts, I want the entire world to know what Wilson and his cohorts - including Mr. Travis - have done. In-freakin'-excusable. :pull-hair:

[congusto]

Julie Anne over at SSB posted yesterday: "Queen Bees of Homeschooling Stacy McDonald and Kelly Crawford Don’t Like the “Victim†Word in the Lourdes Torres-Manteufel vs. Doug Phillips Lawsuit"

The Happy-in-His-Love-Helpmeets dove into the fray in defense of the reprehensible Wilson, and JA called them out on this. They then felt convicted to swing by JA's comment section and school the doing-it-wrong Christians. I'm happy to report they got short shrift. :clap:

[formergothardite]

Julie Anne over at SSB posted yesterday: "Queen Bees of Homeschooling Stacy McDonald and Kelly Crawford Don’t Like the “Victim†Word in the Lourdes Torres-Manteufel vs. Doug Phillips Lawsuit"

The Happy-in-His-Love-Helpmeets dove into the fray in defense of the reprehensible Wilson, and JA called them out on this. They then felt convicted to swing by JA's comment section and school the doing-it-wrong Christians. I'm happy to report they got short shrift. :clap:

Is Kelly really trying to claim that she never teaches birth control, women going to college, moving out of the house, and being independent are ungodly?

[MamaJunebug]

Kelly C getting PWNED at SSB!

Me likey.

I wouldn't have posted this except she got on my next-to-last nerve with her statement that she had examined a Scripture passage "through every lens", thus besting every trained doctoral theologian I've ever heard of, and then did away with my last and final nerve with this:

"And you’re right. I don’t know what it’s like, at all, to suffer spiritual abuse. The instructions God gives us from Scripture doesn’t allow for that, if we are obeying Him."

Can my molars be ground any shorter? It is not our obedience that magically engages Scripture to protect us from sin. Scripture exists on this earth to tell of the perfect obedience of Jesus Of Nazareth on our behalf, so that we may live this life in joy and service, and look forward to peace and joy in the next life.

Jesus perfectly obeyed Him (God the Father). And what did he get? Abuse spiritually, physically, economically, socially.

Kelly is a poster child for the wrong-headed corruption of Christianity and she doesn't see it. I'd try to follow Big Mama JB's advice and say "She's more to be pitied than scorned," but while her mouthy blogging and speaking continues to keep others believing - fruitlessly - in a heresy that kills, I can only muster up scorn. Stay tuned, though, BMJB always told me to pray for my enemies ... for my Savior's enemies ...

[congusto]

Is Kelly really trying to claim that she never teaches birth control, women going to college, moving out of the house, and being independent are ungodly?

Yep. Lying liars who lie.

[TrueRebel1]

Natalie's blog needs a larger audience. Her voice needs to be heard over the chorus of Yes Men saying that Doug Wilson "gets the gospel right". If the Good News is that pedophiles and violent criminals get cheap forgiveness and their sins covered up by their pastors at DW's church, yeah, then he "gets the gospel right". Good news, women & children! You are garbage, worthless, made for use & abuse. Good news, abusers! Just say some pretty words of 'repentance' and good ol' boy Doug Wilson will go to court and petition the judge to be lenient on your behalf.

natalierose-livewithpassion.blogspot.ca/2013/01/perpetuating-abuse-warningexplicit.html

Natalie has quite an audience thru her music career. You can find her various fb pages under "Natalie Rose" and "Natalie Greenfield Music". I'm not sure how much she shares about her past thru her music audience (many of which seem to be in her hometown, where Jamin and Wilson live) but she does have a following should she choose to share more.