Doug Phillips is a Tool and Vision Forum is Dead - Part 8

[DomWackTroll]

Ugh. Beall looks like "Pick me. Choose me. Love me." in that picture from the baby brown eyes article where she's hugging him.

Yeah, that's why I almost laughed out loud when our Recent Visitor insisted that Doug "had to fight" for Beall. It was probably more like he made himself so lofty and detached that she finally completely broke down and swore to give up anything-- even her own family-- if he would have her as his wife. That's what he wanted, and he knew how to get it.

[formergothardite]

It almost looks like he is trying to push her away in that picture.

[hoipolloi]

Do you have a link to this picture?

No link but it did go into the virtual filing cabinet on my desktop:

[MrsFoxx]

No link but it did go into the virtual filing cabinet on my desktop:

Thanks! Wow. Frumper hot mess, anyone?

[GenerationCedarchip]

Thanks! Wow. Frumper hot mess, anyone?

I can't tell you how many weddings I went to as a child that looked like that. Late 80s/early 90s meets "modesty" was not a good look.

I was a bridesmaid in a fundie wedding extravaganza that I hope never surfaces online. I'm wearing a blouse with huge puffed sleeves under an ankle length frumper that looks like it was sewn from a shower curtain. Oh, and white socks with little ankle ruffles. It is to die for.

[J'ean Skirt]

Chris Jeub comments on DPiaT

chrisjeub.com/doug-phillips-high-priest/#more-4910

[snuggles911]

I can't tell you how many weddings I went to as a child that looked like that. Late 80s/early 90s meets "modesty" was not a good look.

I was a bridesmaid in a fundie wedding extravaganza that I hope never surfaces online. I'm wearing a blouse with huge puffed sleeves under an ankle length frumper that looks like it was sewn from a shower curtain. Oh, and white socks with little ankle ruffles. It is to die for.

Your outfit sounds dreadful, but not as dreadful as the worst-ever 1990s fundie bridesmaid outfits my friend forced her wedding party to wear.

They were fuchsia satin frumpers with matching bloomers underneath them. The bloomers came to the ankle and were trimmed with lace. The bridesmaids wore lace pumps died to match the fuchsia frumper/bloomer combo along with hats that looked like old fashioned Easter bonnets.

They looked like something from a Mary Had a Little Lamb story book. I still shudder when I think of it.

[nausicaa]

Your outfit sounds dreadful, but not as dreadful as the worst-ever 1990s fundie bridesmaid outfits my friend forced her wedding party to wear.

They were fuchsia satin frumpers with matching bloomers underneath them. The bloomers came to the ankle and were trimmed with lace. The bridesmaids wore lace pumps died to match the fuchsia frumper/bloomer combo along with hats that looked like old fashioned Easter bonnets.

They looked like something from a Mary Had a Little Lamb story book. I still shudder when I think of it.

Pics or these monstrosities didn't happen!

[MrsFoxx]

Your outfit sounds dreadful, but not as dreadful as the worst-ever 1990s fundie bridesmaid outfits my friend forced her wedding party to wear.

They were fuchsia satin frumpers with matching bloomers underneath them. The bloomers came to the ankle and were trimmed with lace. The bridesmaids wore lace pumps died to match the fuchsia frumper/bloomer combo along with hats that looked like old fashioned Easter bonnets.

They looked like something from a Mary Had a Little Lamb story book. I still shudder when I think of it.

For the record, I have no room to talk in this arena. We attended a Reformed Baptist church in my early teen years (lots of fundy van o' kids, children not to speak unless spoken to, MANLY MEN in charge, that sort of thing.) The teens were cruel and cliquish, and my mom had sewed me a (frumper-lite) dress I loved and the first time I wore it, the pastor's oldest daughter cornered me with her friends and told me that I looked pregnant. My mom couldn't figure out why I never wore it again.

Lest you think poorly of my parents, we left that church when they denied me membership (I was 14) because I had been heard disagreeing with my father about something after church. Apparently I was defying my headship. Whoopsie. Good for me my parents thought that was bullshit.

[nausicaa]

In his pics with Beall, he almost never seems to be touching her, making eye contact with her, or even looking in her direction.

Years ago, when I first learned of DPIAR, I read one of his blog posts, in which he gushes about his "esposa." I instantly thought, "This is a guy who doesn't actually love his wife, but is trying really, really hard to convince people that he does." It was THAT fakey to me.

Maybe this is just a reflection of my own cynicism, but whenever married people/longtime couples are constantly gushing about how madly in love they are, always engaging in borderline inappropriate displays of affection, and using over the top endearments for one another ("love of my life" instead of "dear" or "honey") I always, always think the relationship is in trouble and they are just desperately trying to prove people otherwise, as well as maybe themselves. So far, history has proven me to be right for the most part.

[SamuraiKatz]

Chris Jeub comments on DPiaT

chrisjeub.com/doug-phillips-high-priest/#more-4910

Chris Jeub is still a douche....

[Jane_Goth]

For the record, I have no room to talk in this arena. We attended a Reformed Baptist church in my early teen years (lots of fundy van o' kids, children not to speak unless spoken to, MANLY MEN in charge, that sort of thing.) The teens were cruel and cliquish, and my mom had sewed me a (frumper-lite) dress I loved and the first time I wore it, the pastor's oldest daughter cornered me with her friends and told me that I looked pregnant. My mom couldn't figure out why I never wore it again.

Lest you think poorly of my parents, we left that church when they denied me membership (I was 14) because I had been heard disagreeing with my father about something after church. Apparently I was defying my headship. Whoopsie. Good for me my parents thought that was bullshit.

re the bolded, wow, just wow. Even though I've been reading about these hyper fundamentalists for several years the reality of their fuckwittery still takes my breath away. Well done to your parents for thinking that was bullshit.

[snuggles911]

Pics or these monstrosities didn't happen!

Ha ha ha. I wish I had a Smart phone or or digital camera back then. For that matter, if I had had a video cam I could have filmed the "bring your sin to the altar" events our church hosted. Our pastor would tell us that God had told him we were listening to worldly music or smoking cigarettes, looking at porn or drinking alcohol. Then he'd tell us to bring it to the next service so that we could "lay it on the altar" and ask for God's forgiveness.

Sure enough at the next service people would be bringing their Kiss CDs, Marlboro cigarettes and Playboy mags and weeping at the altar. I remember feeling guilty b/c I hid a few of my secular CDs under my bed instead of bringing them along with the others.

When I tell my kids these stories they just roll their eyes as if I'm making this stuff up. Having never stepped foot in a fundie church they can't imagine it.

[formergothardite]

I am reading the KISA thread again(and I can't help but wonder how he is handling this situation with Dougie. He clearly worshipped him) and he says that:

~Doug is an intellectual

~His historical knowledge is incredible :roll:

~Doug has had discussions with contrary scientists and historians at the top of their field and he is accurate to the smallest degree.

~The reason people look up to him is because he is so intelligent.

~KISA says Vision Forum is financially hanging on by a thread.

~When Doug has trouble raising money for one of his projects he Other projects he manages to convince families to start 'businesses' of design or photography to provide services, then he asks for favors. He's a compelling guy, and it gets him a long way This sounds shady as hell to me.

~Doug thinks at a very high and is very intellectual(he says this a lot)

~Doug is maybe naïve, misguided and living in a fantasy world.

~Doug is just so genuine.

~Doug is charismatic and really just wants to make the people around him happy.

~Doug is clueless when it comes to worldly sexual things and innocent as a little child.

~Doug says the most perverted things with double meanings that any of us could ever imagine, but he is so innocent that he just doesn't know what these things mean. :roll: :roll:

~When KISA pointed out the perverted things Doug was saying, Doug started treating him like he was a person who couldn't be trusted.

~KISA's girl crush used to be Lourdes.

~Doug would never allow any of his sons to join the military.

~Doug really loves women. Peter Bradrick doesn't.

~Doug is the real deal. (oh I so wish he would come back and tell us what he thinks now that it is clear Doug is far from the "real deal".)

~Doug and Beal are so in love, people "catch" them kissing a lot.

~Beall adores him which is proof he is wonderful because no mother would adore a man who is abusive or a bad parent.

~He is the best father EVER.

~There is enough people around Doug at all times that if he was doing anything inappropriate people would know and they would have to either be okay with it or they would say something.

And then there is this:

Out of all the crap and dogma and propaganda confusion that exists, there is one thing that is solid gold real out of the whole VF movement. The Phillips family is a tight knit family, and they love each other. Doug loves Beall passionately (to the point where people have walked in on them or caught a glimpse of them kissing and making oogly romance at each other) and he is a dramatic spoiler of his kids. Beall is too, in fact, he probably learned it from her. Even if you feel like other people's lives are damaged by the Phillips family's ministry, it's not because they're faking it. They are the real deal, and even when they're crabby and snarky and fighting in the backseat, the family has a spark of life and real, genuine love for each other.

KISA was writing this about Doug while Doug was masturbating in the face of his former nanny, which means that Westchamps claims that Doug was not this sort of person back when he knew him don't mean a lot. Doug is clearly able to fool people.

That is a hell of a long thread with 84 pages so I'm not going to read the whole thing.

[ShesCrafty]

I am reading the KISA thread again(and I can't help but wonder how he is handling this situation with Dougie. He clearly worshipped him) and he says that:

~Doug is an intellectual

~His historical knowledge is incredible :roll:

~Doug has had discussions with contrary scientists and historians at the top of their field and he is accurate to the smallest degree.

~The reason people look up to him is because he is so intelligent.

~KISA says Vision Forum is financially hanging on by a thread.

~When Doug has trouble raising money for one of his projects he Other projects he manages to convince families to start 'businesses' of design or photography to provide services, then he asks for favors. He's a compelling guy, and it gets him a long way This sounds shady as hell to me.

~Doug thinks at a very high and is very intellectual(he says this a lot)

~Doug is maybe naïve, misguided and living in a fantasy world.

~Doug is just so genuine.

~Doug is charismatic and really just wants to make the people around him happy.

~Doug is clueless when it comes to worldly sexual things and innocent as a little child.

~Doug says the most perverted things with double meanings that any of us could ever imagine, but he is so innocent that he just doesn't know what these things mean. :roll: :roll:

~When KISA pointed out the perverted things Doug was saying, Doug started treating him like he was a person who couldn't be trusted.

~KISA's girl crush used to be Lourdes.

~Doug would never allow any of his sons to join the military.

~Doug really loves women. Peter Bradrick doesn't.

~Doug is the real deal. (oh I so wish he would come back and tell us what he thinks now that it is clear Doug is far from the "real deal".)

~Doug and Beal are so in love, people "catch" them kissing a lot.

~Beall adores him which is proof he is wonderful because no mother would adore a man who is abusive or a bad parent.

~He is the best father EVER.

~There is enough people around Doug at all times that if he was doing anything inappropriate people would know and they would have to either be okay with it or they would say something.

And then there is this:

Out of all the crap and dogma and propaganda confusion that exists, there is one thing that is solid gold real out of the whole VF movement. The Phillips family is a tight knit family, and they love each other. Doug loves Beall passionately (to the point where people have walked in on them or caught a glimpse of them kissing and making oogly romance at each other) and he is a dramatic spoiler of his kids. Beall is too, in fact, he probably learned it from her. Even if you feel like other people's lives are damaged by the Phillips family's ministry, it's not because they're faking it. They are the real deal, and even when they're crabby and snarky and fighting in the backseat, the family has a spark of life and real, genuine love for each other.

KISA was writing this about Doug while Doug was masturbating in the face of his former nanny, which means that Westchamps claims that Doug was not this sort of person back when he knew him don't mean a lot. Doug is clearly able to fool people.

That is a hell of a long thread with 84 pages so I'm not going to read the whole thing.

I remember reading the KISA thread as it was happening and the fact that he believed Dougie was an intellectual just because he could memorize a bunch of historical facts always stuck with me. It just proved the lack of education the majority of these children are receiving and it made me...sad.

[hoipolloi]

I am reading the KISA thread again(and I can't help but wonder how he is handling this situation with Dougie. He clearly worshipped him) and he says that:

~Doug is an intellectual

~His historical knowledge is incredible :roll:

~Doug has had discussions with contrary scientists and historians at the top of their field and he is accurate to the smallest degree.

~The reason people look up to him is because he is so intelligent.

~KISA says Vision Forum is financially hanging on by a thread.

~When Doug has trouble raising money for one of his projects he Other projects he manages to convince families to start 'businesses' of design or photography to provide services, then he asks for favors. He's a compelling guy, and it gets him a long way This sounds shady as hell to me.

~Doug thinks at a very high and is very intellectual(he says this a lot)

~Doug is maybe naïve, misguided and living in a fantasy world.

~Doug is just so genuine.

~Doug is charismatic and really just wants to make the people around him happy.

~Doug is clueless when it comes to worldly sexual things and innocent as a little child.

~Doug says the most perverted things with double meanings that any of us could ever imagine, but he is so innocent that he just doesn't know what these things mean. :roll: :roll:

~When KISA pointed out the perverted things Doug was saying, Doug started treating him like he was a person who couldn't be trusted.

~KISA's girl crush used to be Lourdes.

~Doug would never allow any of his sons to join the military.

~Doug really loves women. Peter Bradrick doesn't.

~Doug is the real deal. (oh I so wish he would come back and tell us what he thinks now that it is clear Doug is far from the "real deal".)

~Doug and Beal are so in love, people "catch" them kissing a lot.

~Beall adores him which is proof he is wonderful because no mother would adore a man who is abusive or a bad parent.

~He is the best father EVER.

~There is enough people around Doug at all times that if he was doing anything inappropriate people would know and they would have to either be okay with it or they would say something.

And then there is this:

Out of all the crap and dogma and propaganda confusion that exists, there is one thing that is solid gold real out of the whole VF movement. The Phillips family is a tight knit family, and they love each other. Doug loves Beall passionately (to the point where people have walked in on them or caught a glimpse of them kissing and making oogly romance at each other) and he is a dramatic spoiler of his kids. Beall is too, in fact, he probably learned it from her. Even if you feel like other people's lives are damaged by the Phillips family's ministry, it's not because they're faking it. They are the real deal, and even when they're crabby and snarky and fighting in the backseat, the family has a spark of life and real, genuine love for each other.

KISA was writing this about Doug while Doug was masturbating in the face of his former nanny, which means that Westchamps claims that Doug was not this sort of person back when he knew him don't mean a lot. Doug is clearly able to fool people.

That is a hell of a long thread with 84 pages so I'm not going to read the whole thing.

Thank you for this public service.

For those who wish to read it for themselves, here's the link: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3942&hilit=KISA

[singsingsing]

I clearly remembered these three things about KISA:

-He hero worshiped Doug

-He had a crush on Lourdes

-He applied to be a VF intern but was rejected

I didn't remember the fact that when he pointed out to Doug that his statements could be construed as perverted, Doug started treating him as someone who couldn't be trusted... but taken with the three points I listed above, it kind of paints an interesting picture, doesn't it?

[ILoveJellybeans]

~Doug is clueless when it comes to worldly sexual things and innocent as a little child.

~Doug says the most perverted things with double meanings that any of us could ever imagine, but he is so innocent that he just doesn't know what these things mean. :roll: :roll:

I think Doug is far more aware of worldly sexual things than KISA thinks. I find it hard to believe that someone who has never watched porn and isn't around people who are discussing sexual things more than in the procreative sense would know that he can jack off onto someones face. The stuff he does is perverted, like some sort of power fetish where he likes the most degrading sex acts he can do to someone. He has a sick mind, but surely this sort of thing came from somewhere.

Suuuure he says perverted things with double meanings-most of his descriptions of Hazardous Journey events sound like he is organising a gay costumed orgy....but what double meaning can you get from what he did to Lourdes? He isn't that innocent. He is far from it, he is a complete pervert.

[debrand]

I've thought about KISA a lot lately and wondered how he has dealt with Doug's downfall.

Doug says the most perverted things with double meanings that any of us could ever imagine, but he is so innocent that he just doesn't know what these things mean. :roll: :roll:

~When KISA pointed out the perverted things Doug was saying, Doug started treating him like he was a person who couldn't be trusted.

~KISA's girl crush used to be Lourdes.

~Doug would never allow any of his sons to join the military.

~Doug really loves women. Peter Bradrick doesn't.

I wondered at the time, if Doug said perverted things to weed out the potential interns who were a bit too sharp and worldly for him to manipulate. I can't think of any other reason a supposedly godly pastor(or whatever the hell Doug's position was) would say dirty things to young men and then be shocked that they objected.

I still believe that some vulnerable young men were probably sexually abused also except I doubt that they will come forward.

[debrand]

Did someone post a link to the Huff Post article on Doug? If so, I apologize. I am still playing catch up on these threads.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/julie-ing ... f=religion

[lipstickgoalie]

I am embarrassed to admit this but... I miss the "intellectual". I am a horrible person.

[thoughtful]

I've thought about KISA a lot lately and wondered how he has dealt with Doug's downfall.

I wondered at the time, if Doug said perverted things to weed out the potential interns who were a bit too sharp and worldly for him to manipulate. I can't think of any other reason a supposedly godly pastor(or whatever the hell Doug's position was) would say dirty things to young men and then be shocked that they objected.

Makes sense to me.

And formergothardite, thank you for going back through all of that -- that must have been a chore!

[formergothardite]

I've thought about KISA a lot lately and wondered how he has dealt with Doug's downfall.

I wondered at the time, if Doug said perverted things to weed out the potential interns who were a bit too sharp and worldly for him to manipulate. I can't think of any other reason a supposedly godly pastor(or whatever the hell Doug's position was) would say dirty things to young men and then be shocked that they objected.

I still believe that some vulnerable young men were probably sexually abused also except I doubt that they will come forward.

ITA. Doug knew exactly what he was doing. I think he wanted to surround himself with sheltered, innocent young men who knew nothing of the world so that he could get away with more. Anyone who could recognize what Doug was doing and was brave enough to say something was cut from the inner circle and treated as if they were evil and ungodly for being able to see what Doug was doing.

[debrand]

A lot of the information in the lawsuit we've already guessed but it is interesting to see the case laid out. Most outsiders would view Vision Forum as a cult just from this description alone. I was worried that there wouldn't be enough explanation of how Vision Forum controls its members

Phillips espoused avoiding interaction with authorities at all costs. There is a pervasive sense within Phillips’s tight circle of people that they are engaged in a cosmic war, and that they avoid contact with the government and other outside groups that might hold them accountable or ask question

s.

and

As one component of the “total institution,†Douglas Phillips’s community had its own

church-court system. Disputes were brought before a board of all male elders in what

resembled a legal proceeding without any of the rights of the accused in secular courts. 4

and

For Ms. Torres, this system would force her to go up against Phillips—the most powerful man in the extended community—who is a trained attorney known for his skills at argument and intimidation. If Ms. Torres were to lose, she likely would be

excommunicated from her church and all other churches that are legitimate in the eyes of her community. Seeking advice from others would have been labeled as gossip and treated as a very serious sin

and

.

He made

himself her spiritual father. He was her authority figure with regard to where she lived, where she worked, where and how she worshipped, her education, her interpersonal relationships, her time and schedule, and even acted as her counselor. In other words, Phillips was the pastor of her church, her boss, her landlord, and the controller of all aspects of her life—obedience to Phillips was as obedience to God in this total institution.

[MrsFoxx]

Anyone here watch Game of Thrones? The scene this season where an emasculated Theon Greyjoy (now known as Reek) is forced to shave his torturer Ramsey Snow's face? Reminded me of Dougie's shave-o'-rama - all about power.